Saturday 27th & Sunday 28th December 2014

Post by **refitman** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:08 am

Morning all. Hope the weather's okay for everyone. I'm driving from Bristol to Sheffield today, so my fingers are crossed.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:13 am

Morning.

Thanks to all those who posted over Christmas. I kept offline for the duration.
Just read the last few days pf FTN and it made me smile seeing what you'd all been up to or eating/reading/watching.

Am at about the same pace as CitizenJA in reading the new Nye biog.
Wonder if anyone would want a political book club and talk/question about a chosen book every month or so ?

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:16 am

refitman wrote:Morning all. Hope the weather's okay for everyone. I'm driving from Bristol to Sheffield today, so my fingers are crossed.

Very bad round Sheffield. Take care.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:23 am

This is what passes for political satire these days ?

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/d ... t-45429952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:24 am

refitman wrote:Morning all. Hope the weather's okay for everyone. I'm driving from Bristol to Sheffield today, so my fingers are crossed.

Morning all.

Dan - To echo frightful_oik, please take care of the icy road conditions around Sheffield and South Yorkshire. The roads have frozen over and I can see a few cars struggling to get up the little hill that leads out of our estate. Even so you shouldn't have any real problems if you drive with care.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:34 am

yahyah wrote:This is what passes for political satire these days ?

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/d ... t-45429952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why do we even bother with that rag any more? (not you Yahyah - thanks for posting it, I think

).

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:36 am

daydreamer wrote:
yahyah wrote:This is what passes for political satire these days ?

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/d ... t-45429952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why do we even bother with that rag any more? (not you Yahyah - thanks for posting it, I think ).

I certainly wouldn't pay dosh for the paper copy for tripe like that.

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:37 am

So is Rupert planning to back UKIP, I wonder how much longer the anti establishment tag will last. I can see a coalition of Tories & Kippers on the horizon

: ScreenShot00156.jpg (192.73 KiB) Viewed 20177 times

: ScreenShot00159.jpg (90.35 KiB) Viewed 20177 times

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:39 am

Arggghh...my last post hit the 666 Rusbridger devil avatar. Apt really.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:39 am

yahyah wrote:
daydreamer wrote:
yahyah wrote:This is what passes for political satire these days ?

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/d ... t-45429952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why do we even bother with that rag any more? (not you Yahyah - thanks for posting it, I think ).

I certainly wouldn't pay dosh for the paper copy for tripe like that.

Quick post something else Yahyah!

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:41 am

Other important groundbreaking news in the Groan today

: ScreenShot00163.jpg (221.26 KiB) Viewed 20169 times

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:43 am

Toby Latimer wrote:So is Rupert planning to back UKIP, I wonder how much longer the anti establishment tag will last. I can see a coalition of Tories & Kippers on the horizon
ScreenShot00156.jpg

ScreenShot00159.jpg

(My bold)

I bloody well hope not! Don't be giving me nightmares now, Toby

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:46 am

daydreamer wrote:
refitman wrote:Morning all. Hope the weather's okay for everyone. I'm driving from Bristol to Sheffield today, so my fingers are crossed.
Morning all.

Dan - To echo frightful_oik, please take care of the icy road conditions around Sheffield and South Yorkshire. The roads have frozen over and I can see a few cars struggling to get up the little hill that leads out of our estate. Even so you shouldn't have any real problems if you drive with care.

Also depends on where in Sheffield you are headed. Sounds like the Pennines side of Sheffield got hit worst, some people saying they have almost 2 foot of snow, whereas on the Meadowhall side it's only about 2-3 inches but as daydreamer just said it has frozen on a lot of roads. I've just watched a neighbour sliding their car all over the place before they decided trying to drive was a bad idea. Main roads shouldn't be quite as bad though.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:46 am

But Janet Hulme-Oldroyd, who grows forced rhubarb at Oldroyd’s Farm in Carlton, says growing conditions are changing due to climate change and that is affecting yields.

She said: “Early varieties are effected by global warming more than any other as they grow in lower temperatures.”

“Last year yields on early varieties were down 25 per cent.

“This year it looks like being between 25-35 per cent. I blame the poor season on unfavourable growing conditions whilst the root lived outside.”

http://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/ ... -1-7020559

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:50 am

Yay, I've been promoted! No longer a mere backbencher

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 9:54 am

While I'm having a go, I might be getting oversensitive - but I find the use of the term Bloodbath In Scotland in relation to the latest polling quite awful, coming days after the bin lorry carnage in Glasgow it was very tactless to say the least.
My best buddy had a sister who I knew quite well, she was killed along with her husband (& three others) when a bus mounted the pavement in Skegness a decade ago, their father, who was just a few yards away heard a commotion & went over to help with his knowledge of first aid before any emergency services arrived - he didn't even know it was his daughter under the bus until he got down to see what he could do and recognised her clothing. It was ten years ago and the family are still devestated.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:15 am

Morning all.

I think you may have to all nurse me along through today with any good bits of news you can find. I went to bed last night thoroughly depressed - and more than a bit sickened - by the bloodbath in Scotland stuff with all its implications for England and Wales suffering under another Tory coalition - with either the Lib Dems or Ukip .... and the terrible outcomes that will have for just about everything I hold dear -

the remaining shreds of support for vulnerable, disabled, sick and poor people
our wildlife and environment - foxes will literally be shredded for their guffawing pleasure and badgers will face mass killing all over the country - fracking will be full steam ahead wherever they can
those in lower paid employment for which there will be no security, no regular reward and for those unlucky enough to need benefits as well ... the threat culture of sanctions and targets
those with no home - or finding it hard to hold on to their home because of the bedroom tax, rapacious landlords, get rich quick firms and so on - especially the children
a vanishing NHS ...
a country run entirely, and milked to death by Capita, Serco, G4S, Circle, A4e and the like.

Sorry folks - it fills me with horror when I think we might be about to get not just more of the same but far worse. As you can see I need cheering up. It was the combination of the dire Scotland articles and cybernat venom - with picture after picture of grinning Farage and hunts men that really got to me.

I found myself actually wishing Scotland had got its independence YES vote because at least that would have meant the SNP would have had far less interest in standing for as many national government seats in 2015 - and we might have got a Labour majority for a short while that could have sorted some of the worst stuff out as quickly as possible before another election.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:20 am

yahyah wrote:This is what passes for political satire these days ?

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/d ... t-45429952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is painful. Between that, John Crace and those awful Mrs Cameron's diaries that pop up now and again, the Guardian really is about as funny as an attack of piles these days. I don't know why they insist on trying to be funny, its clearly not their thing.

I note that guy wrote for The Thick of It, which I did like, but the way it's lionised these days as some kind of work of comedy genius just demonstrates how bad most political comedy has been for the last ten years.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:23 am

Rebecca, have a hug

I've actually been looking for good news stories this morning, as we've had nearly five years of sh*t from those tossers in government.

http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/new ... tmas-event

http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/new ... house-fire

The family are now in emergency accommodation in Tinker Lane, Hoyland Common, in a council bungalow that was originally going to be rented to an elderly woman, who stepped aside up when she heard of their plight.

The bloody EU - giving us money and creating jobs!

http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/new ... -1000-jobs

I'll try to find more for you. Also, maybe Anatoly will come along and put that poll into perspective or something.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:26 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all.

I think you may have to all nurse me along through today with any good bits of news you can find. I went to bed last night thoroughly depressed - and more than a bit sickened - by the bloodbath in Scotland stuff with all its implications for England and Wales suffering under another Tory coalition - with either the Lib Dems or Ukip .... and the terrible outcomes that will have for just about everything I hold dear -
the remaining shreds of support for vulnerable, disabled, sick and poor people
our wildlife and environment - foxes will literally be shredded for their guffawing pleasure and badgers will face mass killing all over the country - fracking will be full steam ahead wherever they can
those in lower paid employment for which there will be no security, no regular reward and for those unlucky enough to need benefits as well ... the threat culture of sanctions and targets
those with no home - or finding it hard to hold on to their home because of the bedroom tax, rapacious landlords, get rich quick firms and so on - especially the children
a vanishing NHS ...
a country run entirely, and milked to death by Capita, Serco, G4S, Circle, A4e and the like.

Sorry folks - it fills me with horror when I think we might be about to get not just more of the same but far worse. As you can see I need cheering up. It was the combination of the dire Scotland articles and cybernat venom - with picture after picture of grinning Farage and hunts men that really got to me.

I found myself actually wishing Scotland had got its independence YES vote because at least that would have meant the SNP would have had far less interest in standing for as many national government seats in 2015 - and we might have got a Labour majority for a short while that could have sorted some of the worst stuff out as quickly as possible before another election.

Morning all.

For all the pushing of UKIP in the MSM they're still unlikely to win more than a couple of seats. That's neither here nor there when it comes to tory attempts to form a coalition. The Scottish seats are going to be Labour or SNP. Neither of which are going to go into government with the Conservatives.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:27 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all.

I think you may have to all nurse me along through today with any good bits of news you can find. I went to bed last night thoroughly depressed - and more than a bit sickened - by the bloodbath in Scotland stuff with all its implications for England and Wales suffering under another Tory coalition - with either the Lib Dems or Ukip .... and the terrible outcomes that will have for just about everything I hold dear -
the remaining shreds of support for vulnerable, disabled, sick and poor people
our wildlife and environment - foxes will literally be shredded for their guffawing pleasure and badgers will face mass killing all over the country - fracking will be full steam ahead wherever they can
those in lower paid employment for which there will be no security, no regular reward and for those unlucky enough to need benefits as well ... the threat culture of sanctions and targets
those with no home - or finding it hard to hold on to their home because of the bedroom tax, rapacious landlords, get rich quick firms and so on - especially the children
a vanishing NHS ...
a country run entirely, and milked to death by Capita, Serco, G4S, Circle, A4e and the like.

Sorry folks - it fills me with horror when I think we might be about to get not just more of the same but far worse. As you can see I need cheering up. It was the combination of the dire Scotland articles and cybernat venom - with picture after picture of grinning Farage and hunts men that really got to me.

I found myself actually wishing Scotland had got its independence YES vote because at least that would have meant the SNP would have had far less interest in standing for as many national government seats in 2015 - and we might have got a Labour majority for a short while that could have sorted some of the worst stuff out as quickly as possible before another election.

Morning RR2. Sorry you're feeling low. If you want a laugh, DFH has another piece of whimsey over at the Torygraph

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:29 am

I wouldn't be surprised if Murdoch's papers (or at least the Sun) come out for UKIP, not becouse he thinks they have much of a chance, but becouse if he throws the full weight of his empire behind Cameron again, and he still loses, then that will finally be the end of the "Sun that won it" fantasy that Murdoch's been living on for the past 40 years. It should have been over last time when he failed to deliver a majority for the Tories, but Cameron limping through number 10 with Clegg disguised the utter faliure of his propaganda machine. If he comes out for UKIP, and they then have a significantly higher vote than last time (which is inevitable) then he can carry on pretending to himself that he and his trashy papers are still setting the agenda in British politics.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:30 am

StephenDolan wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all.

I think you may have to all nurse me along through today with any good bits of news you can find. I went to bed last night thoroughly depressed - and more than a bit sickened - by the bloodbath in Scotland stuff with all its implications for England and Wales suffering under another Tory coalition - with either the Lib Dems or Ukip .... and the terrible outcomes that will have for just about everything I hold dear -
the remaining shreds of support for vulnerable, disabled, sick and poor people
our wildlife and environment - foxes will literally be shredded for their guffawing pleasure and badgers will face mass killing all over the country - fracking will be full steam ahead wherever they can
those in lower paid employment for which there will be no security, no regular reward and for those unlucky enough to need benefits as well ... the threat culture of sanctions and targets
those with no home - or finding it hard to hold on to their home because of the bedroom tax, rapacious landlords, get rich quick firms and so on - especially the children
a vanishing NHS ...
a country run entirely, and milked to death by Capita, Serco, G4S, Circle, A4e and the like.

Sorry folks - it fills me with horror when I think we might be about to get not just more of the same but far worse. As you can see I need cheering up. It was the combination of the dire Scotland articles and cybernat venom - with picture after picture of grinning Farage and hunts men that really got to me.

I found myself actually wishing Scotland had got its independence YES vote because at least that would have meant the SNP would have had far less interest in standing for as many national government seats in 2015 - and we might have got a Labour majority for a short while that could have sorted some of the worst stuff out as quickly as possible before another election.
Morning all.

For all the pushing of UKIP in the MSM they're still unlikely to win more than a couple of seats. That's neither here nor there when it comes to tory attempts to form a coalition. The Scottish seats are going to be Labour or SNP. Neither of which are going to go into government with the Conservatives.

(My bold)

Are you sure Stephen? Wasn't it the SNP that helped put Thatcher in power by helping to bring down the Labour government (I may be wrong on this so please anyone feel free to correct me)?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:34 am

They did, and it set them right back for a decade. Which is why they aren't likely to do it now.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:36 am

More for Rebecca (and anyone else)

More than 17,000 needy children in South Yorkshire woke up today to discover Santa had been after all - thanks to YOU!

In another record-breaking year more toys and gifts than ever were donated to The Star-backed Hallam FM and Magic AM’s Cash For Kids Mission Christmas appeal.

Generous readers and radio listeners donated presents, from baby items to teenage gifts, to put smiles on the faces of 17,115 children.

Though it is depressing that social services have identified so many children in need, but I'm trying my best.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/local/you ... -1-7021530

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/video-170 ... -1-6974410

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:38 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:They did, and it set them right back for a decade. Which is why they aren't likely to do it now.

Is it likely to be a blood bath for Labour though? (apologies if you've already addressed this issue previously, but some on the forum are depressed at the prospect, me included).

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:42 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all.

I think you may have to all nurse me along through today with any good bits of news you can find. I went to bed last night thoroughly depressed - and more than a bit sickened - by the bloodbath in Scotland stuff with all its implications for England and Wales suffering under another Tory coalition - with either the Lib Dems or Ukip .... and the terrible outcomes that will have for just about everything I hold dear -
the remaining shreds of support for vulnerable, disabled, sick and poor people
our wildlife and environment - foxes will literally be shredded for their guffawing pleasure and badgers will face mass killing all over the country - fracking will be full steam ahead wherever they can
those in lower paid employment for which there will be no security, no regular reward and for those unlucky enough to need benefits as well ... the threat culture of sanctions and targets
those with no home - or finding it hard to hold on to their home because of the bedroom tax, rapacious landlords, get rich quick firms and so on - especially the children
a vanishing NHS ...
a country run entirely, and milked to death by Capita, Serco, G4S, Circle, A4e and the like.

Sorry folks - it fills me with horror when I think we might be about to get not just more of the same but far worse. As you can see I need cheering up. It was the combination of the dire Scotland articles and cybernat venom - with picture after picture of grinning Farage and hunts men that really got to me.

I found myself actually wishing Scotland had got its independence YES vote because at least that would have meant the SNP would have had far less interest in standing for as many national government seats in 2015 - and we might have got a Labour majority for a short while that could have sorted some of the worst stuff out as quickly as possible before another election.

Given that it was ICM who predicted an 8% lead for 'yes' in the referendum, I don't have too much confidence in their result for this poll.
And here's a photo of the Renfrewshire Hunt - three riders and not another soul in sight - cancelled due to fog.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/ ... -1-3644356

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:42 am

Apologies for the language

: Rowson.jpg (22.75 KiB) Viewed 20099 times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:42 am

StephenDolan wrote:
Morning all.

For all the pushing of UKIP in the MSM they're still unlikely to win more than a couple of seats. That's neither here nor there when it comes to tory attempts to form a coalition. The Scottish seats are going to be Labour or SNP. Neither of which are going to go into government with the Conservatives.

I would so like to believe you are right ... but if Labour don't do well enough in Scotland to get a working majority ... the Tories, Lib Dems and others aren't going to allow the SNP to suddenly vote on England Wales issues - like hunting, NHS Act repealing etc - when they have never done so before, surely? Would the SNP really overturn their long standing practice on not voting on England Wales only matters? And the Lib Dems will go into government with the Tories again - I have absolutely no doubt about that. And so will Farage and co.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:42 am

http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/new ... aising-man

http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/new ... p-homeless

http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/new ... n-barnsley

Meet Olaf, a rare white reindeer who was born right here in Barnsley - though his dad is from the seaside.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:44 am

Eric_WLothian wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all.

I think you may have to all nurse me along through today with any good bits of news you can find. I went to bed last night thoroughly depressed - and more than a bit sickened - by the bloodbath in Scotland stuff with all its implications for England and Wales suffering under another Tory coalition - with either the Lib Dems or Ukip .... and the terrible outcomes that will have for just about everything I hold dear -
the remaining shreds of support for vulnerable, disabled, sick and poor people
our wildlife and environment - foxes will literally be shredded for their guffawing pleasure and badgers will face mass killing all over the country - fracking will be full steam ahead wherever they can
those in lower paid employment for which there will be no security, no regular reward and for those unlucky enough to need benefits as well ... the threat culture of sanctions and targets
those with no home - or finding it hard to hold on to their home because of the bedroom tax, rapacious landlords, get rich quick firms and so on - especially the children
a vanishing NHS ...
a country run entirely, and milked to death by Capita, Serco, G4S, Circle, A4e and the like.

Sorry folks - it fills me with horror when I think we might be about to get not just more of the same but far worse. As you can see I need cheering up. It was the combination of the dire Scotland articles and cybernat venom - with picture after picture of grinning Farage and hunts men that really got to me.

I found myself actually wishing Scotland had got its independence YES vote because at least that would have meant the SNP would have had far less interest in standing for as many national government seats in 2015 - and we might have got a Labour majority for a short while that could have sorted some of the worst stuff out as quickly as possible before another election.
Given that it was ICM who predicted an 8% lead for 'yes' in the referendum, I don't have too much confidence in their result for this poll.
And here's a photo of the Renfrewshire Hunt - three riders and not another soul in sight - cancelled due to fog.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport ... urn false;

Hunting is a devolved issue in Scotland. They brought in their own Hunting Act in 2002 apparently ... so got no interest in sorting out the shit that the Tories, Ukip and Lib Dems have in mind for England and Wales.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:46 am

By the way daydreamer - loving the kitty with paper crown!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:48 am

danesclose wrote:Apologies for the language

Rowson.jpg

No apology required. The offensive word there is Farridge.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:50 am

ACCORDING to Bernard Ingham (The Yorkshire Post, December 10), those intending to vote Labour in the coming election are “thick... idiots” for whom the “penny (hasn’t yet) dropped” and by voting Labour they would be hurting the nation because Labour has a “dodgy (financial) record”.

It is as though those mature Labour politicians Atlee and Bevan never existed. Although Britain was in deep post-war debt they borrowed to build: houses, education, social welfare and the NHS. All of this now being trashed by mere Bullingdon bullyboys Cameron and Osborne:

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/deb ... -1-7022224

In a few places people try to put the record straight about the Tory fallacy of being good on economic issues.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:51 am

daydreamer wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:They did, and it set them right back for a decade. Which is why they aren't likely to do it now.
Is it likely to be a blood bath for Labour though? (apologies if you've already addressed this issue previously, but some on the forum are depressed at the prospect, me included).

I briefly talked about it last night. All the talk of "Labour being toast in Scotland" etc. are based on a handful of national polls with samples of (at most) a couple of thousand people so should be treated with caution on all sides; but needless to say it suits the MSM "get Ed" narrative and the cybernats to read more significance into them than they warrant. As I said before I'm not denying there is a problem but, until we get some proper regional polling, I'm minded to ignore the hyperbole.

@Danesclose, read Havisham's piece last night, maybe his shrillest one to date. I couldn't even be bothered to go BTL to wind up the frothers, most of them were telling him what a pratt he was so there was no point me joining in.

Morning all.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 10:52 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:By the way daydreamer - loving the kitty with paper crown!

Cheers

Though no doubt I'll change it soon.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 11:06 am

http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/new ... ternet-hit

He was abandoned by his mother and has been hand-reared by estate manager Tom Horsfield who laid him next to his oven and is still feeding him every four hours with goat formula milk.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 11:18 am

John Purves and his wife Patricia had been working in Sri Lanka for a year when the tsunami struck.

Since then they have been involved at every stage in the rescue, recovery and rebuilding programme over the past 10 years. Their work was only completed a year ago, when John retired from his ministry at St Andrew's Scots Kirk in Colombo.

Bringing their unique perspective on Sri Lanka's story of recovery, the couple discuss what they witnessed, the work they were involved in, and how they've seen Sri Lanka change in the decade since the tsunami.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30462055

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:12 pm

daydreamer wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all.

I think you may have to all nurse me along through today with any good bits of news you can find. I went to bed last night thoroughly depressed - and more than a bit sickened - by the bloodbath in Scotland stuff with all its implications for England and Wales suffering under another Tory coalition - with either the Lib Dems or Ukip .... and the terrible outcomes that will have for just about everything I hold dear -
the remaining shreds of support for vulnerable, disabled, sick and poor people
our wildlife and environment - foxes will literally be shredded for their guffawing pleasure and badgers will face mass killing all over the country - fracking will be full steam ahead wherever they can
those in lower paid employment for which there will be no security, no regular reward and for those unlucky enough to need benefits as well ... the threat culture of sanctions and targets
those with no home - or finding it hard to hold on to their home because of the bedroom tax, rapacious landlords, get rich quick firms and so on - especially the children
a vanishing NHS ...
a country run entirely, and milked to death by Capita, Serco, G4S, Circle, A4e and the like.

Sorry folks - it fills me with horror when I think we might be about to get not just more of the same but far worse. As you can see I need cheering up. It was the combination of the dire Scotland articles and cybernat venom - with picture after picture of grinning Farage and hunts men that really got to me.

I found myself actually wishing Scotland had got its independence YES vote because at least that would have meant the SNP would have had far less interest in standing for as many national government seats in 2015 - and we might have got a Labour majority for a short while that could have sorted some of the worst stuff out as quickly as possible before another election.
Morning all.

For all the pushing of UKIP in the MSM they're still unlikely to win more than a couple of seats. That's neither here nor there when it comes to tory attempts to form a coalition. The Scottish seats are going to be Labour or SNP. Neither of which are going to go into government with the Conservatives.
(My bold)

Are you sure Stephen? Wasn't it the SNP that helped put Thatcher in power by helping to bring down the Labour government (I may be wrong on this so please anyone feel free to correct me)?

Afternoon all,

Daydreamer, both NS and AS have said the SNP would not support a Tory gov but would probably support a Labour gov on a confidence and supply basis.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:16 pm

Here's another one Rebecca (and other nesters)

Could this mark the start of a beautiful friendship?

A baby elephant and two ostrich chicks in Kenya have been airlifted to safety by an animal rescue charity after they fell into trouble.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 10568.html

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:17 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
Morning all.

For all the pushing of UKIP in the MSM they're still unlikely to win more than a couple of seats. That's neither here nor there when it comes to tory attempts to form a coalition. The Scottish seats are going to be Labour or SNP. Neither of which are going to go into government with the Conservatives.
I would so like to believe you are right ... but if Labour don't do well enough in Scotland to get a working majority ... the Tories, Lib Dems and others aren't going to allow the SNP to suddenly vote on England Wales issues - like hunting, NHS Act repealing etc - when they have never done so before, surely? Would the SNP really overturn their long standing practice on not voting on England Wales only matters? And the Lib Dems will go into government with the Tories again - I have absolutely no doubt about that. And so will Farage and co.

AS was hinting recently that the SNP would vote on English matters if necessary. Given its their choice not to, I don't see what the Tories and co can do about it if the SNP decide to change their stance. Sure they can bang on about EVEL but, they are going to do that in the election campaign anyway. I honestly don't think its the biggest issue for most people.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:29 pm

As far as hunting is concerned, remember that Labour are almost 100% against (only a literal handful of exceptions) whereas the LibDem are split but probably leaning against (Clegg has said he is against lifting the ban IIRC) and there are a non-negligible number of Tory MPs - maybe a few dozen - who have said they do not want to see it re-legalised, including a few who voted against a ban originally. Its not hard to see some on the "populist" wing of UKIP taking a different view on the issue from their great leader, either.

The bit of propaganda in the Torygraph about only the eeeevil Jocks preventing a glorious restoration should thus be treated with considerable scepticism - it is far from certain an E/W vote to lift the ban would succeed even now, and the chances of it happening after the GE (assuming any sort of Labour advance at all) are close to zero. And over time, the number of Tory MPs unwilling to stir up this hornets nest can only increase and more and more will settle behind the status quo - they are called the Conservative party, after all

So not to worry too much about this, at least - the only way the ban will be lifted after the GE is a Tory landslide. And the chances of that diminish by the week

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:35 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:As far as hunting is concerned, remember that Labour are almost 100% against (only a literal handful of exceptions) whereas the LibDem are split but probably leaning against (Clegg has said he is against lifting the ban IIRC) and there are a non-negligible number of Tory MPs - maybe a few dozen - who have said they do not want to see it re-legalised, including a few who voted against a ban originally. Its not hard to see some on the "populist" wing of UKIP taking a different view on the issue from their great leader, either.

The bit of propaganda in the Torygraph about only the eeeevil Jocks preventing a glorious restoration should thus be treated with considerable scepticism - it is far from certain an E/W vote to lift the ban would succeed even now, and the chances of it happening after the GE (assuming any sort of Labour advance at all) are close to zero. And over time, the number of Tory MPs unwilling to stir up this hornets nest can only increase and more and more will settle behind the status quo - they are called the Conservative party, after all

So not to worry too much about this, at least - the only way the ban will be lifted after the GE is a Tory landslide. And the chances of that diminish by the week

Weren't there some rumblings about this previously during this parliament, and there were indeed some Tory MPs who were opposed or is my memory failing me on this one?

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:42 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:As far as hunting is concerned, remember that Labour are almost 100% against (only a literal handful of exceptions) whereas the LibDem are split but probably leaning against (Clegg has said he is against lifting the ban IIRC) and there are a non-negligible number of Tory MPs - maybe a few dozen - who have said they do not want to see it re-legalised, including a few who voted against a ban originally. Its not hard to see some on the "populist" wing of UKIP taking a different view on the issue from their great leader, either.

The bit of propaganda in the Torygraph about only the eeeevil Jocks preventing a glorious restoration should thus be treated with considerable scepticism - it is far from certain an E/W vote to lift the ban would succeed even now, and the chances of it happening after the GE (assuming any sort of Labour advance at all) are close to zero. And over time, the number of Tory MPs unwilling to stir up this hornets nest can only increase and more and more will settle behind the status quo - they are called the Conservative party, after all

So not to worry too much about this, at least - the only way the ban will be lifted after the GE is a Tory landslide. And the chances of that diminish by the week
Weren't there some rumblings about this previously during this parliament, and there were indeed some Tory MPs who were opposed or is my memory failing me on this one?

Yep - just found this from 2010 http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/dec/ ... g-ban-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:47 pm

Afternoon all.
I had an interesting time yesterday evening on Twitter. Was having a lovely discussion with Michael White and Ivan about people not learning from history, when a Kipper stuck his nose in and started on about emigration. I told him he was off topic and to butt out I didn't want to read his rubbish, then I said I'd changed my mind and to carry on, we needed a good laugh, and the more he put his message out there the more it would turn people off.

He didn't like that and tried to best me; said for an old lady I was being very nasty. Once upon a time I wouldn't say boo to goose, but having reached my dotage that's the point. Because I am old I don't suffer fools gladly. After a lot of insults, I told him I could keep it up all night so why didn't he piss off --- and he did. Whippersnapper

I'm not sure what Michael White thought. He'd just said I was far too nice to be a raging lefty.

.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:55 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Afternoon all.
I had an interesting time yesterday evening on Twitter. Was having a lovely discussion with Michael White and Ivan about people not learning from history, when a Kipper stuck his nose in and started on about emigration. I told him he was off topic and to butt out I didn't want to read his rubbish, then I said I'd changed my mind and to carry on, we needed a good laugh, and the more he put his message out there the more it would turn people off.

He didn't like that and tried to best me; said for an old lady I was being very nasty. Once upon a time I wouldn't say boo to goose, but having reached my dotage that's the point. Because I am old I don't suffer fools gladly. After a lot of insults, I told him I could keep it up all night so why didn't he piss off --- and he did. Whippersnapper

I'm not sure what Michael White thought. He'd just said I was far too nice to be a raging lefty.

.

*chuckle*

Excellent Ohso. A friend of mine is very concerned about immigration [ironic given she's Australian]. I have put her off the idea of even considering UKIP by pointing out they are in favour of fracking which she is vehemently opposed to. The subject of the EU and immigration raised its head again last Monday when I was pointing out the fact we have free movement of capital and she is fighting the wrong 'enemy'. I'm just about to send her a link to the article below.............

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... home-sites" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 12:56 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:As far as hunting is concerned, remember that Labour are almost 100% against (only a literal handful of exceptions) whereas the LibDem are split but probably leaning against (Clegg has said he is against lifting the ban IIRC) and there are a non-negligible number of Tory MPs - maybe a few dozen - who have said they do not want to see it re-legalised, including a few who voted against a ban originally. Its not hard to see some on the "populist" wing of UKIP taking a different view on the issue from their great leader, either.

The bit of propaganda in the Torygraph about only the eeeevil Jocks preventing a glorious restoration should thus be treated with considerable scepticism - it is far from certain an E/W vote to lift the ban would succeed even now, and the chances of it happening after the GE (assuming any sort of Labour advance at all) are close to zero. And over time, the number of Tory MPs unwilling to stir up this hornets nest can only increase and more and more will settle behind the status quo - they are called the Conservative party, after all

So not to worry too much about this, at least - the only way the ban will be lifted after the GE is a Tory landslide. And the chances of that diminish by the week
Weren't there some rumblings about this previously during this parliament, and there were indeed some Tory MPs who were opposed or is my memory failing me on this one?

They are called Blue Fox - about 24 of them - and they are also against the badger culls.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 1:06 pm

If Labour are battered in Scotland yet are still in a position to form a coalition, it means they've won in E&W. Incidentally Esther McVey is one of the Tories opposed to hunting.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 1:09 pm

frightful_oik wrote:If Labour are battered in Scotland yet are still in a position to form a coalition, it means they've won in E&W. Incidentally Esther McVey is one of the Tories opposed to hunting.

Well - even a stopped clock etc

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 27 Dec, 2014 1:15 pm

Daughter who lives in Florida has just rung. Her husband is away on a trip. She got up to let the dogs out in the morning, and as she passed their office saw alcohol bottles scattered around, a bloke sat in the desk chair with his willy in his hand, snoring his head off and with porn playing on her computer.

She crept out, called the cops five of them arrived and they took him into custody. They woke him up, then pepper sprayed him.

Three dogs that hadn't made a peep and a house full of guns [her husbands a right wing gun nut].

The silly cow had left a window open.

I'm so glad I live in England. It's not good these days, but not that bad.