Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2023

[refitman]

Morning all.

[frog222]

[frog222]

Neat work by Chris Smyth on Thursday !

Putting words into Kendall's mouth , 'apparently' ..., and now waiting for the denial ?



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jobl ... -xnfxthtgl

[AnatolyKasparov]

There is no direct quote there, and that is because it is s*** stirring by the Times.

Kendall's actual words are on the record, and "the Tories are not going far enough" or similar sentiments do not feature.

This is not defending Liz particularly (after all, she infamously supported benefit cuts in her 2015 leadership campaign) but the willingness of the left to believe right wing newspapers when it suits them has never failed to wryly amuse for the last four decades.

[frog222]

There is no direct quote there, and that is because it is s*** stirring by the Times.

As I pointed out ...

[AnatolyKasparov]

OK.

A lot of people are taking it as read though.

[frog222]

OK.
A lot of people are taking it as read though.

The mischief is that Labour can't come out fighting because they are shit'scared of idiot focus groups, and also because they ain't got an alternative policy ?

[refitman]

[refitman]

There seems to be a bit of a disconnect here

And

[refitman]

Weird how people don't consider the JC a serious publication

[frog222]

Plucky Little Israel conducts surgical strikes --

( The recent adjustment downwards of Israeli dead from 1400 to 1200 was because it was difficult to identify people after Hellfire missile attacks . )

[frog222]

[refitman]

[refitman]

[AnatolyKasparov]

And tbf I don't think they now expect Netanyahu to say "its a fair cop, indefinite ceasefire it is".

But you get the impression some online people here *do* think Starmer has magical powers to stop this and is only not doing so because he is a bad person.

[notnowsonny]

@AK
I would hazard a guess that most ‘dissenters’ on here fully recognise that whatever Starmer says or does it will make no difference, but just believe he should do the humanitarian thing!

[AnatolyKasparov]

Tbf by "here" I meant the UK and not just our happy band.

Being genuinely serious now, I do think us being a former major imperial power still has an effect in sometimes surprising ways.

[notnowsonny]

@AK
Fair enough. However, I would say that our soft power is on the wane rather alarmingly.

[refitman]

And tbf I don't think they now expect Netanyahu to say "its a fair cop, indefinite ceasefire it is".

But you get the impression some online people here *do* think Starmer has magical powers to stop this and is only not doing so because he is a bad person.

No. People just think that when a population is being shelled out of existence, the least you can do is say that one side should stop - even if you don't expect your words to have a material effect. And you certainly shouldn't threaten members of your party with the sack for being humanitarian.

Don't forget, one of Starmer's initial selling points was that he was a fucking human rights lawyer.

[refitman]

[refitman]

Vote Labour to save the NHS?

[frog222]

As wide open as Senior Labour's pockets have been to private sector Bribes .

[Sky'sGoneOut]

It's an absurd criticism of the Greens. The Parliament site published a list of how MPs voted on the ceasefire amendment, which I posted here.

It never occurred to me that I was being intimidating or nasty and I'm pretty sure the people who run parliament.uk feel the same.

Given some of things Campbell has got up to over the years it's beyond parody that he of all people is coming out with this.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

On a lighter note I was sitting up having a few drinks with my Dad last night when he began going on about Frenchmen called 'Onion Johnnies' riding around on bikes selling onions when he was a kid. According to him they wore stripey Breton shirts and berets and would ride down the street shouting 'onions'. I couldn't stop laughing and thought he was having me on but he was telling the god's honest truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Johnny

Presumably this is where the British stereotype of the Frenchman with a stripey shirt and onions round his neck comes from. I honestly had no idea.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Putting words into Kendall's mouth , 'apparently' ..., and now waiting for the denial ?

The disability news site had an article a couple of months ago with quotes from Vicky Foxcroft (shadow disability minister) saying Labour would scrap the Tory plans to make sickness and disability benefit assessments more difficult by removing the legal need to take account of a swathe of physical and mental health conditions.

I've no idea what Kendall is alleged to have been saying but what we've been hearing from those around her is actually quite positive from a claimants perspective.

Of course that does come with the enormous caveat that it's almost impossible to trust a word that comes out of any Labour shadow minister's mouth given the amount of backtracking and betrayal they've already indulged in.

[gilsey]

Nearly 884,000 internally displaced persons are sheltering in 154 UNRWA installations across all five governorates of the Gaza Strip, the UN agency for Palestinian refugees announced on Sunday.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

But you get the impression some online people here *do* think Starmer has magical powers to stop this and is only not doing so because he is a bad person.

No, he and those around him are bad people because they're gutless. Afraid to represent the revulsion and anger of the vast majority of Labour voters and the public at large because it would go down badly in the Tory press and they're terrified of the A word. It's spinelessly cynical.

Not only that but the argument they, and you, are putting forward makes a mockery of the entirety of the history of left wing politics.

Imagine if for the last century the Unions had said, 'Let's be realistic here the bosses aren't going to listen so there's no point making a fuss'.

The Labour Party wouldn't fucking exist and we'd be grovelling around in the mud eating rats.

Of course pragmatism should inform political thinking, but not on its own, we're not Vulcans. In fact I'm pretty sure Spock would find murdering thousands of innocent people illogical. For better or worse the Left has always been about emotions, empathy, sympathy, a sense of fairness. None of which can be objectively quantified but has always played a part in Liberal and Left wing politics. It's what we do, we feel, and through that the generations of protesters, left wing and Liberal politicians, and Union members before us have transformed our society for the better.

Taking a moral stand in the face of apparently implacable odds is what the Left has always been about, and in this particular case anyone with the slightest inkling about previous Israeli ceasefires knows they only come about due to concerted international pressure. By not joining those voices calling for a ceasefire Starmer is actively extending the butchery of helpless people.

This isn't personal AK and I don't mean to insult you but you're very wrong about this.

[Sky'sGoneOut]