Friday 30th January 2015

[rebeccariots2]

Oh my cup of sick overflows .... they've got D F Hodges in for a WATO disembowelling of Labour. Of course he's talking about a Labour defeat - apparently there's an increasing sense within the Labour party that they can't win - and Labour having 'blown up' over the NHS.

[AnatolyKasparov]

George Eaton @georgeeaton · 1h 1 hour ago
Ivan Lewis on Milburn and Hutton: "They would have been the very people lecturing others about ill-discipline". http://bit.ly/1zlDHpX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

George Eaton @georgeeaton · 1h 1 hour ago
"Self-indulgent" Milburn and Hutton must remember need for Labour unity, shadow cabinet minister Ivan Lewis tells me http://bit.ly/1zlDHpX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apart from anything else, Milburn was unbelievably STUPID.

This has given a massive boost to the "Blairites will be to blame if the worst happens in May" meme (something that has completely escaped the present incarnation of Hugo, gloating as he is about Labour's "coming defeat" at the other place today)

[Willow904]

Afternoon all (including newbie Rednorth!)

The Mirror has compiled a handy list of Cameron "fibs". No. 9 is particularly outrageous, but they're all pretty bad:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... es-5068474
FIB 9 The number of kids in workless homes doubled under Labour.

On January 25, 2012, Cameron spoke of “the real shame… that there are so many millions of children who live in households where nobody works and indeed that number doubled under the previous government”.

In fact, according to the Office for National Statistics, the number of children living in workless households fell by 372,000 between April-June 1997 and April-June 2010.

[RogerOThornhill]

Just looking through the Ofsted reports and came across a s.8 for The Voyager Academy - the third since special measures in Feb 2014.

They've been an academy since Sept 2011 and I guess at that time they were a grade 3.

Having considered all the evidence I am of the opinion that at this time:
The academy is not making enough progress towards the removal of special measures.

OK...down the bottom...

External support
Additional support brokered recently by the sponsor academy trust is aiding improvement by providing expert assistance in key subjects and in the student support department to help them increase their effectiveness. These procedures are new and have not yet lead to the significant improvement required to remove the academy from special measures.

The local authority continues to work collaboratively with the academy. Regular communication with senior leaders enables it to monitor how well it is doing, broker additional support to aid its improvement and foster links with other providers in the City.

Goes with this idea from Morgan that academy trusts aren't there as a school improvement service I guess...so tell me what benefit there is of them again?

[citizenJA]

Welcome, Rednorth.

[refitman]

Hi all, newbie in dark times.

Howdy Rednorth.

[Rednorth]

Apart from an occasional comment I gave up on the Guardian when they went to nested threads, which turned it into a troll's paradise IMO.

[rebeccariots2]

“It’s not a simple thing to fix Britain” – Angela Eagle on Labour’s manifesto
http://labourlist.org/2015/01/its-not-a ... manifesto/

[Toby Latimer]

I picked up on this very similar reaction from 2007 that someone had linked to before the comments were vapourised, long before my time - i don't recognise any of the names in the eleven (modest by todays complaints) pages of negativity

The majority who posted on the blog don't like it and some want the old one back - an understandable reaction to any change to the familiar. Sorry, it's not coming back

http://www.theguardian.com/news/blog/20 ... anunlimi14" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ScreenShot00127.jpg (82.73 KiB) Viewed 11523 times

[Toby Latimer]

Ever wondered what happens behind closed doors at those COBRA meetings that fat pillock is so fond of holding ?

10958296_1050265181666223_2640973927005481696_n.jpg (49.8 KiB) Viewed 11512 times

[frightful_oik]

Ever wondered what happens behind closed doors at those COBRA meetings that fat pillock is so fond of holding ?

10958296_1050265181666223_2640973927005481696_n.jpg

Have a care Toby. That's almost as bad as 'conceited prick'. Expect a dawn raid sometime soon.

[citizenJA]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... er#history


"The government has found new funds to encourage more joint working between councils and the NHS"

I see.

Tory-led coalition government, thank you for confirming you choose what you're willing to fund.
Damn you for choosing to adequately fund those working & living in our society who aren't your donors.

[frightful_oik]

Oh my cup of sick overflows .... they've got D F Hodges in for a WATO disembowelling of Labour. Of course he's talking about a Labour defeat - apparently there's an increasing sense within the Labour party that they can't win - and Labour having 'blown up' over the NHS.

I mean, I'm all in favour of free speech and all that but surely, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Je suis presque Charlie.

[Rednorth]

Afternoon all (including newbie Rednorth!)

The Mirror has compiled a handy list of Cameron "fibs". No. 9 is particularly outrageous, but they're all pretty bad:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... es-5068474
FIB 9 The number of kids in workless homes doubled under Labour.

On January 25, 2012, Cameron spoke of “the real shame… that there are so many millions of children who live in households where nobody works and indeed that number doubled under the previous government”.

In fact, according to the Office for National Statistics, the number of children living in workless households fell by 372,000 between April-June 1997 and April-June 2010.

Workless households is a notoriously difficult figure to make sense of, for instance, if you built a million new pensioners bungalows and filled them, those would count as households where no one has ever worked. Note distinction.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Oh my cup of sick overflows .... they've got D F Hodges in for a WATO disembowelling of Labour. Of course he's talking about a Labour defeat - apparently there's an increasing sense within the Labour party that they can't win - and Labour having 'blown up' over the NHS.

I mean, I'm all in favour of free speech and all that but surely, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Je suis presque Charlie.

I have no idea why DFH thinks the Labour Party have blown up over the NHS.

The policy is stop privatisation, it will be stonkingly popular on the doorstep.

Nobody outside the Westminster bubble gives a shit what two discredited former Blairites think.

[rebeccariots2]

Labour want to run the country – the country need to know why
http://labourlist.org/2015/01/labour-wa ... -know-why/

[Toby Latimer]

Cameron, feeling sorry for himself has been out to buy a puppy to help his melancholy

1471969_554896911253184_575493114_n.jpg (56.39 KiB) Viewed 11470 times

[ErnstRemarx]

Hi all, newbie in dark times.

Welcome mate, hope you like the place - get stuck in!

[WelshIan]

From one of Ernst's posts yesterday.

It's a little tittle-tattley that article. If Lucas gets voted out (and a Labour MP voted in), then it will be largely down to the activities of the local council (Green) which has had some fairly well documented issues.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-brighton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A good article, I thought Kitcat came out of it quite well. It is obvious he's had to fight hard to get agreement from Green councillors as well as Labour or Tory (as they are in minority control) to get anything done.

That article has this paragraph:

Then came the infamous bin strike. Kitcat's administration had resolved to belatedly bring the council into line with equal-pay legislation, but the process was handed over to council officers, rather than being worked through by politicians. As some saw it, he was washing his hands of responsibility for the proposed outcome – pay cuts of as much as £4,000 for some of the council's rubbish-collecting and street-cleaning workers.

It is quite correct that councillors should not be involved in that process - they have to leave it to the people who actually have knowledge of the legislation, HR processes, etc. I assume they would have had reports on it, but 'worked through by politicians', no. I've been through job evaluation in 2 councils (in Wales), the councillors did not run it in either, and it was a process that took many years (in one, it took about 4 years).

The 'belatedly' bothers me too, the Greens came to power in 2011. The Birmingham case was only settled in the supreme court in 2012, they may have been waiting for the result of that before signing off. Although, as the bin men were due to have pay cuts then I assume it was the job evaluation process rather than an equal pay claim that is being referred to.

The paragraph adds to the impression that the Greens were not up to running the council when, I believe, they acted correctly, in this instance.

It may be that I am being pedantic or nitpicking but it matters, because the choice of words used to report factual content reveals the bias in the reporting. This is not just about the reporting of the activities of one council, it is about the use of language and the viewpoint that the author/speaker is trying to lead us towards.

[Willow904]

Afternoon all (including newbie Rednorth!)

The Mirror has compiled a handy list of Cameron "fibs". No. 9 is particularly outrageous, but they're all pretty bad:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... es-5068474
FIB 9 The number of kids in workless homes doubled under Labour.

On January 25, 2012, Cameron spoke of “the real shame… that there are so many millions of children who live in households where nobody works and indeed that number doubled under the previous government”.

In fact, according to the Office for National Statistics, the number of children living in workless households fell by 372,000 between April-June 1997 and April-June 2010.

Workless households is a notoriously difficult figure to make sense of, for instance, if you built a million new pensioners bungalows and filled them, those would count as households where no one has ever worked. Note distinction.

I'm not sure I follow. The number of children living in workless households wouldn't be affected by the number of workless households overall.

[ohsocynical]

Hi all, newbie in dark times.

Hi there

Re your latter comment, always remember it is darkest just before the dawn........

And every cloud

[citizenJA]

Does anyone know why the comments below the line on the LabourList website are generally troll banter?

[AngryAsWell]

Not sure if this will work, its a Labour video from FB and I can't find another link...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ErnstRemarx]

Apart from an occasional comment I gave up on the Guardian when they went to nested threads, which turned it into a troll's paradise IMO.

I thought I recognised your user name. Well, FTN will never be nested, and the moderation isn't a pile of poo like it is at the Graun. And, I hope, the layout won't test your will to live.

[rebeccariots2]

Oh my cup of sick overflows .... they've got D F Hodges in for a WATO disembowelling of Labour. Of course he's talking about a Labour defeat - apparently there's an increasing sense within the Labour party that they can't win - and Labour having 'blown up' over the NHS.

I mean, I'm all in favour of free speech and all that but surely, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Je suis presque Charlie.

I have no idea why DFH thinks the Labour Party have blown up over the NHS.

The policy is stop privatisation, it will be stonkingly popular on the doorstep.

Nobody outside the Westminster bubble gives a shit what two discredited former Blairites think.

Yes - a central plank of the policy is to stop privatisation - but it's more and bolder than that - and that hasn't yet got across - because the media aren't capable and/or willing to put across anything other than privatisation percentage wranglings.

Hain has been very good on this because he keeps pointing to the central and radical departure of the policy which is that it actually tries to address the ticking demographic time bomb by integrating social care with health. It's been the failure of provision in social care - and the arguments over responsibilities/budgets etc between care and health providers - that has led to such an increase in problems for health services and the patients / people concerned.

The central point of the policy is that it promotes collaboration and cooperation rather than competition. That's not being talked about. Why haven't the media invited someone senior - retired or current - within the Ambulance services to dissect and talk about the proposals re disbanding 111 and merging it into Ambulance services - and link them with non hospital clinicians and services? Now that is something most people would see as directly relevant to them and understand what Burnham is trying to do pretty quickly - and would have a view on.

[Rednorth]

Afternoon all (including newbie Rednorth!)

The Mirror has compiled a handy list of Cameron "fibs". No. 9 is particularly outrageous, but they're all pretty bad:

Workless households is a notoriously difficult figure to make sense of, for instance, if you built a million new pensioners bungalows and filled them, those would count as households where no one has ever worked. Note distinction.

I'm not sure I follow. The number of children living in workless households wouldn't be affected by the number of workless households overall.

Sorry I didn't make it clear I was only referring to overall numbers.

[ErnstRemarx]

Oh my cup of sick overflows .... they've got D F Hodges in for a WATO disembowelling of Labour. Of course he's talking about a Labour defeat - apparently there's an increasing sense within the Labour party that they can't win - and Labour having 'blown up' over the NHS.

I mean, I'm all in favour of free speech and all that but surely, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Je suis presque Charlie.

I have no idea why DFH thinks the Labour Party have blown up over the NHS.

The policy is stop privatisation, it will be stonkingly popular on the doorstep.

Nobody outside the Westminster bubble gives a shit what two discredited former Blairites think.

Danny boy's job is to get the right brother to the leadership of the Labour party, and to try and ensure that Labour doesn't win under Ed. It's his raison d'etre, and he's pursued it with a monomaniacal vigour to the point where he's managed to completely invalidate anything he says, even on those rare occasions when he's actually right about something - even a broken clock, etc.

As for the Blairites - just sack them off and outlaw Progress as a party within the party; after all, that's what they did to Militant Tendency wasn't it?

[ErnstRemarx]

From one of Ernst's posts yesterday.

It's a little tittle-tattley that article. If Lucas gets voted out (and a Labour MP voted in), then it will be largely down to the activities of the local council (Green) which has had some fairly well documented issues.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-brighton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A good article, I thought Kitcat came out of it quite well. It is obvious he's had to fight hard to get agreement from Green councillors as well as Labour or Tory (as they are in minority control) to get anything done.

That article has this paragraph:

Then came the infamous bin strike. Kitcat's administration had resolved to belatedly bring the council into line with equal-pay legislation, but the process was handed over to council officers, rather than being worked through by politicians. As some saw it, he was washing his hands of responsibility for the proposed outcome – pay cuts of as much as £4,000 for some of the council's rubbish-collecting and street-cleaning workers.

It is quite correct that councillors should not be involved in that process - they have to leave it to the people who actually have knowledge of the legislation, HR processes, etc. I assume they would have had reports on it, but 'worked through by politicians', no. I've been through job evaluation in 2 councils (in Wales), the councillors did not run it in either, and it was a process that took many years (in one, it took about 4 years).

The 'belatedly' bothers me too, the Greens came to power in 2011. The Birmingham case was only settled in the supreme court in 2012, they may have been waiting for the result of that before signing off. Although, as the bin men were due to have pay cuts then I assume it was the job evaluation process rather than an equal pay claim that is being referred to.

The paragraph adds to the impression that the Greens were not up to running the council when, I believe, they acted correctly, in this instance.

It may be that I am being pedantic or nitpicking but it matters, because the choice of words used to report factual content reveals the bias in the reporting. This is not just about the reporting of the activities of one council, it is about the use of language and the viewpoint that the author/speaker is trying to lead us towards.

I'm largely in agreement with this, but with one massive caveat: if officers did all the legwork, fine, but shouldn't the elected councillors have made some sort of pledge that no worker would be worse off as a result of the evaluation? It's one we'd have made in a heartbeat here in Bury. To me, that's a poor call by the Greens who should have foreseen such an outcome and made provision for it. To simply wring one's hands and them try to blame the officers for the outcome is an abrogation of responsibility.

[mikems]

http://labourlist.org/2015/01/labour-an ... -services/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's something Labour should be much more radical about. And why does he talk about 'markets'? It shouldn't be a bloody market.

[Willow904]

Workless households is a notoriously difficult figure to make sense of, for instance, if you built a million new pensioners bungalows and filled them, those would count as households where no one has ever worked. Note distinction.

I'm not sure I follow. The number of children living in workless households wouldn't be affected by the number of workless households overall.

Sorry I didn't make it clear I was only referring to overall numbers.

Oh I see. I thought you were trying to show how Cameron could still be telling the "truth", despite the apparent contradiction, with a convoluted use of stats. I'm almost disappointed. Picking the most flattering stat is common in politics. The move under this Coalition to outright lies (even being reprimanded by the UK Stats Authority) is rather worrying.

[ohsocynical]

Old Holborn ‏@Holbornlolz · 48m48 minutes ago
A man is in court for calling David Cameron a conceited prick on Twitter.

Think about that for a moment

http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Direct link to story http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/?news_id=39713" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And on Twitter, someone has been sentenced to 100 days community service for shouting out at Cameron something about leaving the public sector alone. [In the middle of cooking so no time to check exact words] But that's the gist.

[ohsocynical]

Pensioners: Are you aware of the Tories’ plan to cut pension credit?
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/01/ ... urn false;

As it happens this doesn't affect Mr Ohso and I, and I doubt it will impact many elderly Tory voters.

They're keeping it quiet though. Just in case.

[citizenJA]

The G threads are impossible.
Disorienting pandemonium.
Lying commentators have chosen today to join below the line.
Meaningful information transfer isn't happening.
Impossible.

[citizenJA]

I mean, I'm all in favour of free speech and all that but surely, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Je suis presque Charlie.

I have no idea why DFH thinks the Labour Party have blown up over the NHS.

The policy is stop privatisation, it will be stonkingly popular on the doorstep.

Nobody outside the Westminster bubble gives a shit what two discredited former Blairites think.

Danny boy's job is to get the right brother to the leadership of the Labour party, and to try and ensure that Labour doesn't win under Ed. It's his raison d'etre, and he's pursued it with a monomaniacal vigour to the point where he's managed to completely invalidate anything he says, even on those rare occasions when he's actually right about something - even a broken clock, etc.

As for the Blairites - just sack them off and outlaw Progress as a party within the party; after all, that's what they did to Militant Tendency wasn't it?

I posted earlier a response I gave to someone demanding the 'two discredited former Blairites' (excellent description!) resign.

I genuinely think some people don't understand these two people are no longer in Labour leadership or party positions. This is disturbing to me. How in the world can people make quality decisions if they don't know the truth? It's absolutely horrible. It's lies, this crap dragging up dawn of the deads & reporting their meaningless opinions.

[citizenJA]

Oh jesus christ almighty.
That damn Owen Jones.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... oliticians

[WelshIan]

From one of Ernst's posts yesterday.

It's a little tittle-tattley that article. If Lucas gets voted out (and a Labour MP voted in), then it will be largely down to the activities of the local council (Green) which has had some fairly well documented issues.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-brighton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A good article, I thought Kitcat came out of it quite well. It is obvious he's had to fight hard to get agreement from Green councillors as well as Labour or Tory (as they are in minority control) to get anything done.

That article has this paragraph:

Then came the infamous bin strike. Kitcat's administration had resolved to belatedly bring the council into line with equal-pay legislation, but the process was handed over to council officers, rather than being worked through by politicians. As some saw it, he was washing his hands of responsibility for the proposed outcome – pay cuts of as much as £4,000 for some of the council's rubbish-collecting and street-cleaning workers.

It is quite correct that councillors should not be involved in that process - they have to leave it to the people who actually have knowledge of the legislation, HR processes, etc. I assume they would have had reports on it, but 'worked through by politicians', no. I've been through job evaluation in 2 councils (in Wales), the councillors did not run it in either, and it was a process that took many years (in one, it took about 4 years).

The 'belatedly' bothers me too, the Greens came to power in 2011. The Birmingham case was only settled in the supreme court in 2012, they may have been waiting for the result of that before signing off. Although, as the bin men were due to have pay cuts then I assume it was the job evaluation process rather than an equal pay claim that is being referred to.

The paragraph adds to the impression that the Greens were not up to running the council when, I believe, they acted correctly, in this instance.

It may be that I am being pedantic or nitpicking but it matters, because the choice of words used to report factual content reveals the bias in the reporting. This is not just about the reporting of the activities of one council, it is about the use of language and the viewpoint that the author/speaker is trying to lead us towards.

I'm largely in agreement with this, but with one massive caveat: if officers did all the legwork, fine, but shouldn't the elected councillors have made some sort of pledge that no worker would be worse off as a result of the evaluation? It's one we'd have made in a heartbeat here in Bury. To me, that's a poor call by the Greens who should have foreseen such an outcome and made provision for it. To simply wring one's hands and them try to blame the officers for the outcome is an abrogation of responsibility.

Thanks, Ernst - I worried that things were done differently in England.
They proposed a lump sum payment for any worker whose pay fell (section 13a):
http://blog.scrapperduncan.com/2013/05/ ... their-pay/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wonder if the strike occurred because the union and employees saw an opportunity for a better deal because of the split in the Greens? A good call by the union in that case, and it strengthens the case against the Greens that they were not in control of the council.

Also, refuse collection is privatised (or contracted out) in Brighton so the union would have only had to ballot the binmen. Easy to get strike agreement when everyone is losing a big chunk of their wages. If the service was still run by the council then all employees would have had to be balloted and strike agreement would be far less likely as some people's wages would have gone up or stayed the same.
A small instance where privatisation has show a gain for the ordinary worker - there can't be many of those!

[AnatolyKasparov]

The G threads are impossible.
Disorienting pandemonium.
Lying commentators have chosen today to join below the line.
Meaningful information transfer isn't happening.
Impossible.

The readers edition today isn't too bad, tbf. Especially since my weekly review is now up

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Hiya Red, good to 'hear' your voice again.

[AngryAsWell]

Oh jesus christ almighty.
That damn Owen Jones.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... oliticians

I'm fast getting sick of the little snide, its not the likes of him that will suffer if tories win again.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Oh jesus christ almighty.
That damn Owen Jones.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... oliticians

I'm fast getting sick of the little snide, its not the likes of him that will suffer if tories win again.

Now, now you two, no dissing Saint Owen!

[AngryAsWell]

Twitter storm Saturday @ 6 - hashtag is #EMForNo10
The video I posted earlier with the 101 reason to vote Labour may give inspiration for tweets.
It's an optimistic, hope for the future storm

[AngryAsWell]

Oh jesus christ almighty.
That damn Owen Jones.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... oliticians

I'm fast getting sick of the little snide, its not the likes of him that will suffer if tories win again.

Now, now you two, no dissing Saint Owen!

Diss him? I'd give him a clip round the ear if I met him (.....is that too non PC?)

[Toby Latimer]

You've been with the professors
And they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read
It's well known.

But something is happening here
And you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones ?

[youtube]yDC0b7rfK5U[/youtube]

[AngryAsWell]

You've been with the professors
And they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have
Discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of
F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well read
It's well known.

But something is happening here
And you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones ?

[youtube]yDC0b7rfK5U[/youtube]

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Comedy article of the day. Alec Shelbrooke, MP for Elmet & Rothwell, claims that Ed is unfit to lead and Labour has no policies; this in a week where his own leader has ensured he can never go back to Nandos for fear of ending up on the menu, and where Labour have been floating policy after policy.

The panic shines through with every word. His seat is number 59 on Labour's target list, and Electoral Calculus give him next to no hope of hanging on. Start clearing your desk Alec.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ed ... es-5071262" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rebeccariots2]

Has Dave said he will do the debates yet?

[Toby Latimer]

Lord Carrington on last night's Newsnight. Once served under Thatcher he is last surviving member of Churchill's cabinet.

Doing his best impression of Paul Whitehouse's Rowley Birkin character "I was very, very, drunk at the time"

Starts off with " I was at home, shooting partridges"

Like you do.

[youtube]kjhyNDBLAd4[/youtube]

[rebeccariots2]

Sorry to post anything by and concerning this self publicist ... but if this is true it's another corker of a story for UKIP

Simon Danczuk ‏@SimonDanczuk 35m35 minutes ago
Just hearing that my UKIP opponent has been thrown out of a Rochdale mosque after trying to address the congregation & clumsily attack me!

[rebeccariots2]

Beth Rigby ‏@BethRigby 1h1 hour ago
Everyone in lobby still talking about @Ed_Miliband's classy performance at Westminster correspondents' dinner http://bit.ly/1zmmMDw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone found his speech yet?

[rebeccariots2]

Andrew Mitchell will have to pay legal costs of Sun and police officer cases he lost ... could run to between 1 and 2 million quid. Ouch big time.