Wednesday 21st January 2015

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:01 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2 hrs2 hours ago
So three Scottish polls in four days
SNP leads ranging from 10% to 28% - that is some difference

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:05 pm

pk1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Sorry, was a little trigger happy with my post.

Had just come back from two hours of hill walking, low blood sugar & hungry and saw the poll posts.

Hopefully the polls are outliers.

& was that Green thing with Bennett & Lucas using the terms 'boys' real or a piss take ?
Didn't think much of it if it was real.
Very real I'm afraid

It'll appeal to a lot of women. I despair of my sex at times.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:08 pm

Grayling: I'm the first impartial lord chancellor in 400 years
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/01 ... n-400-year
It's hard to know where to start with Chris Grayling's interview with Conservative Home today, but overall it's probably the part where he suggests he is the first objective lord chancellor in the history of the job.

The always brilliant Andrew Gimson asks Grayling if it has been "difficult" being the first lord chancellor in 400 years not to be a lawyer. Grayling answers:

"I think it's actually helpful rather than a hindrance. Because I think it enables you to take a dispassionate view. You're not cup-tied in any way to your previous career or your chambers or your former firm."

"You have to take difficult decisions, but I think it enables you to take them in a dispassionate way. And the idea that someone who's not a lawyer cannot believe in upholding the rule of law is just not right. I absolutely understand the need to uphold the rule of law. But there's a difference between upholding the rule of law and saying the law is perfect and Parliament shouldn’t seek to change it."...

It's hard to think of a profession (other than bankers,insurance salespeople and estate agents - and can we really call those 'professions'?) that Grayling and the Condems haven't derided, worked over and trashed good and proper. Solicitors and lawyers are joining teachers, nurses and doctors, fire fighters, the green blob, the other blobs, charities and campaigning organisations, .... not to mention the general plebs working on or below the minimum wage ... in receiving this treatment.

I wonder which way most of the legal profession voted in 2010 ... and will it be the same in 2015?

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:10 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: It's not 'a common sense policy' - it's just nasty them and us garbage speak.
That's pretty terrible. Less so but still worrying is the declaration that bicycles would be relegated to the pavement in Ukip Britain. For one thing, this would increase collisions with pedestrians massively. For another thing, what do they mean 'back to the pavement'? Bicycles were using roads before motor vehicles were! Cycles don't hold up traffic, they are traffic! They don't cause congestion, they reduce it. Can you imagine what would happen if every cyclist in London switched to a car? Cycling isn't a 'past time' (sic), it's a way of life for many people, the best or only way to get to work for many others. Ukip pursuing the Top Gear vote evidently.

Your average UKIP voter is probably not, I think it's safe to say, a cyclist, and like Thatcher, would probably consider bus users as failures. If, however, you've a Mitsubishi Evo, or a G-reg Vauxhall Nova 1.2 with darkened glass, an exhaust the size of Farage's gob and a stereo system that's worth more than the car and is almost as loud as said exhaust, then you're definitely 'one of us' - the People's Army. See also pub bores.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:12 pm

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 6h6 hours ago
Grayling spent £72,000 of taxpayer funds defending the prison book ban policy which he says didn't exist http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/01/ ... yers-money" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Charlotte Henry ‏@charlotteahenry 6h6 hours ago
@IanDunt i dont understand why Grayling isn't under more pressure for his continuing incompetence.

‏@IanDunt
@charlotteahenry I'm reiable informed that a few magazines, not naming names, have taken a hands-off policy to the MoJ.

Charlotte Henry ‏@charlotteahenry 6h6 hours ago
@IanDunt you're not serious?

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 6h6 hours ago
@charlotteahenry I am serious.

Charlotte Henry ‏@charlotteahenry 5h5 hours ago
@IanDunt fucks sake

Tiberius Gracchus ‏@NIsocialist 5h5 hours ago
@IanDunt @charlotteahenry Speccie?

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 5h5 hours ago
@NIsocialist @charlotteahenry Not going there.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:14 pm

Re the 'structural deficit', there's a new article on Pieria, not quite as clear imo as the one we had the other day, but includes this gem

While physicists continue to endorse the law and gravity and astronomers do not challenge that the Earth is planet orbiting the sun, an alarming number of economists have abandoned commonsense as well as intellectual rigor to embrace a fanciful interpretation of market economies that they automatically hone in on full employment and potential output. Deregulation is closely linked to this mysticism of market adjustment in the aggregate.

Chancellor George Osborne is a committed acolyte of this ideology. Indeed, he has made his own contribution to its metaphysics, the "structural deficit". Some might insist that the Chancellor did not coin this term and was not the first to employ it on the field of fiscal warfare. These are quibbles, because to the Chancellor can be attributed the triumph of first inserting this nonsense into respectable discussion, and then nurturing it zealously until it dominates discussions of public finances in Britain and Europe.

http://www.pieria.co.uk/articles/chance ... al_deficit

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:21 pm

The UKIP candidate who presented the 'common sense' policies that would take away cars from unemployed people (well actually 'benefit claimants' so that means working, disabled, sick - whoever) and make them travel on buses, and ban bikes from roads - is apparently a representative for Charnwood.

I won't be moving there.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:25 pm

I know this isn't politics but if you fancy a bit of opera tonight - the Roundhouse are streaming a live performance of Monterverdi's Orfeo at 7:15pm.

http://www.roundhouse.org.uk/whats-on/2 ... st-orfeo-/

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:29 pm

Willow904 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:The way I see it, there are, in fact, lots of different ways you can inflict extreme hardship on a country, default being an example, and no one has made a case, as far as I can see, as to how austerity reduces debt given it's essentially deflationary and when you owe money you could really use a little inflation to make your debts easier to pay.
The 'argument' I recall hearing in 2010 was that the 'structural deficit' was part of the deficit that you could reduce by cutting spending and would magically have no effect whatsoever on the economy. When people spoke up in favour of stimulating growth, the response was always 'ah, but that only deals with the cyclical deficit - what about the structural deficit?'

The last time I heard the phrase 'structural deficit' used in the MSM was a couple of years ago when some figures had been released showing that the deficit was down, and all was joyful and triumphant, until Robert Peston mentioned that the bit of the deficit that had come down was cyclical and the structural deficit was untouched.

I know little enough about this to make much sense, but my foggy understanding is that the 'cyclical' and 'structural' parts of the deficit are notoriously hard to calculate, have a nasty habit of affecting each other, and some economists don't even accept the idea in the first place, so I don't know how Peston knew this or how it was calculated. But my point is that the idea of a structural deficit was at the heart of Osborne's plans while it suited him then dropped like the proverbial hot potato when it didn't. And the media has just gone along with it.
I think the weirdest thing George Osborne ever did was break the link between benefits and inflation by capping benefit rises to 1% and then drawing attention to how this interferes with the automatic stabilisers by then adopting the phrase "I'm allowing the automatic stabilisers to work". All it did was draw attention to the fact that by capping benefits, preventing the automatic stabilisers from working fully was actually exactly what he was doing. It was such a blatant lie I'm still struggling to understand how he didn't get hammered on it. It seems the MSM will accept any level of deception or incompetence as long as Ed Miliband is kept out office.

Indeed. But none of Osborne's decisions since 2010 have in any way been driven by practical economics. Cutting benefits when precisely the opposite is called for and starving local government of funds are but two examples of how to kill recovery. With money so cheap and the UK such a good long term bet, May 2010 should have seen him borowing to enable a real recovery, which might even have helped the much vaunted 'rebalancing' of the economy which he swore he would do - and then manifestly failed to do.

Cuts cause stagnation; stagnation harms confidence; without confidence, growth is highly unlikely, so investment doesn't happen, particularly in the private sector, where, without a trace of irony, he proclaimed it would start. In a stagnant economy, people don't spend and look to paying personal debt, just in case their job's next. If people don't spend, again, there's no incentive to invest in a business, either plant or stock, and certainly not in the staff.

The above is exactly what we've been seeing in the last 5 years, and the only way that Osborne could generate even a modicum of growth was by using the classic tactic of starting the next housing bubble - Right to Buy is a perfect example of how not to widen home ownership, even if you believe that home ownership is some sacred ideal. It's crazy to restart the housing market via a gvoernment subsidy to buyers, particularly when the problem is high house prices due to a lack of building. The money would be far better given to local councils, with orders to build council houses for people being bled dry by private landlords - which might even have justified some of the idiocy of the NPPF that the Tories brought in.

It's a mess, and Osborne's economic lunacy, based purely on prejudice and 'belief' as stupid as IDS', is busy storing up massive problems for the future. God, I miss Gordon Brown being Chancellor: certainly not perfect, by any means, but a head and shoulders over the present moronic incumbent at No. 11.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:30 pm

Martin Hickman @martin_hickman · 4m 4 minutes ago
Judge sends jury out again to decide whether they think it's realistic whether they'll ever reach verdicts.

Martin Hickman @martin_hickman · 6m 6 minutes ago
Deadlocked jury at Sun case. One juror discharged after telling judge this afternoon he was "under a good deal of pressure and stress."

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:36 pm

Martin Hickman @martin_hickman · 16s 16 seconds ago
Jury say they want to continue deliberations tomorrow because of the "changed dynamic" after the juror was discharged. Judge agrees.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:36 pm

The Green party – should we be panicking?
http://www.libdemvoice.org/the-green-pa ... 44290.html

Lib Dem Voice - not a particularly good post - but some of the comments are interesting.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:40 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: The 'argument' I recall hearing in 2010 was that the 'structural deficit' was part of the deficit that you could reduce by cutting spending and would magically have no effect whatsoever on the economy. When people spoke up in favour of stimulating growth, the response was always 'ah, but that only deals with the cyclical deficit - what about the structural deficit?'

The last time I heard the phrase 'structural deficit' used in the MSM was a couple of years ago when some figures had been released showing that the deficit was down, and all was joyful and triumphant, until Robert Peston mentioned that the bit of the deficit that had come down was cyclical and the structural deficit was untouched.

I know little enough about this to make much sense, but my foggy understanding is that the 'cyclical' and 'structural' parts of the deficit are notoriously hard to calculate, have a nasty habit of affecting each other, and some economists don't even accept the idea in the first place, so I don't know how Peston knew this or how it was calculated. But my point is that the idea of a structural deficit was at the heart of Osborne's plans while it suited him then dropped like the proverbial hot potato when it didn't. And the media has just gone along with it.
There was a very good linked article a few days back on here from Pieras (I think it's called) that deconstructed pretty much all the economic arguments and tried to define various terms. I'll see if I can find the link again, since structural and cyclic deficits were part of it.

Expect an edit here, or, if the threads rushed on, I'll post afresh.

[Edit]

And here it is, and it's a damn good read:

http://www.pieria.co.uk/articles/the_my ... al_deficit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That is a good article. I've skimmed it and will attempt a thorough read later. Do we have an economic/austerity mythbusters section we could post this in?

I'm not sure - but if we haven't, then we'll have one by the time the 6 O'Clock News is on to tell us how fucking wonderful the government is (pace Nick Robinson).

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:41 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:I know this isn't politics but if you fancy a bit of opera tonight - the Roundhouse are streaming a live performance of Monterverdi's Orfeo at 7:15pm.

http://www.roundhouse.org.uk/whats-on/2 ... st-orfeo-/

Damn - the one night we've got a sudden invite out to a meal with a neighbour - and as I've got swollen glands and feel very below par I would much rather stay in, wrapped up in a blanket and watch this. But I won't because she's a good friend and at 90 years old still living live to the full and on her own is a bit of a heroine herself to me ... and a glass of wine and good company might make me forget the throat pain for a while.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:47 pm

If you follow the Facebook link in this tweet it takes you to the original posting of that UKIP leaflet ... which some angry UKIP people BTL are insisting is really a Tory or Labour spoof to smear them. Lots of others not 'aving it and pointing out that it almost doesn't matter - it's exactly the sort of thing UKIP candidates might put out and so people believe it is from them.

Kaya Burgess [Times] ‏@kayaburgess 28m28 minutes ago
@IanAustinMP @Dannythefink @jreedmp Seemingly first posted on Facebook by a local resident, from what I can find - http://on.fb.me/1xytG5r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:49 pm

Jamie Reed retweeted
Paul Vintin ‏@PaulVintin 15m15 minutes ago
MT @jreedmp: You can't use the phrase 'common sense' any more without people thinkin you really mean 'fucking insane'

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 4:50 pm

Jamie Reed retweeted
Sam ‏@samogotchi 2m2 minutes ago
@jreedmp New policy: merge the jobcentre with We Buy Any Car. Come for benefits and they'll sell your car.

Really cooking now.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:04 pm

Now then!

The National Audit Office has issued an "adverse opinion" on the accounts of the Department for Education (DfE), saying they are "not true and fair".

The public spending watchdog says the level of error in the department's financial statements is "pervasive".

Since 2012-13, the DfE has consolidated the accounts of all academies with its own and that of its executive agencies.

As academies have a different reporting period, this has made it hard to make sense of the figures, the NAO says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30918549" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Errors, or more sinister?

Is this why the great man moved on and didn't cause too much of a stink about it?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:04 pm

Mirror Politics ‏@MirrorPolitics 16m16 minutes ago
Ban the unemployed from DRIVING to ease congestion, says Ukip election candidate http://bit.ly/1CgEo5Z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They're a bit late to the party - in comparison with FTN and others.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:07 pm

btw, I put up a reply to Aditya Chakrabortty yesterday (from Waltham Forest), implying he might have got some things wrong.

He replied to me on Twitter and said he hadn't seen any evidence at all that some of the things in the letter were true. He was extremely polite and patient, and I think he might have a point.

Fair play to him, he is going after what certainly looks like a story.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:09 pm

I think UKIP might have to ban party members and candidates from all forms of communicating .... not just Twitter. They can do serious PR damage through speaking and writing - before they even touch the internet.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:11 pm

Apparently Nicky Robinson is trying to make out Iraq was a specifically Labour disaster.

Perhaps he could point out that the current DWP Secretary was leading his party over the top even more enthusiastically than Tony Blair.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:12 pm

brightonhovelabour ‏@bhlabour 3h3 hours ago Hove, England
Labour reaction to Green Party decision to set illegal budget in #Brighton and #Hove
http://www.brightonhovelabour.com/labou ... gal_budget" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:12 pm

pk1 wrote:
The government’s multibillion-pound academies programme, in which thousands of schools have been taken out of local authority control and directly managed from Whitehall, has thrown the Department for Education’s finances into disarray.

In an extremely rare move, the National Audit Office, the public spending watchdog, has issued an “adverse opinion” on the department’s financial statements, indicating that it does not trust the accuracy of the DfE’s figures and is unable to assess whether it is providing value for money.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... e-finances

Apol for missing this, PK!

I think this could explain why Gove went.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:20 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
pk1 wrote:
The government’s multibillion-pound academies programme, in which thousands of schools have been taken out of local authority control and directly managed from Whitehall, has thrown the Department for Education’s finances into disarray.

In an extremely rare move, the National Audit Office, the public spending watchdog, has issued an “adverse opinion” on the department’s financial statements, indicating that it does not trust the accuracy of the DfE’s figures and is unable to assess whether it is providing value for money.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... e-finances
Apol for missing this, PK!

I think this could explain why Gove went.

think you'll find I was first on the scene

Taking thousands of schools out of LA control where they have a March year-end and converting them to academies where they have one ending in August - what could possibly go wrong?

Right now I reckon we have 2,699 separate organisations running academies plus a few more running free schools - say 100.

That's compared with 108 bodies running academies by the time of the election in 2010.

Haven't read the full report yet but summary sounds like the NAO are getting worried...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:30 pm

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 13m13 minutes ago
1/4: Absolute mauiling of #FailingGrayling in Lords just now by esteemed legal Crossbencher Lord Pannick re: #judicialreview

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 11m11 minutes ago
2/4 Ld Pannick on #FailingGrayling displays "astonishing lack of understanding" of #judicialreview, "demeaning Office of Lord Chancellor"

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 10m10 minutes ago
3/4 Ld Pannick on #FailingGrayling: "however much he resents delays & costs of Govt illegality being exposed in courts..." #judicialreview

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 8m8 minutes ago
4/4 #judicialreview "...it remains vital to hold ministers & civil servants to account in public" - Ld Pannick on #FailingGrayling

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:32 pm

Blimey. A Green fanatic has emerged.

Ruaidhri_seamus ‏@ruaidhri_seamus 5 mins5 minutes ago
@theblondebmw @RoryJL2014 Labour can't win a majority. Currently in talks with Tories over LabCon coalition.

Ruaidhri_seamus ‏@ruaidhri_seamus 6 mins6 minutes ago
@theblondebmw @RoryJL2014 Last week Labour voted WITH Tories for £30billion social cuts. Voting Labour is pointless.

Diane Rayburn ‏@dimayray 3 mins3 minutes ago
@ruaidhri_seamus @theblondebmw @RoryJL2014 You're Tweeting mistruths. Stop it!

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:34 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:If you follow the Facebook link in this tweet it takes you to the original posting of that UKIP leaflet ... which some angry UKIP people BTL are insisting is really a Tory or Labour spoof to smear them. Lots of others not 'aving it and pointing out that it almost doesn't matter - it's exactly the sort of thing UKIP candidates might put out and so people believe it is from them.

Kaya Burgess [Times] ‏@kayaburgess 28m28 minutes ago
@IanAustinMP @Dannythefink @jreedmp Seemingly first posted on Facebook by a local resident, from what I can find - http://on.fb.me/1xytG5r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Er, no, it's not a fake at all. The Mirror takes up the story:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ba ... on-5017896" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:40 pm

Protest leader quits in 'Hitler' row
Breaking news
Leader of German "anti-Islamisation" group steps down in row over him pictured with "Hitler moustache"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30920086

This is the leader of the group that Farage got UKIP involved with ... to make sure they could access those European pro integration funds. The BBC aren't running the picture ... but it's a shocker.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 13m13 minutes ago
1/4: Absolute mauiling of #FailingGrayling in Lords just now by esteemed legal Crossbencher Lord Pannick re: #judicialreview

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 11m11 minutes ago
2/4 Ld Pannick on #FailingGrayling displays "astonishing lack of understanding" of #judicialreview, "demeaning Office of Lord Chancellor"

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 10m10 minutes ago
3/4 Ld Pannick on #FailingGrayling: "however much he resents delays & costs of Govt illegality being exposed in courts..." #judicialreview

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 8m8 minutes ago
4/4 #judicialreview "...it remains vital to hold ministers & civil servants to account in public" - Ld Pannick on #FailingGrayling

Ouch.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:43 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:If you follow the Facebook link in this tweet it takes you to the original posting of that UKIP leaflet ... which some angry UKIP people BTL are insisting is really a Tory or Labour spoof to smear them. Lots of others not 'aving it and pointing out that it almost doesn't matter - it's exactly the sort of thing UKIP candidates might put out and so people believe it is from them.

Kaya Burgess [Times] ‏@kayaburgess 28m28 minutes ago
@IanAustinMP @Dannythefink @jreedmp Seemingly first posted on Facebook by a local resident, from what I can find - http://on.fb.me/1xytG5r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Er, no, it's not a fake at all. The Mirror takes up the story:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ba ... on-5017896" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes - I know - but they don't want to know. It's all a conspiracy. I don't think most local Labour activists have the time to create spoofs about the other candidates ... even if they were so inclined ... which I sincerely hope they are not.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:47 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
brightonhovelabour ‏@bhlabour 3h3 hours ago Hove, England
Labour reaction to Green Party decision to set illegal budget in #Brighton and #Hove
http://www.brightonhovelabour.com/labou ... gal_budget" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I'm a metropolitan borough councillor (as you are probably tired of hearing!), and if the Greens set an illegal budget, as a Labour party member, I'd be wishing them bon voyage as they will be disqualified from their posts as councillors and surcharged as well. Good riddance to them. The point of power is having to cope with what is thrown at you, rather than pretending that you can alter reality by ignoring it. Pickles' goons will be just waiting for the B&H Greens to submit an illegal budget - which the city's S151 will have to inform the government that he cannot pass, as it is fiscally insecure - then watch the carnage.

Tizme/Tem - if you're reading, use whatever influence you can with your colleagues on the south coast, as they are about to commit political suicide.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:51 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
brightonhovelabour ‏@bhlabour 3h3 hours ago Hove, England
Labour reaction to Green Party decision to set illegal budget in #Brighton and #Hove
http://www.brightonhovelabour.com/labou ... gal_budget" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
I'm a metropolitan borough councillor (as you are probably tired of hearing!), and if the Greens set an illegal budget, as a Labour party member, I'd be wishing them bon voyage as they will be disqualified from their posts as councillors and surcharged as well. Good riddance to them. The point of power is having to cope with what is thrown at you, rather than pretending that you can alter reality by ignoring it. Pickles' goons will be just waiting for the B&H Greens to submit an illegal budget - which the city's S151 will have to inform the government that he cannot pass, as it is fiscally insecure - then watch the carnage.

Tizme/Tem - if you're reading, use whatever influence you can with your colleagues on the south coast, as they are about to commit political suicide.

If the budget can't actually be passed - what would be the basis of the surcharge? Is it a set fee / fine ... or is it based on what is deemed to have been actually overspent - or spent without proper authorisation?

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:52 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
I'm a metropolitan borough councillor (as you are probably tired of hearing!), and if the Greens set an illegal budget, as a Labour party member, I'd be wishing them bon voyage as they will be disqualified from their posts as councillors and surcharged as well. Good riddance to them. The point of power is having to cope with what is thrown at you, rather than pretending that you can alter reality by ignoring it. Pickles' goons will be just waiting for the B&H Greens to submit an illegal budget - which the city's S151 will have to inform the government that he cannot pass, as it is fiscally insecure - then watch the carnage.

Tizme/Tem - if you're reading, use whatever influence you can with your colleagues on the south coast, as they are about to commit political suicide.

If the budget can't actually be passed - what would be the basis of the surcharge? Is it a set fee / fine ... or is it based on what is deemed to have been actually overspent - or spent without proper authorisation?

I'd have to consult the particular law in question - it's never been a live issue to me, but I certainly recall Clay Cross, as may other FTNers.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:56 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote: I'm a metropolitan borough councillor (as you are probably tired of hearing!), and if the Greens set an illegal budget, as a Labour party member, I'd be wishing them bon voyage as they will be disqualified from their posts as councillors and surcharged as well. Good riddance to them. The point of power is having to cope with what is thrown at you, rather than pretending that you can alter reality by ignoring it. Pickles' goons will be just waiting for the B&H Greens to submit an illegal budget - which the city's S151 will have to inform the government that he cannot pass, as it is fiscally insecure - then watch the carnage.

Tizme/Tem - if you're reading, use whatever influence you can with your colleagues on the south coast, as they are about to commit political suicide.

If the budget can't actually be passed - what would be the basis of the surcharge? Is it a set fee / fine ... or is it based on what is deemed to have been actually overspent - or spent without proper authorisation?
I'd have to consult the particular law in question - it's never been a live issue to me, but I certainly recall Clay Cross, as may other FTNers.

And Lambeth and Liverpool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rate-capping_rebellion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 5:58 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
brightonhovelabour ‏@bhlabour 3h3 hours ago Hove, England
Labour reaction to Green Party decision to set illegal budget in #Brighton and #Hove
http://www.brightonhovelabour.com/labou ... gal_budget" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

They're trying to set a 6% Council Tax increase? Ouch.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:00 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
If the budget can't actually be passed - what would be the basis of the surcharge? Is it a set fee / fine ... or is it based on what is deemed to have been actually overspent - or spent without proper authorisation?
I'd have to consult the particular law in question - it's never been a live issue to me, but I certainly recall Clay Cross, as may other FTNers.
And Lambeth and Liverpool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rate-capping_rebellion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you - those are rather better and more relevant examples, as Clay Cross about a different subject (damn my memory!).

The laws are still there, and not even the Green party will be able to ignore them.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:02 pm

... Eight councils ended their campaign when the leadership proposed a legal budget, six when councillors from the majority group joined opposition councillors to overrule the leadership; Lewisham conceded in unique circumstances. Two councils, Lambeth and Liverpool held out for longer than others and were subjected to an extraordinary audit which resulted in the councillors responsible for not setting a budget being required to repay the amount the council lost in interest, and also being disqualified from office. Liverpool's delay in setting a budget caused a severe financial crisis which was denounced by the Labour Party leader Neil Kinnock...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rate-capping_rebellion

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:02 pm

Ian ‏@Mancman10 2 mins2 minutes ago
#GE2015 predictions by @IainDale
LAB 301 (+43)
CON 278 (~29)
LDEM 24 (-33)
SNP 18 (+12)
UKIP 5 (+5)
GRN 1 (-)
OTH 23
@jimsrob

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:10 pm

Spacedone wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
brightonhovelabour ‏@bhlabour 3h3 hours ago Hove, England
Labour reaction to Green Party decision to set illegal budget in #Brighton and #Hove
http://www.brightonhovelabour.com/labou ... gal_budget" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
They're trying to set a 6% Council Tax increase? Ouch.

The current legal maximum, AFAIK, is 2%, after which you trigger a local ballot of electors (who'll probably say no) and gain Fat Eric's eternal interest in your council, which he will then probably persecute to the best of his abilities, which I suppose means he'll probably royally screw up, as he does with everything else that he touches. Still, not a wise idea to try it - anyone suggesting it to me would get a curt 'get stuffed'.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:11 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 13m13 minutes ago
1/4: Absolute mauiling of #FailingGrayling in Lords just now by esteemed legal Crossbencher Lord Pannick re: #judicialreview

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 11m11 minutes ago
2/4 Ld Pannick on #FailingGrayling displays "astonishing lack of understanding" of #judicialreview, "demeaning Office of Lord Chancellor"

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 10m10 minutes ago
3/4 Ld Pannick on #FailingGrayling: "however much he resents delays & costs of Govt illegality being exposed in courts..." #judicialreview

LabourLordsUK ‏@LabourLordsUK 8m8 minutes ago
4/4 #judicialreview "...it remains vital to hold ministers & civil servants to account in public" - Ld Pannick on #FailingGrayling
Ouch.

There have been so many bad choices in this government many of them merge into one big nightmare, but wasn't there warnings that when Grayling was chosen it was the first time ever someone with no legal background had been given the post and it was risky?
Was it Ken Clarke?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:13 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
They're trying to set a 6% Council Tax increase? Ouch.
The current legal maximum, AFAIK, is 2%, after which you trigger a local ballot of electors (who'll probably say no) and gain Fat Eric's eternal interest in your council, which he will then probably persecute to the best of his abilities, which I suppose means he'll probably royally screw up, as he does with everything else that he touches. Still, not a wise idea to try it - anyone suggesting it to me would get a curt 'get stuffed'.

We had a 4.4% rise here in Ceredigion from April 2014.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:16 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Ouch.
There have been so many bad choices in this government many of them merge into one big nightmare, but wasn't there warnings that it was the first time ever [?] the post had been given to someone with no legal background and it was risky?
Was it Ken Clarke?

Well, given that they gave the role of Chancellor to someone with a degree in history, no economics experience, and no business experience beyond being a towel folder, I think it's pretty par for the course that they'd appoint a complete idiot with no legal knowledge as Lord Chancellor, in a similar way to having an environment minister who refuses to listen to environmental experts about the badger cull, a health secretary who believes in homeopathy and a minister responsible for the subject of climate change who doesn't believe in it at all.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:16 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Blimey. A Green fanatic has emerged.

Ruaidhri_seamus ‏@ruaidhri_seamus 5 mins5 minutes ago
@theblondebmw @RoryJL2014 Labour can't win a majority. Currently in talks with Tories over LabCon coalition.

Ruaidhri_seamus ‏@ruaidhri_seamus 6 mins6 minutes ago
@theblondebmw @RoryJL2014 Last week Labour voted WITH Tories for £30billion social cuts. Voting Labour is pointless.

Diane Rayburn ‏@dimayray 3 mins3 minutes ago
@ruaidhri_seamus @theblondebmw @RoryJL2014 You're Tweeting mistruths. Stop it!

I'm having a go now.

If his leader is happy to mislead, no reason to expect her fanboys to be better.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:19 pm

yahyah wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
Spacedone wrote: They're trying to set a 6% Council Tax increase? Ouch.
The current legal maximum, AFAIK, is 2%, after which you trigger a local ballot of electors (who'll probably say no) and gain Fat Eric's eternal interest in your council, which he will then probably persecute to the best of his abilities, which I suppose means he'll probably royally screw up, as he does with everything else that he touches. Still, not a wise idea to try it - anyone suggesting it to me would get a curt 'get stuffed'.

We had a 4.4% rise here in Ceredigion from April 2014.

That's a biggie - was there a ballot, or was that down to agreements regarding other precepts (from the local umbrella waste authority, for example) that ensured that the measured rise wouldn't hit Jubba's radar?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:20 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Blimey. A Green fanatic has emerged.

Ruaidhri_seamus ‏@ruaidhri_seamus 5 mins5 minutes ago
@theblondebmw @RoryJL2014 Labour can't win a majority. Currently in talks with Tories over LabCon coalition.

Ruaidhri_seamus ‏@ruaidhri_seamus 6 mins6 minutes ago
@theblondebmw @RoryJL2014 Last week Labour voted WITH Tories for £30billion social cuts. Voting Labour is pointless.

Diane Rayburn ‏@dimayray 3 mins3 minutes ago
@ruaidhri_seamus @theblondebmw @RoryJL2014 You're Tweeting mistruths. Stop it!
I'm having a go now.

Ask them if they would find it offensive if Labour called Bennett & Lucas girls in one of their PR campaigns ?

If his leader is happy to mislead, no reason to expect her fanboys to be better.

Ask them if they would find it offensive if Labour called Bennett & Lucas girls in one of their PR campaigns ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:20 pm

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 11m 11 minutes ago
This week's local by-elections are taking place on Friday - not Thursday. One is in Scotland. at Kirkcaldy East on Fife. A big SNP boost?

Mike Smithson retweeted
bill greig @scotexpress46 · 54m 54 minutes ago
@MSmithsonPB It is a well known phenomenon and is called the Spiral of Silence - people do not like admitting supporting an unpopular party.

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 58m 58 minutes ago
@MSmithsonPB Let's see what the @LordAshcroft Scottish seat polls produce.I believe he uses English-based call centres.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:25 pm

A view I agree with:

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-a4 ... L_uRy40-g0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Neoliberalism: a doctrine based on lies

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:25 pm

yahyah wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
Spacedone wrote: They're trying to set a 6% Council Tax increase? Ouch.
The current legal maximum, AFAIK, is 2%, after which you trigger a local ballot of electors (who'll probably say no) and gain Fat Eric's eternal interest in your council, which he will then probably persecute to the best of his abilities, which I suppose means he'll probably royally screw up, as he does with everything else that he touches. Still, not a wise idea to try it - anyone suggesting it to me would get a curt 'get stuffed'.

We had a 4.4% rise here in Ceredigion from April 2014.

Ceredigion seem to be generally expensive. The parking charges in Cardigan are eye watering in comparison to nearby Pembs and Carmarthenshire towns. Cardigan £2.10 for up to 3 hours. Fishguard 70p for equivalent. Carmarthen 40p when we were last there.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 6:27 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 6h6 hours ago
Grayling spent £72,000 of taxpayer funds defending the prison book ban policy which he says didn't exist http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/01/ ... yers-money" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Charlotte Henry ‏@charlotteahenry 6h6 hours ago
@IanDunt i dont understand why Grayling isn't under more pressure for his continuing incompetence.

‏@IanDunt
@charlotteahenry I'm reiable informed that a few magazines, not naming names, have taken a hands-off policy to the MoJ.

Charlotte Henry ‏@charlotteahenry 6h6 hours ago
@IanDunt you're not serious?

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 6h6 hours ago
@charlotteahenry I am serious.

Charlotte Henry ‏@charlotteahenry 5h5 hours ago
@IanDunt fucks sake

Tiberius Gracchus ‏@NIsocialist 5h5 hours ago
@IanDunt @charlotteahenry Speccie?

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 5h5 hours ago
@NIsocialist @charlotteahenry Not going there.
A free press is the unsleeping guardian of every other right that free men prize; it is the most dangerous foe of tyranny. Where men have the habit of liberty, the Press will continue to be the vigilant guardian of the rights of the ordinary citizen

Winston Churchill

Boy, was he wrong

I don't think anything much has changed. Churchill wasn't always - ahem - truthful. When Edward and Mrs Simpson had their affair the papers were asked to keep the lid on it and they were very obliging. The foreign press were having a field day and our papers didn't breathe a word.