How do people like that chap from the RMT square their view of the Greens with the fact they come nowhere in working class seats?ohsocynical wrote:Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 3 hrs3 hours ago
Revised @LordAshcroft outcome for December Doncast N poll
LAB 55
UKIP 25
CON 13
LD 4
GRN 2
Greens just don't seem to get that if you're hungry - homeless - struggling - under employed - under paid - it's immediate. You can't wait for your life to be fixed in the distant future. You don't have the energy or patience to look that far ahead. The next day is all you can consider.Tubby Isaacs wrote:How do people like that chap from the RMT square their view of the Greens with the fact they come nowhere in working class seats?ohsocynical wrote:Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 3 hrs3 hours ago
Revised @LordAshcroft outcome for December Doncast N poll
LAB 55
UKIP 25
CON 13
LD 4
GRN 2
There's a bloke like that on another board. Labour only just beating UKIP in his hometown (Haywood and Middleton) was because they were too right wing. His Greens lost their deposit.
But a little suffering in the short term is worth it, because real change is needed!! Their sacrifice will not have been in vain. Or something like that.ohsocynical wrote:Greens just don't seem to get that if you're hungry - homeless - struggling - under employed - under paid - it's immediate. You can't wait for your life to be fixed in the distant future. You don't have the energy or patience to look that far ahead. The next day is all you can consider.Tubby Isaacs wrote:How do people like that chap from the RMT square their view of the Greens with the fact they come nowhere in working class seats?ohsocynical wrote:Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 3 hrs3 hours ago
Revised @LordAshcroft outcome for December Doncast N poll
LAB 55
UKIP 25
CON 13
LD 4
GRN 2
There's a bloke like that on another board. Labour only just beating UKIP in his hometown (Haywood and Middleton) was because they were too right wing. His Greens lost their deposit.
There was a rather unkind tweet (in response to John Rentoul tweeting about the RMT Green bloke) saying it might be a good thing if the Greens attracted all the nutters away from the Labour party. (The tweeters words - not mine.) I wonder if that's what he was referring to.Tubby Isaacs wrote:That RMT Green bloke is ex-TUSC. I wonder if they're out of money.
I think the perpetual manning of the 'bruising week for Ed' machine over the past 4 1/2 years might prove to have been a mistake. There's only so much of the same bashing at every opportunity you / the public can take without either switching off to it ... or starting to smell a rat. Whichever happens ... the tactic starts to have less and less impact.Toby Helm @tobyhelm 3m3 minutes ago
Despite bruising week for Ed M, Lab lead at 2 in Op/Obs poll. Lab 34 +1, Con 32 n/c, Lib Dem 7+2, UKIP 15 -3, Green 8 +2. Crisis?
One of my neighbours veers to the Greens.ohsocynical wrote:Greens just don't seem to get that if you're hungry - homeless - struggling - under employed - under paid - it's immediate. You can't wait for your life to be fixed in the distant future. You don't have the energy or patience to look that far ahead. The next day is all you can consider.Tubby Isaacs wrote:How do people like that chap from the RMT square their view of the Greens with the fact they come nowhere in working class seats?ohsocynical wrote:Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 3 hrs3 hours ago
Revised @LordAshcroft outcome for December Doncast N poll
LAB 55
UKIP 25
CON 13
LD 4
GRN 2
There's a bloke like that on another board. Labour only just beating UKIP in his hometown (Haywood and Middleton) was because they were too right wing. His Greens lost their deposit.
I thought it sounded perfectly reasonable.yahyah wrote:Sorry if that sounded grumpy. Blood sugar low, time to get supper going.
You could base a very funny comedy series around a family like that. And the funniest thing would be people like that wouldn't recognise themselves.yahyah wrote:One of my neighbours veers to the Greens.ohsocynical wrote:Greens just don't seem to get that if you're hungry - homeless - struggling - under employed - under paid - it's immediate. You can't wait for your life to be fixed in the distant future. You don't have the energy or patience to look that far ahead. The next day is all you can consider.Tubby Isaacs wrote: How do people like that chap from the RMT square their view of the Greens with the fact they come nowhere in working class seats?
There's a bloke like that on another board. Labour only just beating UKIP in his hometown (Haywood and Middleton) was because they were too right wing. His Greens lost their deposit.
When we were up with her & her hubby the other week it was 'Iraq....Iraq....& that f***ing Blair took all our civil liberties away'. ''All our civil liberties ?'' I asked.
But, guess which is which out of our two households.
Household 1. Large income; don't bother to replace an old, low efficiency oil guzzling Rayburn range boiler; high energy light bulbs in many fittings; travelled over 20,000 miles by car last year ; one of the household flew to at least five foreign destinations, two long haul; rails against supermarkets thinks everyone should buy local and organic but buys stuff from Morrisons then tries to hide it; leaves electrical things on standby when away [am feeding their cats at the moment].
Household 2. Less income; spent money on a 93% effiency boiler and wrap up in fleeces to save burning oil; travelled less than 4,000 miles by car, no air travel; all low energy bulbs in use.
Yet, of course <sarcastic mode> Labour voters don't care about the planet or the future for our grandchildren.
They don't even shop at Waitrose who are a bit more environmentally aware. But Morrisons? Whew !ohsocynical wrote:You could base a very funny comedy series around a family like that. And the funniest thing would be people like that wouldn't recognise themselves.yahyah wrote:One of my neighbours veers to the Greens.ohsocynical wrote: Greens just don't seem to get that if you're hungry - homeless - struggling - under employed - under paid - it's immediate. You can't wait for your life to be fixed in the distant future. You don't have the energy or patience to look that far ahead. The next day is all you can consider.
When we were up with her & her hubby the other week it was 'Iraq....Iraq....& that f***ing Blair took all our civil liberties away'. ''All our civil liberties ?'' I asked.
But, guess which is which out of our two households.
Household 1. Large income; don't bother to replace an old, low efficiency oil guzzling Rayburn range boiler; high energy light bulbs in many fittings; travelled over 20,000 miles by car last year ; one of the household flew to at least five foreign destinations, two long haul; rails against supermarkets thinks everyone should buy local and organic but buys stuff from Morrisons then tries to hide it; leaves electrical things on standby when away [am feeding their cats at the moment].
Household 2. Less income; spent money on a 93% effiency boiler and wrap up in fleeces to save burning oil; travelled less than 4,000 miles by car, no air travel; all low energy bulbs in use.
Yet, of course <sarcastic mode> Labour voters don't care about the planet or the future for our grandchildren.
Or something like that is dead right.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:But a little suffering in the short term is worth it, because real change is needed!! Their sacrifice will not have been in vain. Or something like that.ohsocynical wrote:Greens just don't seem to get that if you're hungry - homeless - struggling - under employed - under paid - it's immediate. You can't wait for your life to be fixed in the distant future. You don't have the energy or patience to look that far ahead. The next day is all you can consider.Tubby Isaacs wrote: How do people like that chap from the RMT square their view of the Greens with the fact they come nowhere in working class seats?
There's a bloke like that on another board. Labour only just beating UKIP in his hometown (Haywood and Middleton) was because they were too right wing. His Greens lost their deposit.
Sounded all right to me. And spot on. Lip service.yahyah wrote:Sorry if that sounded grumpy. Blood sugar low, time to get supper going.
No - not all of them by a fair stretch. But he had a good try. People got worried and, in the last General Election, voted in such a way as to allow the Conservatives along with their familiars, the LibDems, into government believing that all that sort of thing would stop. I wonder how that's going . . . .yahyah wrote:You certainly could OhSo.
The wife asked me if we wanted to go to see a film about how much 'stuff' we all had and how we were wrecking the planet by having so much stuff.
This is a woman who converted two stables to have watertight space to store her boxes of stuff, and had loft space created in two rooms in the house to store more...yes you've guessed.... stuff.
My favourite moment was when her husband was playing mine host one Christmas and we said we really liked the champagne...he said he'd got six bottles on a deal from Morrison's. Wife gave him a look that could have killed !
Still none of us are perfect.
But, really, did Blair take all our civil liberties away ?
They haven't quite lowered themselves to shop at Aldi's then? They should. Some of the best families shop there now. It's almost a badge of honour.yahyah wrote:You certainly could OhSo.
The wife asked me if we wanted to go to see a film about how much 'stuff' we all had and how we were wrecking the planet by having so much stuff.
This is a woman who converted two stables to have watertight space to store her boxes of stuff, and had loft space created in two rooms in the house to store more...yes you've guessed.... stuff.
My favourite moment was when her husband was playing mine host one Christmas and we said we really liked the champagne...he said he'd got six bottles on a deal from Morrison's. Wife gave him a look that could have killed !
Still none of us are perfect.
But, really, did Blair take all our civil liberties away ?
You should drop a hint --- or two 
And I guess there's another difference between them and us...yahyah wrote:You certainly could OhSo.
The wife asked me if we wanted to go to see a film about how much 'stuff' we all had and how we were wrecking the planet by having so much stuff.
This is a woman who converted two stables to have watertight space to store her boxes of stuff, and had loft space created in two rooms in the house to store more...yes you've guessed.... stuff.
My favourite moment was when her husband was playing mine host one Christmas and we said we really liked the champagne...he said he'd got six bottles on a deal from Morrison's. Wife gave him a look that could have killed !
Still none of us are perfect.
But, really, did Blair take all our civil liberties away ?
Sounds like the updated version of Abigail's Party yahyah.yahyah wrote:You certainly could OhSo.
The wife asked me if we wanted to go to see a film about how much 'stuff' we all had and how we were wrecking the planet by having so much stuff.
This is a woman who converted two stables to have watertight space to store her boxes of stuff, and had loft space created in two rooms in the house to store more...yes you've guessed.... stuff.
My favourite moment was when her husband was playing mine host one Christmas and we said we really liked the champagne...he said he'd got six bottles on a deal from Morrison's. Wife gave him a look that could have killed !
Still none of us are perfect.
But, really, did Blair take all our civil liberties away ?
And you'd probably be horrified if you saw how much they owed on their credit cards...ohsocynical wrote:And I guess there's another difference between them and us...yahyah wrote:You certainly could OhSo.
The wife asked me if we wanted to go to see a film about how much 'stuff' we all had and how we were wrecking the planet by having so much stuff.
This is a woman who converted two stables to have watertight space to store her boxes of stuff, and had loft space created in two rooms in the house to store more...yes you've guessed.... stuff.
My favourite moment was when her husband was playing mine host one Christmas and we said we really liked the champagne...he said he'd got six bottles on a deal from Morrison's. Wife gave him a look that could have killed !
Still none of us are perfect.
But, really, did Blair take all our civil liberties away ?
My loft is completely empty. When I have 'stuff', it goes straight to the charity shop.
This, a thousand times this. You've articulated it much better than I could. I just don't get it either.RobertSnozers wrote:I don't get this. I just don't. The Labour Party is more leftwing now than at any time in the last 20 years, so why are these people choosing now to reject it? Do they honestly think that getting rid of Miliband wil make Labour more leftwing? Do they not realise that if Miliband loses, the Blairites will win and there will never be a leftwing Labour Party again? Or do they think that Labour will just die and the Green Party take over?ErnstRemarx wrote:Ah, one of the useful idiots who'd rather return a Tory government than a Labour one. Very helpful - I hope he enjoys his ideological purity if/when the Tories get back in. The self-righteous prick.rebeccariots2 wrote:
Maybe I'm wrong and the country won't go to shit if the Tories win again, or things won't be substantially better with a Labour government, but with ever greater evidence that they're not 'all the same' I fail to see the logic at work here.
I wish I lived around yours and YahYah's neighbours. They'd be a constant source of laughter...rebeccariots2 wrote:Sounds like the updated version of Abigail's Party yahyah.yahyah wrote:You certainly could OhSo.
The wife asked me if we wanted to go to see a film about how much 'stuff' we all had and how we were wrecking the planet by having so much stuff.
This is a woman who converted two stables to have watertight space to store her boxes of stuff, and had loft space created in two rooms in the house to store more...yes you've guessed.... stuff.
My favourite moment was when her husband was playing mine host one Christmas and we said we really liked the champagne...he said he'd got six bottles on a deal from Morrison's. Wife gave him a look that could have killed !
Still none of us are perfect.
But, really, did Blair take all our civil liberties away ?
We have a local person who is all things eco - runs the renewables funding groups - organises tours of other peoples green / eco houses and lifestyles - etc etc etc. They are not however a Green party member - they are actually a committed Plaid Cymru activist who tries to claim all green things originate from them and tells everyone it's not worth voting Green you should vote for PC instead.
The standing joke amongst many of us eco living bods locally is that this person very publicly bought an electric bike for use around here .... (madness, the hills, the hills and more hills) ... and it's a Chinese one, and has a very large and heavy battery. This bike will more or less get them to a meeting (green living group or similar) but never has sufficient battery power left to do the return journey. We all end up having to give them a lift back home in our ancient diesel 4 wheel drive vehicles - which, of course, mostly have enough space to carry the bloody bike too because they are the right sort of vehicle for most of us working the land around here. We also had someone using an old milk float to get around for a while. Similar scenario - only less speed! Used to take them all day to get into Cardigan.
HindleA wrote:Some people can afford to be "green",some people are green without conscious effort (not Party reference.)No car,no air travel,walk/cycle/public transport.Grow own veg,energy efficient lightbulbs/appliances,recycling,second hand shops -it is more being extremelymeancareful to be honest.
You've sussed me.We should, in theory, if we counted the numbers of people adversely affected by this government, end up with the most thumping Labour majority ever seen...So why do I fear we won't?daydreamer wrote:This, a thousand times this. You've articulated it much better than I could. I just don't get it either.RobertSnozers wrote:I don't get this. I just don't. The Labour Party is more leftwing now than at any time in the last 20 years, so why are these people choosing now to reject it? Do they honestly think that getting rid of Miliband wil make Labour more leftwing? Do they not realise that if Miliband loses, the Blairites will win and there will never be a leftwing Labour Party again? Or do they think that Labour will just die and the Green Party take over?ErnstRemarx wrote: Ah, one of the useful idiots who'd rather return a Tory government than a Labour one. Very helpful - I hope he enjoys his ideological purity if/when the Tories get back in. The self-righteous prick.
Maybe I'm wrong and the country won't go to shit if the Tories win again, or things won't be substantially better with a Labour government, but with ever greater evidence that they're not 'all the same' I fail to see the logic at work here.
If we reject Labour in May, then we're saying, as a nation, that we don't want social democracy, in any form, not even a watered down version. It that comes to pass, I fear it'll never be offered again. In my mind the next election is the most important of a generation.
Night PF.PorFavor wrote:@ tinyclanger2
I don't know what's been going on but I haven't edited anything at all today (maybe I've been missing the errors). I'm sure normal service will be resumed very soon.
For now, though, goodnight to you and to everyone else.
Damn. Me too. Apart from the car that is. But we have an impressively low mileage on the clock. To make up for it, we don't go on holiday [nil air miles since 1969 and nil road miles either] buy new clothes or anything else much if I can get it second hand, and we use energy saving light bulbs and turn off standby lights because it really does save on bills.yahyah wrote:HindleA wrote:Some people can afford to be "green",some people are green without conscious effort (not Party reference.)No car,no air travel,walk/cycle/public transport.Grow own veg,energy efficient lightbulbs/appliances,recycling,second hand shops -it is more being extremelymeancareful to be honest.
Night PF...refitman wrote:Night PF.PorFavor wrote:@ tinyclanger2
I don't know what's been going on but I haven't edited anything at all today (maybe I've been missing the errors). I'm sure normal service will be resumed very soon.
For now, though, goodnight to you and to everyone else.
See you tomorrow.To be fair, I've always had to be careful. Lived by make do and mend. It's second nature.HindleA wrote:Some people can afford to be "green",some people are green without conscious effort (not Party reference.)No car,no air travel,walk/cycle/public transport.Grow own veg,energy efficient lightbulbs/appliances,recycling,second hand shops -it is more being extremelymeancareful to be honest.
That's us too. I'd also add - the forgotten art of 'mending' things. I (and Mr Riots also, to his credit) repair our clothes and anything else we can. We also scavenge and re use as many materials as possible. We maybe have a single bag for the rubbish collection every 3 or 4 weeks or so. We don't waste anything if at all possible. But the meme probably has us as members of the generation that doesn't care about the planet - and is greedy and is using all the planet's resources to the detriment of the young. Somehow we have to find a way of breaking out of this horribly divisive framing of every important issue these days. We - our generation - have a lot to pass on to younger people about how we made and make the most of everything - and don't accept the built in obsolescence / disposable culture of later generations. We've been set up against each other ... and that's not true or useful.ohsocynical wrote:Damn. Me too. Apart from the car that is. But we have an impressively low mileage on the clock. To make up for it, we don't go on holiday [nil air miles since 1969 and nil road miles either] buy new clothes or anything else much if I can get it second hand, and we use energy saving light bulbs and turn off standby lights because it really does save on bills.yahyah wrote:HindleA wrote:Some people can afford to be "green",some people are green without conscious effort (not Party reference.)No car,no air travel,walk/cycle/public transport.Grow own veg,energy efficient lightbulbs/appliances,recycling,second hand shops -it is more being extremelymeancareful to be honest.
Night PFPorFavor wrote:@ tinyclanger2
I don't know what's been going on but I haven't edited anything at all today (maybe I've been missing the errors). I'm sure normal service will be resumed very soon.
For now, though, goodnight to you and to everyone else.
No George Osborne?AngryAsWell wrote:The people connected to David Cameron who are linked to tax avoidance
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/t ... gylgIvPk2e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They certainly make a mockery of the concept of Green.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Night PF.
@Ohso and Yahyah, problem is that people like that give Greens (like Tizme and Tem) a bad name; they result in the oft raised accusation of them being a comfortable & middle class party, which isn't entirely fair.
Every day, in every way, my astonishment at the sheer cleverness of our beloved Government gets ever greater.AngryAsWell wrote:Bedroom Tax leaves 1,500 larger homes empty and councils with a £20MILLION rent deficit
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/be ... er-5124510" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am almost tempted to go and read that, the comments BTL must be very revealing.HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... homophobia
Labour plans blacklist to curb rising hate crime in U.K.
People convicted of homophobic, transgender or disability hate crime would be put on a “blacklist” to warn future employers of past misdemeanours under new proposals by Labour.
The shadow home secretary, Yvette Cooper, will on Monday unveil a strategy to tackle the UK’s soaring rise in antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia and abuse of people with disabilities. The package includes making homophobic and disability hate crimes an aggravated criminal offence, ensuring that police treat such offences in the same way as racist hate crimes.
Hunting ban could only apply in England under Welsh devolution plan
The change could see hunting with packs of dogs introduced in Wales in a similar model to Scotland, where packs can be used to flush out foxes before they are humanely put down. Hunting with dogs is legal in Northern Ireland, which would leave England as the sole redoubt for the hunting ban
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -plan.html
There you go - for anyone still in any doubt about the seriously feudal wildlife bashing tendency in Plaid .... who like to present themselves as environmentally friendly and progressive. They are anything but ...The right to legalise hunting in some form could be one of the measures devolved to Wales as part of a new devolution settlement later this month.
The idea, which is backed by Welsh secretary Stephen Crabb as long as it has cross-party support, is supported by Plaid Cyrmu, local farmers and hunting campaigners, as well as some Tory MPs.
Currently the Hunting Act 2004 restricts hunting to no more than two dogs in England and Wales, to flush out foxes after which they have to be shot.
But the change could see hunting with packs of dogs introduced in Wales in a similar model to Scotland, where packs can be used to flush out foxes before they are humanely put down.
