Saturday 14th & Sunday 15th October 2023

Post by **refitman** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 7:30 am

Morning all.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 10:00 am

Post by **refitman** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 10:17 am

It's something at least

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 10:28 am

Megan's recent posts are well worth a look, she has been there in Gaza, Chechnya ...

Full article -- https://archive.ph/H8LSL

Haaretz | Israel News
Analysis | Another Concept Implodes: Israel Can’t Be Managed by a Criminal Defendant

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 10:31 am

Good morning.

I, for one, didn't know about Blunt's pro-Palestinian views.

Don't know if anyone else reads Chris Dillow's blog, I recommend it to you not least for his description of current affairs programmes as poshcuntstalkshitshows.

ON REFLECTIVE EQUILIBRIUM

The Tories might have learned from that episode that they must occasionally test their beliefs against the evidence. But they haven't. Instead we saw at the party conference a further retreat from any notion of having to do so. There was talk of the need for change without asking why this was necessary after 13 years of Tory government, and utter gibberish about 15 minute cities and meat taxes.

It's easy to see why the Tories should avoid trying to reach a reflective equilibrium. For years, they've had no need to do so as the media has consistently accepted their fictions, from austerity to "£350m a week for the NHS". And what's more, if you've no ideas about reality, why not escape from it?

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 10:47 am

Yesterday I saw a tweet that in Melbourne some hospital labs are no longer allowed to test PCR swabs for covid but will do flu, RSV etc as usual .

All very Trumpian !

Today in UK professor Griffin is despairing (to put it mildly!) .

However if an NHS worker "inadvertently takes a test, and is positive" what the fuck happens to them ???

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 11:25 am

The Radio Silence on covid has been quite impressive !

Yesterday my chemist tested someone positive, but since June the result is no longer collected nationally .

A young computer whizz Guillaume Rozier produced the best info site on covid, very easy to use

https://covidtracker.fr/

Nothing posted since 31/3 but he was very coincidentally appointed a special advisor to M le Président on digitising the govt's activities , with emphasis on 'transparency' !

It's exactly a week since official stats on incidence have been published again , but the site is very clunky !

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 11:38 am

Free Speech in Melbourne !

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 11:51 am

refitman wrote: ↑Sat 14 Oct, 2023 10:00 am

I mean, *any* Labour MP?

If he had said front bencher it might at least be arguable.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 11:59 am

I've given up on Toady, but thanks to Tw**ter here's a nice bit --

Post by **refitman** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 1:10 pm

My sister is putting her name down for the British evacuation flights, just in case. Hopefully her boyfriend will also be able to join her, in the event, on a tourist visa. My parents told them this morning, they they are welcome to come stay anytime, and her bf's parents too.

My sister said that it's a little like the covid lockdowns at the moment, in Tel Aviv. People are being told to stay at home, Companies are arrange for people to be able to work from home. My sister is currently between jobs and the Gov have said she doesn't need to visit the Benefits Office in person, to re-sign-on for her unemployment.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 2:15 pm

gilsey wrote: ↑Sat 14 Oct, 2023 10:31 am Good morning.
I, for one, didn't know about Blunt's pro-Palestinian views.

As you likely already know, there was a time within living memory when Labour was mostly pro-Israel and the Tories pro-Arab (as the general term was then)

Blunt is very much a throwback to those days.

The very worst people in this debate (often openly calling for mass ethnic cleansing in Gaza, for instance) are - often "born again" - right wing Philosemites.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 3:15 pm

Good to hear refit's sister is OK !

On boring old covid news --

The best thing on which next vaxx to have ---

https://www.okdoomer.io/a-little-bit-of ... newsletter

No Novavax in France, and my local chemist was sure that he wouldn't have enough candidates for the French Sanofi to order a batch, so I took the Pfizer (anti-XBB version of course!) on Thursday ..

Better than nothing

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 8:41 pm

Starmer and Thornberry disgraced themselves, I'm disappointed with her, unsurprised with him .

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 8:48 pm

Yes this is all about Starmer, well done.

It may shock you, but UK opposition politicians don't have much power to actually change anything here.

Even the US can only do so much.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 8:53 pm

First minute or so, is Trump really deranged or just fooling around with everyones' brains ?

Well, it worked before !

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 9:02 pm

People talking about Biden going demented, I know which of him and Trump has sounded more in control of their faculties in the past week.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 14 Oct, 2023 10:28 pm

Exactly !

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 9:54 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sat 14 Oct, 2023 8:48 pm Yes this is all about Starmer, well done.

It may shock you, but UK opposition politicians don't have much power to actually change anything here.

Even the US can only do so much.

Well done you AK, if you can't see that a future PM should not be seen as a supporter of one militant religious minority in the UK ! Of course that was pretty obvious when candidates for the Labour leadership had to sign up to the BoD's Ten Pledges . I wondered what Clive Lewis would have done, but he had already been excluded by then .

Israel supporting Hamas since 1978 --

Mid 2000's GWB and Condi Rice indirectly of course armed Fatah (a horrible lot , but seen as THEIR preferred SOB's...) against Hamas , and lost , which made Hamas even stronger ...

and even in 2019 Bibi was still boasting about the divide and rule profit of supporting Hamas .

See my 9.28 on that yesterday .

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 12:01 pm

I mean, we can all basically agree on Israel's past failures (even if there might be disagreements on the details) but the reality is that no country that endured what they did last weekend (the biggest Jewish death toll in such a short period since WW2, as even someone like Owen Jones acknowledges) was simply going to stand by and do nothing. Its about as credible as those who urged similarly of the US after September 11th.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 12:26 pm

Your doing that hand-waving thing, over collective punishment and targeting of civilians again.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 1:14 pm

Well that is one view.

Another is that "hand-wringing" is what those who expect nations to do nothing in response to major atrocities indulge in.

If you want some optimism, most in Israel blame Netanyahu for this war. That might just lead to a greater acknowledgement that Israelis and Palestinians have to co-exist in the same bit of land, come its aftermath.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 1:44 pm

refitman wrote: ↑Sat 14 Oct, 2023 1:10 pm My sister is putting her name down for the British evacuation flights, just in case. Hopefully her boyfriend will also be able to join her, in the event, on a tourist visa. My parents told them this morning, they they are welcome to come stay anytime, and her bf's parents too.

My sister said that it's a little like the covid lockdowns at the moment, in Tel Aviv. People are being told to stay at home, Companies are arrange for people to be able to work from home. My sister is currently between jobs and the Gov have said she doesn't need to visit the Benefits Office in person, to re-sign-on for her unemployment.

Well, my sister and her bf will be arriving in Gatwick tomorrow. Can't fault the government for getting these flights processed quickly.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 2:54 pm

Jesus.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 4:02 pm

But the predictable response aside, most of diplomacy and foreign relations *is* about something other than straight yes/no answers.

And its not as if Corbyn and his supporters never used the "its complicated" gambit when it suited them.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 4:27 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sun 15 Oct, 2023 4:02 pm But the predictable response aside, most of diplomacy and foreign relations *is* about something other than straight yes/no answers.

And its not as if Corbyn and his supporters never used the "its complicated" gambit when it suited them.

I'm sorry, you really should be able to say that the collective punishment of 1,000,000 people, being forced out of their homes with no knowledge if they will ever be able to return - or if they will even have something to return to - is a bad thing. "I want to be a diplomat when I grow up" should not preclude you from saying that one side might be committing war crimes.

And let's be REALLY FUCKING CLEAR HERE - my sister lives in Tel Aviv and even given that she now has a route out of the country, I do not want Hamas getting anywhere near her.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 4:33 pm

Would that any frontbench British politician have the clarity of this woman

Post by **refitman** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 7:23 pm

Lonerbox has been doing really good commentary on the Israel/Gaza situation He's currently live

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 8:51 pm

If the exit polls are right, looks like Poland might be successfully resisting Orbanisation after all.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 10:06 pm

That's good news about your sister Refitman.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 10:10 pm

While some may think France being narrowly beaten by South Africa in the Rugby World Cup is the sporting story of the day they'd be mistaken. A drab 1-0 win for Spain in Norway means the mighty Scotland have qualified for Euro 2024 with two games to spare. Hoorah!

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 10:20 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sun 15 Oct, 2023 8:51 pm If the exit polls are right, looks like Poland might be successfully resisting Orbanisation after all.

If. Let's not get over-excited after what just happened in Slovakia.

Saying that if Tusk pulls this off it would be a remarkable achievement.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 10:25 pm

Congrats to Scotland, but the sporting story of the day surely is the rugby.
Who'd have predicted the only European team in the semis would be England.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 10:43 pm

That the two halves of the RWC knockouts were so staggeringly unbalanced doesn't really do so much for the credibility of the competition tbh.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 11:22 pm

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 11:27 pm

gilsey wrote: ↑Sun 15 Oct, 2023 10:25 pm Who'd have predicted the only European team in the semis would be England.

They were in the easiest group and Fiji are notoriously flaky, but you can only play what's in front of you and England played their best rugby of the tournament today.

Obviously conventional wisdom predicts they'll be absolutely crushed by South Africa but a misfiring Scotland side went toe to toe with SA for a half and held their own (before being completely destroyed in the second half) so they're not invulnerable. If I were being generous I'd give England maybe a 5% chance of getting to the final but you never know, it's still a chance, one which the other 6 nations teams would kill for.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Sun 15 Oct, 2023 11:55 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sun 15 Oct, 2023 10:43 pm That the two halves of the RWC knockouts were so staggeringly unbalanced doesn't really do so much for the credibility of the competition tbh.

The seedings and draw were based on the teams' performances at the previous World Cup, as has been the case at all previous World Cups as far as I'm aware. Funnily enough the loudest complaints seemed to be aimed at Wales being in a piss easy group before facing Argentina. Their coach Warren Gatland even went so far as to smugly say those complaining about his side's easy ride should have done better at the last World Cup before they were hilariously beaten by the weakest side in the Quarter finals.

He may have made an arse of himself but he had a point, the process was entirely fair and the same for everyone.

Whether basing seedings on how good a team was four years ago is wise idea or not is another matter.

Although I would point out that England football fans never seem to mind when they get to a semi-final after beating Bhutan or a team of moon insects.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 16 Oct, 2023 12:21 am

Sky'sGoneOut wrote: ↑Sun 15 Oct, 2023 11:27 pm
gilsey wrote: ↑Sun 15 Oct, 2023 10:25 pm Who'd have predicted the only European team in the semis would be England.
They were in the easiest group and Fiji are notoriously flaky, but you can only play what's in front of you and England played their best rugby of the tournament today.

Obviously conventional wisdom predicts they'll be absolutely crushed by South Africa but a misfiring Scotland side went toe to toe with SA for a half and held their own (before being completely destroyed in the second half) so they're not invulnerable. If I were being generous I'd give England maybe a 5% chance of getting to the final but you never know, it's still a chance, one which the other 6 nations teams would kill for.

I reckon we could have played better with Lawrence starting at centre, instead of Manu. And taking May off in the second half, for a Lawrence/Manu partnership was just mind boggling.

And I have no idea what the people choosing the MotM were smoking, but how it ended up with Faz, instead of Lawes, Itoje or Earl, I will never know.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 16 Oct, 2023 1:20 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote: ↑Sun 15 Oct, 2023 12:01 pm I mean, we can all basically agree on Israel's past failures (even if there might be disagreements on the details) but the reality is that no country that endured what they did last weekend (the biggest Jewish death toll in such a short period since WW2, as even someone like Owen Jones acknowledges) was simply going to stand by and do nothing. Its about as credible as those who urged similarly of the US after September 11th.

There's a lot of excuses being made about Israel reacting as it does due to 'generational trauma'. Of course the same could be said of the Palestinians but let's just stick with Israel.

First of all for a people who were essentially nomadic for centuries it's little wonder they held on to their myths but for the Jewish diaspora Israel was never important. The 'ten tribes' deported by the Assyrians didn't just disappear, they were relocated and integrated into Assyrian society as all empires do, in fact they were so happy in Babylon that most of the Talmud was written there a thousand years after Cyrus the Great defeated the Assyrians and let the Jews return to Israel. Most of them decided not to return to their provincial shithole home by all accounts. While those who did treated those who'd remained there as subhuman according to the bible.

Next we have the sorry tale of them having their arses kicked by the Babylonians then the Roman's finally got sick of them and besieged them in Jerusalem while those inside the city walls vied for political power by stabbing their opponents with daggers called sicae, the worlds first political assassins (on record). According to Josephus the Romans under Titus kept trying to be reasonable but the Jewish zealots weren't having it so the inevitable happened.

As such Judea and its predecessors were no different from any other city states or regions of the ancient world that are long forgotten. In fact they were on the edge of a hub of civilisation that existed between the Tigris and Euphrates for more than half of our recorded history.

Just think about that. Sumerian Eridu was founded about 5000 bc. It existed for more than twice as long as our current dating system before the Euphrates silted up.

And these people's kids went to school and did maths and Sumerian and studied the epic of Gilgamesh.

One of the best things about writing on clay tablets is if somebody burns the school all the clay tablets get fired and preserved.

My point being thank fuck I'm not in the Labour party or I suspect they'd be sending someone round to shut my face as I speak.

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 16 Oct, 2023 2:11 am

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 16 Oct, 2023 2:18 am