A few snippets in here.rebeccariots2 wrote:Anyone found his speech yet?Beth Rigby @BethRigby 1h1 hour ago
Everyone in lobby still talking about @Ed_Miliband's classy performance at Westminster correspondents' dinner http://bit.ly/1zmmMDw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Read on twitter that he described himself as ''Mystic Mili'' he saw the financial crash but only bothered telling the Mayor of Doncaster.rebeccariots2 wrote:Anyone found his speech yet?Beth Rigby @BethRigby 1h1 hour ago
Everyone in lobby still talking about @Ed_Miliband's classy performance at Westminster correspondents' dinner http://bit.ly/1zmmMDw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Very good to see you here (I'm one of the @occupyNN tweeters so already follow you on twitter)Rednorth wrote:Hi all, newbie in dark times.
Those are good snippets. Thanks.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:A few snippets in here.rebeccariots2 wrote:Anyone found his speech yet?Beth Rigby @BethRigby 1h1 hour ago
Everyone in lobby still talking about @Ed_Miliband's classy performance at Westminster correspondents' dinner http://bit.ly/1zmmMDw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/ed- ... uite-funny" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sky News @SkyNews 1h1 hour ago
Diplomat Sir Peter Hayman the focus of secret Govt file on "unnatural" sexual behaviour http://trib.al/gIa7Njc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
George Eaton @georgeeaton · 1h 1 hour ago
Labour's first three election pledges have been on the deficit, immigration and the NHS. 1/2
George Eaton @georgeeaton · 1h 1 hour ago
The final two will be on young people and living standards, I'm told. 2/2
They are, aren't they. Can't imagine either Maureen Lipman or Paul Dacre will be impressed though.rebeccariots2 wrote:Those are good snippets. Thanks.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:A few snippets in here.rebeccariots2 wrote: Anyone found his speech yet?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/ed- ... uite-funny" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It certainly is, and this time it's the chief Lib Dem cheer leaders, and Clegg loving Guardian's turn, naval gazing, self obsessed, media type wankers. More concerned with the fucking story than the meat on the bones.StephenDolan wrote:Labour’s failures ‘worse than Kinnock’, says David Hare
http://gu.com/p/45c8c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's ramping up.
What is Owen Jones thinking? What is the man about?TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Now, now you two, no dissing Saint Owen!AngryAsWell wrote:I'm fast getting sick of the little snide, its not the likes of him that will suffer if tories win again.citizenJA wrote:Oh jesus christ almighty.
That damn Owen Jones.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... oliticians
Jones, you write like a Tory troll.Take Miliband, a man pilloried in the most personal way by the media for being, basically, a bit odd. He has made pledges which – in my view – are not radical enough, even if they are facing in the right direction: such as freezing energy bills, increasing the top rate of tax, introducing a mansion tax, repealing the bedroom tax and NHS privatisation, somewhat tackling zero-hour contracts, and so on. According to the polls, people support these policies...
But voters simply do not believe such promises will ever be implemented. Arguably the more radical and popular the promise, the more it feeds into a sense of, “Oh, they’ll promise the earth to get elected.”
Yes I want more politicians who say what they mean and mean what they say. But the contempt towards politics does little for those who want real change and much for those who defend the status quo.
Perhaps more to the point, an instance where union membership in a private company was very effective.WelshIan wrote:Thanks, Ernst - I worried that things were done differently in England.ErnstRemarx wrote:I'm largely in agreement with this, but with one massive caveat: if officers did all the legwork, fine, but shouldn't the elected councillors have made some sort of pledge that no worker would be worse off as a result of the evaluation? It's one we'd have made in a heartbeat here in Bury. To me, that's a poor call by the Greens who should have foreseen such an outcome and made provision for it. To simply wring one's hands and them try to blame the officers for the outcome is an abrogation of responsibility.WelshIan wrote:From one of Ernst's posts yesterday. A good article, I thought Kitcat came out of it quite well. It is obvious he's had to fight hard to get agreement from Green councillors as well as Labour or Tory (as they are in minority control) to get anything done.
That article has this paragraph: It is quite correct that councillors should not be involved in that process - they have to leave it to the people who actually have knowledge of the legislation, HR processes, etc. I assume they would have had reports on it, but 'worked through by politicians', no. I've been through job evaluation in 2 councils (in Wales), the councillors did not run it in either, and it was a process that took many years (in one, it took about 4 years).
The 'belatedly' bothers me too, the Greens came to power in 2011. The Birmingham case was only settled in the supreme court in 2012, they may have been waiting for the result of that before signing off. Although, as the bin men were due to have pay cuts then I assume it was the job evaluation process rather than an equal pay claim that is being referred to.
The paragraph adds to the impression that the Greens were not up to running the council when, I believe, they acted correctly, in this instance.
It may be that I am being pedantic or nitpicking but it matters, because the choice of words used to report factual content reveals the bias in the reporting. This is not just about the reporting of the activities of one council, it is about the use of language and the viewpoint that the author/speaker is trying to lead us towards.
They proposed a lump sum payment for any worker whose pay fell (section 13a):
http://blog.scrapperduncan.com/2013/05/ ... their-pay/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I wonder if the strike occurred because the union and employees saw an opportunity for a better deal because of the split in the Greens? A good call by the union in that case, and it strengthens the case against the Greens that they were not in control of the council.
Also, refuse collection is privatised (or contracted out) in Brighton so the union would have only had to ballot the binmen. Easy to get strike agreement when everyone is losing a big chunk of their wages. If the service was still run by the council then all employees would have had to be balloted and strike agreement would be far less likely as some people's wages would have gone up or stayed the same.
A small instance where privatisation has show a gain for the ordinary worker - there can't be many of those!
Pure cynical snark from top to bottom, in my opinion.frightful_oik wrote:Can someone tell me what's wrong with the OJ article please? I can't see it.
Owen Jones to be blunt gets on my tits, preaches from the high alter whilst writing for a paper doing its best to undermine Miliband, he will argue he's a freelance and not privy to any editorial stance, but try writing about the corruption of the media classes, cause that is what is going on at the moment, corruption.citizenJA wrote:What is Owen Jones thinking? What is the man about?TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Now, now you two, no dissing Saint Owen!AngryAsWell wrote: I'm fast getting sick of the little snide, its not the likes of him that will suffer if tories win again.Jones, you write like a Tory troll.Take Miliband, a man pilloried in the most personal way by the media for being, basically, a bit odd. He has made pledges which – in my view – are not radical enough, even if they are facing in the right direction: such as freezing energy bills, increasing the top rate of tax, introducing a mansion tax, repealing the bedroom tax and NHS privatisation, somewhat tackling zero-hour contracts, and so on. According to the polls, people support these policies...
But voters simply do not believe such promises will ever be implemented. Arguably the more radical and popular the promise, the more it feeds into a sense of, “Oh, they’ll promise the earth to get elected.”
Where have all the voters told you they simply don't believe promises?
More specifically, Jones, where have all the voters told you they don't believe the policies Miliband & the Labour party proposes will be enacted?
Where, Jones?
Finally, what does this even mean????Yes I want more politicians who say what they mean and mean what they say. But the contempt towards politics does little for those who want real change and much for those who defend the status quo.
I still can't see what's wrong with it. This article is basically the chapter - from his book on the establishment- that refers to politicians much abridged. I don't think he's particularly knocking Miliband. He's merely stating that there's a 'they're all the same' mood abroad in the country. I've certainly seen it. It's much more an attack on our useless media that doesn't allow a sensible debate. We've all said that on here.citizenJA wrote:What is Owen Jones thinking? What is the man about?TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Now, now you two, no dissing Saint Owen!AngryAsWell wrote: I'm fast getting sick of the little snide, its not the likes of him that will suffer if tories win again.Jones, you write like a Tory troll.Take Miliband, a man pilloried in the most personal way by the media for being, basically, a bit odd. He has made pledges which – in my view – are not radical enough, even if they are facing in the right direction: such as freezing energy bills, increasing the top rate of tax, introducing a mansion tax, repealing the bedroom tax and NHS privatisation, somewhat tackling zero-hour contracts, and so on. According to the polls, people support these policies...
But voters simply do not believe such promises will ever be implemented. Arguably the more radical and popular the promise, the more it feeds into a sense of, “Oh, they’ll promise the earth to get elected.”
Where have all the voters told you they simply don't believe promises?
More specifically, Jones, where have all the voters told you they don't believe the policies Miliband & the Labour party proposes will be enacted?
Where, Jones?
Finally, what does this even mean????Yes I want more politicians who say what they mean and mean what they say. But the contempt towards politics does little for those who want real change and much for those who defend the status quo.
Well, perhaps that will teach the little scrote a lesson.rebeccariots2 wrote:Andrew Mitchell will have to pay legal costs of Sun and police officer cases he lost ... could run to between 1 and 2 million quid. Ouch big time.
Except that he uses the piece to criticise Miliband for not going far enough as he would like, thereby implying that Miliband is too similar to the other leaders.frightful_oik wrote:I still can't see what's wrong with it. This article is basically the chapter - from his book on the establishment- that refers to politicians much abridged. I don't think he's particularly knocking Miliband. He's merely stating that there's a 'they're all the same' mood abroad in the country. I've certainly seen it. It's much more an attack on our useless media that doesn't allow a sensible debate. We've all said that on here.citizenJA wrote:What is Owen Jones thinking? What is the man about?TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Now, now you two, no dissing Saint Owen!Jones, you write like a Tory troll.Take Miliband, a man pilloried in the most personal way by the media for being, basically, a bit odd. He has made pledges which – in my view – are not radical enough, even if they are facing in the right direction: such as freezing energy bills, increasing the top rate of tax, introducing a mansion tax, repealing the bedroom tax and NHS privatisation, somewhat tackling zero-hour contracts, and so on. According to the polls, people support these policies...
But voters simply do not believe such promises will ever be implemented. Arguably the more radical and popular the promise, the more it feeds into a sense of, “Oh, they’ll promise the earth to get elected.”
Where have all the voters told you they simply don't believe promises?
More specifically, Jones, where have all the voters told you they don't believe the policies Miliband & the Labour party proposes will be enacted?
Where, Jones?
Finally, what does this even mean????Yes I want more politicians who say what they mean and mean what they say. But the contempt towards politics does little for those who want real change and much for those who defend the status quo.
Nothing per se, but it's a bit rich for him to write such an article, given that he's part of a newspaper which has done plenty to foster the 'Miliband is weird' meme - which Jones, disgracefully, also uses in his article.frightful_oik wrote:Can someone tell me what's wrong with the OJ article please? I can't see it.
(my bold)frightful_oik wrote:I still can't see what's wrong with it. This article is basically the chapter - from his book on the establishment- that refers to politicians much abridged. I don't think he's particularly knocking Miliband. He's merely stating that there's a 'they're all the same' mood abroad in the country. I've certainly seen it. It's much more an attack on our useless media that doesn't allow a sensible debate. We've all said that on here.citizenJA wrote:What is Owen Jones thinking? What is the man about?TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Now, now you two, no dissing Saint Owen!Jones, you write like a Tory troll.Take Miliband, a man pilloried in the most personal way by the media for being, basically, a bit odd. He has made pledges which – in my view – are not radical enough, even if they are facing in the right direction: such as freezing energy bills, increasing the top rate of tax, introducing a mansion tax, repealing the bedroom tax and NHS privatisation, somewhat tackling zero-hour contracts, and so on. According to the polls, people support these policies...
But voters simply do not believe such promises will ever be implemented. Arguably the more radical and popular the promise, the more it feeds into a sense of, “Oh, they’ll promise the earth to get elected.”
Where have all the voters told you they simply don't believe promises?
More specifically, Jones, where have all the voters told you they don't believe the policies Miliband & the Labour party proposes will be enacted?
Where, Jones?
Finally, what does this even mean????Yes I want more politicians who say what they mean and mean what they say. But the contempt towards politics does little for those who want real change and much for those who defend the status quo.
rebeccariots2 wrote:Anyone found his speech yet?Beth Rigby @BethRigby 1h1 hour ago
Everyone in lobby still talking about @Ed_Miliband's classy performance at Westminster correspondents' dinner http://bit.ly/1zmmMDw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thank you! Yes. I'm having trouble articulating why I disliked Jones' article but I know something bugged the hell out of me about it. Where's your light, Owen Jones? Shine it, dude! Don't just write whatever, nevermind, they're all just the same, & leave it there.ErnstRemarx wrote:Nothing per se, but it's a bit rich for him to write such an article, given that he's part of a newspaper which has done plenty to foster the 'Miliband is weird' meme - which Jones, disgracefully, also uses in his article.frightful_oik wrote:Can someone tell me what's wrong with the OJ article please? I can't see it.
He'd be better off pointing out where Tory policies are hypocritical and self-seeking, and then doing a compare and contrast if he really wants to make the point.
The fake ones conjured by lies are the worst. I hate that.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Seen Stratton.
Lord Darzi "instensifies the row".
There isn't one. This is complete lies.
The media pillories politicians and politics, not because they’re “sticking it to the man” but because they know democracy is the only potential counterweight to a rapacious elite that rules Britain.
Ed Miliband is right: we must fight political cynicism in the media
Perhaps it's because I've been reading his book that it makes more sense to me. I'd agree it could be clearer what he's trying to say. But I can't disagree with what he's saying.Why is it not tempting for the likes of me to indulge such cynicism? We live in a country where unemployed people, immigrants, public sector workers and other people not exactly abounding with power are scapegoated for our society’s many ills. The finger of blame needs to be redirected to the powerful, and that certainly includes politicians. But if we end up thinking that politics is the preserve of the cynical and the venal then nobody will ever believe it is capable of changing anything. Promises – however positive and progressive – will always seem cynical and duplicitous, useful for courting votes but never to be implemented.
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Two local council by-elections this week:
Windsor and Maidenhead - Tory hold in an unusual Wednesday poll with just over two thirds of the vote, of a very safe ward in what looks like the last vacancy from the 2011 set of elections to be filled before this May. They got a modest swing from second placed Labour, who finished only just ahead of UKIP who got nearly 12% in their first outing here (though they may have hoped for more, and the runners up position) LibDems in last place as their vote fell further on last time when they were pushed into third (having been fairly competitive in 2003 and still narrowly second in 2007) which sums up their long term decline in this one time "flagship" council - the days when Theresa May genuinely feared for her seat seem very distant now.
St Albans DC - Tories hold both seats in a rare "double vacancy", thus preserving their single seat majority on the council. They were run fairly close by the LibDems who gained a swing of 5% since last May - though this was a low point for them in this ward as they fell into third place having won it at every election between 2002 and 2010 (with the sole exception of a narrow Tory win in 2006) sometimes by big margins, so they may have hoped for even better. Labour back to third, down 4% on their recent high last May but little changed on the previous few years - followed by the Greens whose top candidate finished ahead of Labour but gained almost three times the number of votes their running mate did; this is explained by their explicitly calling on voters to prefer one candidate in their election literature (they have tried this tactic before, with mixed results) Taken together their score was up about 5% - compare with UKIP, who came last with a drop in their share and only a single vote separating their two hopefuls.
Just one contest next week (Derbyshire CC)
You're right on.frightful_oik wrote:Well I read the OJ article as saying that EM is making some modest proposals that are at least a step in the right direction. But even such modest proposals are atomised by the media. Note the following passages:The media pillories politicians and politics, not because they’re “sticking it to the man” but because they know democracy is the only potential counterweight to a rapacious elite that rules Britain.Ed Miliband is right: we must fight political cynicism in the mediaPerhaps it's because I've been reading his book that it makes more sense to me. I'd agree it could be clearer what he's trying to say. But I can't disagree with what he's saying.Why is it not tempting for the likes of me to indulge such cynicism? We live in a country where unemployed people, immigrants, public sector workers and other people not exactly abounding with power are scapegoated for our society’s many ills. The finger of blame needs to be redirected to the powerful, and that certainly includes politicians. But if we end up thinking that politics is the preserve of the cynical and the venal then nobody will ever believe it is capable of changing anything. Promises – however positive and progressive – will always seem cynical and duplicitous, useful for courting votes but never to be implemented.
No, he's saying exactly the opposite of that. He's saying that the media will shred anyone who deviates in the slightest from the neolib narrative. The media would like you to think they're all the same and disengage from politics.citizenJA wrote:Thank you! Yes. I'm having trouble articulating why I disliked Jones' article but I know something bugged the hell out of me about it. Where's your light, Owen Jones? Shine it, dude! Don't just write whatever, nevermind, they're all just the same, & leave it there.ErnstRemarx wrote:Nothing per se, but it's a bit rich for him to write such an article, given that he's part of a newspaper which has done plenty to foster the 'Miliband is weird' meme - which Jones, disgracefully, also uses in his article.frightful_oik wrote:Can someone tell me what's wrong with the OJ article please? I can't see it.
He'd be better off pointing out where Tory policies are hypocritical and self-seeking, and then doing a compare and contrast if he really wants to make the point.
No but I've found one with more quotes in it and a couple of bits made me laugh out loud (or lots of love as Dave calls it)rebeccariots2 wrote:Anyone found his speech yet?Beth Rigby @BethRigby 1h1 hour ago
Everyone in lobby still talking about @Ed_Miliband's classy performance at Westminster correspondents' dinner http://bit.ly/1zmmMDw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At the risk of pointing out the bleedin' obvious, he's part of the media....what shall we call it? How about 'blob'... which thrives on exactly the sort of cynicism that he's excoriating. There's no way that anyone in the mainstream media will ask people to lift the rocks and look under them; simply to read what Owen Jones has written on the rock and nod sagely.citizenJA wrote:(my bold)frightful_oik wrote:I still can't see what's wrong with it. This article is basically the chapter - from his book on the establishment- that refers to politicians much abridged. I don't think he's particularly knocking Miliband. He's merely stating that there's a 'they're all the same' mood abroad in the country. I've certainly seen it. It's much more an attack on our useless media that doesn't allow a sensible debate. We've all said that on here.citizenJA wrote: What is Owen Jones thinking? What is the man about? Jones, you write like a Tory troll.
Where have all the voters told you they simply don't believe promises?
More specifically, Jones, where have all the voters told you they don't believe the policies Miliband & the Labour party proposes will be enacted?
Where, Jones?
Finally, what does this even mean????
Perfectly articulated, exactly. The parts I've put in bold.
You're absolutely right. It's more or less okay toward Miliband; it's not really about Miliband.
Jones' insipid handling of one of the most important issues of the 21st century - peoples' political & social relationship with a heavily remastered media stream coming at us from all directions.
What has Jones' article done to improve the conversation at all?
Where has he even asked readers to think beyond what media produces?
Thank you, Stephen Dolan, that too.StephenDolan -
Except that he uses the piece to criticise Miliband for not going far enough as he would like, thereby implying that Miliband is too similar to the other leaders.
Somewhere in Alistair Campbell's diaries he tells of being shocked when Blair announced he wasn't Labour. One of these days I'll look it up.howsillyofme1 wrote:Evening all
I am getting a bit fed up with all this putain (pardon my French, literally lol) moaning going on.
To those putain Blairites - you had your chance and most of the difficulties the party is having now is due to your infatuation with triangulation and the markets! We are not putain short of money because of unreformed public services - it is because you were too keen on right-wing dogma hanging over from the Thatcher days
Just crawl back under your stones so we can forget about you!
As to those attacking the party for not being radical or ambitious enough - well, there is still the millstone of Blairism and also the fact that any attempt at radicalism can only be carried out with a massive majority - something that will not happen in 2015
Blair had the opportunity to turn his back on Thatcherism but chose not too - and many of you who are moaning now were cheerleading him all the way back in the day
Cameron and his goons did not get the majority to be radical but have been allowed to do so by the Lie Dems and their lack of backbone
The other problem for Labour is the media - it is one thing saying they have little influence but when no newspaper or tv station is giving them a fair press it is very difficult to do much - even now there seems to be no real complaining from the press on Cameron refusing the debatess - just imagine if Brown had done this is 2010?
What a bunch of branleurs!
I think the problem with Owen is one of perception, and it is a problem largely of his own making. He talks of how important it is that the Left stays unified in order to fight the real enemy one day, and then does the "I am more Left than you" routine the next; he bangs on about his working class roots and how he is a "4th generation socialist" (although I'd question how working class his roots really are) and then writes on message anti-Ed pieces for the increasingly right wing, distinctly middle class Guardian ....... Mixed messages all the time, to the point where people aren't sure they can trust him.frightful_oik wrote:Well I read the OJ article as saying that EM is making some modest proposals that are at least a step in the right direction. But even such modest proposals are atomised by the media. Note the following passages:The media pillories politicians and politics, not because they’re “sticking it to the man” but because they know democracy is the only potential counterweight to a rapacious elite that rules Britain.Ed Miliband is right: we must fight political cynicism in the mediaPerhaps it's because I've been reading his book that it makes more sense to me. I'd agree it could be clearer what he's trying to say. But I can't disagree with what he's saying.Why is it not tempting for the likes of me to indulge such cynicism? We live in a country where unemployed people, immigrants, public sector workers and other people not exactly abounding with power are scapegoated for our society’s many ills. The finger of blame needs to be redirected to the powerful, and that certainly includes politicians. But if we end up thinking that politics is the preserve of the cynical and the venal then nobody will ever believe it is capable of changing anything. Promises – however positive and progressive – will always seem cynical and duplicitous, useful for courting votes but never to be implemented.
You make my point for me Ernst. At least he's excoriating it. And although the media is a blob, there are exceptions in it. Polly, Nick Davies, er Owen Jones sometimes. That's the point. If we don't accept good journalism when it's there, we're doing precisely what OJ is excoriating; 'those journos are all the same'. The media is mostly shit. Some journos are always shit, (I mean you DFH), but some aren't completely shit. Jones has his ups and downs and I happen to think this is one of his ups.ErnstRemarx wrote:At the risk of pointing out the bleedin' obvious, he's part of the media....what shall we call it? How about 'blob'... which thrives on exactly the sort of cynicism that he's excoriating. There's no way that anyone in the mainstream media will ask people to lift the rocks and look uinder them; simply to read what Owen Jones has written on the rock and nod sagely.citizenJA wrote:(my bold)frightful_oik wrote: I still can't see what's wrong with it. This article is basically the chapter - from his book on the establishment- that refers to politicians much abridged. I don't think he's particularly knocking Miliband. He's merely stating that there's a 'they're all the same' mood abroad in the country. I've certainly seen it. It's much more an attack on our useless media that doesn't allow a sensible debate. We've all said that on here.
Perfectly articulated, exactly. The parts I've put in bold.
You're absolutely right. It's more or less okay toward Miliband; it's not really about Miliband.
Jones' insipid handling of one of the most important issues of the 21st century - peoples' political & social relationship with a heavily remastered media stream coming at us from all directions.
What has Jones' article done to improve the conversation at all?
Where has he even asked readers to think beyond what media produces?
And that will work very well, even if it is massively hypocritical. The media is there, not to throw light on issues, but to stir up rage in clickbait. Consider your own local paper: what's the proportion of bad news to goods? Of detailed analysis to soundbites?
I learned my lesson many years ago: I was in a band and we played in the first outdoor concert of its kind in my then home town, hoping it'd be the first of many such events. Got a reasonable, if slightly small, crowd. So the next day I toddle down to the local rag to file a verbal report, and I'm collared by a hack from said organ. I report the event, pretty much as above, and add that everyone appeared to enjoy themselves. The headline that Thursday? "MAIN EVENT IN JEOPARDY AFTER POOR TURNOUT".
Never trust a fucking hack.
I've read the Buzzfeed outtakes - very good. So no danger of any of it appearing in the mainstream meeja then.ohsocynical wrote:rebeccariots2 wrote:Anyone found his speech yet?Beth Rigby @BethRigby 1h1 hour ago
Everyone in lobby still talking about @Ed_Miliband's classy performance at Westminster correspondents' dinner http://bit.ly/1zmmMDw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Think it's in the Telegraph...There was a mention and link earlier on Twitter
The only French quotes I remember are Ferme La Bouche and Fromage Frais, Rodneyhowsillyofme1 wrote:Evening all
I am getting a bit fed up with all this putain (pardon my French, literally lol) moaning going on.
To those putain Blairites - you had your chance and most of the difficulties the party is having now is due to your infatuation with triangulation and the markets! We are not putain short of money because of unreformed public services - it is because you were too keen on right-wing dogma hanging over from the Thatcher days
Just crawl back under your stones so we can forget about you!
As to those attacking the party for not being radical or ambitious enough - well, there is still the millstone of Blairism and also the fact that any attempt at radicalism can only be carried out with a massive majority - something that will not happen in 2015
Blair had the opportunity to turn his back on Thatcherism but chose not too - and many of you who are moaning now were cheerleading him all the way back in the day
Cameron and his goons did not get the majority to be radical but have been allowed to do so by the Lie Dems and their lack of backbone
The other problem for Labour is the media - it is one thing saying they have little influence but when no newspaper or tv station is giving them a fair press it is very difficult to do much - even now there seems to be no real complaining from the press on Cameron refusing the debatess - just imagine if Brown had done this is 2010?
What a bunch of branleurs!
Not really French phrases, more French profanity!Toby Latimer wrote:The only French quotes I remember are Ferme La Bouche and Fromage Frais, Rodneyhowsillyofme1 wrote:Evening all
I am getting a bit fed up with all this putain (pardon my French, literally lol) moaning going on.
To those putain Blairites - you had your chance and most of the difficulties the party is having now is due to your infatuation with triangulation and the markets! We are not putain short of money because of unreformed public services - it is because you were too keen on right-wing dogma hanging over from the Thatcher days
Just crawl back under your stones so we can forget about you!
As to those attacking the party for not being radical or ambitious enough - well, there is still the millstone of Blairism and also the fact that any attempt at radicalism can only be carried out with a massive majority - something that will not happen in 2015
Blair had the opportunity to turn his back on Thatcherism but chose not too - and many of you who are moaning now were cheerleading him all the way back in the day
Cameron and his goons did not get the majority to be radical but have been allowed to do so by the Lie Dems and their lack of backbone
The other problem for Labour is the media - it is one thing saying they have little influence but when no newspaper or tv station is giving them a fair press it is very difficult to do much - even now there seems to be no real complaining from the press on Cameron refusing the debatess - just imagine if Brown had done this is 2010?
What a bunch of branleurs!
[youtube]FM3wAcSpUfQ[/youtube]
Quite right. And if Labour lose in May, I won't be going hungry either. But I challenge anyone to loathe the Tories and their kipper mates more than I do. So I don't see that as a valid line of criticism either. My main criticism of this piece is that it isn't shot through with the clarity of meaning I would like to see. Part of that is his style of argument I think. He needs to improve on that I reckon.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:I think the problem with Owen is one of perception, and it is a problem largely of his own making. He talks of how important it is that the Left stays unified in order to fight the real enemy one day, and then does the "I am more Left than you" routine the next; he bangs on about his working class roots and how he is a "4th generation socialist" (although I'd question how working class his roots really are) and then writes on message anti-Ed pieces for the increasingly right wing, distinctly middle class Guardian ....... Mixed messages all the time, to the point where people aren't sure they can trust him.frightful_oik wrote:Well I read the OJ article as saying that EM is making some modest proposals that are at least a step in the right direction. But even such modest proposals are atomised by the media. Note the following passages:The media pillories politicians and politics, not because they’re “sticking it to the man” but because they know democracy is the only potential counterweight to a rapacious elite that rules Britain.Ed Miliband is right: we must fight political cynicism in the mediaPerhaps it's because I've been reading his book that it makes more sense to me. I'd agree it could be clearer what he's trying to say. But I can't disagree with what he's saying.Why is it not tempting for the likes of me to indulge such cynicism? We live in a country where unemployed people, immigrants, public sector workers and other people not exactly abounding with power are scapegoated for our society’s many ills. The finger of blame needs to be redirected to the powerful, and that certainly includes politicians. But if we end up thinking that politics is the preserve of the cynical and the venal then nobody will ever believe it is capable of changing anything. Promises – however positive and progressive – will always seem cynical and duplicitous, useful for courting votes but never to be implemented.
He has stated very publicly, several times, that he will be voting for Labour in May. In marked contrast to Hodges I believe Jones is being sincere; problem is while his vote may be secure, how many is he losing with those mixed signals? I want to like the guy, I really do, but I always think he is looking at what is in it for Owen, rather than what is the right thing to do; and, quite frankly, if Labour did lose in May he won't be going hungry, will he? To him this is an intellectual game, to so many others this is, literally, a matter of life and death.
He's another Tory with shit for brains...Grant Shapps Gets Confused Over Tory MEP Amjad Bashir's Call To Scrap Workers' Rights
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01 ... mg00000067
Wasn't meant as a blanket criticism, but apt in Owen's case. I don't suffer from any disabilities - well, I'm asthmatic and have some MH issues, but basically I'm good - but that doesn't mean I'm not sincere about my opposition to IDS, the WCA and all the rest; in exactly the same way I have no doubt about your sincerity, but I do question his on occasion. He is too comfortable and I question his passion ... as I said, I always think he is looking for opportunities for himself to step up the ladder. I may be doing him a disservice and if somebody can demonstrate I am I will apologise/frightful_oik wrote:Quite right. And if Labour lose in May, I won't be going hungry either. But I challenge anyone to loathe the Tories and their kipper mates more than I do. So I don't see that as a valid line of criticism either. My main criticism of this piece is that it isn't shot through with the clarity of meaning I would like to see. Part of that is his style of argument I think. He needs to improve on that I reckon.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:I think the problem with Owen is one of perception, and it is a problem largely of his own making. He talks of how important it is that the Left stays unified in order to fight the real enemy one day, and then does the "I am more Left than you" routine the next; he bangs on about his working class roots and how he is a "4th generation socialist" (although I'd question how working class his roots really are) and then writes on message anti-Ed pieces for the increasingly right wing, distinctly middle class Guardian ....... Mixed messages all the time, to the point where people aren't sure they can trust him.frightful_oik wrote:Well I read the OJ article as saying that EM is making some modest proposals that are at least a step in the right direction. But even such modest proposals are atomised by the media. Note the following passages: Perhaps it's because I've been reading his book that it makes more sense to me. I'd agree it could be clearer what he's trying to say. But I can't disagree with what he's saying.
He has stated very publicly, several times, that he will be voting for Labour in May. In marked contrast to Hodges I believe Jones is being sincere; problem is while his vote may be secure, how many is he losing with those mixed signals? I want to like the guy, I really do, but I always think he is looking at what is in it for Owen, rather than what is the right thing to do; and, quite frankly, if Labour did lose in May he won't be going hungry, will he? To him this is an intellectual game, to so many others this is, literally, a matter of life and death.
Love the Richard Desmond one.rebeccariots2 wrote:Those are good snippets. Thanks.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:A few snippets in here.rebeccariots2 wrote: Anyone found his speech yet?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/ed- ... uite-funny" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
All anyone can do is judge them by their actions and output. For all I know he's a greasy pole climber of the worst sort. He's not as working class as I am, that's for sure. But if Prince William were to say that, 'that Chap Cameron is a scoundrel of the lowest type', I'm going to agree with him.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Wasn't meant as a blanket criticism, but apt in Owen's case. I don't suffer from any disabilities - well, I'm asthmatic and have some MH issues, but basically I'm good - but that doesn't mean I'm not sincere about my opposition to IDS, the WCA and all the rest; in exactly the same way I have no doubt about your sincerity, but I do question his on occasion. He is too comfortable and I question his passion ... as I said, I always think he is looking for opportunities for himself to step up the ladder. I may be doing him a disservice and if somebody can demonstrate I am I will apologise/frightful_oik wrote:Quite right. And if Labour lose in May, I won't be going hungry either. But I challenge anyone to loathe the Tories and their kipper mates more than I do. So I don't see that as a valid line of criticism either. My main criticism of this piece is that it isn't shot through with the clarity of meaning I would like to see. Part of that is his style of argument I think. He needs to improve on that I reckon.TheGrimSqueaker wrote: I think the problem with Owen is one of perception, and it is a problem largely of his own making. He talks of how important it is that the Left stays unified in order to fight the real enemy one day, and then does the "I am more Left than you" routine the next; he bangs on about his working class roots and how he is a "4th generation socialist" (although I'd question how working class his roots really are) and then writes on message anti-Ed pieces for the increasingly right wing, distinctly middle class Guardian ....... Mixed messages all the time, to the point where people aren't sure they can trust him.
He has stated very publicly, several times, that he will be voting for Labour in May. In marked contrast to Hodges I believe Jones is being sincere; problem is while his vote may be secure, how many is he losing with those mixed signals? I want to like the guy, I really do, but I always think he is looking at what is in it for Owen, rather than what is the right thing to do; and, quite frankly, if Labour did lose in May he won't be going hungry, will he? To him this is an intellectual game, to so many others this is, literally, a matter of life and death.
