Friday 9th January 2015

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 4:57 pm

Aren't all three gun men dead ?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 5:20 pm

And now they say the supermarket hostage-taker is 'neutralised,' which usually means dead...

Unrelated, please friends, hold my father in hour thoughts as he faces a crisis. Terry in Medway for anyone who thinks in terms of healing energy. Thanks guys. I love you all xxx

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 5:27 pm

Toby Latimer wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Re. Sue Marsh.

I've read her blogpost about her new job. I'm not sure what to think about this, frankly.

Maximus are not a nice company. Their record in the US shows that. They have also somehow finagled a deal that involves about £100 Million more a year than Atos got for the WCA - and Atos itself has a new £10 Million contract to supply the IT for Maximus (which I believe is due to the fact that they own or lease the LIMA software from Unum)

Maximus have also appointed Mike O'Donnell - previous medical director of Atos and before that clinical director of Unum in the UK - as their head of medical services in the UK. The CEO of Maximus in the UK has also said that all the Atos staff working on DWP assessments will be employed by Maximus, the Atos assessment centres will be taken over by Maximus.......basically, it's all pretty much the same.

However Sue intends to "improve the customer journey" or whatever blue-sky-thinking-management-speak-bollocks is the order of the day, she cannot do what needs to be done - ie. she cannot influence or change the WCA itself, the draconian rules, the ridiculous descriptors, the targets imposed on the assessors, or the stupidity of DWP decision makers. It's the WCA that has to change, not who delivers it.

I have every expectation that she will be required to adhere to the company line and will be expected to sign some sort of gagging contract.
I suspect that this appointment is a cynical move by Maximus to pretend that they care about sick and disabled people, and by placing a well-known campaigner on these issues in this job they probably think that people like me are reassured.

Well, I'm not reassured. I think Sue may well lose a lot of respect for this - I'm certainly not convinced by her arguments, though I appreciate that she has every right to believe otherwise.
Of course she will be paid a substantial salary, and that must always be a consideration for anyone with a family; but her role will be to research "customer experience" and suggest improvements (as the job description says) and for the life of me I cannot see how that squares with all her previous campaigning.

I feel we have lost a powerful voice - time will tell.
I have mixed feelings to be honest, i was a bit taken aback when she first announced it this morning.She does have a huge online presence, and she also does have some important government contacts in her address book, she can only work within the boundaries and framework of what the assessment is. The WCA is the WCA is the WCA, the qualifying criteria or the 'descriptors' are set by the DWP.
On one hand I fear she will be constrained, and frustrated because of this, the department didn't listen to the Professor Harrington, in fact Grayling when he was IDS' understudy actually lied about the advice given and rolled it out from a pilot scheme for new applicants into a full blown monstrosity effecting millions of people.
The original, perhaps biggest petition against the WCA of recent years - the WOW petition started out as Pat Onions petition, we didn't even get the required amount of signatures in a year despite a heavy campaign, until it was relaunched for a second year by Francesca Martinez, even then after the debate that it triggered nothing much has changed.
Only the other day Samuel Miller tweeted 'This campaign is too reliant on social media and ends up preaching to the converted' which made me ponder a bit, I began to think that maybe we have gone as far as we can, and now in a bit of a rut or dead end do we we need a new approach ?
Maybe Maximus are thinking along the lines of Lyndon B Johnson when he said "Better to have your enemies inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in" but I don't think Sue is that gullible, she might make just that bit of difference especially if we do get a change of government in May, alongside the announcements on the WCA which Reeves has made.
Sue sure knows her stuff, my only concern is would it still be possible to have someone with her high profile working for the company performing the WCA while at the same time being a thorn in the side of whichever minister or secretary of state is going to ultimately be running the show. I don't think she has gone over to the dark side just yet, but she might find her hands are now tied.

"Only the other day Samuel Miller tweeted 'This campaign is too reliant on social media and ends up preaching to the converted' which made me ponder a bit, I began to think that maybe we have gone as far as we can, and now in a bit of a rut or dead end do we we need a new approach ?"

That's why I've been asking people on and off to post links to FTN on other sites (as well as our general URL). Same rule applies: unless our voices and principles are read outside of this site, then we're having a nice chat with ourselves. It's also why I'm very happy to see FTN tweets sent out to the great and good (on both sides) with pithy comments and link back to FTN. Remember, even that little shit stirrer and Tory apologist Stained started with a site with no readers.

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 5:32 pm

Re Sue Marsh - I posted this on johnny voids comments and am also copy-pasting it here
You know what came to my mind? At some point suey is going to have a long hospital stay due to her condition – at which point will maximus ‘sadly let her go’…. leaving her back on benefits, even less likely to get them (but you can work ‘some of the time’ like you did for maximus), and without the credibility as a campaigner that shes had up till now

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 5:41 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
Toby Latimer wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Re. Sue Marsh.

I've read her blogpost about her new job. I'm not sure what to think about this, frankly.

Maximus are not a nice company. Their record in the US shows that. They have also somehow finagled a deal that involves about £100 Million more a year than Atos got for the WCA - and Atos itself has a new £10 Million contract to supply the IT for Maximus (which I believe is due to the fact that they own or lease the LIMA software from Unum)

Maximus have also appointed Mike O'Donnell - previous medical director of Atos and before that clinical director of Unum in the UK - as their head of medical services in the UK. The CEO of Maximus in the UK has also said that all the Atos staff working on DWP assessments will be employed by Maximus, the Atos assessment centres will be taken over by Maximus.......basically, it's all pretty much the same.

However Sue intends to "improve the customer journey" or whatever blue-sky-thinking-management-speak-bollocks is the order of the day, she cannot do what needs to be done - ie. she cannot influence or change the WCA itself, the draconian rules, the ridiculous descriptors, the targets imposed on the assessors, or the stupidity of DWP decision makers. It's the WCA that has to change, not who delivers it.

I have every expectation that she will be required to adhere to the company line and will be expected to sign some sort of gagging contract.
I suspect that this appointment is a cynical move by Maximus to pretend that they care about sick and disabled people, and by placing a well-known campaigner on these issues in this job they probably think that people like me are reassured.

Well, I'm not reassured. I think Sue may well lose a lot of respect for this - I'm certainly not convinced by her arguments, though I appreciate that she has every right to believe otherwise.
Of course she will be paid a substantial salary, and that must always be a consideration for anyone with a family; but her role will be to research "customer experience" and suggest improvements (as the job description says) and for the life of me I cannot see how that squares with all her previous campaigning.

I feel we have lost a powerful voice - time will tell.
I have mixed feelings to be honest, i was a bit taken aback when she first announced it this morning.She does have a huge online presence, and she also does have some important government contacts in her address book, she can only work within the boundaries and framework of what the assessment is. The WCA is the WCA is the WCA, the qualifying criteria or the 'descriptors' are set by the DWP.
On one hand I fear she will be constrained, and frustrated because of this, the department didn't listen to the Professor Harrington, in fact Grayling when he was IDS' understudy actually lied about the advice given and rolled it out from a pilot scheme for new applicants into a full blown monstrosity effecting millions of people.
The original, perhaps biggest petition against the WCA of recent years - the WOW petition started out as Pat Onions petition, we didn't even get the required amount of signatures in a year despite a heavy campaign, until it was relaunched for a second year by Francesca Martinez, even then after the debate that it triggered nothing much has changed.
Only the other day Samuel Miller tweeted 'This campaign is too reliant on social media and ends up preaching to the converted' which made me ponder a bit, I began to think that maybe we have gone as far as we can, and now in a bit of a rut or dead end do we we need a new approach ?
Maybe Maximus are thinking along the lines of Lyndon B Johnson when he said "Better to have your enemies inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in" but I don't think Sue is that gullible, she might make just that bit of difference especially if we do get a change of government in May, alongside the announcements on the WCA which Reeves has made.
Sue sure knows her stuff, my only concern is would it still be possible to have someone with her high profile working for the company performing the WCA while at the same time being a thorn in the side of whichever minister or secretary of state is going to ultimately be running the show. I don't think she has gone over to the dark side just yet, but she might find her hands are now tied.
"Only the other day Samuel Miller tweeted 'This campaign is too reliant on social media and ends up preaching to the converted' which made me ponder a bit, I began to think that maybe we have gone as far as we can, and now in a bit of a rut or dead end do we we need a new approach ?"

That's why I've been asking people on and off to post links to FTN on other sites (as well as our general URL). Same rule applies: unless our voices and principles are read outside of this site, then we're having a nice chat with ourselves. It's also why I'm very happy to see FTN tweets sent out to the great and good (on both sides) with pithy comments and link back to FTN. Remember, even that little shit stirrer and Tory apologist Stained started with a site with no readers.

I think there have been real time disabled activists out there doing their best with live actions of all kinds for a few years, and the social media end is for those who cannot for whatever reasons be out there.

In terms of FTN whatever it takes, I guess. I asked yesterday about how many here will be invoked in the doorstep conversations the LP has posted about, which it would be interesting to hear about. I'm sure there will be some here doing this and are already. We get no real clue from the media about real people, and indeed online groups mostly come together around shared values of some kind.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 5:52 pm

Sadly, very sadly - it seems that 4 hostages were killed in the supermarket seige in Paris. At present the reports seem to say they were killed before the police / security forces stormed the building.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 5:57 pm

Battle with GPs led to Circle’s retreat from Hinchingbrooke hospital
Contract began with high hopes and company claimed small successes, but it became clear things were not going to plan
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... e-hospital

At the heart of this was an unseen battle between local GPs and the hospital over who should profit from patients. In the new NHS structure, family doctors were meant to pay Hinchingbrooke for every patient they sent there – and with money tight, GPs saw their budgets being drained to fund the hospital.

Worse was that Circle aimed to make profits, even if it meant GPs sitting on losses. Last March when the hospital looked as if it would finally break even, GPs in the area initially slapped a £5m fine on the hospital for “poor performance”. After much wrangling this was lowered to about £1m. But a company aiming to make money from a hospital with a £100m budget could not continue to risk having its profits siphoned off by GPs.

None of this should have surprised anybody. Andrew Lansley, the then health secretary, was a local MP and well aware of the perils of pitting doctor against doctor. Unhelpfully, he removed a layer of NHS management that specifically managed these local turf wars.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 5:59 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Jamie Reed retweeted
David Singleton ‏@singersz 3h3 hours ago
Excl: Cameron’s former chief of staff predicts Tories will lose election due to "collapse" in grassroots support http://polho.me/1BTzyJL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Probably accurate that. Locally, the lack of Tory canvassers is palpable, and so Tory central office are pouring a lot of money in round here to protect David Nuttall. I suspect it's wasted money.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 6:00 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -of-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bedblocking-social-care-policy-profits-ahead-of-people

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 6:05 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Sadly, very sadly - it seems that 4 hostages were killed in the supermarket seige in Paris. At present the reports seem to say they were killed before the police / security forces stormed the building.

One of the reports said the hostages at the supermarket were killed earlier in the day, not at the end of the seige.
Can't remember which/where I saw or heard it.

Seen some pretty stupid stuff on Twitter, anti-semites crawling out of their holes.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 6:06 pm

thatchersorphan wrote:Re Sue Marsh - I posted this on johnny voids comments and am also copy-pasting it here
You know what came to my mind? At some point suey is going to have a long hospital stay due to her condition – at which point will maximus ‘sadly let her go’…. leaving her back on benefits, even less likely to get them (but you can work ‘some of the time’ like you did for maximus), and without the credibility as a campaigner that shes had up till now

Welcome TO!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 6:07 pm

VINCE CABLE COUP EXCUSE: ‘I WAS USING MY WIFE’S EMAIL ADDRESS’
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2015/01/v ... l-address/

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 6:20 pm

ITV News ‏@itvnews 7m7 minutes ago
David Cameron accused of snubbing young voters after 'pulling out' of #LeadersLive debate http://www.itv.com/news/2015-01-09/prim ... ve-debate/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Bite The Ballot accused Mr Cameron of "pulling out" of the event and has started an online campaign using the #WeWantMore hashtag.

ITV News understands that Downing Street is now considering whether Mr Cameron could fit in the debate on an alternative date.

Really?

Why am I not convinced? I would so like to see Empty having to face the panel of young people ... they won't let him get away with the waffle non answers he trots out to everyone else.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 6:30 pm

@ Paul

Tried sending you a PM but it's not showing as either being in my Outbox nor as having been Sent.

Did you receive it ?

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 6:46 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
thatchersorphan wrote:Re Sue Marsh - I posted this on johnny voids comments and am also copy-pasting it here
You know what came to my mind? At some point suey is going to have a long hospital stay due to her condition – at which point will maximus ‘sadly let her go’…. leaving her back on benefits, even less likely to get them (but you can work ‘some of the time’ like you did for maximus), and without the credibility as a campaigner that shes had up till now
Welcome TO!

Thanks Ernst, but I'm not new to FTN, I sometimes posted on the old site. I'll be (mostly lurking) here more often again now - been doing ptsd therapy for a year which has taken most of my mental resources to cope with, but thats finished now (sadly while it helped a lot with the ptsd its not helped my depression, or got rid of my physical problems - or the stress caused by DWP, atos etc)

I checked the members list and noticed rednorth isn't on it, I know he follows some of the people here on twitter - am wondering if he knows about this site?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 6:47 pm

pk1 wrote:@ Paul

Tried sending you a PM but it's not showing as either being in my Outbox nor as having been Sent.

Did you receive it ?

No! Sorry….

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 7:07 pm

Angela Eagle ‏@angelaeagle 13m13 minutes ago
RT.“@GuidoFawkes: Electoral Commission letter to bloggers in full [PDF] http://guyfawk.es/1BVJx1j" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ” Coalition MPs voted for it Lab will repeal

This letter has been sent to many political blogging sites including Guido Fawkes, Labourlist, Lib Dem Voice and others ... pointing out how they will be affected by the gagging bill in the run up to this election.

What a wonderful government this is - has been. I want to boot it up the arse so hard it will enter and disappear into the stratosphere ...

Please let's get them out on May 7th.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 7:21 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:And now they say the supermarket hostage-taker is 'neutralised,' which usually means dead...

Unrelated, please friends, hold my father in hour thoughts as he faces a crisis. Terry in Medway for anyone who thinks in terms of healing energy. Thanks guys. I love you all xxx

Re, "Unrelated" - will do. And while he faces his crisis, have a bit of metta yourself (that's loving kindness, for the non-Buddhists)

I'm not a Buddhist, but a close friend of mine is, and has taught me many things including a "mindfulness" way of coping with things.
I'm finding it very useful in my loss of my darling sponsor.

You and Terry will be in my thoughts and meditations, LC.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 7:23 pm

Pamela Nash MP retweeted
BBC Newsbeat ‏@BBCNewsbeat 11m11 minutes ago
Hacking group Anonymous says it'll shut down jihadist websites in revenge for French attacks. http://bbc.in/1IxShg3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 7:40 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Pamela Nash MP retweeted
BBC Newsbeat ‏@BBCNewsbeat 11m11 minutes ago
Hacking group Anonymous says it'll shut down jihadist websites in revenge for French attacks. http://bbc.in/1IxShg3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Which leads me to wonder why the various governments waging a 'war on terror' haven't already done so

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 7:47 pm

Toby Latimer wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Pamela Nash MP retweeted
BBC Newsbeat ‏@BBCNewsbeat 11m11 minutes ago
Hacking group Anonymous says it'll shut down jihadist websites in revenge for French attacks. http://bbc.in/1IxShg3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Which leads me to wonder why the various governments waging a 'war on terror' haven't already done so

Good question Toby. Probably for a range of reasons - lack of equivalent capability to Anonymous (guessing they have people literally doing their thing 24/7) - they're using these sites themselves for intelligence / surveillance - they might actually be contravening various national / international laws etc but not sure that they'd care about that anyway.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 7:49 pm

ARTIST TAXI DRIVER @chunkymark · 41m 41 minutes ago
Just in case you are unaware..
Tory MP @MarkJSimmonds is paid £50k pa by Circle Health for 10 hours 'work' per month. #Hinchingbrooke

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 7:55 pm

More thoughts on the WCA - and Sue Marsh and on the sort of job she thinks she'll be doing.....

On the basis that you can't make a pig look good by putting lipstick on it, eveb someone as able as Sue can't make the WCA fit for purpose.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - it really would not be that hard to scrap ESA, put claimants back on IB for now while the systems are still live, bring IB assessments back in house, then sit down and thrash out how to sort it all out in the longer term.

I never did get a response from the Labour "Your Britain" consultation - and that's because Labour will not get rid of ESA as it's their baby.
It would involve a climbdown of epic proportions to do that, and I doubt they are capable of it.

I'm aware that sickness benefits are not something that pre-occupies most people, as the majority are not likely to need them, ever. However, it is in everyone's interests that our social security is delivered by people who have a public service ethos, as with the NHS - otherwise, there is a lack of accountability and a prfit-seeking agenda, however cleverly it might be disguised.

The same company taking over from Atos (with the same head, the same staff, the same assessment centres, the same targets, etc) already have various Work Programme contracts, many occupational health deals with employers, and the Health and Work Service (which is a government initiative which aims to get employees off sick back to work sooner by assessing them over the phone) is run by one of Maximus' subsidiaries and Maximus are a massive corporation with a very chequered record in the US.

Big corporates are very skilled at presenting a public image - Sue Marsh was, she says, approached and asked to do this job - and Maximus will have done that because they want credibility and manifestly believe that she has it.
Until today, she did; what bothers me most about this is that it seems Maximus (and thus DWP) will do whatever it takes to get that credibility, in the same way Capita did by having Stephen Duckworth leading their PIP contract.

What they are doing is buying credibility, and it won't work. As long as the WCA remains the stupid and vicious assessment it is, and ESA remains a benefit based on a warped model, no amount of minor cosmetic improvements or making the "customer journey" a bit more comfortable will change anything - and the only thing that today's events have shown is that some people are either very naive or really can be bought.

I have long admired what Sue Marsh has been doing, especially while so very ill - but to go from doughty campaigner with a serious illness to a full-time employee in a very high-profile and high-pressure job stretches the imagination somewhat.
Many of the people commenting on this today have wondered how she can go from fighting hard to get a Support Group allocation to a full-time job; others are saying that her example here will make life much harder for the rest of us.

As she has Tweeted today, she has worked so so hard for us for a very very long time - I think she deserves a break. But to seriously pretend that she can change anything from within is disingenuous at best, and I am unconvinced by her justification.
If Maximus offered me a big salary to do this, would I? I like to think I'd stick to my principles and refuse - but then, I don't have a young husband and a family who have been through the wringer and whose lives I can make better by earning a lot of money.

I think she should stop blogging now. She has done some sterling work, and I am grateful for that - but she's a corporate employee now, and that's where her loyalty must lie. As she says herself, she will "give Maximus 300%".

I feel like I've lost a friend. I certainly think many others feel that way.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 7:58 pm

thatchersorphan wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
thatchersorphan wrote:Re Sue Marsh - I posted this on johnny voids comments and am also copy-pasting it here
You know what came to my mind? At some point suey is going to have a long hospital stay due to her condition – at which point will maximus ‘sadly let her go’…. leaving her back on benefits, even less likely to get them (but you can work ‘some of the time’ like you did for maximus), and without the credibility as a campaigner that shes had up till now
Welcome TO!

Thanks Ernst, but I'm not new to FTN, I sometimes posted on the old site. I'll be (mostly lurking) here more often again now - been doing ptsd therapy for a year which has taken most of my mental resources to cope with, but thats finished now (sadly while it helped a lot with the ptsd its not helped my depression, or got rid of my physical problems - or the stress caused by DWP, atos etc)

I checked the members list and noticed rednorth isn't on it, I know he follows some of the people here on twitter - am wondering if he knows about this site?

You're very welcome. If you've got PTSD, can I ask if it's anything to do with the armed forces? MsRemarx has a union colleague who was in the SBS and served in Iraq, and, unsurprisingly, suffers from the same. There's a body who help ex-service people and who've helped him a lot, so if it's due to that PM me and I'll send you details.

Nice to see you here, and to all you FTNers - tweet our address! Now!

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 8:01 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Pamela Nash MP retweeted
BBC Newsbeat ‏@BBCNewsbeat 11m11 minutes ago
Hacking group Anonymous says it'll shut down jihadist websites in revenge for French attacks. http://bbc.in/1IxShg3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cool. I hope they do it. If the anger of ordinary people is channelled in non-violent, effective and creative way, there is nothing that cannot be achieved.

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 8:17 pm

ephemerid wrote:More thoughts on the WCA - and Sue Marsh and on the sort of job she thinks she'll be doing.....

On the basis that you can't make a pig look good by putting lipstick on it, eveb someone as able as Sue can't make the WCA fit for purpose.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - it really would not be that hard to scrap ESA, put claimants back on IB for now while the systems are still live, bring IB assessments back in house, then sit down and thrash out how to sort it all out in the longer term.

I never did get a response from the Labour "Your Britain" consultation - and that's because Labour will not get rid of ESA as it's their baby.
It would involve a climbdown of epic proportions to do that, and I doubt they are capable of it.

I'm aware that sickness benefits are not something that pre-occupies most people, as the majority are not likely to need them, ever. However, it is in everyone's interests that our social security is delivered by people who have a public service ethos, as with the NHS - otherwise, there is a lack of accountability and a prfit-seeking agenda, however cleverly it might be disguised.

The same company taking over from Atos (with the same head, the same staff, the same assessment centres, the same targets, etc) already have various Work Programme contracts, many occupational health deals with employers, and the Health and Work Service (which is a government initiative which aims to get employees off sick back to work sooner by assessing them over the phone) is run by one of Maximus' subsidiaries and Maximus are a massive corporation with a very chequered record in the US.

Big corporates are very skilled at presenting a public image - Sue Marsh was, she says, approached and asked to do this job - and Maximus will have done that because they want credibility and manifestly believe that she has it.
Until today, she did; what bothers me most about this is that it seems Maximus (and thus DWP) will do whatever it takes to get that credibility, in the same way Capita did by having Stephen Duckworth leading their PIP contract.

What they are doing is buying credibility, and it won't work. As long as the WCA remains the stupid and vicious assessment it is, and ESA remains a benefit based on a warped model, no amount of minor cosmetic improvements or making the "customer journey" a bit more comfortable will change anything - and the only thing that today's events have shown is that some people are either very naive or really can be bought.

I have long admired what Sue Marsh has been doing, especially while so very ill - but to go from doughty campaigner with a serious illness to a full-time employee in a very high-profile and high-pressure job stretches the imagination somewhat.
Many of the people commenting on this today have wondered how she can go from fighting hard to get a Support Group allocation to a full-time job; others are saying that her example here will make life much harder for the rest of us.

As she has Tweeted today, she has worked so so hard for us for a very very long time - I think she deserves a break. But to seriously pretend that she can change anything from within is disingenuous at best, and I am unconvinced by her justification.
If Maximus offered me a big salary to do this, would I? I like to think I'd stick to my principles and refuse - but then, I don't have a young husband and a family who have been through the wringer and whose lives I can make better by earning a lot of money.

I think she should stop blogging now. She has done some sterling work, and I am grateful for that - but she's a corporate employee now, and that's where her loyalty must lie. As she says herself, she will "give Maximus 300%".

I feel like I've lost a friend. I certainly think many others feel that way.

She has done a lot considering the personal circumstances, she might have been worn down with her illness added with tireless campaigning, she's only human after all.
I feel a lot of the vitriol being foisted on her on her blog is quite uncalled for, at worst she could be called naive but some of the stuff i read today is beyond the pale.
She might be working from the comfort of home, with her laptop - she alone knows the details, and as yet she hasn't replied to ppl asking if she has a gagging clause. The salary is enormous for someone previously on ESA, I don't know if i could honestly turn that sort of money down either, she only has to work there for four or five years to be made up for life. I said earlier that it might not end well, but i suppose the bank balance will cushion the hurtful comments.
As far as her work goes, it may be Rachel Reeves as sec of state in a few months, I'm sure Sue could have made much more difference staying 'onside' and carrying on doing as she has with a change of government.
The deeper i think about it the more puzzling it gets.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 8:18 pm

ephemerid wrote:More thoughts on the WCA - and Sue Marsh and on the sort of job she thinks she'll be doing.....

On the basis that you can't make a pig look good by putting lipstick on it, eveb someone as able as Sue can't make the WCA fit for purpose.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - it really would not be that hard to scrap ESA, put claimants back on IB for now while the systems are still live, bring IB assessments back in house, then sit down and thrash out how to sort it all out in the longer term.

I never did get a response from the Labour "Your Britain" consultation - and that's because Labour will not get rid of ESA as it's their baby.
It would involve a climbdown of epic proportions to do that, and I doubt they are capable of it.

I'm aware that sickness benefits are not something that pre-occupies most people, as the majority are not likely to need them, ever. However, it is in everyone's interests that our social security is delivered by people who have a public service ethos, as with the NHS - otherwise, there is a lack of accountability and a prfit-seeking agenda, however cleverly it might be disguised.

The same company taking over from Atos (with the same head, the same staff, the same assessment centres, the same targets, etc) already have various Work Programme contracts, many occupational health deals with employers, and the Health and Work Service (which is a government initiative which aims to get employees off sick back to work sooner by assessing them over the phone) is run by one of Maximus' subsidiaries and Maximus are a massive corporation with a very chequered record in the US.

Big corporates are very skilled at presenting a public image - Sue Marsh was, she says, approached and asked to do this job - and Maximus will have done that because they want credibility and manifestly believe that she has it.
Until today, she did; what bothers me most about this is that it seems Maximus (and thus DWP) will do whatever it takes to get that credibility, in the same way Capita did by having Stephen Duckworth leading their PIP contract.

What they are doing is buying credibility, and it won't work. As long as the WCA remains the stupid and vicious assessment it is, and ESA remains a benefit based on a warped model, no amount of minor cosmetic improvements or making the "customer journey" a bit more comfortable will change anything - and the only thing that today's events have shown is that some people are either very naive or really can be bought.

I have long admired what Sue Marsh has been doing, especially while so very ill - but to go from doughty campaigner with a serious illness to a full-time employee in a very high-profile and high-pressure job stretches the imagination somewhat.
Many of the people commenting on this today have wondered how she can go from fighting hard to get a Support Group allocation to a full-time job; others are saying that her example here will make life much harder for the rest of us.

As she has Tweeted today, she has worked so so hard for us for a very very long time - I think she deserves a break. But to seriously pretend that she can change anything from within is disingenuous at best, and I am unconvinced by her justification.
If Maximus offered me a big salary to do this, would I? I like to think I'd stick to my principles and refuse - but then, I don't have a young husband and a family who have been through the wringer and whose lives I can make better by earning a lot of money.

I think she should stop blogging now. She has done some sterling work, and I am grateful for that - but she's a corporate employee now, and that's where her loyalty must lie. As she says herself, she will "give Maximus 300%".

I feel like I've lost a friend. I certainly think many others feel that way.

Digging deep into my conscience and putting myself in her position, I confess I'd not be able to turn down such a fantastic wage. I'd have to give it a go. Such chances don't come your way very often if at all. Even if she only managed a couple of years before the crap got too much or she couldn't physically cope, the money will make a huge difference to their lives

Somewhere I read that you can't eat principles and they don't fit your children's feet. Sad, but true.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 8:20 pm

Oborne on the debates. ☺
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... bluff.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 8:21 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Pamela Nash MP retweeted
BBC Newsbeat ‏@BBCNewsbeat 11m11 minutes ago
Hacking group Anonymous says it'll shut down jihadist websites in revenge for French attacks. http://bbc.in/1IxShg3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Cool. I hope they do it. If the anger of ordinary people is channelled in non-violent, effective and creative way, there is nothing that cannot be achieved.

Not so sure myself. RR2 listed a number of possible reasons as to why this has not been done by security agencies like the CIA, and her second reason stands out; it was something I said a few times over at the Graun, in discussions about the likes of Abu Qatada - you don't need to worry about the ones making all the noise and, in any case, it is helps to hear what they are saying. Shutting down these websites won't stop the real extremists, as they aren't using them, but it could force the more manageable ones underground and create a bigger problem.

But, hey, what do I know. That was probably a load of old bilge, so best ignore it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 8:24 pm

Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 2h 2 hours ago
Govt regulating blogs? We’ll be writing, reporting and commenting on the election campaign as we see fit http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/guidofaw ... 7N9W69wis/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 8:34 pm

James O'Brien @mrjamesob · Jan 8
Must have been a different Farage who said freedom of expression 'line' was 'crossed' by game where N Fromage kicked immigrants off a cliff!

James O'Brien retweeted
Frankie Boyle @frankieboyle · Jan 8
I'm reading a defence of free speech in a paper that tried to have me arrested and charged with obscenity for making a joke about the Queen

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 8:48 pm

ephemerid wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:And now they say the supermarket hostage-taker is 'neutralised,' which usually means dead...

Unrelated, please friends, hold my father in hour thoughts as he faces a crisis. Terry in Medway for anyone who thinks in terms of healing energy. Thanks guys. I love you all xxx

Re, "Unrelated" - will do. And while he faces his crisis, have a bit of metta yourself (that's loving kindness, for the non-Buddhists)

I'm not a Buddhist, but a close friend of mine is, and has taught me many things including a "mindfulness" way of coping with things.
I'm finding it very useful in my loss of my darling sponsor.

You and Terry will be in my thoughts and meditations, LC.

Thank you, @ephe, m'darling. Metta I understand and reciprocate. My father and I are closer to Buddhism than to any other philosophy ~ pretty much tying with a range of eastern, western, and self-developed (still developing) philosophies and the occasional semi-superstition

Love, laugh, let lifeforms and the element be what they are. x

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 8:51 pm

Toby Latimer wrote:
ephemerid wrote:More thoughts on the WCA - and Sue Marsh and on the sort of job she thinks she'll be doing.....

On the basis that you can't make a pig look good by putting lipstick on it, eveb someone as able as Sue can't make the WCA fit for purpose.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - it really would not be that hard to scrap ESA, put claimants back on IB for now while the systems are still live, bring IB assessments back in house, then sit down and thrash out how to sort it all out in the longer term.

I never did get a response from the Labour "Your Britain" consultation - and that's because Labour will not get rid of ESA as it's their baby.
It would involve a climbdown of epic proportions to do that, and I doubt they are capable of it.

I'm aware that sickness benefits are not something that pre-occupies most people, as the majority are not likely to need them, ever. However, it is in everyone's interests that our social security is delivered by people who have a public service ethos, as with the NHS - otherwise, there is a lack of accountability and a prfit-seeking agenda, however cleverly it might be disguised.

The same company taking over from Atos (with the same head, the same staff, the same assessment centres, the same targets, etc) already have various Work Programme contracts, many occupational health deals with employers, and the Health and Work Service (which is a government initiative which aims to get employees off sick back to work sooner by assessing them over the phone) is run by one of Maximus' subsidiaries and Maximus are a massive corporation with a very chequered record in the US.

Big corporates are very skilled at presenting a public image - Sue Marsh was, she says, approached and asked to do this job - and Maximus will have done that because they want credibility and manifestly believe that she has it.
Until today, she did; what bothers me most about this is that it seems Maximus (and thus DWP) will do whatever it takes to get that credibility, in the same way Capita did by having Stephen Duckworth leading their PIP contract.

What they are doing is buying credibility, and it won't work. As long as the WCA remains the stupid and vicious assessment it is, and ESA remains a benefit based on a warped model, no amount of minor cosmetic improvements or making the "customer journey" a bit more comfortable will change anything - and the only thing that today's events have shown is that some people are either very naive or really can be bought.

I have long admired what Sue Marsh has been doing, especially while so very ill - but to go from doughty campaigner with a serious illness to a full-time employee in a very high-profile and high-pressure job stretches the imagination somewhat.
Many of the people commenting on this today have wondered how she can go from fighting hard to get a Support Group allocation to a full-time job; others are saying that her example here will make life much harder for the rest of us.

As she has Tweeted today, she has worked so so hard for us for a very very long time - I think she deserves a break. But to seriously pretend that she can change anything from within is disingenuous at best, and I am unconvinced by her justification.
If Maximus offered me a big salary to do this, would I? I like to think I'd stick to my principles and refuse - but then, I don't have a young husband and a family who have been through the wringer and whose lives I can make better by earning a lot of money.

I think she should stop blogging now. She has done some sterling work, and I am grateful for that - but she's a corporate employee now, and that's where her loyalty must lie. As she says herself, she will "give Maximus 300%".

I feel like I've lost a friend. I certainly think many others feel that way.
She has done a lot considering the personal circumstances, she might have been worn down with her illness added with tireless campaigning, she's only human after all.
I feel a lot of the vitriol being foisted on her on her blog is quite uncalled for, at worst she could be called naive but some of the stuff i read today is beyond the pale.
She might be working from the comfort of home, with her laptop - she alone knows the details, and as yet she hasn't replied to ppl asking if she has a gagging clause. The salary is enormous for someone previously on ESA, I don't know if i could honestly turn that sort of money down either, she only has to work there for four or five years to be made up for life. I said earlier that it might not end well, but i suppose the bank balance will cushion the hurtful comments.
As far as her work goes, it may be Rachel Reeves as sec of state in a few months, I'm sure Sue could have made much more difference staying 'onside' and carrying on doing as she has with a change of government.
The deeper i think about it the more puzzling it gets.

The vitriol has been dismaying, but the sense of disillusion understandable. Spartacus never was the result of one person's work, but the work of many.

The DNS report is puzzling to me, Maximus takes over at the beginning of March, and they don't look different enough from ATOS for much comfort to be taken in the change, and meanwhile the latter will still be there intruding on lives through PIP. Harrington,as I recall, recommended that WCA wasn't fit for purpose, and should go. If I'm wrong please correct me. SM taking this job seems a bit like capitulation to me. I wondered briefly what she might know that we don't. But still can't see her having the effect she describes on WCA reported by DNS.

I'm with Ephemerid and have been for yonks on reverting to IB, it was much saner.

There's a lot more that campaigners are trying to accomplish. Sue did some excellent work, but she's one person, and from all accounts not very well. Everything will move on, and I feel a little concerned for her. She seems in a lonely position tonight, but I guess she knew what she was doing.

Claimants on the other hand are in the same mess. In a sane world Labour would cut any saving face losses and scrap WCA, simply because it would be the right thing to do.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 9:05 pm

Tory response to NHS crisis? Cut unsocial hours payments to NHS staff. Yep that'll really help fill those vacancies in A&E for the night shift.

NHS staff ‘unsocial hours’ payments under threat
Department of Health proposes radical cost-cutting changes to shift-patterns of staff in England

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... th-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Options outlined by the department include removing unsocial hours payments for working on Saturdays and Sundays; only axing those for working Saturdays; lowering rates for Sundays and bank holidays; changing night-shift starts from 8pm to 10pm; and “rewarding” staff for flexibility in working hours, perhaps along the lines of the AA, where pay levels reflect how readily staff are prepared to work any shift within a 24-hour period.

Changes also need to be made in the way staff move up pay scales to make them “more affordable”, the department says.

Unison, the public services trade union, suggested the proposals could be “the final straw” in retaining, let alone recruiting, staff.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 9:12 pm

The Guardian view on Circle and Hinchingbrooke: a failure that casts a shadow over the whole Tory agenda
Withdrawal from the contract coincides with the worst recorded figures for accident and emergency
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ory-agenda

The second point is that it is a political catastrophe for the Conservatives – although the process of privatisation began on Labour’s watch – all the worse for coinciding with ever grimmer news on waiting times at accident and emergency departments in England. The cost and disruption of the Lansley reforms must bear some responsibility for the worst winter crisis ever. Hinchingbrooke’s failure surely torpedoes any immediate prospects of a big expansion of privatisation. It looks like a clear victory for all those who have repeatedly warned that privatisation and profits are incompatible with a free, universal healthcare system. It could be Tweeted as Goldman Sachs (training ground of Ali Parsa, Circle’s former chief executive), nil, NHS, one.

Isn't it incredible the Guardian view seems to have completely forgotten about and left out the Lib Dems role in producing and delivering the Health & Social Care Act and reforms that have brought this 'catastrophe' about. You know the thing that Nick Clegg signed off and wrote the foreword to - and the Lib Dems enabled through both houses.

Where is Shirley Williams now the shit has hit the fan? Hasn't she got some wonderful comforting motherhood and apple pie remarks to make on this - assuring us that all will be well because she says so and that smell really isn't what we think it is?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 9:14 pm

Ken
http://labourlist.org/2015/01/the-mansi ... -politics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

' We were able to make the case for Crossrail and other big investments in London on a progressive basis that included London paying its fair share. London contributes to Britain through its economic dynamism, including to the tax take in the economy, which can then be redistributed within London and to Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and the other regions of England. In fact we argued for investment in London like Crossrail to make sure London continues to pay its way in the long-term. To sustain its dynamism we need the modern infrastructure to plan for the future. At no point did we argue that London should not pay its way, nor should we. It is not anti-London for London to contribute to Britain. It is fair.'

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 9:14 pm

Spacedone wrote:Tory response to NHS crisis? Cut unsocial hours payments to NHS staff. Yep that'll really help fill those vacancies in A&E for the night shift.

NHS staff ‘unsocial hours’ payments under threat
Department of Health proposes radical cost-cutting changes to shift-patterns of staff in England

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... th-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Options outlined by the department include removing unsocial hours payments for working on Saturdays and Sundays; only axing those for working Saturdays; lowering rates for Sundays and bank holidays; changing night-shift starts from 8pm to 10pm; and “rewarding” staff for flexibility in working hours, perhaps along the lines of the AA, where pay levels reflect how readily staff are prepared to work any shift within a 24-hour period.

Changes also need to be made in the way staff move up pay scales to make them “more affordable”, the department says.

Unison, the public services trade union, suggested the proposals could be “the final straw” in retaining, let alone recruiting, staff.

And then the DoH will wonder why even more of their trained staff up sticks and go to another country ... where the pay is better and the living much easier ... and the problems escalate even more here.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 9:18 pm

Otto English @Otto_English · 3h 3 hours ago
UKIP's Victoria Ayling is on #bbcaq tonight. She used to be in the National Front. So I'm sure she'll offer a measured response to events.

She was dreadful. Embarrassing.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 9:25 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Otto English @Otto_English · 3h 3 hours ago
UKIP's Victoria Ayling is on #bbcaq tonight. She used to be in the National Front. So I'm sure she'll offer a measured response to events.
She was dreadful. Embarrassing.

But at least she didn't used to be in the BNP. Ukip don't allow them.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 9:25 pm

Spacedone wrote:Tory response to NHS crisis? Cut unsocial hours payments to NHS staff. Yep that'll really help fill those vacancies in A&E for the night shift.

NHS staff ‘unsocial hours’ payments under threat
Department of Health proposes radical cost-cutting changes to shift-patterns of staff in England

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... th-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Options outlined by the department include removing unsocial hours payments for working on Saturdays and Sundays; only axing those for working Saturdays; lowering rates for Sundays and bank holidays; changing night-shift starts from 8pm to 10pm; and “rewarding” staff for flexibility in working hours, perhaps along the lines of the AA, where pay levels reflect how readily staff are prepared to work any shift within a 24-hour period.

Changes also need to be made in the way staff move up pay scales to make them “more affordable”, the department says.

Unison, the public services trade union, suggested the proposals could be “the final straw” in retaining, let alone recruiting, staff.

Well I'm sure that'll go down well...

I might be wrong but I didn't think you had the choice of whether you worked unsocial hours if you were on shifts.

My other half (working tonight as it happens) does one week of long days and one week of nights alternately - as far as I know she doesn't have a choice...and if that includes weekends then tough.

And what's with the change in the night shift start - that works OK right now from what I hear. I don't get it. It'll throw getting meals at home right out as normally after a night shift that's not followed by another one, she'll go to bed when she gets home and then up at lunchtime. If working 2 in a row then bed all day and eat at 5pm to go out at 5:30.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 9:35 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Ken
http://labourlist.org/2015/01/the-mansi ... -politics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

' We were able to make the case for Crossrail and other big investments in London on a progressive basis that included London paying its fair share. London contributes to Britain through its economic dynamism, including to the tax take in the economy, which can then be redistributed within London and to Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and the other regions of England. In fact we argued for investment in London like Crossrail to make sure London continues to pay its way in the long-term. To sustain its dynamism we need the modern infrastructure to plan for the future. At no point did we argue that London should not pay its way, nor should we. It is not anti-London for London to contribute to Britain. It is fair.'

Perhaps he could also have added:

David Lammy, Tessa Jowell, Dianne Abbot - fuck off and join the Tories you are an embarrassment to the Labour Party.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 9:43 pm

Why David Cameron Rejecting Election Debates Is a Totally Great Idea
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jack-bu ... _hp_ref=uk

Great piece.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 10:13 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
The Guardian view on Circle and Hinchingbrooke: a failure that casts a shadow over the whole Tory agenda
Withdrawal from the contract coincides with the worst recorded figures for accident and emergency
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ory-agenda

The second point is that it is a political catastrophe for the Conservatives – although the process of privatisation began on Labour’s watch – all the worse for coinciding with ever grimmer news on waiting times at accident and emergency departments in England. The cost and disruption of the Lansley reforms must bear some responsibility for the worst winter crisis ever. Hinchingbrooke’s failure surely torpedoes any immediate prospects of a big expansion of privatisation. It looks like a clear victory for all those who have repeatedly warned that privatisation and profits are incompatible with a free, universal healthcare system. It could be Tweeted as Goldman Sachs (training ground of Ali Parsa, Circle’s former chief executive), nil, NHS, one.

Isn't it incredible the Guardian view seems to have completely forgotten about and left out the Lib Dems role in producing and delivering the Health & Social Care Act and reforms that have brought this 'catastrophe' about. You know the thing that Nick Clegg signed off and wrote the foreword to - and the Lib Dems enabled through both houses.

Where is Shirley Williams now the shit has hit the fan? Hasn't she got some wonderful comforting motherhood and apple pie remarks to make on this - assuring us that all will be well because she says so and that smell really isn't what we think it is?

I wish your post was on hoardings around the country, brings back so much. And fighting to get this out to people who hadn't a clue. In person just a bag of old cliches. Apple pie? If only. MPs and Lord who talked about exaggeration! But never read anything.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 10:51 pm

Spacedone wrote:Tory response to NHS crisis? Cut unsocial hours payments to NHS staff. Yep that'll really help fill those vacancies in A&E for the night shift.

NHS staff ‘unsocial hours’ payments under threat
Department of Health proposes radical cost-cutting changes to shift-patterns of staff in England

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... th-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Options outlined by the department include removing unsocial hours payments for working on Saturdays and Sundays; only axing those for working Saturdays; lowering rates for Sundays and bank holidays; changing night-shift starts from 8pm to 10pm; and “rewarding” staff for flexibility in working hours, perhaps along the lines of the AA, where pay levels reflect how readily staff are prepared to work any shift within a 24-hour period.

Changes also need to be made in the way staff move up pay scales to make them “more affordable”, the department says.

Unison, the public services trade union, suggested the proposals could be “the final straw” in retaining, let alone recruiting, staff.

That's an awful lot of words to say "we're going to save money by cutting pay and conditions". Because of course there isn't any problem that can't be solved by paying people less, to do more, at increasingly unsocial times (sarcasm alert). I can't remember who it was now, but some medical professional or other said the way to solve the recruitment crisis in A&E was more annual leave to allow personnel who are expected to work all sorts of unsocial hours (and sometimes back to back shifts when it snows) to actually have a life and see their families....nice to see the DofH has taken on board this advice....and decided to do the exact opposite. It's almost as if they want to stuff up the NHS, isn't it?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 10:52 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Ken
http://labourlist.org/2015/01/the-mansi ... -politics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

' We were able to make the case for Crossrail and other big investments in London on a progressive basis that included London paying its fair share. London contributes to Britain through its economic dynamism, including to the tax take in the economy, which can then be redistributed within London and to Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and the other regions of England. In fact we argued for investment in London like Crossrail to make sure London continues to pay its way in the long-term. To sustain its dynamism we need the modern infrastructure to plan for the future. At no point did we argue that London should not pay its way, nor should we. It is not anti-London for London to contribute to Britain. It is fair.'
Perhaps he could also have added:

David Lammy, Tessa Jowell, Dianne Abbot - fuck off and join the Tories you are an embarrassment to the Labour Party.

It's good he didn't. It wouldn't have been appropriate given the topic was about Labour's Mansion Tax proposal & how much London would benefit from this redistributive tax measure. Thanks for the link. I like Ken Livingstone, good article.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 10:56 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
The Guardian view on Circle and Hinchingbrooke: a failure that casts a shadow over the whole Tory agenda
Withdrawal from the contract coincides with the worst recorded figures for accident and emergency
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ory-agenda

'Peter Guillam' is doing sterling work btl.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 10:59 pm

It occurred to me just now...that if they change the time of the night shift...then they've got to change the time of the day shift as well!

With a 12 hour shift, otherwise you'll get an overlap of 2 hours at one end a 2 hour gap at the other.

Post by **adam** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 11:06 pm

After seeing so many 'discussion' moments on news programs that are nothing but the TV equivalent of clickbait, lining up idiots to talk idiocy and ignore each other, the questions and anything other than what they've come to say anyway, I thought C4 news tonight's piece on censorship, free speech and satire, with Martin Rowson and Will Self, was excellent. You can watch it here.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 11:13 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Spacedone wrote:Tory response to NHS crisis? Cut unsocial hours payments to NHS staff. Yep that'll really help fill those vacancies in A&E for the night shift.

NHS staff ‘unsocial hours’ payments under threat
Department of Health proposes radical cost-cutting changes to shift-patterns of staff in England

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... th-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Options outlined by the department include removing unsocial hours payments for working on Saturdays and Sundays; only axing those for working Saturdays; lowering rates for Sundays and bank holidays; changing night-shift starts from 8pm to 10pm; and “rewarding” staff for flexibility in working hours, perhaps along the lines of the AA, where pay levels reflect how readily staff are prepared to work any shift within a 24-hour period.

Changes also need to be made in the way staff move up pay scales to make them “more affordable”, the department says.

Unison, the public services trade union, suggested the proposals could be “the final straw” in retaining, let alone recruiting, staff.
That's an awful lot of words to say "we're going to save money by cutting pay and conditions". Because of course there isn't any problem that can't be solved by paying people less, to do more, at increasingly unsocial times (sarcasm alert). I can't remember who it was now, but some medical professional or other said the way to solve the recruitment crisis in A&E was more annual leave to allow personnel who are expected to work all sorts of unsocial hours (and sometimes back to back shifts when it snows) to actually have a life and see their families....nice to see the DofH has taken on board this advice....and decided to do the exact opposite. It's almost as if they want to stuff up the NHS, isn't it?

Excellent as usual, Willow. I posted something below the line on Orr's article. Cameron doesn't understand work. Things just get done in Dave's world. Servants take care of the essential work & Dave has unfortunately wasted five years of life for too many. It's the 21st century. The UK is one of the finest nations in the world - the NHS & the accomplishments made improving the lives of people who'd have starved or fell into a ditch with pneumonia dead before twenty years old otherwise. Dave is oblivious of his unique, advantaged, position attained without ability or talent. Dave's a dissipated throwback. This country has had some fine Edwards in its history.

edited to fix a sentence. I hope it's readable now.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 09 Jan, 2015 11:18 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:It occurred to me just now...that if they change the time of the night shift...then they've got to change the time of the day shift as well!

With a 12 hour shift, otherwise you'll get an overlap of 2 hours at one end a 2 hour gap at the other.

You've just made the Chancellor's head explode. JHunt runs behind the tree to hide.