Wednesday 21st January 2015

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 12:42 pm

Nick Robinson is telling WATO he'll be on in half an hour with some 'embargoed' scoop.

If he's all gleeful (and he sounds so) I dread to think what it might be. Miliband once covered up an egg stain on his tie with felt tip?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 12:58 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... nottingham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Liz Mckenzie:
"The estate we’re in: how working class people became the ‘problem’
My study of St Ann’s in Nottingham where I lived for many years shows how pernicious the idea of the feckless poor has become. I will continue to fight against these stigmatising views"

" Being held up as “beating the odds”, “done good”, or “escaped” does not make me happy. It only compounds what I know about the brutal stigmatisation, and the devaluing process of working class people."

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:05 pm

: Lib Dem Leaflet Bristol West.jpg (94.68 KiB) Viewed 7537 times

Kerry McCarthy MP retweeted
Sam Johnson ‏@thelarker67 8m8 minutes ago Bristol, England
Is this best @LibDems can do in #Bristol West? Five years in govt & no achievements to note. PATHETIC. @KerryMP

That is a corker. Note the careful use of 'Ed Miliband's Labour candidate' - no name, and hoping to maximise the sneer by using Miliband instead. Is this the 'different' politics the Lib Dems were so proud of. Hoping Tizme along later to comment on the jibe at the Green Party too.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:08 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... nottingham

Liz Mckenzie:
"The estate we’re in: how working class people became the ‘problem’
My study of St Ann’s in Nottingham where I lived for many years shows how pernicious the idea of the feckless poor has become. I will continue to fight against these stigmatising views"

" Being held up as “beating the odds”, “done good”, or “escaped” does not make me happy. It only compounds what I know about the brutal stigmatisation, and the devaluing process of working class people."

It is a good but painful read. Painful because I came away from it feeling pretty depressed - recognising so much of what she said, and how long term and ingrained these issues are ... but not seeing many solutions or opportunities for change on offer.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Mason @paulmasonnews · 14h 14 hours ago
How to pronounce Syriza: like Syria but with a Z
I think that might have been aimed at Emily Maitliss. Pronunciation of 'foreign' names - something else the BBC used to be hot on ... not so now.

Chap on another board noticed that too. French names seemed to cause problems. Which they really shouldn't.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:09 pm

Ah, I see, Nick Robinson's glee is at getting to announce that the SNP are saying they will vote on English NHS budgets and related matters in the Westminster parliament.

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:10 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 18m 18 minutes ago
Today at PMQs David Cameron focussed on a burned carpet from 10 years ago. Behold, people of Britain, the mighty House of Commons #PMQS
Did he really sink that low?

Yep

[youtube]rbRURb5zBMA[/youtube]

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:12 pm

"Dave monsters Ed as usual" - you might have picked a less obviously biased link

(they obviously missed the last two weeks, for a start)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:12 pm

Willow904 wrote:I thought I would share this from Michael Rosen because it's exactly how I feel when listening to the media talking as if austerity is the only possible option rather than a choice:

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/ ... l?spref=tw

Argentina has been cited by Syriza as an example of life after default. They have a very good point. The world won't stop turning just because austerity is rejected - the problems will just be different ones and in a democracy people have the right to choose different problems!

Argentina caught a long commodities export boom, I think.

I don't think the austerity of bankruptcy and having a very weak new currency should be underestimated. What Syriza say about cancelling lots of debts is perfectly sensible, but the EU could hardball with structural funds.

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:15 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:"Dave monsters Ed as usual" - you might have picked a less obviously biased link

(they obviously missed the last two weeks, for a start)

Apols AK, it was the only one up on Youtube

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:15 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Ah, I see, Nick Robinson's glee is at getting to announce that the SNP are saying they will vote on English NHS budgets and related matters in the Westminster parliament.

So they should.

The Tories aren't half going to go for "vote for us or the Scotch will be holding you to ransom".

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:18 pm

Just what happened to this idea

And we need to change, and we will change, the way we behave. I'm fed up with the Punch and Judy politics of Westminster, the name calling, backbiting, point scoring, finger pointing.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/200 ... ervatives3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: ScreenShot00087.jpg (97.39 KiB) Viewed 7513 times

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:19 pm

Anybody got a link for non-beta comments of today's Politics Live? It hasn't been posted on there today

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:26 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Anybody got a link for non-beta comments of today's Politics Live? It hasn't been posted on there today

Here you go:

http://discussion.theguardian.com/discussion/p/453my" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a 'sticky' in the pub showing exactly how to do it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:45 pm

Sorry for posting such a long twitter exchange here ... but it seems to encapsulate the positions, arguments and points being made on here at regular intervals. And I think Owen Jones point on PR as a central bargaining chip is a good one.

Marcus John ‏@MarcusBirding 4h4 hours ago
Disappointing to read @OwenJones84 trying to convince Greens to help Labour in marginals. Owen, there's reasons why we don't trust Labour!

Owen Jones ‏@OwenJones84 3h3 hours ago
@MarcusBirding for the same reasons I’m angry with the Labour leadership? But does that mean you want a Tory government again?

Marcus John ‏@MarcusBirding 3h3 hours ago
@OwenJones84 Labour has failed us for decades. Can't vote for austerity-lite. We need a new party of left.

Owen Jones ‏@OwenJones84 2h2 hours ago
@MarcusBirding but how will more Tory MPs advance that? do you think necessary electoral form possible under another Tory government?

Marcus John ‏@MarcusBirding 2h2 hours ago
@OwenJones84 the political landscape is changing rapidly and a big national vote for the Greens will set us up for next election.

Owen Jones ‏@OwenJones84 2h2 hours ago
@MarcusBirding do you think leftish voters will vote Green again if they get a Tory government because of it? Like US Greens after 2000?

Marcus John ‏@MarcusBirding 2h2 hours ago
@OwenJones84 you are putting electoral tactics before policy and principle, thought you were one of the good guys!

‏@OwenJones84
@MarcusBirding no - I'm just putting a reality towards you which you don't like. we need PR. we don't have it. that's the problem.

Marcus John ‏@MarcusBirding 2h2 hours ago
@OwenJones84 exactly same argument used by your leadership to back down from genuine left policies! We need a REAL alternative to tories

Marcus John ‏@MarcusBirding 2h2 hours ago
@OwenJones84 Are Labour 100% committed to PR??

Owen Jones ‏@OwenJones84 2h2 hours ago
@MarcusBirding Not at all. But if they're the biggest party in a hung parliament, the small parties can make referendum condition of support

Marcus John ‏@MarcusBirding 2h2 hours ago
@OwenJones84 fair point. But I will still act and vote on principle not expediency

Owen Jones ‏@OwenJones84 2h2 hours ago
@MarcusBirding fair enough, but the only hope for a left-of-Labour party is PR, and that will never ever ever happen under the Tories.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 1:52 pm

And as a continuation of that discussion re what could Labour offer Green voters ... I see there is going to be a pivotal vote in Lancashire County Council on whether to approve applications for 2 further fracking exploration sites.

I looked up Lancashire County Council on wiki ... and it's no overall control ...

The council has 39 Labour Party councillors, 35 Conservative Party councillors, 6 Liberal Democrats, three independents and 1 Green Party councillor.

This is going to be very interesting.

Controversial Lancashire fracking plans face hurdle
Officials recommend that firm’s applications to develop two sites to explore for shale gas should not be approved
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... be-refused

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:00 pm

Alberto Nardelli @AlbertoNardelli · 5m 5 minutes ago
New @ipsosmoriscot poll:

SNP 52%(55 seats)
LAB 24%(4)
CON 12%
LDEM 4%
GRN 4%

Even Jim Murphy would lose his seat.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/new ... on-impact/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:03 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Alberto Nardelli @AlbertoNardelli · 5m 5 minutes ago
New @ipsosmoriscot poll:

SNP 52%(55 seats)
LAB 24%(4)
CON 12%
LDEM 4%
GRN 4%

Even Jim Murphy would lose his seat.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/new ... on-impact/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

52? How come that isn't matching the local election results by any stretch?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:13 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Willow904 wrote:I thought I would share this from Michael Rosen because it's exactly how I feel when listening to the media talking as if austerity is the only possible option rather than a choice:

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/ ... l?spref=tw

Argentina has been cited by Syriza as an example of life after default. They have a very good point. The world won't stop turning just because austerity is rejected - the problems will just be different ones and in a democracy people have the right to choose different problems!
Argentina caught a long commodities export boom, I think.

I don't think the austerity of bankruptcy and having a very weak new currency should be underestimated. What Syriza say about cancelling lots of debts is perfectly sensible, but the EU could hardball with structural funds.

Well I don't have a huge knowledge of Argentina but my general impression is that they've had a horribly rough time over the last 12 years or so and are still in quite a mess (defaulting again quite recently, I believe). Default would, as you say, be horrendous for Greece, but then that's kind of my point - austerity has already been horrendous for Greece and still is. Talking about how terrible default would be kind of implies austerity hasn't been terrible and that's the part of the message constantly drummed out by the media - austerity is the only way and it's worth the pain - that I object to. The way I see it, there are, in fact, lots of different ways you can inflict extreme hardship on a country, default being an example, and no one has made a case, as far as I can see, as to how austerity reduces debt given it's essentially deflationary and when you owe money you could really use a little inflation to make your debts easier to pay.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:13 pm

Unemployment is in freefall. So why aren't we feeling it?
People are working, but work doesn't pay. Employment is up, but tax revenue is down. The economy is humming again, yet Britain is still in debt. What exactly is going on?

From a Telegraph article with some very clear graphs, explaining how a low wage economy doesn't generate taxes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general ... ng-it.html

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:14 pm

Edited to remove double post

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:17 pm

: UKIP leaflet remove cars from benefit claimants.jpg (41.12 KiB) Viewed 7442 times

Toby Perkins MP ‏@tobyperkinsmp 7m7 minutes ago
RT @AtosMiraclesfb #UKIP flyer says that benefits claimants should have their cars removed! < Is this true @UKIP?

Of course, they wouldn't have thought how impossible this would probably make finding and getting to work for many people? Nor that they actually have cars because they paid for them before they needed to claim benefits? Or that these may be cars for disabled people?

It's not 'a common sense policy' - it's just nasty them and us garbage speak.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:18 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Alberto Nardelli @AlbertoNardelli · 5m 5 minutes ago
New @ipsosmoriscot poll:

SNP 52%(55 seats)
LAB 24%(4)
CON 12%
LDEM 4%
GRN 4%

Even Jim Murphy would lose his seat.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/new ... on-impact/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Couple of tweets:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Siraj Datoo ‏@dats 7m7 minutes ago
Sample size of IPSOS Mori poll: 600ish. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Ben Page, Ipsos MORI
‏@benatipsosmori
@dats margin of error c 4% assuming normal distribution

A poll of 650 certainty to vote with a MOE of 4% is unreliable imo but hopefully AK will comment on it shortly.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:21 pm

If a polling company only asks newspaper readers, and most UK newspapers are shamelessly right wing, doesn't that mean that any polling resulting from it is going to be skewed in favour of right wing opinions? Just wondering.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:27 pm

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 24m 24 minutes ago
@IpsosMORI Scotland poll is only one to be carried out by phone using Scotland based interviewers. Shy unionists??

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 26m 26 minutes ago
So three Scottish polls in four days
SNP leads ranging from 10% to 28% - that is some difference

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:28 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:
Unemployment is in freefall. So why aren't we feeling it?
People are working, but work doesn't pay. Employment is up, but tax revenue is down. The economy is humming again, yet Britain is still in debt. What exactly is going on?
From a Telegraph article with some very clear graphs, explaining how a low wage economy doesn't generate taxes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general ... ng-it.html

I just saw that and stuck it on AS.

That bit near the bottom:

Citi’s report puts it bluntly. Osborne’s policies have “greatly reduced the extent to which economic recovery generates a fiscal dividend.” The flow of people into work “no longer yields much income tax revenue, and nor does it save much in benefits.” Tax receipts will only improve if jobs higher up the payscale start opening up – or if pay levels rise enough across the board. Britain has bypassed its fears of a ‘jobless recovery’. Now it must solve the problem of ‘incomeless jobs’.

Well I never...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:36 pm

Never driven,but may start,just to annoy the ~~~ts

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:39 pm

Whoops.

Comptroller and Auditor General’s Report on the Department for Education financial statements 2013-14

The inability of the DfE to prepare financial statements providing a true and fair view of financial activity by its group of bodies means that it is not meeting the accountability requirements of Parliament.

http://www.nao.org.uk/report/comptrolle ... 2013-14-2/

And the problem?

Since 2012-13, the Department’s group financial statements have consolidated the financial statements of academy trusts, alongside those of the Department itself, its executive agencies and NDPBs. For 2013-14, there are 2,591 bodies consolidated into the group financial statements. This includes 2,585 academy trusts operating 3,905 individual academies.

The Department has a different reporting period from that of the academy trusts. The former must produce its financial statements by a year end of 31 March whereas the trusts have a year end of 31 August (to align with the end of the school year). This presents the Department with the significant challenge of preparing financial statements which provide a true and fair view of the financial activity for the period in question and the financial position at the end of that period.

The Department has chosen not to change the reporting period for the trusts.

So...liberating all of those schools which in their LAs prepared accounts to the end of March like all government departments, and turning them into academy trusts who prepare them to the end of August has resulted...in a mess.

I'm shocked, shocked, that no-one foresaw this happening at the outset...

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:42 pm

Unbelievable !

Cons have prepared a PPB & used IFS's Paul Johnson's comments at the front of it as if it were an endorsement !!

Happily he has objected & demanded they be removed.

http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/ ... video.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:45 pm

Reforming a failing jobs market is more important than reforming welfare
Benefit sanctions target the most vulnerable workers, and do nothing to tackle the real problem – poor labour laws and a lack of skilled roles
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -sanctions

She means the kind of welfare 'reforms' introduced by IDS ... which are doing nothing to improve the prospects and reality for the vast majority.

... The most common kind of family poverty, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation reports time and again, is in working families. Their latest estimate is that 8 million people are now living below the minimum income standard.

Now consider this: if the Conservatives are back in power after 7 May, George Osborne, who wants to stay on as chancellor to “finish the job”, has factored in another £12bn of welfare cuts. That can only be done by meting out more punishment to blameless and vulnerable people.

But it will do nothing at all to tackle the cause of the problem, because the government doesn’t recognise it as a problem at all: the regime of labour laws that makes it so much easier for employers to have an easy-come, easy-go attitude to workers than it is to take them on, train them and then retrain them is considered one of Britain’s best selling points. How much research will it take to join the dots, and see that reforming welfare when the jobs market is bust isn’t a solution. It’s just a way of creating another problem.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 2:48 pm

pk1 wrote:Unbelievable !

Cons have prepared a PPB & used IFS's Paul Johnson's comments at the front of it as if it were an endorsement !!

Happily he has objected & demanded they be removed.

http://www.politicshome.com/uk/article/ ... video.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes - he was on WATO talking about it. To give her some credit Anna Soubry didn't try to defend Shapps (for yes, it is his work again!) - she said that clearly if someone's words had been taken and used, and then edited, all without their permission it was wrong and they should of course be removed.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:03 pm

Nuff said.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:19 pm

Otto English @Otto_English · 4h 4 hours ago
GP and #UKIP candidate accuses member of public of 'only contributing Piles and STDs' to the NHS @UKIPWellingboro http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/01/20/ukip-pp ... cusations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I find it rather disconcerting that this 'news' is being reported by EDLnews though ... far right against far right? I thought they were lining up to support Farage and co.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:20 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
I know little enough about this to make much sense, but my foggy understanding is that the 'cyclical' and 'structural' parts of the deficit are notoriously hard to calculate, have a nasty habit of affecting each other, and some economists don't even accept the idea in the first place

Well quite.

Remember the row and the "let's all poke Ed Balls with the deficit stick" a couple of years back when the OECD said that the UK structural deficit before entering the recession was over 5%?

At the time I thought that if it's taken you 5 years to actually calculate that, then it's pretty damn all use to anyone apart from economic historians.

If a structural deficit is a constantly moving figure based on what's happened since then it's of little use to current policy makers IMO.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:25 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: It's not 'a common sense policy' - it's just nasty them and us garbage speak.
That's pretty terrible. Less so but still worrying is the declaration that bicycles would be relegated to the pavement in Ukip Britain. For one thing, this would increase collisions with pedestrians massively. For another thing, what do they mean 'back to the pavement'? Bicycles were using roads before motor vehicles were! Cycles don't hold up traffic, they are traffic! They don't cause congestion, they reduce it. Can you imagine what would happen if every cyclist in London switched to a car? Cycling isn't a 'past time' (sic), it's a way of life for many people, the best or only way to get to work for many others. Ukip pursuing the Top Gear vote evidently.

I spotted that too Robert - and remembering back to how dodgy and dangerous it was when there were just the few renegades riding their bikes on pavements, thought how stupid can you get. It really is a collection of complete garbage speak. They seem to want to sort us into a hierarchy of transport methods ... pedestrians only good for being flattened, bikes only on pavements not on roads, benefit claimants not allowed in cars only on buses (or walking presumably because they're sure to all be lazy and obese), indigenous taxpayers the only ones who gets to travel in their own cars on lovely smooth roads without potholes.

Editing to add: It's a gift to Al Murray Pub Landlord. I'm sure he could demolish the combo UKIP transport and welfare policy - and come up with even better 'common sense' ideas.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:26 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Alberto Nardelli @AlbertoNardelli · 5m 5 minutes ago
New @ipsosmoriscot poll:

SNP 52%(55 seats)
LAB 24%(4)
CON 12%
LDEM 4%
GRN 4%

Even Jim Murphy would lose his seat.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/new ... on-impact/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
52? How come that isn't matching the local election results by any stretch?

Looks as if the Greens & SNP are going to give Cameron a win, just to serve their own long term interests.

I hope they dare not moan about what happens to our country if they deliver us the Tories.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:29 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Otto English @Otto_English · 4h 4 hours ago
GP and #UKIP candidate accuses member of public of 'only contributing Piles and STDs' to the NHS @UKIPWellingboro http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/01/20/ukip-pp ... cusations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
I find it rather disconcerting that this 'news' is being reported by EDLnews though ... far right against far right? I thought they were lining up to support Farage and co.

EDL News is an anti-right wing site not pro. It's safe...

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:34 pm

yahyah wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
52? How come that isn't matching the local election results by any stretch?

Looks as if the Greens & SNP are going to give Cameron a win, just to serve their own long term interests.

I hope they dare not moan about what happens to our country if they deliver us the Tories.

I still think it's 'Labour's to win'.
52% is frankly ridiculous. The Scottish independence referendum Yes of 45% had a good showing in the under 18's. I'm guessing to get to 52% that's a huge chunk of the No/Scottish Labour 2010 vote.

Looking forward to AK's thoughts on this.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:34 pm

yahyah wrote:Looks as if the Greens & SNP are going to give Cameron a win, just to serve their own long term interests.

I hope they dare not moan about what happens to our country if they deliver us the Tories.

I just hope they can live with the consequences. Not that I'd be there to see them.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:36 pm

Have we seen the DT story about the somewhat alarming file found about 80s sexual abuse?

Secret government file on 'unnatural' sexual behaviour at Westminster unearthed

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rthed.html

A secret government file detailing "unnatural" sexual behaviour taking place at Westminster 35 years ago has been unearthed at the National Archives.

The documents were held in the Prime Minister's file series in the 1980s suggesting that the late Baroness Thatcher, the then Prime Minister, may have seen them.

The Cabinet Office has said that the file will be made available to the inquiry into historic child abuse.

The document was uncovered by Dr Chris Murphy, a security and intelligence expert, who was alerted to its title: "PREM19/588 -SECURITY. Allegations against former public [missing word] of unnatural sexual proclivities; security aspects 1980 Oct 27 - 1981 Mar 20."

But this beggars belief...

Sir Bernard Ingham told Sky News that he did not recall the file but both he and Mrs Thatcher were aware of allegations against a Government minister in the early 1980s.

He said: "I asked him about it and he denied it, so no, I didn't do anything else. What was the alternative?"

No wonder the Tory press want to do a "Look! A squirrel!" on Labour/PIE not-very-clear-links-at-all when the alternative is looking at this.

I often wonder what the press already know and are keeping very quiet about. Wasn't there a paper that was supposed to be good at rooting out stuff like this...News of the World or something?

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:36 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Otto English @Otto_English · 4h 4 hours ago
GP and #UKIP candidate accuses member of public of 'only contributing Piles and STDs' to the NHS @UKIPWellingboro http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/01/20/ukip-pp ... cusations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
I find it rather disconcerting that this 'news' is being reported by EDLnews though ... far right against far right? I thought they were lining up to support Farage and co.

EDL news are not EDL supporters are they ? I understood they highlighted whatever nonsense the EDL / UKIP come out with ?

My OH got a link to a fake Tesco story the other day - turns out EDL news had already proved it was a myth & Tesco confirmed it.

Doh, must learn to refresh before posting because Roger has already answered.....

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:40 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Otto English @Otto_English · 4h 4 hours ago
GP and #UKIP candidate accuses member of public of 'only contributing Piles and STDs' to the NHS @UKIPWellingboro http://edlnews.co.uk/2015/01/20/ukip-pp ... cusations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
I find it rather disconcerting that this 'news' is being reported by EDLnews though ... far right against far right? I thought they were lining up to support Farage and co.
EDL News is an anti-right wing site not pro. It's safe...

Thank you for telling me. That makes more sense ... it was very disconcerting the other way round.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:42 pm

Sorry, was a little trigger happy with my post.

Had just come back from two hours of hill walking, low blood sugar & hungry and saw the poll posts.

Hopefully the polls are outliers.

& was that Green thing with Bennett & Lucas using the terms 'boys' real or a piss take ?
Didn't think much of it if it was real.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:43 pm

Mike Smithson's comments on that Ipsos Mori Scottish poll:

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 57m 57 minutes ago
Funny how a party that's 28% ahead can be making such heavy weather in local by elections

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 59m 59 minutes ago
Scottish polls should be weighted by referendum vote. Ipsos MORI has no political weighting

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:43 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:The way I see it, there are, in fact, lots of different ways you can inflict extreme hardship on a country, default being an example, and no one has made a case, as far as I can see, as to how austerity reduces debt given it's essentially deflationary and when you owe money you could really use a little inflation to make your debts easier to pay.
The 'argument' I recall hearing in 2010 was that the 'structural deficit' was part of the deficit that you could reduce by cutting spending and would magically have no effect whatsoever on the economy. When people spoke up in favour of stimulating growth, the response was always 'ah, but that only deals with the cyclical deficit - what about the structural deficit?'

The last time I heard the phrase 'structural deficit' used in the MSM was a couple of years ago when some figures had been released showing that the deficit was down, and all was joyful and triumphant, until Robert Peston mentioned that the bit of the deficit that had come down was cyclical and the structural deficit was untouched.

I know little enough about this to make much sense, but my foggy understanding is that the 'cyclical' and 'structural' parts of the deficit are notoriously hard to calculate, have a nasty habit of affecting each other, and some economists don't even accept the idea in the first place, so I don't know how Peston knew this or how it was calculated. But my point is that the idea of a structural deficit was at the heart of Osborne's plans while it suited him then dropped like the proverbial hot potato when it didn't. And the media has just gone along with it.

I think the weirdest thing George Osborne ever did was break the link between benefits and inflation by capping benefit rises to 1% and then drawing attention to how this interferes with the automatic stabilisers by then adopting the phrase "I'm allowing the automatic stabilisers to work". All it did was draw attention to the fact that by capping benefits, preventing the automatic stabilisers from working fully was actually exactly what he was doing. It was such a blatant lie I'm still struggling to understand how he didn't get hammered on it. It seems the MSM will accept any level of deception or incompetence as long as Ed Miliband is kept out office.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:43 pm

The government’s multibillion-pound academies programme, in which thousands of schools have been taken out of local authority control and directly managed from Whitehall, has thrown the Department for Education’s finances into disarray.

In an extremely rare move, the National Audit Office, the public spending watchdog, has issued an “adverse opinion” on the department’s financial statements, indicating that it does not trust the accuracy of the DfE’s figures and is unable to assess whether it is providing value for money.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... e-finances

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:44 pm

yahyah wrote:Sorry, was a little trigger happy with my post.

Had just come back from two hours of hill walking, low blood sugar & hungry and saw the poll posts.

Hopefully the polls are outliers.

& was that Green thing with Bennett & Lucas using the terms 'boys' real or a piss take ?
Didn't think much of it if it was real.

Very real I'm afraid

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:52 pm

yahyah wrote:Sorry, was a little trigger happy with my post.

Had just come back from two hours of hill walking, low blood sugar & hungry and saw the poll posts.

Hopefully the polls are outliers.

& was that Green thing with Bennett & Lucas using the terms 'boys' real or a piss take ?
Didn't think much of it if it was real.

I thought it was real.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:52 pm

pk1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Sorry, was a little trigger happy with my post.

Had just come back from two hours of hill walking, low blood sugar & hungry and saw the poll posts.

Hopefully the polls are outliers.

& was that Green thing with Bennett & Lucas using the terms 'boys' real or a piss take ?
Didn't think much of it if it was real.
Very real I'm afraid

Imagine how pissed off Lucas & Bennett's fans would be if Labour had put out a PR stunt calling them 'girls'.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 21 Jan, 2015 3:56 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Willow904 wrote:The way I see it, there are, in fact, lots of different ways you can inflict extreme hardship on a country, default being an example, and no one has made a case, as far as I can see, as to how austerity reduces debt given it's essentially deflationary and when you owe money you could really use a little inflation to make your debts easier to pay.
The 'argument' I recall hearing in 2010 was that the 'structural deficit' was part of the deficit that you could reduce by cutting spending and would magically have no effect whatsoever on the economy. When people spoke up in favour of stimulating growth, the response was always 'ah, but that only deals with the cyclical deficit - what about the structural deficit?'

The last time I heard the phrase 'structural deficit' used in the MSM was a couple of years ago when some figures had been released showing that the deficit was down, and all was joyful and triumphant, until Robert Peston mentioned that the bit of the deficit that had come down was cyclical and the structural deficit was untouched.

I know little enough about this to make much sense, but my foggy understanding is that the 'cyclical' and 'structural' parts of the deficit are notoriously hard to calculate, have a nasty habit of affecting each other, and some economists don't even accept the idea in the first place, so I don't know how Peston knew this or how it was calculated. But my point is that the idea of a structural deficit was at the heart of Osborne's plans while it suited him then dropped like the proverbial hot potato when it didn't. And the media has just gone along with it.

There was a very good linked article a few days back on here from Pieras (I think it's called) that deconstructed pretty much all the economic arguments and tried to define various terms. I'll see if I can find the link again, since structural and cyclic deficits were part of it.

Expect an edit here, or, if the threads rushed on, I'll post afresh.

[Edit]

And here it is, and it's a damn good read:

http://www.pieria.co.uk/articles/the_my ... al_deficit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;