FlyTheNest

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 8:48 am**

Morning all.

An interesting (albeit short) piece on current polling. http://www1.politicalbetting.com/index. ... d-its-day/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I notice that Miliband and Labour are in a poll crisis again according to the Mail. Sigh.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 8:55 am**

'The survey for the thinktank Demos showed the top three policies that would make young people more likely to vote were guaranteed jobs for young people in long-term employment, reducing the cost of higher education, and raising the national minimum wage. '

Poll suggests 3m young voters undecided

http://gu.com/p/44f7j" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Can't imagine which party they're most likely to vote for based upon these issues

It must be like drinking a cold cup of sick for Wintour having to write that up.

The BBC says
'About 44% of 18 to 25-year-olds have yet to decide which party to back on 7 May, research by Populus, for left-leaning think tank Demos, suggested.'
Do Policy Exchange, Centre for Social Justice etc get described as right leaning? Demos is more aligned with Cameron 2010 than Miliband 2014 surely?

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 9:05 am**

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media ... 47518.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Presumably if OFCOM had lost the court case we wouldn't have heard about this at the time.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 9:33 am**

'Douglas Carswell, one of Ukip’s most senior figures, has called on the party to stop making “the mistake of blaming outsiders” for Britain’s problems and described disliking foreigners as “not merely offensive, but absurd”.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 47202.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hmm, Douglas, methinks you're preaching to the wrong choir.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 9:41 am**

Ofcom boss ‘surprised’ by informality between Murdoch and government
Ed Richards expresses concern over contact between executives of Murdoch’s firms and ministers during News Corp’s failed bid for BSkyB
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/d ... oncern-bid

Really? Why say this now - other than because you are leaving a highly paid job?

Morning all. Really hard frost outside for the first time this year. The cat flap froze shut during the night so I had caterwauling moggies waking me up at 3am and 4am and 5am .... personal butler service of door opening. Then three furry bodies taking up all the space on the bed as they decided it was the best place to be ...

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 9:45 am**

StephenDolan wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media ... 47518.html

Presumably if OFCOM had lost the court case we wouldn't have heard about this at the time.

Ah snap Stephen - I hadn't followed your link before posting mine. It makes me think how lightly Hunt, Cameron and co have got off from all this ... wish the public would remember how cosy cosy and rigged so much of the media coverage is ... but this seems quite distant now.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 9:46 am**

Morning all - thanks for starting us off today, Stephen.

Re. Carswell - I really have no idea why he moved to UKIP, unless it's purely for self-interest.
He had a 12,000-plus majority in Clacton as a Tory, and that hasn't shifted much as a UKIPPER.

I think, despite my dislike for many of his ideas, that he is actually a very intelligent man. A lot of the ideas he has come up with in his writing are now Tory policy, with the notable exceptions of his support for PR and his mission to "clean up politics" - and I think that's why he'll go nowhere in the Tory party.
What astonishes me is why he thinks UKIP is the right place for him. Judging by their behaviour in the EU, they are as corrupt with expenses there as the Tories are at Westminster; his latest outburst on foreigners is very anti-UKIP and simply doesn't fit with what most of the loonies in UKIP want.
Maybe he thinks he can tidy them up a bit and be their leader at some point. As far as I can see, he's the only UKIP figure with a fully functioning brain - and that's a problem because it could actually make UKIP credible.

Whatever - here we go again, with UKIP getting more bloody publicity.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 9:51 am**

I wonder if anyone has ever followed up where SPAD's who were martyred to save a minister's embarrassment / job ended up. I'd like to know where the bloke who took the fall for Hunt went ... and Teresa May's recent SPAD departure. Do we think they are left out in the cold or given a helping hand with finding a new position, after a friendly chat on their behalf at someone's club?

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 9:53 am**

@ephie

Farage probably shielded Carswell from the more grassroots Kipper type when he was courting him to jump ship. Now he'll be seeing them warts & all and maybe feels genuinely uncomfortable.

Found myself thinking about it yesterday, putting my tin foil hat on I wondered if it were actually a dastardly Tory plot, and that Carswell will noisily return to the fold just before May 2015, after publicly hammering UKIP and exposing some of their inner workings.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 9:58 am**

Douglas Carpetbaggerswell saw a partially formed party he could mould to his image and jumped, thinking he could defenestrate Garage with sunlight. Maybe he's seen the results of that survey which asked how UKIP members "felt about black people" and didn't like them.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 9:59 am**

yahyah wrote:@ephie

Farage probably shielded Carswell from the more grassroots Kipper type when he was courting him to jump ship. Now he'll be seeing them warts & all and maybe feels genuinely uncomfortable.

Found myself thinking about it yesterday, putting my tin foil hat on I wondered if it were actually a dastardly Tory plot, and that Carswell will noisily return to the fold just before May 2015, after publicly hammering UKIP and exposing some of their inner workings.

I think Carswell is regretting his jump - but he would look pretty silly to have jumped and then jump back with all the fanfare, all the stuff he said about Cameron, and Ukip, at the time and all the expense that has gone into fighting a by election for all parties concerned. Think the damage has already been done - pretty poor dastardly plot if it was. Presume the Tories have already selected someone as PPC for his seat for 2015? If he jumped back that would spark another unseemly fight over the chair ...

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:01 am**

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:@ephie

Farage probably shielded Carswell from the more grassroots Kipper type when he was courting him to jump ship. Now he'll be seeing them warts & all and maybe feels genuinely uncomfortable.

Found myself thinking about it yesterday, putting my tin foil hat on I wondered if it were actually a dastardly Tory plot, and that Carswell will noisily return to the fold just before May 2015, after publicly hammering UKIP and exposing some of their inner workings.
I think Carswell is regretting his jump - but he would look pretty silly to have jumped and then jump back with all the fanfare, all the stuff he said about Cameron, and Ukip, at the time and all the expense that has gone into fighting a by election for all parties concerned. Think the damage has already been done - pretty poor dastardly plot if it was. Presume the Tories have already selected someone as PPC for his seat for 2015? If he jumped back that would spark another unseemly fight over the chair ...

Would a Tory plot be anything other than pretty poor ?

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:05 am**

Carswell would easily have won Clacton next year as a Tory, so that doesn't explain what he did.

Really, really not liking Cameron is certainly a big part of it IMO.

UKIP are having a bit of turbulence at the moment granted, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have one or two "surprises" lined up for the new year. Once we are in 2015, nobody can seriously expect any defecting MP to resign their seat and force a byelection - with a GE so close. Just a thought......

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:08 am**

yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:@ephie

Farage probably shielded Carswell from the more grassroots Kipper type when he was courting him to jump ship. Now he'll be seeing them warts & all and maybe feels genuinely uncomfortable.

Found myself thinking about it yesterday, putting my tin foil hat on I wondered if it were actually a dastardly Tory plot, and that Carswell will noisily return to the fold just before May 2015, after publicly hammering UKIP and exposing some of their inner workings.
I think Carswell is regretting his jump - but he would look pretty silly to have jumped and then jump back with all the fanfare, all the stuff he said about Cameron, and Ukip, at the time and all the expense that has gone into fighting a by election for all parties concerned. Think the damage has already been done - pretty poor dastardly plot if it was. Presume the Tories have already selected someone as PPC for his seat for 2015? If he jumped back that would spark another unseemly fight over the chair ...

Would a Tory plot be anything other than pretty poor ?

Utter shitey shambles?

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:28 am**

re Carswell - it'll be very interesting to see what he signs up to when UKIP issue their manifesto, and how much he's managed to persuade them to tone down some of their more nutty ideas.

Could Fararge survive as leader outside the Commons if he fails to get elected and Carswell/Reckless get back in? Depends if they are the only two I would say - if there were more then Farage would find it difficult to stay on as leader.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:32 am**

RogerOThornhill wrote:re Carswell - it'll be very interesting to see what he signs up to when UKIP issue their manifesto, and how much he's managed to persuade them to tone down some of their more nutty ideas.

Could Fararge survive as leader outside the Commons if he fails to get elected and Carswell/Reckless get back in? Depends if they are the only two I would say - if there were more then Farage would find it difficult to stay on as leader.

Well there's a thought. I will ponder whether Farage would be able to hack not being leader ... be content to do or not do whatever he does or doesn't do in Europe at taxpayers expense while Carswell or whoever speaks on behalf of Ukip .... nah, can't see it, he'll still be speaking out whatever position he is in, it'll look like a rabble even if Carswell doesn't want it to.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:34 am**

Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 2m2 minutes ago
56% of 18-25 year olds said they would be more likely to vote next year if there were more working class MPs http://bbc.in/1Bj7wGZ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Simon Danczuk retweeted
James Rea ‏@JamesRea 46m46 minutes ago
An @LBC exclusive: Here's what @SimonDanczuk was talking to @Nigel_Farage about over a pint: http://www.lbc.co.uk/a-pint-with-farage ... gel-102515" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Go away - just go away.

I'm fast joining the group of people prepared to think Danczuk losing his seat might be a sacrifice worth making ...

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:37 am**

rebeccariots2 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:re Carswell - it'll be very interesting to see what he signs up to when UKIP issue their manifesto, and how much he's managed to persuade them to tone down some of their more nutty ideas.

Could Fararge survive as leader outside the Commons if he fails to get elected and Carswell/Reckless get back in? Depends if they are the only two I would say - if there were more then Farage would find it difficult to stay on as leader.
Well there's a thought. I will ponder whether Farage would be able to hack not being leader ... be content to do or not do whatever he does or doesn't do in Europe at taxpayers expense while Carswell or whoever speaks on behalf of Ukip .... nah, can't see it, he'll still be speaking out whatever position he is in, it'll look like a rabble even if Carswell doesn't want it to.

Farage is UKIP, the Greens show that your leader doesn't have to be an MP. Since UKIP will get five seats max I don't see this as an issue.

Incidentally Greece looks messy, the inside track suggests they are heading for snap elections which the EU settlement rejectionists may actually win.

In which case stand by for an interesting 6 months in the Euro zone.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 10:38 am**

GENERAL ELECTION PREDICTIONS 12: BUCKINGHAMSHIRE
http://iaindale.com/posts/2014/12/29/ge ... nghamshire

He has a narrow Labour gain in Milton Keynes South.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:03 am**

rebeccariots2 wrote:I wonder if anyone has ever followed up where SPAD's who were martyred to save a minister's embarrassment / job ended up. I'd like to know where the bloke who took the fall for Hunt went ... and Teresa May's recent SPAD departure. Do we think they are left out in the cold or given a helping hand with finding a new position, after a friendly chat on their behalf at someone's club?

Adam Smith, Rhyming Slang's ex-SPAD, is now Head of External Affairs at Paddy Power. According to his LinkedIn profile he was out of a job for about 18 months but I rather suspect he was well looked after, if only to stop him making embarrassing comments post-Leveson.

Morning all. Another hatchet job on Miliband in the Torygraph, talking about his incoherent "rag-bag set of policies"; progress of a sort I guess, as at least they are finally shifting from the "Labour have no policies" rgetoric, which was sounding increasingly tired.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... et-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:08 am**

TechnicalEphemera wrote: Incidentally Greece looks messy, the inside track suggests they are heading for snap elections which the EU settlement rejectionists may actually win.

In which case stand by for an interesting 6 months in the Euro zone.

Seems that the Greek Parliament has just rejected the appointment of the nominated President and that Parliament will definately be dissolved and a new election will take place in March.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30623421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Greek MPs' vote triggers snap poll
Breaking news
Greek MPs have rejected the presidential candidate nominated by Prime Minister Antonis Samaras, triggering a snap general election.

Good morning

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:20 am**

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I wonder if anyone has ever followed up where SPAD's who were martyred to save a minister's embarrassment / job ended up. I'd like to know where the bloke who took the fall for Hunt went ... and Teresa May's recent SPAD departure. Do we think they are left out in the cold or given a helping hand with finding a new position, after a friendly chat on their behalf at someone's club?
Adam Smith, Rhyming Slang's ex-SPAD, is now Head of External Affairs at Paddy Power. According to his LinkedIn profile he was out of a job for about 18 months but I rather suspect he was well looked after, if only to stop him making embarrassing comments post-Leveson.

Morning all. Another hatchet job on Miliband in the Torygraph, talking about his incoherent "rag-bag set of policies"; progress of a sort I guess, as at least they are finally shifting from the "Labour have no policies" rgetoric, which was sounding increasingly tired.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... et-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jason Cowley again...how very unsurprising - he penned a very anti-Ed article in the Mail the other day.

What exactly does he think this achieves?

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:24 am**

TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Morning all. Another hatchet job on Miliband in the Torygraph, talking about his incoherent "rag-bag set of policies"; progress of a sort I guess, as at least they are finally shifting from the "Labour have no policies" rgetoric, which was sounding increasingly tired.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... et-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Morning. Whole of the Telegraph today seems to be an anti-Miliband rant. There's the "cartoon" (Bell & Rowson have nothing to fear), the "Ed Miliband & his awkward leadership gaffes" slideshow at the top of the article TGS referenced plus another referenced article "Labour's crucial ethnic minority vote set to collapse", which, as the Newest point BTL makes clear, refers to the drop in Labour support compared with 1997

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... lapse.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:29 am**

danesclose wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Morning all. Another hatchet job on Miliband in the Torygraph, talking about his incoherent "rag-bag set of policies"; progress of a sort I guess, as at least they are finally shifting from the "Labour have no policies" rgetoric, which was sounding increasingly tired.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... et-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Morning. Whole of the Telegraph today seems to be an anti-Miliband rant. There's the "cartoon" (Bell & Rowson have nothing to fear), the "Ed Miliband & his awkward leadership gaffes" slideshow at the top of the article TGS referenced plus another referenced article "Labour's crucial ethnic minority vote set to collapse", which, as the Newest point BTL makes clear, refers to the drop in Labour support compared with 1997

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... lapse.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmmm .... wonder if CCHQ have woken up to and been stung by realisation that Labour did have a PR grid prepared for dozy old Christmas and New Year ... as was pointed out yesterday ... and have been using that 'quiet time' quite effectively. Meanwhile I suspect many Tory MPs are off on holidays somewhere ... or in their second homes.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:30 am**

RogerOThornhill wrote:Jason Cowley again...how very unsurprising - he penned a very anti-Ed article in the Mail the other day.

What exactly does he think this achieves?

Pays his mortgage, which is probably his main concern because truth certainly isn't.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:33 am**

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

Morning all. Another hatchet job on Miliband in the Torygraph, talking about his incoherent "rag-bag set of policies"; progress of a sort I guess, as at least they are finally shifting from the "Labour have no policies" rgetoric, which was sounding increasingly tired.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... et-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh I don't know, I thought this bit was quite an interesting observation:

Indeed, throughout Europe established parties of the left are in crisis or being out-flanked by radical insurgents and nationalists. In Sweden the Social Democrat-led coalition collapsed after just two months after its budget was voted down by the anti-immigrant Sweden Democrats

It raises questions about the rise of the likes of Ukip. Is it a natural phenomenon or an active tactic of the right to split the left and prevent poor and working class people coming together and overthrowing the current neoliberal status quo?

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:37 am**

There's another Danczuk/Farage article in the Telegraph today. Not online yet but usual attention-seeking rubbish.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:41 am**

Re. Greece - interesting times we live in, as the old Chinese curse goes.....

Article in the G about this says there should be an election within a few weeks. I wonder how the Troika will deal with this?
I can see trouble ahead.....

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:46 am**

Before UKIP and other nationalist parties in Europe we had the transformation of the Social Democratic parties into centre-right parties. All at more or less the same time. All adopting more or less the same right-wing economic outlook. Was that because the right's logic was so powerful that it couldn't be resisted? Or because powerful pressure was put on the leadership of those parties to be 'reasonable'? Perhaps the weaker individuals were suborned in some way. I don't know. But that's what happened and is still happening now. See Hollande in France - elected to bring about 'change' and implementing Sarkozy's economic policies and the absurd aims of the Stability pact.

An old Marxist might interject that our parties, having shrugged of any real organic connection with the people if they ever had any, are more or less representative of splits in bourgeois opinion and reflect varying strategic struggles within the ruling class. And that the crisis of 07/08 and since has thrown them into confusion about which is the best medium term strategy to keep us and them in our respective places. And that may be why we see such ideological slipperiness and political rootlessness. As well as such floundering cluelessness in some quarters.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 11:58 am**

mikems wrote:Before UKIP and other nationalist parties in Europe we had the transformation of the Social Democratic parties into centre-right parties. All at more or less the same time. All adopting more or less the same right-wing economic outlook. Was that because the right's logic was so powerful that it couldn't be resisted? Or because powerful pressure was put on the leadership of those parties to be 'reasonable'? Perhaps the weaker individuals were suborned in some way. I don't know. But that's what happened and is still happening now. See Hollande in France - elected to bring about 'change' and implementing Sarkozy's economic policies and the absurd aims of the Stability pact.

An old Marxist might interject that our parties, having shrugged of any real organic connection with the people if they ever had any, are more or less representative of splits in bourgeois opinion and reflect varying strategic struggles within the ruling class. And that the crisis of 07/08 and since has thrown them into confusion about which is the best medium term strategy to keep us and them in our respective places. And that may be why we see such ideological slipperiness and political rootlessness. As well as such floundering cluelessness in some quarters.

I think another view of this is that the reality of global capital, and the interconnected nature of the world fundamentally limits what governments can do. Hollande didn't go into government seeking to implement Sarkosy's policies he was forced by the strictures of the modern world to do so.

This is one reason why Miliband is very reluctant to make big promises. He is very aware that he will be constrained in office.

The rise of the right wing, blame the Jews (sorry EU migrants my bad) reflects a breakdown in politics and a lashing out of those who have lost out. These movements are always led by nasty little dictators who seek to end democracy and rule by force at the first opportunity.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 12:03 pm**

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:re Carswell - it'll be very interesting to see what he signs up to when UKIP issue their manifesto, and how much he's managed to persuade them to tone down some of their more nutty ideas.

Could Fararge survive as leader outside the Commons if he fails to get elected and Carswell/Reckless get back in? Depends if they are the only two I would say - if there were more then Farage would find it difficult to stay on as leader.
Well there's a thought. I will ponder whether Farage would be able to hack not being leader ... be content to do or not do whatever he does or doesn't do in Europe at taxpayers expense while Carswell or whoever speaks on behalf of Ukip .... nah, can't see it, he'll still be speaking out whatever position he is in, it'll look like a rabble even if Carswell doesn't want it to.
Farage is UKIP, the Greens show that your leader doesn't have to be an MP. Since UKIP will get five seats max I don't see this as an issue.

Incidentally Greece looks messy, the inside track suggests they are heading for snap elections which the EU settlement rejectionists may actually win.

In which case stand by for an interesting 6 months in the Euro zone.

He did promise to resign as leader if Labour win the election on a non referendum manifesto and UKIP fail to get any MPs elected. We can all live in hope [near Peterborough] I guess.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... l-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh and afternoon all.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 12:26 pm**

TE

I think another view of this is that the reality of global capital, and the interconnected nature of the world fundamentally limits what governments can do. Hollande didn't go into government seeking to implement Sarkosy's policies he was forced by the strictures of the modern world to do so.

Yes, that is a perfectly good explanation of what binds Hollande's hands, but freedom for capital is not an irreversible fact of nature. It is a destabilising factor for the world economy. This was one of the lessons of the thirties and forties. Footloose capital undermines societies. Yet this lesson, as well as the rise of the political far-right, has been deliberately ignored.

The world has always been interconnected, but it is a political decision about how to go about it. Allowing capital to rule was a mistake that needs to be rectified. The 'freedom' to move capital about is not a requirement for global trade. We need international agreements covering trade that reverse the dominance of private capital and revert to more national control over capital movements so that planned investment (not least to prevent the climate crisis) can happen.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 12:47 pm**

Afternoon all. Damn cold here. Brass monkey weather.

I had an interesting interaction yesterday evening on Twitter. Offended one bloke and he blocked me.

It was a comment by him about one of the Asian countries executing crooked bankers.

I said brutal, but it might lead the rest to be more honest with that threat hanging over their heads.
Oh my goodness he was offended. Called me a heartless vicious lefty.
I replied that I didn't say that's what should be done, but it was an interesting what if. I'd be happy enough if they got jail time, but they don't even get that over here.
I pointed out it wasn't just a bunch of blokes overstepping the line. What about all the hardship, despair and even deaths their crookedness has caused?

I was awake for ages trying to think how to curb them.

If one crooked scheme is blocked they come up with another.

They don't fear the law. Have no sense of right or wrong, or conscience.

The threat of jail isn't doing it and should they be sentenced the amount of time they would serve is paltry.

Rehabilitation?

Appealing to their conscience?

I lay awake for ages and as I consider myself strongly anti death penalty was disturbed because the longer I thought about it the more shooting them appealed.

What do you do to curb them? Any ideas?

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 12:55 pm**

This is an interesting and encouraging article on Labour's approach to TTIP.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... trust-ttip" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apologies if already posted, but has some relevance to the above exchange.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 12:59 pm**

I posted up the story last night about the Rose report into NHS management but saw a new charge against Burnham which I refuted.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... t-45479807

bobliv
29 December 2014 12:33am

Recommend
3
And only wanted good news for that time and refused to give evidence publically to the Francis Enquirey or are you Burnham and I claim my £5.

Seems to work in the NHS but such a liar. So far he hasn't been back...and won't. Never explain, never apologise.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 1:07 pm**

danesclose wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Morning all. Another hatchet job on Miliband in the Torygraph, talking about his incoherent "rag-bag set of policies"; progress of a sort I guess, as at least they are finally shifting from the "Labour have no policies" rgetoric, which was sounding increasingly tired.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... et-it.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Morning. Whole of the Telegraph today seems to be an anti-Miliband rant. There's the "cartoon" (Bell & Rowson have nothing to fear), the "Ed Miliband & his awkward leadership gaffes" slideshow at the top of the article TGS referenced plus another referenced article "Labour's crucial ethnic minority vote set to collapse", which, as the Newest point BTL makes clear, refers to the drop in Labour support compared with 1997

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... lapse.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm delighted to know Ed Miliband, a fine leader I've come to respect the more I hear & read from him, has got up the nose of some powers-that-be. Let's rock.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 1:09 pm**

Spam alert in the Greetings section

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 1:31 pm**

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Spam alert in the Greetings section

Ta, sorted.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 1:35 pm**

It seems that people are voting for Farage, although this time it's for Rear (read Arse) of the Year.

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/p ... ekmCtwVlql" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 1:56 pm**

I don't know what they've put in the water in Machynlleth but George Monbiot has Russell Brand as his Hero of 2014, and thinks he's the best thing to have happened to the left in years.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 2:08 pm**

yahyah wrote:I don't know what they've put in the water in Machynlleth but George Monbiot has Russell Brand as his Hero of 2014, and thinks he's the best thing to have happened to the left in years.

Unbelievable, if we tweet George can we send him something like.

How is Brand an asset for the left? He encourages people not to vote, a program for surrender to their Tory overlords.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 2:16 pm**

Some days the old brain box refuses to come up with the right expression.

What I failed to spit out on my post above, was moral dilemma. I'm finding it very uncomfortable.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 2:27 pm**

ohsocynical wrote:Some days the old brain box refuses to come up with the right expression.

What I failed to spit out on my post above, was moral dilemma. I'm finding it very uncomfortable.

I read your post above and was stumped.
I would have come to the same conclusion as you, if that's any consolation

Thinking about it again, I think penury is the better answer, arrest, trial and if guilty, asset stripped and licence to practice removed. After a term in jail they are free to go - with nothing, absolutely nothing, of their former glory left.
They leave jail with no home, no money and are forced to live in the same conditions they put others into, with no chance of returning to their former occupation or glory.
Is that any good ?

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 2:44 pm**

ohsocynical wrote:Some days the old brain box refuses to come up with the right expression.

What I failed to spit out on my post above, was moral dilemma. I'm finding it very uncomfortable.

I got that OhSo - and I'm in the same place.

I absolutely DO NOT believe in violence, capital punishment, etc. and I absolutely DO believe that redemption is possible.

But - if certain people in power right now were in front of me, and I had a loaded gun, would I shoot? Yes, probably, such is my hatred for what some of them have done. If only to wound.

I don't think it's hyperbole to call some of these people evil. As Hannah Arendt said when speaking of Eichmann and others, that the people who committed atrocities were "terribly and terrifyingly normal".

Obviously, I do not equate what someone like IDS (for example) is doing with the Holocaust - but I've said before and I'll say again that the thinking and the propaganda behind a lot of what this government is doing is not that dissimilar to how the Nazis started - long before people realised what they were doing. I daresay some of those responsible didn't realise where they were headed themselves.

We are seeing the rise of corporatism, accompanied by divide-and-rule politics, all ably assisted by a compliant and in some cases corrupt media. We are seeing, across Europe, the inevitable response to austerity policies - more support for right wing ideology with the usual blaming and hatred that goes with it.

I'm a pretty easy-going person; I like to think I'm tolerant and open-minded. I can honestly say that until recently I have never really hated anyone - but seeing what's happening to many people in this country and elsewhere I really do hate those behind it all.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 2:49 pm**

AngryAsWell wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Some days the old brain box refuses to come up with the right expression.

What I failed to spit out on my post above, was moral dilemma. I'm finding it very uncomfortable.
I read your post above and was stumped.
I would have come to the same conclusion as you, if that's any consolation
Thinking about it again, I think penury is the better answer, arrest, trial and if guilty, asset stripped and licence to practice removed. After a term in jail they are free to go - with nothing, absolutely nothing, of their former glory left.
They leave jail with no home, no money and are forced to live in the same conditions they put others into, with no chance of returning to their former occupation or glory.
Is that any good ?

Thanks. It helps a bit. But a lot of them come from monied families...Penury to them wouldn't be the same as it might be for one of us. And how do you ensure they never again have money?
Read some time ago, that a lot of city workers get in deep deep debt with payday lenders, but more often than not their families ended up bailing them out.

Puzzling over it kept me awake last night and it was the first thing I thought of when I woke.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 2:55 pm**

ohsocynical wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Some days the old brain box refuses to come up with the right expression.

What I failed to spit out on my post above, was moral dilemma. I'm finding it very uncomfortable.
I read your post above and was stumped.
I would have come to the same conclusion as you, if that's any consolation
Thinking about it again, I think penury is the better answer, arrest, trial and if guilty, asset stripped and licence to practice removed. After a term in jail they are free to go - with nothing, absolutely nothing, of their former glory left.
They leave jail with no home, no money and are forced to live in the same conditions they put others into, with no chance of returning to their former occupation or glory.
Is that any good ?
Thanks. It helps a bit. But a lot of them come from monied families...Penury to them wouldn't be the same as it might be for one of us. And how do you ensure they never again have money?
Read some time ago, that a lot of city workers get in deep deep debt with payday lenders, but more often than not their families ended up bailing them out.

Puzzling over it kept me awake last night and it was the first thing I thought of when I woke.

Hummm
Becoming quite dictatorial now. The ideas running though my mind to combat that would do North Korea proud

Sigh, it is, as you say, a moral dilemma.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 3:04 pm**

ephemerid wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Some days the old brain box refuses to come up with the right expression.

What I failed to spit out on my post above, was moral dilemma. I'm finding it very uncomfortable.

I got that OhSo - and I'm in the same place.

I absolutely DO NOT believe in violence, capital punishment, etc. and I absolutely DO believe that redemption is possible.

But - if certain people in power right now were in front of me, and I had a loaded gun, would I shoot? Yes, probably, such is my hatred for what some of them have done. If only to wound.

I don't think it's hyperbole to call some of these people evil. As Hannah Arendt said when speaking of Eichmann and others, that the people who committed atrocities were "terribly and terrifyingly normal".

Obviously, I do not equate what someone like IDS (for example) is doing with the Holocaust - but I've said before and I'll say again that the thinking and the propaganda behind a lot of what this government is doing is not that dissimilar to how the Nazis started - long before people realised what they were doing. I daresay some of those responsible didn't realise where they were headed themselves.

We are seeing the rise of corporatism, accompanied by divide-and-rule politics, all ably assisted by a compliant and in some cases corrupt media. We are seeing, across Europe, the inevitable response to austerity policies - more support for right wing ideology with the usual blaming and hatred that goes with it.

I'm a pretty easy-going person; I like to think I'm tolerant and open-minded. I can honestly say that until recently I have never really hated anyone - but seeing what's happening to many people in this country and elsewhere I really do hate those behind it all.

I've often blithely remarked the buggers ought to be hung drawn and quartered. But actually trying to work out how to nip their criminality in the bud given they're psychopaths who are by definition un-treatable, all I'm left with is locked up for life, which is never going to happen, or extermination which is by far the cleanest least expensive way of ridding ourselves of them.

And that's social cleansing.

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 3:06 pm**

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
yahyah wrote:I don't know what they've put in the water in Machynlleth but George Monbiot has Russell Brand as his Hero of 2014, and thinks he's the best thing to have happened to the left in years.
Unbelievable, if we tweet George can we send him something like.

How is Brand an asset for the left? He encourages people not to vote, a program for surrender to their Tory overlords.

Brand is the political equivalent of the Judean People's Front crack suicide squad.

[youtube]NUHk2RSMCS8[/youtube]

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 3:08 pm**

Marcus Chown
‏@marcuschown
When intellectuals at The Times & BBC legitimise a racist xenophobe you realise how Hitler got to power. Did Oxbridge teach them no history?

Posted: **Mon 29 Dec, 2014 3:08 pm**

The “Battenberg family” Wikipedia article was just edited anonymously from a UK government computer:

That anonymous editor is at it again, now working on "B's" - what is going on?
https://twitter.com/WhitehallEdits?lang=en-gb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FlyTheNest

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