Monday 8th September 2014

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 3:27 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote: All valid, but the devil will be in every detail of independence, and to ignore or skate over little inconveniences - like the ramifications of using the pound but not being in fiscal union - is a bit like crossing the M6 on a busy day wearing a blindfold: you might make it to the other side if you're very lucky, but it would be a foolish person who'd believe that that could end well.
As I recall it didn't end too well for the Irish Republic. As much as people try to tell me this is a whole different ballgame I can't see the difference.
Well, quite. I'm not saying that the Scots can't make it work, but if were Scottish and voting, I'd want to know a damn sight more about the concrete plans for the numerous grey areas.

As da yoof say (or so I am told), tru dat!

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 3:33 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote: All valid, but the devil will be in every detail of independence, and to ignore or skate over little inconveniences - like the ramifications of using the pound but not being in fiscal union - is a bit like crossing the M6 on a busy day wearing a blindfold: you might make it to the other side if you're very lucky, but it would be a foolish person who'd believe that that could end well.

Westminster hold all the aces when it comes to negotiation. As far as I can see, the only card the nats have is Faslane - and keeping it might well be the price of entering NATO.
Carrying out the threat to walk away from UK debt is a sure fire way to walk away from a share of the assets.
rUK hold the tax-collecting system, DVLA, the DWP infrastructure etc - plus EU and NATO membership.
There seems to be an assumption in the pro-independence lobby that if we vote 'no', the sword of Damocles will fall from Westminster, whereas a 'yes' vote will result in them getting everything they ask for.
The grim truth is that in any negotiations, rUK will be aiming for the best deal for itself - and as I said, it holds all the aces.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 3:46 pm

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/crist ... -the-left/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Know your enemy.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 3:51 pm

StephenDolan wrote:http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/crist ... -the-left/

Know your enemy.

From the article:

Cristina Odone is a journalist, novelist and broadcaster specialising in the relationship between society, families and faith.

Sounds like one of those non-jobs the Tories are always going on about.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 3:51 pm

For ephemerid
Sorry to do a re post but the format has gone bonkers on the first. Tried to fix it 4 times but no can do.

Please don't keep your views to yourself ephemerid, I meant no disrespect to you, I hold a different view that's all.
When you say
"I don't think there was any direction of travel at all - well, I couldn't see any.....I'd be grate ful to know what you think it was"

It was a more equal, sharing less demonising society that Labour left when they left office, and that is a position I would like to get back to, and proceed with. We had 4 corners of society in place with health care, schooling and higher education, social security, job security (in the main) and an economy that - before the crash - was healthy enough to help pay for it. The tories took a wrecking ball to it all, but I see no reason why we can't put it back together again.
I'm sorry if you feel that I am tribalist, I'm not. I just genuinely feel we have a better chance at re building if we pull together than if we pull apart.
Sorry to have offended.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:00 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:For ephemerid
Sorry to do a re post but the format has gone bonkers on the first. Tried to fix it 4 times but no can do.

Please don't keep your views to yourself ephemerid, I meant no disrespect to you, I hold a different view that's all.
When you say
"I don't think there was any direction of travel at all - well, I couldn't see any.....I'd be grate ful to know what you think it was"

It was a more equal, sharing less demonising society that Labour left when they left office, and that is a position I would like to get back to, and proceed with. We had 4 corners of society in place with health care, schooling and higher education, social security, job security (in the main) and an economy that - before the crash - was healthy enough to help pay for it. The tories took a wrecking ball to it all, but I see no reason why we can't put it back together again.
I'm sorry if you feel that I am tribalist, I'm not. I just genuinely feel we have a better chance at re building if we pull together than if we pull apart.
Sorry to have offended.

No offence taken - or intended.

I suppose what you say about society being less demonising is right - that wouldn't have gained such traction had Labour been in charge - but still we're hearing the hardworkingfamilies crap and I'm sick of it. I wish they'd stop - all of them.

You're not really tribal, AAW - I know that. I'm just getting so annoyed with those who are that I get a bit prickly....

I'm still pro-Yes, and having friends up there campaigning (who do not like Salmond) and who are hard left, I'm aware that the discussion on the doorsteps is less about Salmond (who deserves some respect for getting indy this far) and more about what people want in their politics - and I'd like the chance to have the same. That's where my sympathies are, really.....self-interest!

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:02 pm

Lord Ashcroft's latest National Poll, hot off the Twitter press.

Ashcroft National Poll, 5-7 September: CON 28%, LAB 35%, LDEM 8%, UKIP 18%, GRN 6%.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:12 pm

Just a bit of fun 're.Scottish Referendum

http://www.channel4.com/news/indyref-sc ... voter-quiz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:13 pm

There's a TNS Scottish polling out at midnight tonight, for those who keep stupid hours, and I count myself amongst them.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:17 pm

ephemerid wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:For ephemerid
Sorry to do a re post but the format has gone bonkers on the first. Tried to fix it 4 times but no can do.

Please don't keep your views to yourself ephemerid, I meant no disrespect to you, I hold a different view that's all.
When you say
"I don't think there was any direction of travel at all - well, I couldn't see any.....I'd be grate ful to know what you think it was"

It was a more equal, sharing less demonising society that Labour left when they left office, and that is a position I would like to get back to, and proceed with. We had 4 corners of society in place with health care, schooling and higher education, social security, job security (in the main) and an economy that - before the crash - was healthy enough to help pay for it. The tories took a wrecking ball to it all, but I see no reason why we can't put it back together again.
I'm sorry if you feel that I am tribalist, I'm not. I just genuinely feel we have a better chance at re building if we pull together than if we pull apart.
Sorry to have offended.

No offence taken - or intended.

I suppose what you say about society being less demonising is right - that wouldn't have gained such traction had Labour been in charge - but still we're hearing the hardworkingfamilies crap and I'm sick of it. I wish they'd stop - all of them.

You're not really tribal, AAW - I know that. I'm just getting so annoyed with those who are that I get a bit prickly....

I'm still pro-Yes, and having friends up there campaigning (who do not like Salmond) and who are hard left, I'm aware that the discussion on the doorsteps is less about Salmond (who deserves some respect for getting indy this far) and more about what people want in their politics - and I'd like the chance to have the same. That's where my sympathies are, really.....self-interest!

All I can do is

One day, one day soon, we WILL get our society back. Promise.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:22 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Lord Ashcroft's latest National Poll, hot off the Twitter press.

Ashcroft National Poll, 5-7 September: CON 28%, LAB 35%, LDEM 8%, UKIP 18%, GRN 6%.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/as ... 8-green-6/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:22 pm

ephemerid wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:For ephemerid
Sorry to do a re post but the format has gone bonkers on the first. Tried to fix it 4 times but no can do.

Please don't keep your views to yourself ephemerid, I meant no disrespect to you, I hold a different view that's all.
When you say
"I don't think there was any direction of travel at all - well, I couldn't see any.....I'd be grate ful to know what you think it was"

It was a more equal, sharing less demonising society that Labour left when they left office, and that is a position I would like to get back to, and proceed with. We had 4 corners of society in place with health care, schooling and higher education, social security, job security (in the main) and an economy that - before the crash - was healthy enough to help pay for it. The tories took a wrecking ball to it all, but I see no reason why we can't put it back together again.
I'm sorry if you feel that I am tribalist, I'm not. I just genuinely feel we have a better chance at re building if we pull together than if we pull apart.
Sorry to have offended.

No offence taken - or intended.

I suppose what you say about society being less demonising is right - that wouldn't have gained such traction had Labour been in charge - but still we're hearing the hardworkingfamilies crap and I'm sick of it. I wish they'd stop - all of them.

You're not really tribal, AAW - I know that. I'm just getting so annoyed with those who are that I get a bit prickly....

I'm still pro-Yes, and having friends up there campaigning (who do not like Salmond) and who are hard left, I'm aware that the discussion on the doorsteps is less about Salmond (who deserves some respect for getting indy this far) and more about what people want in their politics - and I'd like the chance to have the same. That's where my sympathies are, really.....self-interest!

Getting what you want politically (independence and a chance to break the political mould) is one side to it, and I wouldn't pass up the same for myself down here in England for the same reasons. But it's the practicalities of the economics that will dictate what happens to Scotland in the event of independence, and there can be no fudging on what are fundamental questions.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:45 pm

Hi everyone,
finally made it here,nice to read all the comments today,especially re the referendum.I had little interest in the whole business until the CU thing cropped up,and though I have been in favour of Scotland becoming independent since I left there in 92,wtf is it with an iScotland expecting CU,green energy subsidies from the UK etc etc?
Anyway,here is one of the reasons I haven't had much time to mess around online (warning- big images):

: vp1KyMK.jpg (122.01 KiB) Viewed 17673 times

: 5EjT6sf.jpg (130.38 KiB) Viewed 17673 times

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:49 pm

Yikes,have I bigged up the whole page now?Sorry.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:55 pm

Rebecca wrote:Yikes,have I bigged up the whole page now?Sorry.

Beautiful dog though

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:56 pm

James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 41m
Worst tweet of all time (via @the100) MT "@PizzaExpress Congrats to William and Kate May we humbly suggest naming #RoyalBaby 'Pizza'?"

That is truly awful. What next - Ronald Macdonald? Nuggets?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:58 pm

Yeah - lovely dog. Bet he /she keeps you busy.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 4:59 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Lord Ashcroft's latest National Poll, hot off the Twitter press.

Ashcroft National Poll, 5-7 September: CON 28%, LAB 35%, LDEM 8%, UKIP 18%, GRN 6%.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/as ... 8-green-6/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Promising. Any idea what change, if any, that is from the last one?

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 5:04 pm

As if by magic:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -poll-lead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some of the comments BTL leave me completely gobsmacked. This is meant to be part of Project Fear? Really?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 5:05 pm

Robin Brant ‏@robindbrant 1m
STORY govt whips asking MPs for 'urgent' update on where they'll be over conf recess break in what may be initial plan for recall

Robin Brant ‏@robindbrant 51s
May be Scotland referendum fall out, may be IS related as Cameron prepares for Obama anno & UN meeting at end of month

Cameron's probably got some urgent COBRA meetings already scheduled in for just after the referendum results - just in case he needs a major squirrel for the public to look at and a pressing reason why his backbenchers can't immediately bay for his head ...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 5:06 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:As if by magic:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -poll-lead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some of the comments BTL leave me completely gobsmacked. This is meant to be part of Project Fear? Really?

I looked at that earlier today - and decided not to return - the tone was already set.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 5:08 pm

etweeted by Ben Harris-Quinney
ConservativeGR ‏@ToryGrassroots 54m
Clacton Conservatives Say They’ll Vote UKIP after Matthew Parris Comments http://bit.ly/1qH1JqS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; via @BreitbartNews

We are living in the strangest of strange times. The Conservatives seem to be out fruit-caking UKIP at the moment.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 5:11 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:As if by magic:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -poll-lead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some of the comments BTL leave me completely gobsmacked. This is meant to be part of Project Fear? Really?

There is a hint of paranoia btl isn't there.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 5:14 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:As if by magic:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -poll-lead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some of the comments BTL leave me completely gobsmacked. This is meant to be part of Project Fear? Really?
There is a hint of paranoia btl isn't there.

A hint of paranoia indeed, and a couple of posters who appear to have parked their intellects in a cupboard. I'd forgotten about the EU rules on a company's HQ - one of those details that could trip up the Scottish economy quite badly.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 5:20 pm

To give credit where's it's due that well known establishment stooge George Galloway has put in some hours on his ''Just say Naw'' tour, he's worked as hard as anyone, bet he enjoys being lumped together with the Westminster lot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29062461" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 5:25 pm

Rebecca wrote:Yikes,have I bigged up the whole page now?Sorry.

Who cares.

What a beautiful, beautiful pup....And it's so good to know you're okay...We've missed you...

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 5:27 pm

George Galloway on an independent Scotland, a race to the bottom against a Tory England, and on being told ''to get back to England'' ''I will go wherever I want'' too bloody right.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 6:03 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Yeah - lovely dog. Bet he /she keeps you busy.

She certainly does,and she runs rings around our 8 year old retriever.Very clever,and very naughty,though since I started to take her out a week ago she's less of a delinquent!

Post by **refitman** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 6:35 pm

Rebecca wrote:Yikes,have I bigged up the whole page now?Sorry.

No worries. Fixed it for you.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 6:55 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote: All valid, but the devil will be in every detail of independence, and to ignore or skate over little inconveniences - like the ramifications of using the pound but not being in fiscal union - is a bit like crossing the M6 on a busy day wearing a blindfold: you might make it to the other side if you're very lucky, but it would be a foolish person who'd believe that that could end well.
As I recall it didn't end too well for the Irish Republic. As much as people try to tell me this is a whole different ballgame I can't see the difference.
Let us assume Alex wins the vote 51 - 49.

Then six months down the line it becomes rapidly apparent that this is going to be really difficult, that people are going to be poorer, and that the outlook for the currency is dubious.

How is he going to carry people with him, especially as his bland assurances become increasingly exposed as lies?

My thoughts exactly. For good or bad, Independence is a divorce - not a trial separation. I have every sympathy for the Scottish "Yes" sentiment but I think it's more a heart than head thing in the light of the important questions which still remain unanswered. I hope the Scots don't make a decision which they come to regret and that, in the event of a "Yes" result things go well for them (and for the rest of the UK, because, obviously, we will all be affected one way or another).

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 6:56 pm

Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 16m
If the Scots vote "No" after Gordon Brown's intervention today, Gordon will be convinced a return as PM is on the cards. Genuinely.

He's come back from his hols even sadder and more skewed, if that's possible.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:01 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 16m
If the Scots vote "No" after Gordon Brown's intervention today, Gordon will be convinced a return as PM is on the cards. Genuinely.
He's come back from his hols even sadder and more skewed, if that's possible.

He's a bitter, sad bastard isn't he? Brown is working his socks off, and a supposed unionist, Hodges carps from the sidelines, wanker.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:02 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/crist ... -the-left/

Know your enemy.
From the article:
Cristina Odone is a journalist, novelist and broadcaster specialising in the relationship between society, families and faith.
Sounds like one of those non-jobs the Tories are always going on about.

Reheated Fraser Nelson. Funny how they never mention the Boards who choose the senior people at these charities, and who are presumably happy with these ex-Labour people working for them.

Surprise, surprise- the Boards look pretty much like the sort of people who've always run charities. Lots of them are businessmen, and lots are people who've worked in the sector for donkeys years. It's never explained why these people should suddenly form a Labour cabal.

Hilariously, she mentions CAFOD. She's a Catholic on the make herself. Perhaps she can go and tell Father Cormac Murphy-O'Connor and the rest that they're being played for fools by Labour.

What's the betting she wouldn't?

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:03 pm

Brown's speech just about to start btw. News 24 and Sky carrying it.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:04 pm

PorFavor wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: As I recall it didn't end too well for the Irish Republic. As much as people try to tell me this is a whole different ballgame I can't see the difference.
Let us assume Alex wins the vote 51 - 49.

Then six months down the line it becomes rapidly apparent that this is going to be really difficult, that people are going to be poorer, and that the outlook for the currency is dubious.

How is he going to carry people with him, especially as his bland assurances become increasingly exposed as lies?
My thoughts exactly. For good or bad, Independence is a divorce - not a trial separation. I have every sympathy for the Scottish "Yes" sentiment but I think it's more a heart than head thing in the light of the important questions which still remain unanswered. I hope the Scots don't make a decision which they come to regret and that, in the event of a "Yes" result things go well for them (and for the rest of the UK, because, obviously, we will all be affected one way or another).

Don't worry, when the deal has been worked out, the Nationalists will offer the electorate another Referendum.

Oh hang on.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:05 pm

I don't know who the warm-up man is but he's good, laying into the hypocrisy of the SNP.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:08 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:George Galloway on an independent Scotland, a race to the bottom against a Tory England, and on being told ''to get back to England'' ''I will go wherever I want'' too bloody right.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And indeed against Ireland, who've are pretty effective at that sort of thing.

An Irish bloke on another board reckoned the EU weren't very happy with Ireland's undercutting everyone. Scotland trying to do it will go down like a rat sandwich.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:22 pm

@Rebecca

Hello! You're back! (Pleases excuse the delayed reaction.)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:34 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges 16m
If the Scots vote "No" after Gordon Brown's intervention today, Gordon will be convinced a return as PM is on the cards. Genuinely.
He's come back from his hols even sadder and more skewed, if that's possible.
He's a bitter, sad bastard isn't he? Brown is working his socks off, and a supposed unionist, Hodges carps from the sidelines, wanker.

I thought you said you were going to try not to swear?

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:36 pm

refitman wrote:
Rebecca wrote:Yikes,have I bigged up the whole page now?Sorry.
No worries. Fixed it for you.

Thankyou.Actually,it was my son,showing me how to post photos in that condescending way they have!

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 7:39 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: He's come back from his hols even sadder and more skewed, if that's possible.
He's a bitter, sad bastard isn't he? Brown is working his socks off, and a supposed unionist, Hodges carps from the sidelines, wanker.

I thought you said you were going to try not to swear?

I know, but certain people bring out the worst in me.

Brown giving a good speech, if I was Scottish I would be heartened by it, but guess what, both Sky and the BBC have cut away..

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 8:00 pm

Fracking is a toxic issue for Conservative party grassroots
From protest camps to packed-out town hall meetings, shale gas and fracking is a major issue in safe Tory seats
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... grassroots

When parish councillor Chris Hesketh volunteered to form a local group to challenge plans to drill for gas in north Shropshire, he had little idea how people would respond. The rural constituency, held by former environment secretary Owen Paterson, is the safest Tory seat in the country and only rarely in 175 years has there been much opposition to the sitting MP.

In the event, more than 300 people packed the village hall, a local businessman pledged to run as an anti-fracking candidate in the next election, and a protest camp was set up. A record 481 objections have been made against the plans.

"The response was electric. It snowballed from minimum interest to over 50% of people in the area wanting to be involved", said Hesketh.

No - surely not?! According to Osborne and Dave - and Paterson himself, of course - these stalwart Tories should be falling over themselves, swooning at the prospect of raking in £100,000 for their community in return for the rape and pillage of their land.

Lesson Dave has still not learned. We don't all have the same 'value' system as your lot. Some of us value our landscape, our environment and our childrens' futures. So take your so called British values and stuff them where the sun don't shine Cameron.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 8:05 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote: He's a bitter, sad bastard isn't he? Brown is working his socks off, and a supposed unionist, Hodges carps from the sidelines, wanker.

I thought you said you were going to try not to swear?
I know, but certain people bring out the worst in me.

Brown giving a good speech, if I was Scottish I would be heartened by it, but guess what, both Sky and the BBC have cut away..

_______________________________________________________

Did you see this on Twitter?

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 1h
If the Union survives, history will now record Gordon Brown as the man who saved it.

I bet that'll cause anguished wailing and a great gnashing of teeth in the Tory Hierarchy

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 8:20 pm

Christ almighty, what a scumfest, about Rotherham's Chief Executive (from 2009).

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... mber-quits" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Given that he had only operational control of the council, and could do nothing about elected councillors or anyone in the Police, I don't think he can be judged too culpable.

Armchair lawyers want to prosecute him for not going to the aid of people in distress or something. Which would be a first.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 8:23 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
I thought you said you were going to try not to swear?
I know, but certain people bring out the worst in me.

Brown giving a good speech, if I was Scottish I would be heartened by it, but guess what, both Sky and the BBC have cut away..
_______________________________________________________

Did you see this on Twitter?

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 1h
If the Union survives, history will now record Gordon Brown as the man who saved it.

I bet that'll cause anguished wailing and a great gnashing of teeth in the Tory Hierarchy

Yes I did, and however much the Tory media, and cyber-nats, for sometimes they resemble one another, in their condemnation of Brown try to disguise the fact Brown is well respected in the central belt of Scotland.. Labour voters aplenty there.

I can see an all-nighter taking place on the 18th, these things have to be done.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 8:37 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Christ almighty, what a scumfest, about Rotherham's Chief Executive (from 2009).

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... mber-quits" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Given that he had only operational control of the council, and could do nothing about elected councillors or anyone in the Police, I don't think he can be judged too culpable.

Armchair lawyers want to prosecute him for not going to the aid of people in distress or something. Which would be a first.

It's definitely turning into a bit of a witch-hunt. Last week one of the presenters on the local BBC radio station was basically saying that the Labour Party throughout the whole of South Yorkshire should be blamed. He didn't give a reason why, he just said it mid-rant. If he's not careful he'll get himself fired for the 2nd time in a year.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 8:39 pm

Just dropping in.

I think I said the other day I was rather engaged by ephemerid's thoughts.

I am pro-Union, but not pro the Union we have. Is it really so fanciful to imagine a peaceful deconstruction of the current shambles and reconstitution of a modern, federal republic that is based on equality for all its citizens? It may be the only way for us all to release ourselves from the royals, the church, the bankers and the rest.

I'm not advocating a Yes vote, but I can see its merits.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 9:00 pm

Goodnight, everyone.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 9:05 pm

TNS Poll out, 50% apiece. Thought it was coming out at midnight?

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Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 08 Sep, 2014 9:07 pm

Should add it excludes the ''don't knows'' how you don't know this late into a long debate is beyond me. But hey ho each to their own.