Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st April 2024

[refitman]

Morning all.

[refitman]

Love it when Labour go after the BNP vote

[AnatolyKasparov]

This is so tiresome.

None other than Diane Abbott pledged zero tolerance on illegals when Shadow Home Secretary ("straight from the appeals office to deportation" was her phrase, or at least something along those lines) You can decry that if you like, but it was when Corbyn was leader so there we are.

[refitman]

You're gonna have to present an actual source for that AK, rather than just going "Corbyn bad too, mkay". I've had a quick look and all the sources I can find show Abbott saying that the Tories were treating immigrants appallingly (imagine that), including 'returning' people to countries they had never lived in previously. She said in 2017/8 that Labour would ensure that illegal were correctly removed (but they would get adequate legal help) but, importantly, they wouldn't conflate legal and illegal immigration - which is what Labour are doing with that poster.

From the Graun article linked below:

Whenever the issue of the Windrush scandal has been raised, Ministers have sought to conflate the issue with that of illegal immigration. Naturally, migrants here illegally should be removed. But the Windrush generation, anyone who came here from anywhere in the Commonwealth before 1973, were invited and are here legally. This entire scandal is a natural and wholly foreseeable consequence of this government’s policy, which encourages the assumption that innocent people should be accused of being illegal immigrants. This places the burden of proof on them to prove that they are here legally, rather than the state to prove that they are not. As I and others warned at the time, people would be falsely accused of being illegal immigrants because of their names, their accents and the colour of their skin. This is exactly what has happened.

https://www.thejusticegap.com/diane-abb ... ts-labour/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... eportation

[refitman]

[AnatolyKasparov]

Really, "secure our borders" is a totally anodyne phrase that maybe 90% of this country will agree with - are they all BNP in your eyes?

That it is used by the far right means no more than when they use the national flag.

Something that should, by definition, belong to all of us.

[refitman]

The salient point here, is that Labour DO NOT NEED TO DO THIS. They have a commanding lead in the polls and short of some divine/satanic (delete as appropriate) intervention, the Tories are going to get annihilated at the next GE. They don't have to tack right, they don't have to appeal to the GBNews crowd.

[refitman]

Really, "secure our borders" is a totally anodyne phrase that maybe 90% of this country will agree with - are they all BNP in your eyes?

That it is used by the far right means no more than when they use the national flag.

Something that should, by definition, belong to all of us.

I'm sorry, you don't see "secure our borders" as a dog-whistle? I really thought you were smarter than that AK. Labour are tacking right on loads of issues - NHS funding/provision, LGBTQ rights and now 'the furriners are coming for youuuuuuuu'.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Its a nothingburger, a totally mainstream phrase.

See that BNP leaflet again? That claims an "invasion" - just like Braverman did recently. Even that nice Mr Cameron once talked about a "swarm".

Now, *that* is inflammatory language. Not something that, as I said, probably more than 90% of this country actually supports.

(quite possibly including most immigrants)

[refitman]

Its a nothingburger, a totally mainstream phrase.

See that BNP leaflet again? That claims an "invasion" - just like Braverman did recently. Even that nice Mr Cameron once talked about a "swarm".

Now, *that* is inflammatory language. Not something that, as I said, probably more than 90% of this country actually supports.

(quite possibly including most immigrants)

You didn't see the "30,000 crossed the channel last year"?

This is really tiresome.

[AnatolyKasparov]

That is simply a factual statement, with no "push button" phrases attached.

[frog222]

I can't remember SuperMac or Harold Wilson highlighting their enthusiasm for keeping the borders safe ...

[frog222]

"RT is funded just like the BBC"

" Ukrainian doctors castrate Russian POWs"

"We occupied Kiev in the first week, then gave it back" ( Seen that one this week from a Troll at the Times)

"Nuclear war is no big deal , we're all going to die sometime"

[AnatolyKasparov]

I can't remember SuperMac or Harold Wilson highlighting their enthusiasm for keeping the borders safe ...

Though it was the (first) Wilson government that passed the first major anti-immigration legislation for decades in the late 1960s.

You don't think good old Enoch made *that* speech just on a whim do you?

[RogerOThornhill]

Take a look at the signatories list on this letter from someone who writes for the usual suspects...you get the picture quite early when he says "Some schools teach gender identity ideology to pupils as if it were fact" - something which has been said often but I've never seen proven - and then singles out the BBC in the broadcast and print media". OK, we get the picture...

Birbalsingh proves that she hasn't read the Cass Review when she replied "At 18, do as you please." - nope, the review says 25 which is fairly arbitrary & based on nothing at all.

[frog222]

I can't remember SuperMac or Harold Wilson highlighting their enthusiasm for keeping the borders safe ...

Though it was the (first) Wilson government that passed the first major anti-immigration legislation for decades in the late 1960s.
You don't think good old Enoch made *that* speech just on a whim do you?

Fair cop AK ! When you get down to it Both parties are deeply racist ?

[frog222]

[frog222]

State sick pay is pretty mean here, but apparently it's twice the UK rate ...

[frog222]

While masses of people are being tortured dismembered killed , in for TWO examples ONLY in Gaza and Ukraine , I still follow up the Trans Wars a bit -

Phoebe with an F worth a look, plus replies --



From this interview it looks like Dawn Butler went off at half Cock on Cass's review of the research, but I was more intrigued by the detransitioners and still have NO idea about how many there are !

Last week it emerged that NHS adult gender clinics had finally agreed to share missing data on the outcomes of 9,000 patients who were treated as children at the Tavistock clinic.

• ‘Secretive’ gender clinics back down over puberty blocker data

Cass revealed that six clinics had thwarted her review by refusing to co-operate with research into the long-term impact of prescribing puberty blockers and sex hormones. She described their failure to share data as “co-ordinated” and “ideologically driven”.

She told The Times that during her review she had held a “really difficult” meeting with the clinics. They accused the review team of taking up their “valuable time”, she claimed.

“They were not particularly friendly to us when we approached”, she added.

Cass also revealed that the Tavistock clinic had refused to co-operate with the review by not handing over data on detransitioners who had been examined by a psychiatrist.

The review team wanted to assess what risk factors in a patient’s history could possibly be linked to detransition. A consultant who had carried out an audit of information from Gids patients had agreed to give it to the Cass team.

But Cass said: “We asked the Tavistock to have it and they wouldn’t give it to us. It was very disappointing.”

Following her report, Kemi Badenoch, the equalities minister, told The Sunday Times that there had been ideological capture of institutions, including the NHS, which needed to be corrected if Cass’s recommendations were to be fully delivered.

Cass responded yesterday by saying that there could plainly be ideological capture about “almost anything and certainly about this”.

In regards to Tavistock, she told The Times she had concluded “there were certainly one or two individuals … who I would describe as activists among the staff.”

However, she added: “I think the majority of staff believed what they were doing was right.”

With long waiting lists for the treatment of children with gender dysphoria, several private clinics have recently emerged to fill the void. Cass said she was concerned about that and claimed young people would not get the level of holistic care NHS clinics provided.

Hilary Cass: I can’t travel on public transport after gender report
Author of landmark review into transgender treatment tells of online abuse and her dismay at disinformation spread by, among others, a Labour MP

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hila ... -35pt0mvnh

[frog222]

As far as I can see, the coppers made a mistake, should have waited until one 'side' or the other went too far, but fell into a trap ?

Plus, the same approach should apply to a 'Muslim lady' !

The CAA published footage of a police officer describing its chief executive, Gideon Falter, of being as “openly Jewish” during a protest in central London last weekend.

In the clip, another officer told Falter he would be arrested if he did not leave the area because he was “causing a breach of peace with all these other people” as his presence was “antagonising”.

The Met apologised on Friday, suggesting opponents of pro-Palestinian marches “must know that their presence is provocative” and they are “increasing the likelihood of an altercation” by lining the route to object.

But the force subsequently issued another statement apologising for the “further offence” caused by its first apology.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... nt-protest

Clumsy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[frog222]

Very much more detail here, from Gideon Falter

I was treated like a criminal for being Jewish. The Met chief must go
Pelted with insults like ‘scum’ and ‘Nazi’ after stumbling across a march, the leader of the Campaign Against Antisemitism was told he could be arrested

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-wa ... -v2v6w59zq

You really need a map and a timeline to have a better idea if he was engaged in provocation !

If the cops stopped them crossing the road before the march got to them where would they have gone if they had crossed over ?

ETC !

[AnatolyKasparov]

I can't remember SuperMac or Harold Wilson highlighting their enthusiasm for keeping the borders safe ...

Though it was the (first) Wilson government that passed the first major anti-immigration legislation for decades in the late 1960s.
You don't think good old Enoch made *that* speech just on a whim do you?

Fair cop AK ! When you get down to it Both parties are deeply racist ?

Labour certainly doesn't have a clean record, but still compares decently to its main alternative.

[frog222]

Morning AK -- seems to me they are still chasing the racist and other unhappy voters, because there are so many of them around ? Hard times make it easy for the populists .

Anyway, was Mr Falter really 'just going for a walk with a few friends' or taking a film crew for a bit of provocation ?

I believe he has form, as does the CAA

A classic case of PR spoxx responding too fast with limited knowledge of what actually happened ?



Anyway, off to see if Stanislav is still alive .

[RogerOThornhill]

Very much more detail here, from Gideon Falter

I was treated like a criminal for being Jewish. The Met chief must go
Pelted with insults like ‘scum’ and ‘Nazi’ after stumbling across a march, the leader of the Campaign Against Antisemitism was told he could be arrested

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-wa ... -v2v6w59zq

You really need a map and a timeline to have a better idea if he was engaged in provocation !

If the cops stopped them crossing the road before the march got to them where would they have gone if they had crossed over ?

ETC !

Oh, how odd.

I thought we were told that Jews avoided London these days.

And just happened to 'stumble' across a march...with a handy film crew to record it. Of course...

[frog222]

Using a hand-cranked field telephone for 'interrogations' was common in the Thirties in Vietnam. Possible that the French invented it even, but that needs checking .

[frog222]

Slowly slowly, more coming out .................... ?

[frog222]

I switched off Sunday WATO at 13.17 when it was obvious they were going round in circles .

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Oh how I love being a Man Utd supporter right now. Never a dull moment. Who doesn't enjoy the spectacle of a bunch of millionaires running around like headless chickens with all the tactical nous of a primary school five a side team. The only way it could be improved would be to make them wear clown noses and comedically oversized football boots.

Hard luck Coventry. Football can be a cruel game and you deserve to be in the final.

[frog222]

[Sky'sGoneOut]

Let me tell you a story.

A long time ago (back in 2013) an evil goblin called Iain Duncan Smith decided too many sick and disabled people were receiving something called Disability Living Allowance. He claimed people were receiving payments for conditions it was never originally intended to cover and promptly scrapped it and replaced it with the Personal Independence Payment. PIP, originally, was designed to be much more difficult to claim with far stricter criteria for eligibility, and as a result many sick and disabled people who had previously qualified for DLA were left penniless. Unfortunately for the evil goblin claimants and disability charities refused to take this lying down and so began a plethora of court cases which the evil goblin lost, over and over again. Consequently in no time at all the eligibility for PIP ended up so strongly resembling that of the DLA it replaced that the evil goblin ended up being criticised by other evil goblins for wasting a shit load of public money without actually starving many sick or disabled people to death at all.

What's the moral of this story you ask? Defend The Human Rights Act at all costs, because without it the evil goblins would have won.

Sunak can threaten the sick and disabled all he likes but even in the preposterously unlikely event he wins the next election we've been through all of this before and a result there's a decades worth of legal precedents he'd have to overturn if he thinks he can strip the benefits from hundreds of thousands of people using parliamentary diktat. And the same goes for Starmer.

[refitman]

The one, slightly, amusing thing from Sunak's speech on disability and benefits (and how the Tories plan to fuck everyone on them), was him saying that the previous reforms, by IDS, were a failure - and at IDS's pet thinktank too. Other than that, it was just the drizzling shits of a speech (and incredibly rich of Sunak to complain about people paying too much tax, when he avoids most of what he should pay).

Oh, and then there's this

[Sky'sGoneOut]

The one, slightly, amusing thing from Sunak's speech on disability and benefits (and how the Tories plan to fuck everyone on them), was him saying that the previous reforms, by IDS, were a failure - and at IDS's pet thinktank too.

I must confess I missed the irony of the venue, I merely glanced at an article about it, thought 'wanker' and moved on.

We all know he's had his chips so why bother listening to a word he says?

Which thankfully seems to have been the majority response on the various benefit forums I peruse. Funnily enough the most scathing attacks on Sunak I've seen haven't come from disability benefit claimants but from actual job centre staff posting on Reddit. Presumably because of all government depts the DWP has the highest number off sick due to mental health problems.

[Sky'sGoneOut]