Thursday 12th February 2015

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 12:33 pm

Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 1m1 minute ago
Loud applause as Miliband says he stands by his PMQs comments on tax avoidance. Laughter as he says Lord Fink thinks "everyone does it".

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 12:39 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Has Havisham just libelled Miliband?

Dan Hodges @DPJHodges · 9 mins 9 minutes ago
Ed's basically smearing Fink. Using legal tax avoidance to link him with tax evasion scandal. Dirty politics. Will probably work.

I think the issue is acceptable tax avoidance.

If a normal person can do it fine, although in my view loopholes need closing.

If you start using Swiss bank accounts you have probably crossed a line.

On a cheerier note that IPSOS-MORI poll is bad news for David Cameron.

9% looks like UKIP base to me, and he isn't in the lead. His rubbish about winning if he can get 5% from UKIP (no chance) looks hollow.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 12:47 pm

James Tapsfield ‏@JamesTapsfield 2m2 minutes ago
Ed M: "The difference between today and yesterday is that Lord Fink is saying what I said about Lord Fink"

Nice one.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 12:48 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Has Havisham just libelled Miliband?

Dan Hodges @DPJHodges · 9 mins 9 minutes ago
Ed's basically smearing Fink. Using legal tax avoidance to link him with tax evasion scandal. Dirty politics. Will probably work.
I think the issue is acceptable tax avoidance.

If a normal person can do it fine, although in my view loopholes need closing.

If you start using Swiss bank accounts you have probably crossed a line.

On a cheerier note that IPSOS-MORI poll is bad news for David Cameron.

9% looks like UKIP base to me, and he isn't in the lead. His rubbish about winning if he can get 5% from UKIP (no chance) looks hollow.

The key word is "avoidance", bending the rules to gain advantage but not breaking them, as that would be evasion. Miliband accused nobody of evasion, he is simply highlighting the scale of (legally ok-ish, but morally wrong) avoidance; so Dan's statement is inaccurate, defamatory and probably actionable. He may want to watch his step, his hatred appears to be taking him over a line that could get him into serious trouble; and, let us be honest, I doubt he has a whole heap of friends who will step up to the plate when the poo hits the spinny thing.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 12:52 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... f-england-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Utter disaster for the economy. Public investment on a massive scale is the only way out of this.Tax idle capital that is held back from investment and invest it ourselves.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 12:59 pm

'Lord Fink, the former Conservative treasurer who threatened to sue Ed Miliband over his comments on tax avoidance, has conceded that the practice is normal in British society.'

Wintour's first paragraph. Could get no further. That is supposed to be journalism?

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:00 pm

QT tonight:

On the panel are Liberal Democrat energy secretary Ed Davey MP, Labour's shadow culture minister Chris Bryant MP, Conservative chair of the health select committee Sarah Wollaston MP, UKIP deputy chairman Suzanne Evans and the satirist Armando Iannucci, creator of The Thick of It and co-creator of Alan Partridge.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:04 pm

mikems wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... f-england-

Utter disaster for the economy. Public investment on a massive scale is the only way out of this.Tax idle capital that is held back from investment and invest it ourselves.

What is interesting to me is that the trigger for deflation is the reduction in oil prices, which would normally be a good thing for an economy. If the only driver for inflation is energy costs you probably have a huge issue.

It needs a wealth tax, let's invade Switzerland.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:05 pm

Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 4m4 minutes ago
Ed Miliband is told Lord Fink has accused him of a "major climbdown", he smiles: "Now I've heard it all!"

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:12 pm

refitman wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Follow up to that analysis piece on reinventing organisations - no need for austerity. I've found this explanation of the example given of a 'neighbourhood nursing' organisation in Holland. (Started as a group of 10 nurses - now accounts for 75% of community nursing in Holland as all the nurses want to work there.) It doesn't rely on digital technology at all - it's about treating people as the human beings they are and understanding the importance of relationships and autonomy.
[youtube]_k90OANq9bA[/youtube]

Editing to add: So how does this example fit in with an Amazon model? Very confused now.
I have a feeling Holland is the country that first dismantled its national postal service and replaced it with private competing companies, none of which pay proper wages, with people sorting post in their homes. The end result is customers getting up to 6 deliveries a day, all by people who can't really afford to live on their pay, instead of one delivery by a single properly paid person, backed up by other properly paid people working in purpose built sorting centres. I think we should possibly be sceptical about anything coming out of Holland being the future. It's no longer the progressive country it once was.
The Graun did a piece on the Dutch postal service (or lack thereof) 4 years ago: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/apr/ ... s-delivery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Makes pretty shocking reading.

Ah, there you go. The article is by James Meek and it was in his book Private Island that I read abut the Dutch postal service recently (MichaelSylvain recommended the book some months ago btl but the library only had 3 copies and about 18 reservations so I only got my hands on a copy a few weeks ago! It's very good). The only way our postal service can avoid the same fate now it's privatised is if it retains control of depot to door deliveries as it does now (with other services delivering their collected post to the depots for onward delivery) - rather in the manner of the way BT still has responsibility for all our phone lines that they maintain and repair on behalf of other suppliers, which sort of works, just about.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:14 pm

http://www.solicitorsjournal.com/commen ... -speak-out" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Judges at breaking point finally speak out"

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:14 pm

TE

What is interesting to me is that the trigger for deflation is the reduction in oil prices

It sure is a very clear sign that the economy is in deep trouble. Never had negative inflation in this country before.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:17 pm

It's insane to continue austerity if there is deflation. But is anyone going to acknowledge reality?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:25 pm

mikems wrote:It's insane to continue austerity if there is deflation. But is anyone going to acknowledge reality?

Carney has been saying it's just a deflationary blip and we'll be back to normal inflation soon, so not like Japan.

Whether I believe him is another matter.

But yes agreed. Austerity is bad for any economy, but positively encouraging people to put off spending when deflation is on the horizon looks like a perfect storm.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:33 pm

Rob Merrick ‏@Rob_Merrick 31m31 minutes ago
Ministers on #fracking last month: "We'll ban in National Parks!" ....last night: "Not practical to guarantee that" (as Bill went through)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:36 pm

Fire brigade is going to be busy

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-02-12/fire ... call-outs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Fire brigade braced for rise in Fifty Shades call outs"

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:47 pm

HindleA wrote:Fire brigade is going to be busy

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-02-12/fire ... call-outs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Fire brigade braced for rise in Fifty Shades call outs"

A good friend of mine is a fireman. He told us of a recent call-out to a local "Massage Parlour" where a masseuse had lost the key to a pair of pink fluffy handcuffs which were at that point being used

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:49 pm

"It's not what it seems"

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:53 pm

Deflation must be a part of the long term economic plan, otherwise how on earth could it even be a possibility? After all, we are told the plan is working, so this must be part of it.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 1:59 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote: The key word is "avoidance", bending the rules to gain advantage but not breaking them, as that would be evasion.

Tax avoidance means using the rules, not bending them.
Unfortunately our tax system is so complicated nobody knows where the boundaries are and PWC and others can get rich using that to their clients advantage.

For example, back in the day when I paid higher rate tax and interest rates were high, I could put my savings in mr gilsey's building society account and he paid basic rate tax on the interest.
That's the sort of thing 'everybody does', it is tax avoidance but in no way bending the rules. I ran the risk that he could scarper with the money.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:04 pm

Guardian news ‏@guardiannews 2m2 minutes ago
Cathy Newman to take break from Twitter after row over mosque visit http://d.gu.com/8WYx6W" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:08 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tim Montgomerie ن ‏@montie 10m10 minutes ago
Ed Miliband standing up to wealthy Tory donor. Whatever the merits of the case, Ed Miliband wins the politics.

Oh, Gawd, Tim! Take a couple of pain relievers with a shot of goodforwhatailsyou & take a nap.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:14 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 4m4 minutes ago
Ed Miliband is told Lord Fink has accused him of a "major climbdown", he smiles: "Now I've heard it all!"

'it's merely a flesh wound!', says the Lord Fink.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:19 pm

mikems wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... f-england-

Utter disaster for the economy. Public investment on a massive scale is the only way out of this.Tax idle capital that is held back from investment and invest it ourselves.

Yep. And there's so much good work to be done. Public transportation, home building, renewable energy infrastructure, communications infrastructure...feel free to adjust this list & expand.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:26 pm

mikems wrote:Man dodges taxes and donates £3 million to the tories..his company wins bundles of contracts for public provision...and they've done nothing wrong.

His world is becoming increasingly uncomfortable for him, I think.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:28 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Guardian news ‏@guardiannews 2m2 minutes ago
Cathy Newman to take break from Twitter after row over mosque visit http://d.gu.com/8WYx6W" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would like to think that episode has caused some self-reflection on her part.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:29 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Good afternoon.

I really am sick of this shit:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1140811 ... oment.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And so is everyone else!

Nick Robinson Verified account
‏@bbcnickrobinson
Calm down Twitter. I did not quote anyone re Ed M & Milly Dowler. Said his aides saw this as moment like that ie to stand up to powerful

https://twitter.com/bbcnickrobinson/sta ... 9883696128

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:32 pm

Nick Robinson's Twitter feed is glorious.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:35 pm

HindleA wrote:"It's not what it seems"

"Grrr - that's what they ALL say!!"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:39 pm

http://labourlist.org/2015/02/iain-dunc ... s-concern/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re IDS mooted wheeze regarding council housing /housing association properties

Residualisation is a term for housing geeks like me. But basically it means the paring back to the bare minimum. In this case the levels of social housing stock. When the stock become more and more scarce, it becomes that housing of last resort that the Tories have always viewed it as. And it becomes easier to perpetuate the stereotypes of failure and neglect that brings stigmatisation of those living in our social housing stock.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:43 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Has Havisham just libelled Miliband?

I think the issue is acceptable tax avoidance.

If a normal person can do it fine, although in my view loopholes need closing.

If you start using Swiss bank accounts you have probably crossed a line.

On a cheerier note that IPSOS-MORI poll is bad news for David Cameron.

9% looks like UKIP base to me, and he isn't in the lead. His rubbish about winning if he can get 5% from UKIP (no chance) looks hollow.
The key word is "avoidance", bending the rules to gain advantage but not breaking them, as that would be evasion. Miliband accused nobody of evasion, he is simply highlighting the scale of (legally ok-ish, but morally wrong) avoidance; so Dan's statement is inaccurate, defamatory and probably actionable. He may want to watch his step, his hatred appears to be taking him over a line that could get him into serious trouble; and, let us be honest, I doubt he has a whole heap of friends who will step up to the plate when the poo hits the spinny thing.

Yesterday on one of the links I read, they said PWC bosses are very friendly with Swiss HSBC bankers and between them a while back came up with another tax dodging scheme.

There are legal loopholes, I'm awful at finance, but I think one of the loopholes is to promise that eventually you'll settle abroad. I think that was how it went.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:45 pm

It really is quite surreal hearing all these right-wing cheerleaders merrily telling us a bit of deflation is no problem. Especially when even low inflation is the exact opposite of what is needed when so many countries across the Eurozone (our biggest market) are struggling with high debts. Growth and reasonable inflation (remember the target rate is 2% and is so for good reasons) help to inflate sovereign debts away. Deflation will make those debts worse. Meanwhile wage growth will stall making our household debt crisis something of a ticking timebomb. The reality is high global commodity prices have been obscuring an underlying low inflation problem, which has now become more visible as oil prices tumble. Oil prices could well go back up, taking us nominally out of deflation (hence Carney's confidence it will only be shortlived if it happens) but the underlying economic situation isn't going to change until we change economic policy. That's the long and the short of it and if Japan's experience is anything to go by there aren't any easy answers - or at least, no conventional ones, anyway.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:48 pm

More here.
http://www.newstatesman.com/jonn-elledg ... elp-us-all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The Conservatives were once the natural party of government. Today they're a pale Margaret Thatcher tribute act constitutionally incapable of examining why they can’t get a thumping great majority any more.

And Iain Duncan Smith is setting housing policy. God help us all"

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 2:50 pm

Just seen a clip of Farage on the BBC, looked most uncomfortable when asked about the Lord Fink tax avoidance story (as well as very sweaty and jowly). Tried to waffle on about the danger of the black economy being more important, presumably plumbers working cash in hand are considered far worse than multi millionaire tax dodgers down at UKIP towers, but eventually came up with the classic argument that if only the tax system were "simplified" people would stop indulging in these dubious schemes. Presumably in the same way that if we were allowed to just things from shops without paying, people would stop shoplifting.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:02 pm

HindleA wrote:http://labourlist.org/2015/02/iain-dunc ... s-concern/

Re IDS mooted wheeze regarding council housing /housing association properties

Residualisation is a term for housing geeks like me. But basically it means the paring back to the bare minimum. In this case the levels of social housing stock. When the stock become more and more scarce, it becomes that housing of last resort that the Tories have always viewed it as. And it becomes easier to perpetuate the stereotypes of failure and neglect that brings stigmatisation of those living in our social housing stock.

I can't think of anything more likely to alianate the Tory key vote than giving away Council houses to people who come off benefits. You only have to go below the line on any story about social housing to come across angry Tories who view anybody, working or not, who lives in social housing as some kind of parasite who are getting "something for nothing" while they have had to struggle through life paying private rents or take out a massive mortgage to own their own house. The thought of these tenants, who've already benefited from lower rents for years, then being given the very same, ultimate symbol of middle class respectability for nothing, or at a massive discount, that Mr Tory has struggled and scrimped to get himself would probably make him explode in fury. For every odd grateful Labour voter they picked up they'd probably lose at least ten to UKIP. I don't think Dungbag Smith has thought it through (just like every other stupid idea he's ever had).

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:10 pm

This is absolutely bloody brilliant

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2015/02/ ... nreliable/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

anger-over-lib-dem-remarks-never-trust-the-public-theyre-deeply-unreliable

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:26 pm

Ed Miliband is actually getting not disfavourable coverage on the BBC today. Even the Norman Smith person afforded him a "Mr" in his report.

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:33 pm

Sparrow just refers to him as Miliband,yet all the other leaders he calls by their full names.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:42 pm

Tish wrote:Just seen a clip of Farage on the BBC, looked most uncomfortable when asked about the Lord Fink tax avoidance story (as well as very sweaty and jowly). Tried to waffle on about the danger of the black economy being more important, presumably plumbers working cash in hand are considered far worse than multi millionaire tax dodgers down at UKIP towers, but eventually came up with the classic argument that if only the tax system were "simplified" people would stop indulging in these dubious schemes. Presumably in the same way that if we were allowed to just things from shops without paying, people would stop shoplifting.

I sensed that Nigel Farage has hit the buffers\painted himself into a corner\taken the 'bus down a narrow cul-de-sac - and knows it (in an involuntary exhibition of self-awareness). He daren't talk about policy because that always ends up in so much desperate back-pedalling - but he's run out of time for the mere waffle which has, let's be honest, served him fairly well to date. I think he knows it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:45 pm

JustMom wrote:Sparrow just refers to him as Miliband,yet all the other leaders he calls by their full names.

They call him Mr Sparrow . . .

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:47 pm

JustMom wrote:Sparrow just refers to him as Miliband,yet all the other leaders he calls by their full names.

Miliband would probably see this as positive - since there's obviously no need to to avoid the sibling ambiguity any more. There is only one Miliband

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:49 pm

JustMom wrote:Sparrow just refers to him as Miliband,yet all the other leaders he calls by their full names.

So Andrew isn't even bothering to pretend now?

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:51 pm

It just seems so disrespectful ,I really thought sparrow was ok,but he's as bad as the rest of the bloody tories.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:53 pm

As advertised earlier, here's Mark Carney "looking through the inflation slump"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... rary-slump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

boe-sees-inflation-strengthening-end-2015-after-temporary-slump

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:57 pm

Been looking at some videos of Ed Miliband from when he was Sec. of State for Energy & Climate.

Mehdi Hasan referred to the 2009 climate change summit, when the Sudanese diplomat made some ridiculous statement about the deal being proposed. Ed got a standing ovation from certain members of the UN.

A little background;

With emotions running high, Lumumba Di-Aping, the Sudanese chair of the G77 group of 130 poor countries, caused outrage when he compared the deal to the Holocaust. "[This] is asking Africa to sign a suicide pact, an incineration pact in order to maintain the economic dependence of a few countries," he said. " It's a solution based on values that funnelled six million people in Europe into furnaces."
His comments brought a furious response from British Energy and Climate Change Secretary Ed Miliband, who labelled the comparison "disgusting".
Visibly angry, Miliband prompted applause when he told the summit: "This is a document produced in good faith that is by no means perfect but which will improve the lives of millions of people. The other choice is what ambassador Lumumba offers us. It is a choice of disgusting comparisons to the holocaust and of wrecking this conference. What will the world think of us if we come out after two years with simply an information document?

http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/18 ... nal-accord" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A very good speech really, long before the msm were selective in what they allowed us to see of him.

Buried deep in the BBC archives ;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8422026.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: ScreenShot00214.jpg (88.68 KiB) Viewed 11241 times

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 3:59 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:As advertised earlier, here's Mark Carney "looking through the inflation slump"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... rary-slump" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

boe-sees-inflation-strengthening-end-2015-after-temporary-slump

Yes. I'm very perplexed. I thought the present economic situation (terms and conditions apply) meant that the wind was set fair for a rise in interest rates according to what he has said in the recent past.

Edited to remove surplus full stop.

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 4:00 pm

Here's another good one of him, again in 2009 sticking it to Nigella's old fart of a dad

[youtube]D0wi9kMXHyQ[/youtube]

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 4:11 pm

More inadvertent mirth from the Guardian, or intentional, never can tell.

Under the headline ''Lib Dems fall to 25 year low'' is the sub heading ''Clegg to lay down key demands in coalition talks''.

Obviously in Guardian land the two are not linked.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 4:16 pm

HindleA wrote:http://labourlist.org/2015/02/iain-dunc ... s-concern/

Re IDS mooted wheeze regarding council housing /housing association properties

Residualisation is a term for housing geeks like me. But basically it means the paring back to the bare minimum. In this case the levels of social housing stock. When the stock become more and more scarce, it becomes that housing of last resort that the Tories have always viewed it as. And it becomes easier to perpetuate the stereotypes of failure and neglect that brings stigmatisation of those living in our social housing stock.

All very true.

As with most of IDS's ideas, there is a very long game going on here. It's not just about the increasing scarcity of stock, as by "gifting" people their homes they end up in the private sector - it's about what will happen to the people it's allegedly going to be "gifted" to.

We all know how precarious the job market is, especially at the low-paid end. People coming of benefits into some not-very-well-paid work may well be "gifted" their home.
Then when their job disappears, they can't claim HB because they own their home. They won't be able to claim UC either. Because they own an asset and they will fail the means-test.
So if they can't get a new job they'll have to sell. That will net them some cash, which they will then have to live on until they find a new job - because they can't claim any benefits.
So the home they are "gifted" becomes cash, they have to find somewhere to live (which will be in the private sector), and if they run out of money before they find work they go back on benefits again.

In quite a short space of time, this person could lose their rights to council/social housing, they could lose whatever they make if they sell it, and IDS has got another home out of the public sector into the private.
This is already happening to a degree with the bedroom tax - there are more than 1,500 larger homes standing empty because of this; some LAs and HAs have sold off stock because they can't fill it with people who won't take it on because of the tax; and the lists get longer while the stock diminishes.
Osborne is extending Right To Buy with massive discounts; the bedroom tax is causing problems; and now it's possible that some new cunning plan to move yet more stock into private hands is on the cards.

I could weep.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 4:23 pm

NumbrCrunchrPolitics ‏@NCPoliticsUK 4 hrs4 hours ago
New #GE2015 forecast from @pollingobs has initial seat projections of:

CON 269
LAB 293
LIB 21
UKIP 1
SNP 47