Tuesday 24th October 2023

[refitman]

Morning all.

[RogerOThornhill]

Good morning.

Oh dear...rats trying to clamber back aboard a sinking ship to oust the captain.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Sunak might be best off having a confidence vote and winning it, always assuming he doesn't also mess that up.

[refitman]

Well, this isn't at all chilling

[frog222]

Apologies if you've seen this already, as it must of course have been all over the media /s

" Israel’s Haaretz newspaper on 20 October published an interview – only in its Hebrew edition – with a man called Tuval who lived in Kibbutz Be’eri, but who was away on 7 October. Tuval’s partner was however killed in the events.

Haaretz reports: “According to him [Tuval], only on Monday night and only after the commanders in the field made difficult decisions – including shelling houses with all their occupants inside in order to eliminate the terrorists along with the hostages – did the IDF [Israeli army] complete the takeover of the kibbutz. The price was terrible: at least 112 Be’eri people were killed. Others were kidnapped. Yesterday, 11 days after the massacre, the bodies of a mother and her son were discovered in one of the destroyed houses. It is believed that more bodies are still lying in the rubble.”

This testimony would seem to indicate that many Israeli captives were still alive on Monday, 9 October, Mondoweiss observes, a full two days after the events of Saturday, 7 October. "

https://electronicintifada.net/content/ ... says/38861

[AnatolyKasparov]

I would genuinely treat all such claims with great scepticism. Nor least because Hamas themselves have admitted killing several Israeli/other civilians.

(but then claimed it was a "mistake")

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Israel was Corbyn’s undoing, but could it be Starmer’s too? - Tim Stanley

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/1 ... -semitism/

I'm not even going to dignify this desperate bollocks with a quote.

Suffice it to say Tim thinks Labour backbenchers calling for a ceasefire are a threat to Starmer's leadership and makes a thinly veiled accusation that they're being antisemitic.

If so, Tim should take a look at the Yougov poll from a couple of days ago where 58% of people said there should be an immediate ceasefire while a whopping 3% said there should not. If he's right then antisemitism in this country is at a truly terrifying level. Fortunately he isn't.

What the polling we've seen in the UK actually shows is a sympathy with Israel and Palestine, almost in equal measure but with a slight 'lead' for the Israelis. But what it also shows, in no uncertain terms, is a huge majority against the bombing of Palestinian civilians.

So those backbench Labour MPs are much more in line with the mood of the British public than Tim in his little right wing bubble.

What's more interesting is the polling coming from the U.S, which again shows that even a majority of Republicans are in favour of a ceasefire and de-escalation*.

I can understand Biden and especially Starmer thinking they're walking a fine line politically in this situation but it seems to me that those on the right trying to weaponise it against them are tilting at windmills. Yes people have sympathy with Israel after what happened. Who wouldn't? But both here and in the U.S what they absolutely do not want to see is the continuing massacre of Palestinian men, women, and children.

Despite the Israeli's spending god knows how much money, time, and effort on trying to control the narrative online and off they've failed. In fact they've failed worse than the Russians because the Israeli's have to persuade Western audiences that massacring people is cool with nothing in return, whereas the Russians just bribe foreign government's with gas and oil and tell the North Koreans and Iranians that the West is bad.

Yes Israel is our ally, hence the recent support of our security services in ratifying their account of the hospital bombing, but it's not an ally so beloved that it can murder thousands of civilians without revulsion despite what Tim and the freaks around him might think.


*https://www.newsweek.com/new-poll-revea ... as-1836689

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Anyway my Brother is getting married to his long term partner on Friday (a splendid North Welsh girl who worked for Chester zoo until a work related injury revealed them to be arseholes, legal proceedings are ongoing). So I shan't be around for QT on Thursday I'm afraid.

[Sky'sGoneOut]