FlyTheNest

yahyah wrote:I've always liked Tea & Chocolate who posts on Cif, but her post this morning epitomises the madness some on the left seem to be suffering from.

yahyah wrote:Poor Ernst. The joys of fatherhood eh ?

This 'surge' [how real remains to be seen] for Yes seems just like Clegg-mania back in late April 2010.

The wild optimism, the anger at Tories & Labour, the yearning for something new.
I nearly fell for Lib Dem lunacy so maybe I should be compassionate to those who are now Salmondistas.

I've always liked Tea & Chocolate who posts on Cif, but her post this morning epitomises the madness some on the left seem to be suffering from.

ErnstRemarx wrote:Yawns a bit.....

Morning everyone. Little sod has us up at 5 this morning. Very tired and irritable.

I hope everyone else's day is starting a little better than mine.

Nick Clegg ‏@nick_clegg 4m
On my way to launch the LD pre-manifesto this morning with policies designed to create a #StrongerEconomy and a #FairerSociety

rebeccariots2 wrote:I see CIFers have been quick to pick up and pour scorn on John Humphry's inevitable introduction of the concept of a 'politics of envy' when he was 'interviewing' Frances O'Grady about the growing wage and living standards inequality that the TUC are rightly highlighting.

So real hardship and not being able to put enough food on the table or a secure roof over your head becomes 'envy' - just like not being able to find a job that provides enough pay to live on, or even guarantees any actual work or pay has become 'not having the right attitude to get a job'.

I like Frances O'Grady and how she puts the issues facing ordinary people across. We need to hear more of her.

gilsey wrote:Good morning all, and belated thanks to Paul & Ernst for setting up the new haven.
Not that I had any problems with the old one, as we don't do mobile tech, no reception at home.

Picked up this link from the other place.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/opini ... .html?_r=0

Jeremy Cliffe ‏@JeremyCliffe 14m
Remarkably prescient piece by @JackieAshley in '09 predicted Cam premiership wld take UK to brink of Brexit & Scoxit: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... m-scotland" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Retweeted by Robin Brant
BritishMonarchy ‏@BritishMonarchy 2m
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are very pleased to announce that The Duchess of Cambridge is expecting their second child

AngryAsWell wrote:

(Golf's still on - sorry)

Quote:

Don't let me be last Queen of Scotland: Monarch in talks with PM over UK break up

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ch-4181230

Best thing they can do is send Him, Her and The Baby George up there on walk abouts..
One better..
Send Him, Her and The Baby George up there on walk abouts AND announce in Edinburgh (or Glasgow, not fussy) that She's having another baby AND that it will be called James (even if it a girl)

James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 4m
Congrats to Duchess of Cambridge, pregnant with her second child. Perhaps she could announce in advance it will be called Hamish #indyref

AngryAsWell wrote:I posted this last night
1) do I have second sight???
2) They should have gone to Scotland to announce it!

AngryAsWell wrote:

(Golf's still on - sorry)

Quote:

Don't let me be last Queen of Scotland: Monarch in talks with PM over UK break up

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... ch-4181230

Best thing they can do is send Him, Her and The Baby George up there on walk abouts..
One better..
Send Him, Her and The Baby George up there on walk abouts AND announce in Edinburgh (or Glasgow, not fussy) that She's having another baby AND that it will be called James (even if it a girl)

Toby Young ‏@toadmeister 2m
Complete balls from Francis O'Gravy-Train about "Downton Britain". Gap between rich and poor has shrunk in past 4 yrs http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29103503" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 wrote:

Nick Clegg ‏@nick_clegg 4m
On my way to launch the LD pre-manifesto this morning with policies designed to create a #StrongerEconomy and a #FairerSociety

Ooh, can't wait. 'Pre-manifesto' - that's telling us that these proposals have even less weight and commitment than their real manifesto I guess. So less than worthless then.

rebeccariots2 wrote:

Retweeted by Robin Brant
BritishMonarchy ‏@BritishMonarchy 2m
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are very pleased to announce that The Duchess of Cambridge is expecting their second child

Hah - I think AngryAsWell must have some special monarchy telepathic hotline going. Only last night she suggested that a visit by Him & Her to Scotland this week coupled with the announcement of a second baby on the way and that they are going to call it James (regardless of its sex) would do the No campaign a power of good!

Well - it looks like the fightback has started in earnest now!

rebeccariots2 wrote:Got to go and plant some beans quickly (yes, I know it's very late - it's a greenhouse experiment. Such is my love for french beans I can't contemplate autumn without any.)

Back in a bit.

Let me know if it's going to be twins AAW, please.

gilsey wrote:Good morning all, and belated thanks to Paul & Ernst for setting up the new haven.
Not that I had any problems with the old one, as we don't do mobile tech, no reception at home.

Picked up this link from the other place.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/opini ... .html?_r=0

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Early indications are that Wee Eck will suggest Kate Middleton is just bluffing.

pk1 wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

yahyah wrote:I've always liked Tea & Chocolate who posts on Cif, but her post this morning epitomises the madness some on the left seem to be suffering from.

I saw that. Doesn't trust Labour but does trust Salmond? Wow.

pk1 wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Early indications are that Wee Eck will suggest Kate Middleton is just bluffing.

That was what was being tweeted in my post ^^

rebeccariots2 wrote:Hello gilsey, nice to see you here.

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:

gilsey wrote:Good morning all, and belated thanks to Paul & Ernst for setting up the new haven.
Not that I had any problems with the old one, as we don't do mobile tech, no reception at home.

Picked up this link from the other place.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/opini ... .html?_r=0

Hi Gilsey

Great to see you here. For info, Refitman is the true genius behind the new forum

letsskiptotheleft wrote:You can bet your last quid if Scotland goes it will be Labour's fault, the murmurings have already started, here for example, it is also a fatalistic piece, rumours that Glasgow is going yes, Fife, Dundee also, once considered a safe unionist area. All conjecture at the moment, but I am finding it hard to believe it has come to this.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 wrote:I see CIFers have been quick to pick up and pour scorn on John Humphry's inevitable introduction of the concept of a 'politics of envy' when he was 'interviewing' Frances O'Grady about the growing wage and living standards inequality that the TUC are rightly highlighting.

So real hardship and not being able to put enough food on the table or a secure roof over your head becomes 'envy' - just like not being able to find a job that provides enough pay to live on, or even guarantees any actual work or pay has become 'not having the right attitude to get a job'.

I like Frances O'Grady and how she puts the issues facing ordinary people across. We need to hear more of her.

AnatolyKasparov wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

yahyah wrote:I've always liked Tea & Chocolate who posts on Cif, but her post this morning epitomises the madness some on the left seem to be suffering from.

I saw that. Doesn't trust Labour but does trust Salmond? Wow.

She has been very anti-Labour for a while now, regrettably.

HindleA wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote:I see CIFers have been quick to pick up and pour scorn on John Humphry's inevitable introduction of the concept of a 'politics of envy' when he was 'interviewing' Frances O'Grady about the growing wage and living standards inequality that the TUC are rightly highlighting.

So real hardship and not being able to put enough food on the table or a secure roof over your head becomes 'envy' - just like not being able to find a job that provides enough pay to live on, or even guarantees any actual work or pay has become 'not having the right attitude to get a job'.

I like Frances O'Grady and how she puts the issues facing ordinary people across. We need to hear more of her.

Ah the old chestnut "the politics of envy" .Of course the Government's modus operandi is based on this,targeted at those with less" but you're paying for it "

ephemerid wrote:

HindleA wrote:

rebeccariots2 wrote:I see CIFers have been quick to pick up and pour scorn on John Humphry's inevitable introduction of the concept of a 'politics of envy' when he was 'interviewing' Frances O'Grady about the growing wage and living standards inequality that the TUC are rightly highlighting.

So real hardship and not being able to put enough food on the table or a secure roof over your head becomes 'envy' - just like not being able to find a job that provides enough pay to live on, or even guarantees any actual work or pay has become 'not having the right attitude to get a job'.

I like Frances O'Grady and how she puts the issues facing ordinary people across. We need to hear more of her.

Ah the old chestnut "the politics of envy" .Of course the Government's modus operandi is based on this,targeted at those with less" but you're paying for it "

We have a brand new Tory politics of envy - have a job and a home, and envy those who have neither. It's the Tory way.

ephemerid wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote:

TheGrimSqueaker wrote: I saw that. Doesn't trust Labour but does trust Salmond? Wow.

She has been very anti-Labour for a while now, regrettably.

It's odd, isn't it?

Salmond is a politician like any other - they are all about expedience; the only real exception to this so far (in my humble opinion) is Miliband and I really hope he doesn't let me down. Sadly, I suspect he will at some point.....or maybe my disgust at what passes for political discourse in the UK at present has made me very cynical.....

Part of the reason I support the Yes campaign is because I want to see a real shake-up of the status-quo. This business over Scottish independence has galvanised people into really engaging with politics; it's not about Salmond, it's about how a country sees itself and how it wants to govern itself in the future.
Whilst I appreciate that some people have gone a bit too far in terms of nationalism (and in some cases unpleasantly so) I really think that this vote is not only important for Scotland but is important for the rest of us in the UK too. Even if more autonomy and proportional representation means that things may not necessarily go the way I'd like them to, it's better in my view to have a truly representative assembly than what we have now, and if it takes the Scots to show us how, so be it.

Nye Bevan was prescient when he said that his hatred of the Tories would not succumb to "cajolery" or "attempts at ethical or social seduction" - which is exactly what Osborne was doing yesterday. They have learned nothing from history and they are learning nothing from what's happening now.
I would support the Union if I felt this country really was united; it isn't, and the cesspit that is Westminster is to blame. I do not believe that keeping things as they are, and hoping that change will come via the rigged ballot box, will effect the change we need in this country.
Scotland is engaged in an experiment that may well fail, but I admire the courage and persistence that has got them to this point, and I wish we had enough of either south of the border to really challenge the way things are run. I continue to campaign for Labour and I'll soldier on - but I'm under no illusions that things will change much if Labour win next time unless the grass-roots are able to force the leadership to move further left.

I agree that some people are getting very carried away though - T&C is just one of them, and I think we'll see more of it.

AngryAsWell wrote:

ephemerid wrote:

AnatolyKasparov wrote: She has been very anti-Labour for a while now, regrettably.

It's odd, isn't it?

Salmond is a politician like any other - they are all about expedience; the only real exception to this so far (in my humble opinion) is Miliband and I really hope he doesn't let me down. Sadly, I suspect he will at some point.....or maybe my disgust at what passes for political discourse in the UK at present has made me very cynical.....

Part of the reason I support the Yes campaign is because I want to see a real shake-up of the status-quo. This business over Scottish independence has galvanised people into really engaging with politics; it's not about Salmond, it's about how a country sees itself and how it wants to govern itself in the future.
Whilst I appreciate that some people have gone a bit too far in terms of nationalism (and in some cases unpleasantly so) I really think that this vote is not only important for Scotland but is important for the rest of us in the UK too. Even if more autonomy and proportional representation means that things may not necessarily go the way I'd like them to, it's better in my view to have a truly representative assembly than what we have now, and if it takes the Scots to show us how, so be it.

Nye Bevan was prescient when he said that his hatred of the Tories would not succumb to "cajolery" or "attempts at ethical or social seduction" - which is exactly what Osborne was doing yesterday. They have learned nothing from history and they are learning nothing from what's happening now.
I would support the Union if I felt this country really was united; it isn't, and the cesspit that is Westminster is to blame. I do not believe that keeping things as they are, and hoping that change will come via the rigged ballot box, will effect the change we need in this country.
Scotland is engaged in an experiment that may well fail, but I admire the courage and persistence that has got them to this point, and I wish we had enough of either south of the border to really challenge the way things are run. I continue to campaign for Labour and I'll soldier on - but I'm under no illusions that things will change much if Labour win next time unless the grass-roots are able to force the leadership to move further left.

I agree that some people are getting very carried away though - T&C is just one of them, and I think we'll see more of it.

Sorry but I just see this scenario as the road to total chaos. This country is only so disunited because of Crosby and his divide and rule politics. Pre-Crosby we knew the direction of travel we were taking and I don't see why - post Crosby - we cannot get back on track.

Labour leader Ed Miliband has promised to devolve £30bn of spending to the English regions to boost economic growth outside London

Labour leader Ed Miliband has promised to devolve £30bn of spending to the English regions to boost economic growth outside London

DailySunday Politics ‏@daily_politics 4m
VIDEO Lib Dem general election plans 'considerably less expensive' than 2010 David Laws tells @Jo_Coburn on #bbcdp

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29111575" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

ErnstRemarx wrote:"I'm aware that very few people on this forum are pro-Scottish independence. I feel a bit wary of posting my views here on the subject as a result - but I certainly don't think my wish for real change in our politics is all that unusual."

Your posts and views are always very welcome, so don't you dare tone it down. My anti-independence stance is based almost purely around the economics of the thing, rather than the principle. I certainly understand that for many Scots this is the only chance they'll get to rid themselves of perpetual Tory rule and the sort of nonsense that New Labour come out with all too often. It's quite true that the Westminster government has had a long time to do good in Scotland, and that Scots have had a rough time over the years. It's also true that pretty well everywhere else in the UK has also been on the shitty end of the stick for a long time, but the English regions aren't being presented with a one off chance to get out.

The problem with the no more Tories argument, is that it presumes that rule from Scotland won't be venal and corrupt, and that a right wing government can never occur in Scotland. The biggest problem though is the economics of the situation and jam tomorrow argument simply doesn't look at the facts head on.

I hope that Scotland stays in the UK - but I will understand if the people of Scotland vote to go, and will wish them good luck; I suspect that they'll need it.

IEA ‏@iealondon 2m
Tenants face high rents & restricted choice if tenancy rent controls are introduced in the UK. http://www.iea.org.uk/in-the-media/pres ... affordable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … pic.twitter.com/xDtS4iy3io

rebeccariots2 wrote:

ErnstRemarx wrote:"I'm aware that very few people on this forum are pro-Scottish independence. I feel a bit wary of posting my views here on the subject as a result - but I certainly don't think my wish for real change in our politics is all that unusual."

Your posts and views are always very welcome, so don't you dare tone it down. My anti-independence stance is based almost purely around the economics of the thing, rather than the principle. I certainly understand that for many Scots this is the only chance they'll get to rid themselves of perpetual Tory rule and the sort of nonsense that New Labour come out with all too often. It's quite true that the Westminster government has had a long time to do good in Scotland, and that Scots have had a rough time over the years. It's also true that pretty well everywhere else in the UK has also been on the shitty end of the stick for a long time, but the English regions aren't being presented with a one off chance to get out.

The problem with the no more Tories argument, is that it presumes that rule from Scotland won't be venal and corrupt, and that a right wing government can never occur in Scotland. The biggest problem though is the economics of the situation and jam tomorrow argument simply doesn't look at the facts head on.

I hope that Scotland stays in the UK - but I will understand if the people of Scotland vote to go, and will wish them good luck; I suspect that they'll need it.

That more or less describes where I am on this too, Ernst. Except that I think I'm probably basing my desire for Scotland to stay in the union more on heart and soul stuff than the economics. But I too will totally understand why Scotland may choose to go it alone ... for anyone and anywhere not part of the charmed Establishment / Westminster circle - it's been bloody attrition for a long time and very little hope.

ErnstRemarx wrote: All valid, but the devil will be in every detail of independence, and to ignore or skate over little inconveniences - like the ramifications of using the pound but not being in fiscal union - is a bit like crossing the M6 on a busy day wearing a blindfold: you might make it to the other side if you're very lucky, but it would be a foolish person who'd believe that that could end well.

rebeccariots2 wrote:

DailySunday Politics ‏@daily_politics 4m
VIDEO Lib Dem general election plans 'considerably less expensive' than 2010 David Laws tells @Jo_Coburn on #bbcdp

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29111575" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Cut price policies now. Are they trying to rebrand themselves as the Aldi amongst political parties? Still not buying it or them.

AAW wrote:Sorry but I just see this scenario as the road to total chaos. This country is only so disunited because of Crosby and his divide and rule politics. Pre-Crosby we knew the direction of travel we were taking and I don't see why - post Crosby - we cannot get back on track.

Labour leader Ed Miliband has promised to devolve £30bn of spending to the English regions to boost economic growth outside London

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

ErnstRemarx wrote: All valid, but the devil will be in every detail of independence, and to ignore or skate over little inconveniences - like the ramifications of using the pound but not being in fiscal union - is a bit like crossing the M6 on a busy day wearing a blindfold: you might make it to the other side if you're very lucky, but it would be a foolish person who'd believe that that could end well.

As I recall it didn't end too well for the Irish Republic. As much as people try to tell me this is a whole different ballgame I can't see the difference.

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:

ErnstRemarx wrote: All valid, but the devil will be in every detail of independence, and to ignore or skate over little inconveniences - like the ramifications of using the pound but not being in fiscal union - is a bit like crossing the M6 on a busy day wearing a blindfold: you might make it to the other side if you're very lucky, but it would be a foolish person who'd believe that that could end well.

As I recall it didn't end too well for the Irish Republic. As much as people try to tell me this is a whole different ballgame I can't see the difference.