Thursday 8th January 2015

[rebeccariots2]

Two real peachies:

John Prescott ‏@johnprescott 27m27 minutes ago
I think Cameron's excuse to wimp out of TV debates he's no good at can be best described as 'Green Crap'

Ian Mearns MP retweeted
Marcus Chown ‏@marcuschown 5h5 hours ago
I thought an Eton mess was a dessert until I saw what David Cameron has done to our A&Es

[Tubby Isaacs]

Ah, fair enough, meeting held and chaired by the appropriate minister.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Thought he'd call one in the light of Charlie Hebdo.

He must have had something important like a meeting with Lynton.

I think he would have to invite Miliband along. In fact technically he wouldn't be an MP. I therefore think it unlikely.

Cameron would still be PM though until a new gov is formed so if necessary he would/could chair a COBRA meeting. Gus O'Donnell pointed out today [or was it yesterday] that after the election if there wasn't a working majority, a new Coalition could take much longer to form and Cameron would still have to stay as PM while that was being negotiated. Shame he never bothered to mention that publicly after the last election when the media, press and various Tory and Lib dem MPs were referring to Gordon Brown 'squatting in Downing street'. It boiled my piss at the time especially as Brown was told in no uncertain terms by O'Donnell, the Palace, Cameron, and Clegg, that it was his constitutional duty to stay until the coalition had been formed.

Well he would be an MP after the election. In the election it all gets a little bit trickier. What would happen if he lost his seat, presumably his deputy becomes PM?

[howsillyofme1]

I thought they did call one today ....? Am I totally batty? (Don't answer that.)

Yes they did. May chaired it.

And to be fair you would expect them to do so. Slightly surprised Dave let Teresa chair it though. I imagine they reviewed intelligence, agreed to step up border security and to watch out for small boats crossing the channel.


Edited to add - the spelling is deliberate.

Why would they be expected to do so? I doubt there was any chance of the perps coming to the UK - more likely to cross a land border. I am not saying think about it but COBRA seems to be a monthly event now. How many times did the previous Governments convene it?

[AngryAsWell]

Thanks for posting this but I disagree as I cannot accept that violence is the correct response to satire. In some ways I feel sorry for some of the people who carry out these acts because they are often (not always though) exploited and used by those who do not deserve an ounce of sympathy.

I understand your point of view, and agree entirely with the last sentence. Many people I know would be offended by what I wrote, they have quite strong views, and express themselves in terms of western intellectual political views, and tbh don't really see things through any other lense. I think you do.

I'm not religious myself but understand it takes time for views to change and that includes western religious views, which are quite hard to eradicate from thinking too, even when people think they have left them behind. My problem with satirising Islam is that it is having its own internal dialogue at the moment and is as a consequence very polarised, rather like the one that Christianity had that prompted all kinds of wars and suffering. And eventually resulted in more open thinking. Perhaps people simply tired and were exhausted by it. Are we damaging this process or creating a backward looking process by the pressure we exert. I think we are, because I grew up in places with very peaceful Muslim communities, and there were a lot like them, now nearly all fractured and in trouble, mostly because of first world meddling.

In some cultures mockery is considered very insulting. Like throwing down a gauntlet. We talk about 'taking offence'. We don't do that about religion for the most part but might get very heated about football. It's our culture. And respecting their religion is Islamic culture. And there are a lot of Muslim baiters out there, from classroom bullies to media giants. I'm not okay about offending people about their faith. I would not do that to anyone, though I might take issue with Christmas. And be a grinch.

Satire and mockery aren't present in all cultures. And I'm not happy, myself, in imposing them because of my belief system, even if I find them clever, amusing or politically astute. And the same goes for any visible signs of religious affiliation, I choose tolerance first, but not of violence or anything that goes with it.

I'm not Charlie, because while I absolutely disagree with what happened to the people who died yesterday I think CharlieHebdo knew they were doing what you describe, and it doesn't sit well with tolerance as I know it.

I'm not Charlie also because though I can empathise and feel solidarity with the victims and family I am not them, it's an emotive political stance I won't take. I am also not my lovely Muslim neighbours and their lovely children. I do not have more than an inkling of how they are feeling, but know it affects them, as does the graffiti that regularly appears on a long white wall adjacent to their home,(vile does not begin to describe it) and which targets the Muslim girl students at the very multicultural school across the road. I would regard doing so as being similar to the way white Americans unthinkingly usurp the struggle of black people, while being unaware of how deeply predjudice circumscribes some black lives.

In my very multicultural school overseas we never ate or drank in front of our Muslim school friends during Ramadan, it would have been unkind to do so, and would have caused them suffering. To me the issue of satire and mockery is the same. Our teachers likewise never expected Muslim students to draw people, because that is forbidden in Islam. So cartoons break that rule, which has, at its heart some very egalitarian ideas. Rarely ever discussed.

You say 'we' are too sensitive to satire. Personally I love it along with all sorts of other visual and verbal humour. And know it is a valued part of our culture. I do remember having to relearn it after many years away though, humour is not the same everywhere, nor does it serve the same purpose. I like those differences, and am irked when I see an acceptance of them equated to 'pandering' to other cultures, or diluting our own.

Violence and murder are not cultural expressions and it is distressing to see the two being confused, mostly by people with very extreme views.

Tbh, I am tired of the media portayal of different ethnicities altogether. We are humans with different and interesting histories. We should be building new and better realities, but the media persists in polarising us. It was interesting to read that racist behaviour to Chinese people is barely recognised but is on the rise. We rather stupidly don't seem to believe it exists, because Chinese people are 'well integrated'. When my two children were subject to this I was told it was only a joke, when they were described as slitty eyed by kids in their school. I, for complaining, and wanting this to be discouraged, was deemed over sensitive. Not religion, I know, but intolerance takes many forms.

I've strayed a little, or perhaps a lot, and while I've referred to your post this is not aimed at you, but perhaps more a response to my own thoughts on reading it.

Peace. And may this fresh wound be healed rather than picked over. Thebwhole world needs that healing.

Thank you for putting my thoughts into words, I am not Charlie either. Not for want of empathy towards those lost, but because the reasons behind their loss runs so much deeper than cartoons.
Did the world mourn these 12 deaths?
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not really, no.
First we bomb, then we laugh at what they hold dear and get upset that they don't see the joke.
Feeling very sad at the moment.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Yes they did. May chaired it.

And to be fair you would expect them to do so. Slightly surprised Dave let Teresa chair it though. I imagine they reviewed intelligence, agreed to step up border security and to watch out for small boats crossing the channel.


Edited to add - the spelling is deliberate.

Why would they be expected to do so? I doubt there was any chance of the perps coming to the UK - more likely to cross a land border. I am not saying think about it but COBRA seems to be a monthly event now. How many times did the previous Governments convene it?

Why, answers below.

Unexpected terrorist attack in France, are we sure there isn't one lined up here?
Given we have a border with France how do we know they aren't going to try and enter the UK?
What measures do we need to tighten our borders?
Are we aware of any intelligence we have that could help France?

COBRA is really about dealing with this sort of thing, as well as planning for a set of disaster scenarios. I don't know how often it met under Labour but I knew people working on COBRA projects.

[Tubby Isaacs]

For a start, there'd be questions about whether British papers would reprint the Charlie stuff, and the security implications of that.

Think May was right to hold and chair.

[howsillyofme1]

Thanks for posting this but I disagree as I cannot accept that violence is the correct response to satire. In some ways I feel sorry for some of the people who carry out these acts because they are often (not always though) exploited and used by those who do not deserve an ounce of sympathy.

I understand your point of view, and agree entirely with the last sentence. Many people I know would be offended by what I wrote, they have quite strong views, and express themselves in terms of western intellectual political views, and tbh don't really see things through any other lense. I think you do.

I'm not religious myself but understand it takes time for views to change and that includes western religious views, which are quite hard to eradicate from thinking too, even when people think they have left them behind. My problem with satirising Islam is that it is having its own internal dialogue at the moment and is as a consequence very polarised, rather like the one that Christianity had that prompted all kinds of wars and suffering. And eventually resulted in more open thinking. Perhaps people simply tired and were exhausted by it. Are we damaging this process or creating a backward looking process by the pressure we exert. I think we are, because I grew up in places with very peaceful Muslim communities, and there were a lot like them, now nearly all fractured and in trouble, mostly because of first world meddling.

In some cultures mockery is considered very insulting. Like throwing down a gauntlet. We talk about 'taking offence'. We don't do that about religion for the most part but might get very heated about football. It's our culture. And respecting their religion is Islamic culture. And there are a lot of Muslim baiters out there, from classroom bullies to media giants. I'm not okay about offending people about their faith. I would not do that to anyone, though I might take issue with Christmas. And be a grinch.

Satire and mockery aren't present in all cultures. And I'm not happy, myself, in imposing them because of my belief system, even if I find them clever, amusing or politically astute. And the same goes for any visible signs of religious affiliation, I choose tolerance first, but not of violence or anything that goes with it.

I'm not Charlie, because while I absolutely disagree with what happened to the people who died yesterday I think CharlieHebdo knew they were doing what you describe, and it doesn't sit well with tolerance as I know it.

I'm not Charlie also because though I can empathise and feel solidarity with the victims and family I am not them, it's an emotive political stance I won't take. I am also not my lovely Muslim neighbours and their lovely children. I do not have more than an inkling of how they are feeling, but know it affects them, as does the graffiti that regularly appears on a long white wall adjacent to their home,(vile does not begin to describe it) and which targets the Muslim girl students at the very multicultural school across the road. I would regard doing so as being similar to the way white Americans unthinkingly usurp the struggle of black people, while being unaware of how deeply predjudice circumscribes some black lives.

In my very multicultural school overseas we never ate or drank in front of our Muslim school friends during Ramadan, it would have been unkind to do so, and would have caused them suffering. To me the issue of satire and mockery is the same. Our teachers likewise never expected Muslim students to draw people, because that is forbidden in Islam. So cartoons break that rule, which has, at its heart some very egalitarian ideas. Rarely ever discussed.

You say 'we' are too sensitive to satire. Personally I love it along with all sorts of other visual and verbal humour. And know it is a valued part of our culture. I do remember having to relearn it after many years away though, humour is not the same everywhere, nor does it serve the same purpose. I like those differences, and am irked when I see an acceptance of them equated to 'pandering' to other cultures, or diluting our own.

Violence and murder are not cultural expressions and it is distressing to see the two being confused, mostly by people with very extreme views.

Tbh, I am tired of the media portayal of different ethnicities altogether. We are humans with different and interesting histories. We should be building new and better realities, but the media persists in polarising us. It was interesting to read that racist behaviour to Chinese people is barely recognised but is on the rise. We rather stupidly don't seem to believe it exists, because Chinese people are 'well integrated'. When my two children were subject to this I was told it was only a joke, when they were described as slitty eyed by kids in their school. I, for complaining, and wanting this to be discouraged, was deemed over sensitive. Not religion, I know, but intolerance takes many forms.

I've strayed a little, or perhaps a lot, and while I've referred to your post this is not aimed at you, but perhaps more a response to my own thoughts on reading it.

Peace. And may this fresh wound be healed rather than picked over. Thebwhole world needs that healing.

Thank you for putting my thoughts into words, I am not Charlie either. Not for want of empathy towards those lost, but because the reasons behind their loss runs so much deeper than cartoons.
Did the world mourn these 12 deaths?
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not really, no.
First we bomb, then we laugh at what they hold dear and get upset that they don't see the joke.
Feeling very sad at the moment.

I felt the same about these innocents as I did the innocents in Paris - I do not draw any distinction and we shouldn't start trying to use the disgraceful actions of westerners as an excuse for these consequent acts. If we do that then where does that take us?

I don't care what they hold dear - religion is a belief and can be challenged and satirized without fear of death. Just like political beliefs.

Religions hold far more power over people than a small satirical magazine, and sometimes mockery is the best way to make people think about what they believe.

[AngryAsWell]

Tory twitter post- since deleted
http://order-order.com/2015/01/08/torie ... spiracy%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is to appalling for words.

[Tizme1]

I think he would have to invite Miliband along. In fact technically he wouldn't be an MP. I therefore think it unlikely.

Cameron would still be PM though until a new gov is formed so if necessary he would/could chair a COBRA meeting. Gus O'Donnell pointed out today [or was it yesterday] that after the election if there wasn't a working majority, a new Coalition could take much longer to form and Cameron would still have to stay as PM while that was being negotiated. Shame he never bothered to mention that publicly after the last election when the media, press and various Tory and Lib dem MPs were referring to Gordon Brown 'squatting in Downing street'. It boiled my piss at the time especially as Brown was told in no uncertain terms by O'Donnell, the Palace, Cameron, and Clegg, that it was his constitutional duty to stay until the coalition had been formed.

Well he would be an MP after the election. In the election it all gets a little bit trickier. What would happen if he lost his seat, presumably his deputy becomes PM?

Interesting question. Yes I'd guess it would be the deputy leader of the Tories.

[howsillyofme1]

For a start, there'd be questions about whether British papers would reprint the Charlie stuff, and the security implications of that.

Think May was right to hold and chair.

Sorry, don't accept that as an argument at all - why would the Government interfere in what newspapers were going to publish. Did the German Government do the same thing when their papers actually did reprint them?

I expect these things to be discussed in Government but why announce something that is supposed to be used in a national emergency situation?

[AngryAsWell]

I understand your point of view, and agree entirely with the last sentence. Many people I know would be offended by what I wrote, they have quite strong views, and express themselves in terms of western intellectual political views, and tbh don't really see things through any other lense. I think you do.

I'm not religious myself but understand it takes time for views to change and that includes western religious views, which are quite hard to eradicate from thinking too, even when people think they have left them behind. My problem with satirising Islam is that it is having its own internal dialogue at the moment and is as a consequence very polarised, rather like the one that Christianity had that prompted all kinds of wars and suffering. And eventually resulted in more open thinking. Perhaps people simply tired and were exhausted by it. Are we damaging this process or creating a backward looking process by the pressure we exert. I think we are, because I grew up in places with very peaceful Muslim communities, and there were a lot like them, now nearly all fractured and in trouble, mostly because of first world meddling.

In some cultures mockery is considered very insulting. Like throwing down a gauntlet. We talk about 'taking offence'. We don't do that about religion for the most part but might get very heated about football. It's our culture. And respecting their religion is Islamic culture. And there are a lot of Muslim baiters out there, from classroom bullies to media giants. I'm not okay about offending people about their faith. I would not do that to anyone, though I might take issue with Christmas. And be a grinch.

Satire and mockery aren't present in all cultures. And I'm not happy, myself, in imposing them because of my belief system, even if I find them clever, amusing or politically astute. And the same goes for any visible signs of religious affiliation, I choose tolerance first, but not of violence or anything that goes with it.

I'm not Charlie, because while I absolutely disagree with what happened to the people who died yesterday I think CharlieHebdo knew they were doing what you describe, and it doesn't sit well with tolerance as I know it.

I'm not Charlie also because though I can empathise and feel solidarity with the victims and family I am not them, it's an emotive political stance I won't take. I am also not my lovely Muslim neighbours and their lovely children. I do not have more than an inkling of how they are feeling, but know it affects them, as does the graffiti that regularly appears on a long white wall adjacent to their home,(vile does not begin to describe it) and which targets the Muslim girl students at the very multicultural school across the road. I would regard doing so as being similar to the way white Americans unthinkingly usurp the struggle of black people, while being unaware of how deeply predjudice circumscribes some black lives.

In my very multicultural school overseas we never ate or drank in front of our Muslim school friends during Ramadan, it would have been unkind to do so, and would have caused them suffering. To me the issue of satire and mockery is the same. Our teachers likewise never expected Muslim students to draw people, because that is forbidden in Islam. So cartoons break that rule, which has, at its heart some very egalitarian ideas. Rarely ever discussed.

You say 'we' are too sensitive to satire. Personally I love it along with all sorts of other visual and verbal humour. And know it is a valued part of our culture. I do remember having to relearn it after many years away though, humour is not the same everywhere, nor does it serve the same purpose. I like those differences, and am irked when I see an acceptance of them equated to 'pandering' to other cultures, or diluting our own.

Violence and murder are not cultural expressions and it is distressing to see the two being confused, mostly by people with very extreme views.

Tbh, I am tired of the media portayal of different ethnicities altogether. We are humans with different and interesting histories. We should be building new and better realities, but the media persists in polarising us. It was interesting to read that racist behaviour to Chinese people is barely recognised but is on the rise. We rather stupidly don't seem to believe it exists, because Chinese people are 'well integrated'. When my two children were subject to this I was told it was only a joke, when they were described as slitty eyed by kids in their school. I, for complaining, and wanting this to be discouraged, was deemed over sensitive. Not religion, I know, but intolerance takes many forms.

I've strayed a little, or perhaps a lot, and while I've referred to your post this is not aimed at you, but perhaps more a response to my own thoughts on reading it.

Peace. And may this fresh wound be healed rather than picked over. Thebwhole world needs that healing.

Thank you for putting my thoughts into words, I am not Charlie either. Not for want of empathy towards those lost, but because the reasons behind their loss runs so much deeper than cartoons.
Did the world mourn these 12 deaths?
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not really, no.
First we bomb, then we laugh at what they hold dear and get upset that they don't see the joke.
Feeling very sad at the moment.

I felt the same about these innocents as I did the innocents in Paris - I do not draw any distinction and we shouldn't start trying to use the disgraceful actions of westerners as an excuse for these consequent acts. If we do that then where does that take us?

I don't care what they hold dear - religion is a belief and can be challenged and satirized without fear of death. Just like political beliefs.

Religions hold far more power over people than a small satirical magazine, and sometimes mockery is the best way to make people think about what they believe.

I most certainly was not using the example as an "excuse" - I would hope that anyone who knows me would not for one minute think that.
We have to look deeper to find the reasons - reasons not excuses - why our world is tearing apart, and we in the West need to acknowledge our part in the ripping.

[howsillyofme1]

And to be fair you would expect them to do so. Slightly surprised Dave let Teresa chair it though. I imagine they reviewed intelligence, agreed to step up border security and to watch out for small boats crossing the channel.


Edited to add - the spelling is deliberate.

Why would they be expected to do so? I doubt there was any chance of the perps coming to the UK - more likely to cross a land border. I am not saying think about it but COBRA seems to be a monthly event now. How many times did the previous Governments convene it?

Why, answers below.

Unexpected terrorist attack in France, are we sure there isn't one lined up here?
Given we have a border with France how do we know they aren't going to try and enter the UK?
What measures do we need to tighten our borders?
Are we aware of any intelligence we have that could help France?

COBRA is really about dealing with this sort of thing, as well as planning for a set of disaster scenarios. I don't know how often it met under Labour but I knew people working on COBRA projects.

Sorry, don't buy it

[howsillyofme1]

Thank you for putting my thoughts into words, I am not Charlie either. Not for want of empathy towards those lost, but because the reasons behind their loss runs so much deeper than cartoons.
Did the world mourn these 12 deaths?
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Not really, no.
First we bomb, then we laugh at what they hold dear and get upset that they don't see the joke.
Feeling very sad at the moment.

I felt the same about these innocents as I did the innocents in Paris - I do not draw any distinction and we shouldn't start trying to use the disgraceful actions of westerners as an excuse for these consequent acts. If we do that then where does that take us?

I don't care what they hold dear - religion is a belief and can be challenged and satirized without fear of death. Just like political beliefs.

Religions hold far more power over people than a small satirical magazine, and sometimes mockery is the best way to make people think about what they believe.

I most certainly was not using the example as an "excuse" - I would hope that anyone who knows me would not for one minute think that.
We have to look deeper to find the reasons - reasons not excuses - why our world is tearing apart, and we in the West need to acknowledge our part in the ripping.

Sorry Angry but your line

"First we bomb, then we laugh at what they hold dear and get upset that they don't see the joke"

seems like an excuse for them doing what they did - I perfectly accept they will sometimes be offended by satire of their religion and that is totally acceptable but to kill people for satirical cartoons - never!

There seems to be a big gap between 'not seeing the joke' and murder

[TechnicalEphemera]

For a start, there'd be questions about whether British papers would reprint the Charlie stuff, and the security implications of that.

Think May was right to hold and chair.

Sorry, don't accept that as an argument at all - why would the Government interfere in what newspapers were going to publish. Did the German Government do the same thing when their papers actually did reprint them?

I expect these things to be discussed in Government but why announce something that is supposed to be used in a national emergency situation?

COBRA is the interface between the professionals who have a clue and the politicians who generally don't. For example it is rumoured in the summer riots Dave had to be put back in his box by COBRA to stop him doing something stupid.

When shit happens you want to talk to the police, intelligence services, civil defence and armed forces. You also want them all sharing their thoughts.

I hadn't thought about it, but as posted above, the question what action might we need to take if the UK press reprints the cartoons would have come up.

[RogerOThornhill]

Anyone watching the GuardianLive event on the Paris murders?

On the front page and you can scroll back to the beginning - Giles Fraser, Roswon, Bell, Nick Cohen and others.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AngryAsWell]

I felt the same about these innocents as I did the innocents in Paris - I do not draw any distinction and we shouldn't start trying to use the disgraceful actions of westerners as an excuse for these consequent acts. If we do that then where does that take us?

I don't care what they hold dear - religion is a belief and can be challenged and satirized without fear of death. Just like political beliefs.

Religions hold far more power over people than a small satirical magazine, and sometimes mockery is the best way to make people think about what they believe.

I most certainly was not using the example as an "excuse" - I would hope that anyone who knows me would not for one minute think that.
We have to look deeper to find the reasons - reasons not excuses - why our world is tearing apart, and we in the West need to acknowledge our part in the ripping.

Sorry Angry but your line

"First we bomb, then we laugh at what they hold dear and get upset that they don't see the joke"

seems like an excuse for them doing what they did - I perfectly accept they will sometimes be offended by satire of their religion and that is totally acceptable but to kill people for satirical cartoons - never!

There seems to be a big gap between 'not seeing the joke' and murder

My point is it's not "just" the cartoons, as I also said :
"...but because the reasons behind their loss runs so much deeper than cartoons.
To not look further than the end of our nose is to deny the reality of what has been happening, and how the hatred that leads to these kinds of attacks has taken root out of the loss of family and loved ones - in the main killed in the name of bringing "peace".
I'll not reply further, the subject is too raw.
Goodnight all

[Tubby Isaacs]

For a start, there'd be questions about whether British papers would reprint the Charlie stuff, and the security implications of that.

Think May was right to hold and chair.

Sorry, don't accept that as an argument at all - why would the Government interfere in what newspapers were going to publish. Did the German Government do the same thing when their papers actually did reprint them?

I expect these things to be discussed in Government but why announce something that is supposed to be used in a national emergency situation?

No idea what the German government did. Surely though there'd be security implications if newspapers did publish? Even if I thought publishing was the right thing to do, I'd be shit scared.

There would also be anti-Muslim attacks to consider.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Another good point Tubby, you should get a job in risk analysis.

[seeingclearly]

I just noticed our countdown is no longer measured in months but days. As I will be away for around 45 days of what remains, it makes the election seem alarmingly close. I see more posts online from people intending to vote Labour which lifts my spirits, but trollery is on the rise, and it's often hard to tell third origin. There is also more evidence of would be MPs. Hmmm.

I went out for the first time in three months today, and was amused to encounter my first 'angry and disabled' person. As I am in complete sympathy with his cause and am rather mobility impaired my self I was amused by the encounter; with a loud 'move over, disabled leg coming through' he charged through in his hi-vis jacket, elbowing a very elderly lady in the face, and shoving me and my sticks out of the way. My son said, Mu-um, he could have said please, before we fell about laughing!

No damage was done, but I guess at some point when most of the barriers to access and participation come down, and hopefully our society regains its structural conscience, there will have to be an understanding that equality is that, not more, not less. (I do know the arguments for more.)Until then I'm rather heartened by the event, though I may not have felt that way if I had been floored. Far or near, it's going to be an interesting year.

How many of you will be holding those all important conversations? That's some target to meet......

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Angry Bird Flies retweeted
Steve Topple ‏@stevetopple 4m4 minutes ago
#EU has released provisional #TTIP agreement details @eci_ttip

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/ ... fm?id=1230" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

[ohsocynical]

Reading GetReading today a bridal wear shop has abruptly gone out of business, another company Mamas and Papas is shutting down because they couldn't agree the terms of their lease.

and in eye watering contrast:

Duchess Kate's brother yet to make any dough from his Berkshire cake company
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... ke-8406540

[refitman]

For a start, there'd be questions about whether British papers would reprint the Charlie stuff, and the security implications of that.

Think May was right to hold and chair.

Simon Jenkins was on PM earlier and was asked about there being a COBRA meeting. He made the point that he would expect the Government to hold a meeting, but didn't expect to be repeatedly told about it. As he rightly said, one of the jobs in Government is to keep the citizens of the country safe, and we should be able to assume that they are just getting on and doing it (I know, assuming anything competent with this lot is asking and awful lot).

DFH was also on and said he was willing to give up almost all his online security/privacy if it meant this kind of thing wouldn't happen again. Jenkins made the point that you will never stop these events happening all together.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Reading GetReading today a bridal wear shop has abruptly gone out of business, another company Mamas and Papas is shutting down because they couldn't agree the terms of their lease.

and in eye watering contrast:

Duchess Kate's brother yet to make any dough from his Berkshire cake company
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... ke-8406540

I think it is excellent that your town encourages people to enjoy books so enthusiastically. I am always impressed by the huge literary festival they hold every year.

Or am I confused?

[TechnicalEphemera]

For a start, there'd be questions about whether British papers would reprint the Charlie stuff, and the security implications of that.

Think May was right to hold and chair.

Simon Jenkins was on PM earlier and was asked about there being a COBRA meeting. He made the point that he would expect the Government to hold a meeting, but didn't expect to be repeatedly told about it. As he rightly said, one of the jobs in Government is to keep the citizens of the country safe, and we should be able to assume that they are just getting on and doing it (I know, assuming anything competent with this lot is asking and awful lot).

DFH was also on and said he was willing to give up almost all his online security/privacy if it meant this kind of thing wouldn't happen again. Jenkins made the point that you will never stop these events happening all together.

I am also very happy for DFH to give up all his online security and privacy to stop this happening again. I am particularly looking forward to looking through his phone photos and emails, plus I fancy intercepting images from his web cam so I can enter him for MI5 ugly mug of the year award.

However Dan I would not be happy to give up my security and privacy, and I rather suspect the people associated with Charlie would never countenance such a thing.

[ohsocynical]

Reading GetReading today a bridal wear shop has abruptly gone out of business, another company Mamas and Papas is shutting down because they couldn't agree the terms of their lease.

and in eye watering contrast:

Duchess Kate's brother yet to make any dough from his Berkshire cake company
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... ke-8406540

I think it is excellent that your town encourages people to enjoy books so enthusiastically. I am always impressed by the huge literary festival they hold every year.

Or am I confused?

I dunno I don't think they do.

I was just amazed at the amount of debt he's carrying and blithely using his parents money to get ever deeper into debt.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I don't quite Jenkins there. Surely "are COBRA meeting?" is going to come up in the media. Fair enough to say that it is?

[ohsocynical]

Only a personal observation, but over my lifetime I've concluded the more something or someone is mocked the more they dig their heels in. Although satisfying for those doing the mocking, it's counter productive.

[citizenJA]

Tory twitter post- since deleted
http://order-order.com/2015/01/08/torie ... spiracy%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is to appalling for words.

Group linked to Tory leadership suggests “sacrifice” of the Charlie Hebdo murdered will “go to waste” if they don’t win seats
JANUARY 8, 2015 3:39 PM

http://labourlist.org/2015/01/group-lin ... win-seats/

[TechnicalEphemera]

Jesus, how cynical is this.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... rew-parker

Right wing fascist uses deaths of left wing journalists to further his own ambition to run a police state.

How much more power do they need? They already ignore the law and use anti-terrorism legislation to persecute journalists.

[citizenJA]

Angry Bird Flies retweeted
Steve Topple ‏@stevetopple 4m4 minutes ago
#EU has released provisional #TTIP agreement details @eci_ttip

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/ ... fm?id=1230" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Whoo...hooo...too much is never enough! Slick webpage pagination & lovely links! Y'all said you were worried about this here treaty...have a gander! All the documents on one handy page.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Angry Bird Flies retweeted
Steve Topple ‏@stevetopple 4m4 minutes ago
#EU has released provisional #TTIP agreement details @eci_ttip

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/ ... fm?id=1230" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Whoo...hooo...too much is never enough! Slick webpage pagination & lovely links! Y'all said you were worried about this here treaty...have a gander! All the documents on one handy page.

It is an interesting set of documents. Critical public services are completely protected including health, social care and water. Other public services are protected but only in limited ways.

[citizenJA]

good-night, everyone.
I love you.
JA

[ohsocynical]

Only a personal observation, but over my lifetime I've concluded the more something or someone is mocked the more they dig their heels in. Although satisfying for those doing the mocking, it's counter productive.

I'm also thinking of that worm IDS. At how much ridicule, hate, and insults have been thrown at him over the last nearly five years, and how little it's affected what he's done and will be doing to the bitter end.

[ohsocynical]

good-night, everyone.
I love you.
JA

Night JA

[Tizme1]

I don't quite Jenkins there. Surely "are COBRA meeting?" is going to come up in the media. Fair enough to say that it is?

If the question is asked, then the answer could be either "yes" [or no for that matter], or "all appropriate measures have been taken". Granted, that would require a degree of trust from the public, but frankly being told there has been a COBRA meeting doesn't inspire any trust in me.

When I was in my 20's I worked for an American firm. Not unusual nowadays but it was less common then. I was employed as the Stock Controller and Assistant to the Sales Office Manager. One day, I got called into a meeting with the big bosses and I got something of a roasting. Turned out later that a few of my colleagues got the same treatment and it was the American way of sorting out who could deal with pressure yada, yada, yada. Anyway, I trundled off home feeling quite upset. And then I thought 'bollocks, I am actually doing all the things I'm meant to, plus frequently covering the arse of the Sales Office Manager'. So from then on in, instead of just getting on with it, I announced everything I was doing. "I'm going down to the stock room to check levels of PL X3974", "I'm going to a meeting with Mr F [Sales Rep manager] about blah blah blah", "Just off to the warehouse to do a spot check" and so on. I was probably so busy announcing everything I was doing that I actually did less! However it worked for them - short while later I was promoted to Sales Office Manager myself.

And that kind of is the point. All this bollocks about Cameron [or whoever] chairing a COBRA meeting is just to make it look like he is doing something. But he's the PM - its his fucking job to deal with this stuff. Jenkins is right in this - we should just be able to take it as a given that such meetings are happening as and when necessary.

[Spacedone]

Angry Bird Flies retweeted
Steve Topple ‏@stevetopple 4m4 minutes ago
#EU has released provisional #TTIP agreement details @eci_ttip

http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/press/ ... fm?id=1230" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Whoo...hooo...too much is never enough! Slick webpage pagination & lovely links! Y'all said you were worried about this here treaty...have a gander! All the documents on one handy page.

It is an interesting set of documents. Critical public services are completely protected including health, social care and water. Other public services are protected but only in limited ways.

I read it as saying they're protected if the government chooses to protect them.

[RogerOThornhill]

Just watching the last bit of QT and Cable has put the blame for the A&E crisis partly on the GP contract.

Yes, Vince that's the one which didn't seem to have any impact on A&E for 11 years until now?

[rebeccariots2]

Iain Dale @IainDale · 50m 50 minutes ago
Yes the Greens must be invited to take part in a debate. But I won't vote for a party whose leader refuses to take part in election debates.

Gosh - and he's a Tory. A former Conservative PPC no less.

[rebeccariots2]

GENERAL ELECTION PREDICTIONS 40: WALES - WEST GLAMORGAN
http://www.iaindale.com/posts/2015/01/0 ... um=twitter

[LadyCentauria]

What do folk reckon the odds are on DC unnecessarily calling a COBRA during the election campaign? I'd say about evens.

Thought he'd call one in the light of Charlie Hebdo.

He must have had something important like a meeting with Lynton.

There was one. It was chaired by Theresa May and resulted in increased security at ports, airports, and 'major transport hubs.' So, yes, Empty must have had 'something more important' to do. Probably involving a nice lunch somewhere, pointing at fish.

Edit to add: of course, I should have read all of today's comments before replying, as this has clearly been answered above ~ but I am s-l-o-w today...

[LadyCentauria]

The BBC tells us that NHS spending on children's mental health has fallen 6% in real terms since 2010 (£50m) according to a parliamentary answer to a Labour question. Labour accused the Govt. of breaking its promise of priority for mental health. Ministers say they've put in an extra £7m this year for psychiatric beds...