Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th February 2024

[refitman]

Morning all.

[refitman]

Following on from Rog's post yesterday


Who could possibly seen this coming?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Of course, the quoted Tory "source" simply lied about what Anderson actually said - marches were not even mentioned.

[refitman]

[refitman]

"Lee! Lee! Don't say the racist bit out loud you Muppet"

[AnatolyKasparov]

Anderson has been suspended - Truss next?

[RogerOThornhill]

Hmm...

[RogerOThornhill]

I note that Truss was putting it about that top civil servants 'can't be sacked'.

Did she forget that she and Kwarteng sacked Tom Scholar?

[refitman]

[AnatolyKasparov]

There was some fuss over AS within Labour in 2016 (notably the Livingstone saga) but it didn't really take off for another couple of years.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Afternoon.

Looks like it's been a quiet week in politics while I've been away.

Here's the view from an Iron Age hill fort in the Ingram Valley with my Dad annoyingly wandering into shot.



Northumberland coast with Lindisfarne castle in the distance.

[refitman]

Ooh, that's some lovely landscape Sky.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

As for the Gaza amendments fiasco it's interesting to see those defending Starmer praising Labour for indulging in exactly the kind of shithousery we've been condemning the Tories for getting up to for years.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Ooh, that's some lovely landscape Sky.

Ta. There's a lot of it about up there.

[AnatolyKasparov]

As for the Gaza amendments fiasco it's interesting to see those defending Starmer praising Labour for indulging in exactly the kind of shithousery we've been condemning the Tories for getting up to for years.

So the SNP and Tories doing a shabby deal to stitch up Starmer wasn't that?

The past week certainly wasn't anyone's finest hour, but you maybe can't really blame Labour too much for fighting back.

[refitman]

Literally the thing you said Labour didn't do AK

[AnatolyKasparov]

What did I say they didn't do?

As I said they reacted to a breathtakingly cynical and dishonest stitch up. They fought fire with fire.

And in the end a motion supporting an immediate ceasefire was passed.

Wasn't that what everybody wanted?

[Sky'sGoneOut]

So the SNP and Tories doing a shabby deal to stitch up Starmer wasn't that?

The past week certainly wasn't anyone's finest hour, but you maybe can't really blame Labour too much for fighting back.

Nah sorry, not having that AK.

The SNP's position has been clear and consistent throughout the 'conflict' as opposed to Labour's gutless, reactive cowardice. The only people to blame for Labour finding themselves in the mess they were in were Starmer and those advising him. It's hardly the SNP's fault that the stance they've taken from the beginning is more representative of so many Labour MPs views than that taken by their own party leadership.

If Starmer had had an ounce of decency or moral courage he'd have allowed his MPs a free vote, but no, avoiding embarrassment was more important, so not only did he arrogantly hijack an SNP debate by fucking around in the house with delaying tactics while strong arming Hoyle to give him what he wanted, he's also provided ammunition to cranks like Braverman and the far right nutters who think Islamists are running the country. In fact it's worse than that because it allows mainstream Conservatives to smear everyone protesting against the slaughter in Gaza as extremists using Starmer's reasoning for why Labour needed their own amendment. Camilla Tominey was at it on QT on Thursday.

It was an appalling act of spineless self preservation made all the worse for its contemptuous disregard for any other concern beyond the naked self interest of Starmer and his clique.

If the Tories had done this you'd be treating it with the utter contempt it deserves.

Let me ask you. Do you think this country is better off as a result of what Starmer did? Because all I've seen is a huge rise in Islamophobic garbage from those emboldened by the oh so clever trick he pulled. Which might have got rid of an idiot like Lee Anderson, but has opened the door just that little bit wider for what's regarded as acceptable discourse for those cleverer racists who are triumphantly using it to claim they were right all along.

[AnatolyKasparov]

The idea that the likes of Lee Anderson only decided to be Islamophobic after this week is a bit of a stretch tbh.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

The idea that the likes of Lee Anderson only decided to be Islamophobic after this week is a bit of a stretch tbh.

Come on AK, we've known each other for years on this forum so I know you're better than wilfully misrepresenting what I said.

Have Starmer's actions last week aided and emboldened those who stoke Islamophobia in this country. Yes or no?

[AnatolyKasparov]

I genuinely think it made very little difference.

At the end of the day his "actions" largely involved parliamentary procedures which will have been fairly incomprehensible to the vast majority.

If you are making implications about MPs feeling insecure being blamed on Muslims, that's arguably more down to the Speaker than him.

And in any case, most of those who want to believe that would have found a reason to believe it anyway.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

I genuinely think it made very little difference.

At the end of the day his "actions" largely involved parliamentary procedures which will have been fairly incomprehensible to the vast majority.

If you are making implications about MPs feeling insecure being blamed on Muslims, that's arguably more down to the Speaker than him.

And in any case, most of those who want to believe that would have found a reason to believe it anyway.

It's not me making those implications, it's right wing commentators and far right racists, after the speaker was threatened by some Labour clowns.

And Labour abusing those 'fairly incomprehensible parliamentary procedures' led to a shouty fiasco which debased parliament further if it's even possible.

As for your last point. It's not a matter of belief, Starmer confirmed their prejudices in the most idiotic way possible. Now we have a Labour leader on record saying he needs to have special unconstitutional treatment because extremist Muslims are going to kill his MPs.

[AnatolyKasparov]

I mean its not "special unconstitutional treatment" - its a CONVENTION which has in fact (contrary to several claims immediately after the event) been breached before (even if only a literal handful of times, that still means that what happened this week was not in fact "totally unprecedented")

It was Hoyle who really bigged up the "MPs at risk" thing - after the storm of criticism for his original (though to lots of people, perfectly reasonable) statement that he wanted the "fullest possible debate" which brought upon his head hysterical, rabid abuse from the unholy alliance of Tory and SNP MPs.

The fact remains that their crude stitch up to shaft Labour and Starmer was deeply, fundamentally evil. THEY are to blame for anything that happens.

And I will go to my grave believing this. Because it is true. They both revealed their total unfitness to govern, instead revelling in hate and division. Whereas the Labour amendment was designed to promote consensus and unity on a topic that desperately needs some of it.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Blimey.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

[AnatolyKasparov]

Yeah, maybe got a bit carried away there. Still stand by the gist of it though.

Again, nobody came out *well* from this past week. But there has been a lot of self serving guff about how Starmer/Labour were uniquely culpable.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Anyway, goodnight.

I am very likely having my troublesome tooth taken out in the coming week, so wish me luck.

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Good luck dude.