Friday 27th October 2023

[refitman]

Morning all.

[refitman]

[refitman]

He's such an unbelievable prick

[AnatolyKasparov]

Unlike most of his fellow defectors, almost nobody was sad to see Austin leave Labour - which really does tell its own story.

[refitman]

[AnatolyKasparov]

The official Labour line is that there should be "humanitarian pauses". At the end of the day, this doesn't differ much in practice from a formal "ceasefire" that isn't backed up by a longer term settlement - ie the likelihood that it would be broken before too long is pretty strong.

There is clearly stuff going on behind the scenes involving both the US and Arab nations, hopefully this will produce more solid ground for ending the war.

[refitman]

At some point, Labour are going to have to realise that Israel aren't the good guys

[AnatolyKasparov]

And how many are now saying they are "the good guys", exactly.

L*k* A*e*u*s* doesn't represent the entire Labour party, much though both he and some of the party's critics like to believe otherwise.

Lots of people instinctively backed Israel in the immediate aftermath of October 7th - this was a totally normal human reaction. Three weeks on, that support has become much more qualified outside a hard core of Zionist ideologues and neocons. I know this place loves to hate on Starmer, but there is a big difference between what he is saying now and a fortnight ago (even leaving aside that one disputed phrase in a single interview)

But its not just about Israel of course - maybe someone influential should tell Hamas in public "yes, a ceasefire - but only if you release the hostages".

Might that work?

[refitman]

I assume we'll all be tuning in?

[refitman]

And how many are now saying they are "the good guys", exactly.

L*k* A*e*u*s* doesn't represent the entire Labour party, much though both he and some of the party's critics like to believe otherwise.

Lots of people instinctively backed Israel in the immediate aftermath of October 7th - this was a totally normal human reaction. Three weeks on, that support has become much more qualified outside a hard core of Zionist ideologues and neocons. I know this place loves to hate on Starmer, but there is a big difference between what he is saying now and a fortnight ago (even leaving aside that one disputed phrase in a single interview)

But its not just about Israel of course - maybe someone influential should tell Hamas in public "yes, a ceasefire - but only if you release the hostages".

Might that work?

You seem to be glossing over the war crimes. No-one denies the right of Israel to protect itself, but Starmer, Nandy, Thornbury and other said it was okay for Israel to carry out collective punishment on Palestinians in Gaza, as a whole. And AFAIK, no-one in the Shadow Cabinet have yet said that this was wrong.

[refitman]

[refitman]

Jimberly Crobyns!

[refitman]

[AnatolyKasparov]

Well, what if it turns out they are no longer "rumours"?

Official propaganda from both sides in this conflict should be taken with a pinch of salt. An obvious statement, but one that gets overlooked all the time.

[refitman]

Well, what if it turns out they are no longer "rumours"?

Official propaganda from both sides in this conflict should be taken with a pinch of salt. An obvious statement, but one that gets overlooked all the time.

You might want to re-read the statement, regarding the hostages.

[refitman]

[refitman]

[refitman]

Remember when Twitter wasn't a far-right hellscape?