Thursday 12th February 2015

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:15 pm

Spacedone wrote:
Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4h4 hours ago
Which party do you trust on which issue? Labour ahead on seven, Tories and UKIP on two. (via ComRes)

Not bad for a party led by such a loser eh.....

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:21 pm

Hello everyone. I've been guest viewing here for a while, but I've decided to do the decent thing and sign up (take one off the Hugo count).

I work in IT and Housing so I'll be posting a few political titbits from those areas from time to time for your delectation.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:23 pm

GetYou wrote:Hello everyone. I've been guest viewing here for a while, but I've decided to do the decent thing and sign up (take one off the Hugo count).

I work in IT and Housing so I'll be posting a few political titbits from those areas from time to time for your delectation.

Hi GetYou & welcome to our haven.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:24 pm

Hello GetYou ... big welcome to FTN. So glad you have come in from the cold (and that we have one less Hugo possibility to worry about).

Will look forward to those titbits.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:25 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote: I've tried very politely to say here before that we folk might just consider a more benign view of the SNP - surely the most likely outcome of the next GE is a Labour / SNP arrangement of some kind.

This would IMHO be just fine. The SNP have no interest in making claims about being left wing. Labour will be more than happy to give them more autonomy, which is fine by me. And the rest of us can get on with saving the NHS, stopping persecution of the disabled, living wage, schools back on track, environment, Lords reform and all the things we care about.

P.S. If I were Ed and in a position to do so I would include the Greens in such an alliance even if the arithmetic didn't dictate it.

The SNP make claims about being left wing all the time. Sturgeon yesterday claimed what she said might resonate with the Labour movement. What she said probably did. What the do in Scotland is the problem.

More autonomy re-opens the English question. That dog hasn't barked as much as Cameron thought it would so far, but it's awkward. And as Eric says, he didn't vote NO to get independence coming by the back door.

Everything you want can be done anyway. The SNP can blather on all they like. They can't bring the government down.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:27 pm

@ GetYou

Hello, there!

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:28 pm

Hi GetYou, and welcome. Still plenty of jaffa cakes in the cupboard.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:39 pm

Hi Get You !

On a completely unrelated subject:

Have seen much written about how expensive it can be for benefit claimants to ring some DWP phone numbers.

Yet the phone number for info & application for Osborne's Bribe Pensioners Before the Election Savings Bonds is, surprise, surprise, a freephone number.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:39 pm

GetYou wrote:Hello everyone. I've been guest viewing here for a while, but I've decided to do the decent thing and sign up (take one off the Hugo count).

I work in IT and Housing so I'll be posting a few political titbits from those areas from time to time for your delectation.

Surely IT and housing is a challenge in the modern world.

Back in the day a family of four used to live in my Commodore PET's dual floppy disk drives. These days a modern computer would be hard pressed to accomodate IDS's conscience.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:41 pm

Ooh Jaffa Cakes, that's a nice welcome, thanks everyone.

I've been off GU for a week and I'm certainly not missing the random coloured rectangles or the troll-infested comments. This place has an alltogether warmer ambience.

It's fair to say the reaction to IDS' latest masterpiece from the handful of people I've talked about it today in the office was one of utter disbelief.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:48 pm

Hello GetYou... Good to see you.

And the good news keeps on coming.

Dave Williams ‏@realdavedoubleu 17 mins17 minutes ago
#nigelfarage now saying #ukip breakthrough in 2020 - no earthquake this year - making excuses early to save his job?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:51 pm

GetYou wrote:Ooh Jaffa Cakes, that's a nice welcome, thanks everyone.

I've been off GU for a week and I'm certainly not missing the random coloured rectangles or the troll-infested comments. This place has an alltogether warmer ambience.

It's fair to say the reaction to IDS' latest masterpiece from the handful of people I've talked about it today in the office was one of utter disbelief.

Sheer idiocy, and utterly empty rhetoric. Just to put you in the picture, I worked as a housing officer a few years back so have some experience of the sector, but well out of the loop now.

@yahyah, nobody should ever have to ring an 0845 number, let alone somebody struggling financially anyway.

http://www.saynoto0870.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:56 pm

Talking of idiots ... I thought i knew it all about Iain Duncan Smith but this is a new one on me
"April 2003 - When it rains it pours

Iain Duncan Smith mistook as genuine a spoof advertising campaign promoting his beleaguered party. Standing obligingly in front of the fake billboard, the Tory leader was happily pictured under the slogan "It rained less under a conservative government." The slogan was dreamt up by a panel of New Labour veterans, former Tory staffers, and advertising whizzes assembled by the Guardian with the brief to reinvent the Tory "brand".

Attempting to laugh away IDS' latest gaffe, a spokesman for the embarrassed leader said: "We are delighted that the Guardian has the best interests of the Conservative party at heart. You may have stumbled across a fundamental truth that Britain does better under the Conservatives."

: idsmurdo5372.jpg (18.44 KiB) Viewed 10113 times

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/200 ... vatives.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 6:58 pm

Hello GetYou

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-31443477" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Immigration Street to be shown as one hour documentary"(originallly 6
episodes)

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:07 pm

I wouldn't think that Hammersmith is judged to be much of a marginal, what with council results and what not?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-31362789" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:11 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:I wouldn't think that Hammersmith is judged to be much of a marginal, what with council results and what not?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-31362789" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mansion Tax might be a factor there. Slaughter, being on the front bench, hasn't opposed it.

He should be all right, but the gentrifying and social cleansing has been incredibly aggressive there. On the other hand, the ethnic minority population is presumably rising.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:11 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:I wouldn't think that Hammersmith is judged to be much of a marginal, what with council results and what not?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-31362789" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mansion Tax might be a factor there. Slaughter, being on the front bench, hasn't opposed it.

He should be all right, but the gentrifying and social cleansing has been incredibly aggressive there. On the other hand, the ethnic minority population is presumably rising.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:12 pm

Not worrying about what's going on in the country or even the world, Dave enjoyed playing with George's train set today

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:25 pm

Hello @GetYou, welcome to the Haven. I look forward to your contributions and hope you'll enjoy yourself here!

Post by **refitman** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:37 pm

GetYou wrote:Hello everyone. I've been guest viewing here for a while, but I've decided to do the decent thing and sign up (take one off the Hugo count).

I work in IT and Housing so I'll be posting a few political titbits from those areas from time to time for your delectation.

Hello GetYou, welcome!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:37 pm

Goodnight, everyone.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:37 pm

Warning ! Do not look at the image in this tweet if you feel at all unwell or have recently eaten !

A special tribute for the onlooking trolls that are long blocked. Enjoy. pic.twitter.com/A2DD9D6KaA

(" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:40 pm

pk1 wrote:Warning ! Do not look at the image in this tweet if you feel at all unwell or have recently eaten !

A special tribute for the onlooking trolls that are long blocked. Enjoy. pic.twitter.com/A2DD9D6KaA
(" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

I saw that one. Some of Jon's finest work!!

Edited to say ---- Night PF!

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:44 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
pk1 wrote:Warning ! Do not look at the image in this tweet if you feel at all unwell or have recently eaten !

A special tribute for the onlooking trolls that are long blocked. Enjoy. pic.twitter.com/A2DD9D6KaA
(" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
I saw that one. Some of Jon's finest work!!

Was a shock to the system for sure

:lol!:

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:45 pm

Toby Latimer wrote:Talking of idiots ... I thought i knew it all about Iain Duncan Smith but this is a new one one me

"April 2003 - When it rains it pours

Iain Duncan Smith mistook as genuine a spoof advertising campaign promoting his beleaguered party. Standing obligingly in front of the fake billboard, the Tory leader was happily pictured under the slogan "It rained less under a conservative government." The slogan was dreamt up by a panel of New Labour veterans, former Tory staffers, and advertising whizzes assembled by the Guardian with the brief to reinvent the Tory "brand".

Attempting to laugh away IDS' latest gaffe, a spokesman for the embarrassed leader said: "We are delighted that the Guardian has the best interests of the Conservative party at heart. You may have stumbled across a fundamental truth that Britain does better under the Conservatives."

idsmurdo5372.jpg

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/200 ... vatives.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That has really cheered me up. What a ninny. (I hope that's not an unknowingly offensive term to any particular group other than IDSs and their ilk - for whom I hope it is exceedingly offensive.)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:46 pm

Friday 19 March 2010

Lord Ashcroft affair: The main players

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... in-players

Instances of dodgy deals litter the last five years. I suppose it was about time the electorate caught on.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:49 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:50 pm

Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 1h1 hour ago
Impressed by the graciousness of a mosque trustee in Channel 4 presenter Cathy Newman's "fog of Islamaphobia" scandal http://gu.com/p/45mz3/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So am I.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 7:59 pm

pk1 wrote:Not worrying about what's going on in the country or even the world, Dave enjoyed playing with George's train set today

Caption:
"What's the deadman's handle?"
"I think it's Dave"

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 8:02 pm

MP challenges trolls: Wouldn't say it to mum? Don't post it on my Facebook.
http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/ana ... ok-trolls/

Blimey. I know the actions of a few ranting extremists shouldn't be amplified to include the whole of the group they claim to represent ... but it must be very hard to keep yourself from doing that when you are faced with this kind of abuse. Hat off to Margaret Curran (and I'm not usually that impressed by her.)

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 8:04 pm

Does the use of a deed of variation to the Labour party leader’s father’s will really amount to tax avoidance?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -variation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Verdict
This kind of deed was often used to reduce tax bills before the new transfer rule came into effect in 2007.

However, the changes in 2007 mean that a surviving spouse now inherits the tax-free sum that their partner did not use. Without the deed of variation, the beneficiaries of Marion’s estate would benefit from any of Ralph’s unused allowance as well as her allowance; with it, they will only get anything that wasn’t used. So there is no tax advantage.

(my bold)

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 8:09 pm

pk1 wrote:
Does the use of a deed of variation to the Labour party leader’s father’s will really amount to tax avoidance?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -variation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Verdict
This kind of deed was often used to reduce tax bills before the new transfer rule came into effect in 2007.

However, the changes in 2007 mean that a surviving spouse now inherits the tax-free sum that their partner did not use. Without the deed of variation, the beneficiaries of Marion’s estate would benefit from any of Ralph’s unused allowance as well as her allowance; with it, they will only get anything that wasn’t used. So there is no tax advantage.
(my bold)

They must have been spitting blood when they reached that conclusion!! I'm guessing it isn't a Wintour piece?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 8:10 pm

pk1 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
pk1 wrote:Warning ! Do not look at the image in this tweet if you feel at all unwell or have recently eaten !
(" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
I saw that one. Some of Jon's finest work!!
Was a shock to the system for sure

He owes me a new keyboard!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 8:10 pm

I see they're trying to dig up some - any - tax dirt on Miliband now.

G article headline - Did Ed Miliband avoid inheritance tax on his parents' home?

I'm not going to link to it. I'm not going to look at it.

Editing to add: aaah - I see some of you are there before me. And the conclusion is pretty much as I thought it would be ... the sound of dregs being scraped at.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 8:11 pm

N'night PF. Sweet dreams x

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 8:26 pm

: Kinnock Advising Preseli Pembs Candidate.jpg (46.22 KiB) Viewed 9940 times

Nia Griffith ‏@NiaGriffithMP 22m22 minutes ago
Neil Kinnock advising @PaulMiller Labour's candidate for Preseli Pembs #win2015 -0p-[=

I'll see if I can find out what words of wisdom he was imparting. Paul looks like he's paying attention anyway.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 8:26 pm

pk1 wrote:Not worrying about what's going on in the country or even the world, Dave enjoyed playing with George's train set today

Caption 2

Dave: "How does this work?"
TFL man: "Well sir, the entire network is owned by the state, allowing for enconomies of scale, integrated planning, and any profits are reinvested in the railway."
Dave: "Eh? What did he say, George?"
George: "Erm, something about communism I think."

Toby Latimer · Post by **Toby Latimer** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 8:43 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I see they're trying to dig up some - any - tax dirt on Miliband now.

G article headline - Did Ed Miliband avoid inheritance tax on his parents' home?

I'm not going to link to it. I'm not going to look at it.

Editing to add: aaah - I see some of you are there before me. And the conclusion is pretty much as I thought it would be ... the sound of dregs being scraped at.

Jesus wept. Just shows how the far the Graun has sunk since the days they took the pickle out of IDS.

There is a whole list of other Duncan Smiths gaffes here from the same period. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/200 ... vatives.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Meanwhile, as far as digging dirt up on Ed Miliband - at the time of the MP's expenses scandal a few years ago instigated by The Telegraph, they had a list of MP's who were above reproach they dubbed the 'saints' as opposed to the money grabbers who were 'sinners'

: ScreenShot00212.jpg (45.36 KiB) Viewed 9924 times

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 8:55 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 42338.html

Dud of the week alert.

TV white space doesn't work particularly well and is utterly unsuited to important stuff like flood defences.

Stand by for a huge disappointment and disrupted TV signals.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:09 pm

I am so fed up with Karen Danczuk. She appears to be out to get any publicity she can ... no matter what it is about. She's been on LBC today making claims about Harriet Harman ... and since Harman refuted her story making noises as if she wants to escalate the issue. And then I see on Iain Dale's twitter feed - interspersed amongst her tweets about the spat - a tweet with her advertising the shop she buys her bras from and, of course, a picture of her in those very bras.

No wonder she resigned as a Labour councillor. I can't see how she could do a decent job for anyone while this publicity seeking seems to be her main occupation - and I can't see why any self respecting local party would want the hassle.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:09 pm

Like the cut of this chap's jib on the SNP.

https://profile.theguardian.com/user/id/3276818" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:15 pm

Jaw dropping. Yes, really, even after all the UKIP gaffes and horrors - this has me reeling.

UKIP Enlist Anti Gay Zealot For Coventry South
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/ukip/ukip ... south-4270

Hargreaves formed The Christian Party in 2005 and in 2007 saw the formation of The Scottish Christian Party, set up by Hargreaves to contest the Scottish Parliamentary elections. Hargreaves used the money, generated by the royalties of Sinitta's hit singles to fund the campaign, which had a strong anti gay message, describing homosexuality as "a sin" and calling for a hard-line stance against abortion and euthanasia along with supporting a return of the death penalty and withdrawal from the EU.

The manifesto for the Scottish election contained proposals for the reinstatement of Section 28, banning of gay adoption and the prohibition of "acceptance or approval" of homosexuality in diversity training, outlawing embryo research and introducing mandatory Christian religious education into schools.

His former flatmate and song writing partner was a gay man who died of AIDS. This didn't stop Hargreaves saying in one interview that HIV patients should be refused NHS treatment since their illness was "self-inflicted".

Hargreaves also formed The Welsh Christian Party in 2007 and campaigned to remove the dragon from the Welsh flag, claiming that it was "nothing less than the sign of Satan".

Another of Hargreaves campaigns was denouncing Manchester United as a "sponsor of satanic worship" for featuring a pitchfork-holding devil on its badge. The Reverend announced "We urge Wayne Rooney not to honour the devil by wearing this shirt nor kiss this badge" .

Hargreaves later stood for a number of parliamentary seats for The Christian Party, but failed miserably every time.

And UKIP have deselected another candidate for him ....

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:19 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I am so fed up with Karen Danczuk. She appears to be out to get any publicity she can ... no matter what it is about. She's been on LBC today making claims about Harriet Harman ... and since Harman refuted her story making noises as if she wants to escalate the issue. And then I see on Iain Dale's twitter feed - interspersed amongst her tweets about the spat - a tweet with her advertising the shop she buys her bras from and, of course, a picture of her in those very bras.

No wonder she resigned as a Labour councillor. I can't see how she could do a decent job for anyone while this publicity seeking seems to be her main occupation - and I can't see why any self respecting local party would want the hassle.

The Harman quote is laughable, I am quite amazed Harman hasn't demanded a retraction.

There is no way - no way on this planet - Harman would say that. I wouldn't think it, never mind say it and compared to Harriet Harman I look like Alan Clark.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:24 pm

I wish Harman would turn and say "there is no way I would have said anything like that to any woman in politics, besides, there are far more attractive women involved than Ms Danczuk."

Self promoter, just like her husband! Labours answer to the Hamilton's, minus the brown envelopes.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:25 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Like the cut of this chap's jib on the SNP.

https://profile.theguardian.com/user/id/3276818" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes - very good. I particularly like this - it's such a straightforward and undeniable point.

In response to IainGlasgow
but a Labour government that doesn't have to rely on the support of other parties is no different from a Tory government in this day and age

So if the Tories and Labour are no different, why are the SNP willing to form an alliance with one but not the other?

If they've both got the same policies surely the SNP would be just as willing to try to hold the Tories to account in an alliance with them, as they would with Labour?

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:30 pm

As expected. "Why attacking tax dodgers is bad for Ed Miliband".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general ... nting.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The guy is like a scratched record. Couldn't his mum put him on the naughty step ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:34 pm

UKIP split as opinion divided over doctors, fox hunting and HIV
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk ... er-5148992

What a headline.

I do wonder if Carswell is going to be the only one who gets elected come May. The rest of them are doing a good job of digging large holes for themselves.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:40 pm

Carswell must have had moments when he has wondered what he let himself in for?

I probably disagree with basically everything he stands for, but he is a serious politician who finds himself surrounded by clowns. Farage, the egotist included.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:42 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:And UKIP have deselected another candidate for him ....

The other candidate's backstory must be a corker!

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Thu 12 Feb, 2015 9:42 pm

GetYou wrote:Ooh Jaffa Cakes, that's a nice welcome, thanks everyone.

I've been off GU for a week and I'm certainly not missing the random coloured rectangles or the troll-infested comments. This place has an alltogether warmer ambience.

It's fair to say the reaction to IDS' latest masterpiece from the handful of people I've talked about it today in the office was one of utter disbelief.

Hi and welcome GetYou.

I, too, have been off the G - I'm nearly at the end of week 2 without a backward glance. However, I do have a text file containing all of the links FTNers posted here ...... just in case my willpower fails. A combination of the new crappy format over there and the last snide utterances of MR Andrew Sparrow did it for me.

Look forward to reading your political tasties in due course.