Tuesday 17th February 2015

Post by **refitman** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 7:18 am

Morning all. Conservatives and Labour tied on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 16th February -

Con 32%, (nc)
Lab 32%, (-3)
LD 6%, (-1)
UKIP 16%, (+1)
GRN 8%; (+1)

APP -21 (nc)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 8:27 am

Good-morning.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 8:34 am

Nadine Dorries denied that any politician had said that people use foodbanks because they're free food, on Today. I have sent her a link to Huff Po: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07 ... 38747.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 8:42 am

Morning all - or morning few.

Former Scots Tory leader Annabel Goldie: Alex Salmond was happy to work with Tories but SNP U-turn reeks of posturing and hypocrisy
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... el-5175847
FORMER Tory leader Annabel Goldie has accused the SNP of hypocrisy after explaining how she worked side by side with them at Holyrood.

In an interview with the Daily Record, Goldie revealed the close relationship she enjoyed with former first minister Alex Salmond during his spell at the head of a minority government between 2007 and 2011.

The nationalists have ruled out working with the Tories at Westminster after May’s general election in a bid to convince former Labour supporters to vote for them...

Despite that close relationship, the SNP slammed Scottish Labour for joining the Tories in the referendum No campaign.

Salmond and his successor as first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, repeatedly accused the party of “getting into bed with the Tories”.

Goldie said: “It reeks of posturing and it is, frankly, indicative of hypocrisy. Because what suited him in 2007 and 2008 and in the ensuing years of minority government is the very thing now that he says he’ll have no truck with.”

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 8:44 am

Sophy Ridge ‏@SophyRidgeSky 3h3 hours ago
Morning. Cameron announcing today that under a Tory gvt, 18-21yr olds unemployed for 6 mths won't get benefits unless they do community work

Sophy Ridge ‏@SophyRidgeSky 3h3 hours ago
Remember the Cameron of 2010 election who talked Big Society & hugged huskies? In 2015 it's very different: the economy & welfare at centre

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 8:48 am

Government rejects focus on tackling inequality in Sustainable Development Goals
12 February 2015

Joan Walley MP, chair of the Committee, said:
“It is vital that we get the right Sustainable Development Goals, being negotiated at the UN at the end of this year. Not only will they shape the aid programmes for developing countries up to 2030, but for the first time the UN goals will bind the UK and other developed countries too. It will be important that the broad range of issues already identified by the UN’s preparatory work is fully reflected in the final Goals. That means tackling extreme poverty, but it also means explicitly addressing inequality between and within all countries, so it is disappointing that the Government rejects that inequality focus.”

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... published/

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 8:53 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sophy Ridge ‏@SophyRidgeSky 3h3 hours ago
Morning. Cameron announcing today that under a Tory gvt, 18-21yr olds unemployed for 6 mths won't get benefits unless they do community work

Sophy Ridge ‏@SophyRidgeSky 3h3 hours ago
Remember the Cameron of 2010 election who talked Big Society & hugged huskies? In 2015 it's very different: the economy & welfare at centre

Am I wrong thinking Labour's compulsory jobs guarantee is a better deal?

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1112188 ... compulsory

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 8:55 am

Morning all.

First item after the Today news at 8am (which included a reference to "council run schools" (sic)) was about Greece.

So how did Humphreys start?

"When the last government was thrown out of office they left a note saying 'I'm afraid there's no money left'"

WTF?

Subliminal message - yes, back then we were just like Greece...never mind the fact that he got the wording wrong.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 8:57 am

RR2- I'd like your opinion (& anyone else's too) on the IPPR report below:

Feed-in frenzy: How a wind farm subsidy loophole is short-changing billpayers and damaging Britain's clean energy market
ENERGY & CLIMATE CHANGE
AUTHORS: Joss Garman, Charles Ogilvie
Published Tue 10 Feb 2015

http://www.ippr.org/publications/feed-in-frenzy

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 8:58 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

First item after the Today news at 8am (which included a reference to "council run schools" (sic)) was about Greece.

So how did Humphreys start?

"When the last government was thrown out of office they left a note saying 'I'm afraid there's no money left'"

WTF?

Subliminal message - yes, back then we were just like Greece...never mind the fact that he got the wording wrong.

Humphrys is a partisan twat.

Surprisingly balanced talk on the Hunting ban. Having it repeated that the Conservatives have had nearly 5 years to put forward changes, repealing or introduction of new legislation was a good point.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:00 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

First item after the Today news at 8am (which included a reference to "council run schools" (sic)) was about Greece.

So how did Humphreys start?

"When the last government was thrown out of office they left a note saying 'I'm afraid there's no money left'"

WTF?

Subliminal message - yes, back then we were just like Greece...never mind the fact that he got the wording wrong.

Subliminal message? Nah, a stupid, worn out joke told by well-fed reporters & politicians with nothing better to say.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:05 am

StephenDolan wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

First item after the Today news at 8am (which included a reference to "council run schools" (sic)) was about Greece.

So how did Humphreys start?

"When the last government was thrown out of office they left a note saying 'I'm afraid there's no money left'"

WTF?

Subliminal message - yes, back then we were just like Greece...never mind the fact that he got the wording wrong.
Humphrys is a partisan twat.

Surprisingly balanced talk on the Hunting ban. Having it repeated that the Conservatives have had nearly 5 years to put forward changes, repealing or introduction of new legislation was a good point.

Alun Michael was a good spokesperson for retaining the ban - very clear it was a ban on cruelty to animals and not on an activity re riding for pleasure which continues. I get so fed up of the Barney White-Spunners of this world insisting the hunting ban was only brought in because people didn't like the toffs who took part ... what a poor argument. And are they calling themselves toffs?

But it is scary how the EVEL and further devolution for Scotland and Wales is being hijacked by the hunting / blood sports lobby. If this Act is included in the devolved powers there is a very real risk it could be reintroduced in Wales - Plaid and the Lib Dems are likely to join forces with Conservatives - and UKIP of course - should Labour not have a decent majority in the Assembly.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:11 am

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sophy Ridge ‏@SophyRidgeSky 3h3 hours ago
Morning. Cameron announcing today that under a Tory gvt, 18-21yr olds unemployed for 6 mths won't get benefits unless they do community work

Sophy Ridge ‏@SophyRidgeSky 3h3 hours ago
Remember the Cameron of 2010 election who talked Big Society & hugged huskies? In 2015 it's very different: the economy & welfare at centre
Am I wrong thinking Labour's compulsory jobs guarantee is a better deal?

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1112188 ... compulsory

Well it's a job - with wages - and it's after a year of being unemployed. I think that's quite a bit different and better. Plus - I worry about how much 'community' work can continue to take the place of paid jobs ... we've already got hundreds of thousands of free workfare labour being provided to businesses - to the extent that some poor people are being forced to go back to businesses to do the same job they were once employed to carry out as free labour now ... that's slave labour in my book.

Nicky · Post by **Nicky** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:16 am

citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

First item after the Today news at 8am (which included a reference to "council run schools" (sic)) was about Greece.

So how did Humphreys start?

"When the last government was thrown out of office they left a note saying 'I'm afraid there's no money left'"

WTF?

Subliminal message - yes, back then we were just like Greece...never mind the fact that he got the wording wrong.
Subliminal message? Nah, a stupid, worn out joke told by well-fed reporters & politicians with nothing better to say.

Liam Byrne was an idiot for leaving the note - although he was under the impression that departing Treasury Secretaries left a jokey note to their successor, the contents of which remained private. Reggie Maudling started it off in the 60s. He hadn't reckoned on David Laws dishonestly using the note to smear Labour.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:19 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Am I wrong thinking Labour's compulsory jobs guarantee is a better deal?

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1112188 ... compulsory
Well it's a job - with wages - and it's after a year of being unemployed. I think that's quite a bit different and better. Plus - I worry about how much 'community' work can continue to take the place of paid jobs ... we've already got hundreds of thousands of free workfare labour being provided to businesses - to the extent that some poor people are being forced to go back to businesses to do the same job they were once employed to carry out as free labour now ... that's slave labour in my book.

I wholeheartedly agree. I need another cup of tea.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:28 am

John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 4m4 minutes ago
Mail story contradicts itself: "Balls pays window cleaner by cheque & receives handwritten invoices every few months" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... laims.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:34 am

Nicky wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

First item after the Today news at 8am (which included a reference to "council run schools" (sic)) was about Greece.

So how did Humphreys start?

"When the last government was thrown out of office they left a note saying 'I'm afraid there's no money left'"

WTF?

Subliminal message - yes, back then we were just like Greece...never mind the fact that he got the wording wrong.
Subliminal message? Nah, a stupid, worn out joke told by well-fed reporters & politicians with nothing better to say.
Liam Byrne was an idiot for leaving the note - although he was under the impression that departing Treasury Secretaries left a jokey note to their successor, the contents of which remained private. Reggie Maudling started it off in the 60s. He hadn't reckoned on expenses cheat David Laws dishonestly using the note to smear Labour.

Fixed that for you Nicky.

CPI at 0.3%.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:36 am

: Keep The Ban.jpg (32.63 KiB) Viewed 17566 times

Alex Cunningham ‏@ACunninghamMP 7m7 minutes ago
Yes I do .........
#keeptheban

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:37 am

Chris Bryant ‏@ChrisBryantMP 5m5 minutes ago
Before anyone gets too excited about ‘staunchly Labour’ Dec, he voted Tory in 2010

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:49 am

The Choice: Long-Term Growth
The Labour future / The Tory threat

http://www.labouremail.org.uk/files/upl ... a10216.pdf

Labour's yourbritain website as well as this one below

http://www.labourbisteam.org.uk/policy-review-documents

are good places to find policy documents.

Yes, I've had difficulty navigating the yourbritain website in the past. It's much better. Or maybe I've become better at it with increased use. I've put a lot of time into researching Labour policies. The Labour party has put a lot of time & collaborative effort into their policy documents & papers. Incorporating everyone's ideas into policy takes work. I can appreciate Rednorth's post yesterday regarding the seemingly bits & pieces of information coming from Labour; incoherent. I can understand Hunty finally snarling at someone wanting specific Labour party data handed to them. I don't agree with their conclusion & their response in those specific instances. I completely understand the frustration.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 9:55 am

citizenJA wrote:The Choice: Long-Term Growth
The Labour future / The Tory threat

http://www.labouremail.org.uk/files/upl ... a10216.pdf

Labour's yourbritain website as well as this one below

http://www.labourbisteam.org.uk/policy-review-documents

are good places to find policy documents.

Yes, I've had difficulty navigating the yourbritain website in the past. It's much better. Or maybe I've become better at it with increased use. I've put a lot of time into researching Labour policies. The Labour party has put a lot of time & collaborative effort into their policy documents & papers. Incorporating everyone's ideas into policy takes work. I can appreciate Rednorth's post yesterday regarding the seemingly bits & pieces of information coming from Labour; incoherent. I can understand Hunty finally snarling at someone wanting specific Labour party data handed to them. I don't agree with their conclusion & their response in those specific instances. I completely understand the frustration.

I put them here, in Features & Analysis, all the policies are in the pre-manifesto document "Changing Britain Together"
http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?p=19409#p19409" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a direct link to the document
http://b.3cdn.net/labouruk/414e1ab67632 ... 6bflfq.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:00 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Chris Bryant ‏@ChrisBryantMP 5m5 minutes ago
Before anyone gets too excited about ‘staunchly Labour’ Dec, he voted Tory in 2010

I had to run that through a search engine before I got a specific answer. Two former Labour supporters declare Ed Miliband 'not up to the job'? That's all they got? Ant and Dec, Britain's Got Talent presenters? Do they understand I'm glad the next PM of this country isn't a performer? I didn't waste time reading the article. Perhaps this was their conclusion as well & they won't vote Tory some more. Whatever.

During the rain & sunshine yesterday, I had the pleasure of running into the most spectacular rainbows I've ever seen. Stoke in a oner for rainbows. Lots of beauty created in this area.

Except that god damn power tool operating now over an hour.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:01 am

Tom Blenkinsop retweeted
ONS ‏@ONS Feb 13
2.1% fall in construction output in Q4, bigger than -1.8% estimated in preliminary #GDP http://ow.ly/J0M3V" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tom Blenkinsop retweeted
ONS ‏@ONS 23m23 minutes ago
9.5% rise in house prices paid by #firsttimebuyers http://ow.ly/JaTGC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #inflation

Tom Blenkinsop retweeted
ONS ‏@ONS 20m20 minutes ago
50% annual fall in crude oil #prices in January, the biggest on record http://ow.ly/JaUhH

None of those trends look healthy to me. Surely construction output should be growing more strongly now? So Help To Buy and the other house buying subsidies put out by George Osborne haven't encouraged house prices to rise ..... really? And what the hell is going to happen when the oil prices start rising again ... we're all going to get a nasty shock ... or, if they don't, look out deflation and that's another nasty prospect.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:10 am

Stephen Timms retweeted
Tony Wilson ‏@tonywilsonCESI 2h2 hours ago
Govt pilot of 'day one' youth workfare in 2012 found it cut benefit numbers but didn't increase jobs: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... t-analysis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Stephen Timms retweeted
Tony Wilson ‏@tonywilsonCESI 2h2 hours ago
Big impacts from workfare always on benefit numbers not jobs: discouraging claims, sanctions, hassle. And usually costs more than it saves.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:32 am

Madeleine Moon ‏@MadeleineMoon 6m6 minutes ago
How do you define a nasty party? Shoe shopping trips £150,000 4 the rich yet 30hrs community service for young unemployed 4 £60 in benefits.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:33 am

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

#UKIP100days the artist taxi driver

FuriousGeorge · Post by **FuriousGeorge** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:36 am

citizenJA wrote:RR2- I'd like your opinion (& anyone else's too) on the IPPR report below:

Feed-in frenzy: How a wind farm subsidy loophole is short-changing billpayers and damaging Britain's clean energy market
ENERGY & CLIMATE CHANGE
AUTHORS: Joss Garman, Charles Ogilvie
Published Tue 10 Feb 2015

http://www.ippr.org/publications/feed-in-frenzy

Hi all,

Doing some (very basic and estimated maths), using this years 2015 FiT rates and the same 25% capacity factor etc I make it:

500kw turbine - 1.095Mwh per year = £148k income from FiT
900kW turbine - 1.97Mwh - £145k income from FiT

This is just income from FiT, doesn't include money from selling to grid etc.

Over a 20 year lifespan you would make £60k more from derating the turbine, using this years rates.

Using the highest FiT rate discrepancy (2010-12) the results are:

500kw turbine - 1.095Mwh per year = £242k income from FiT
900kW turbine - 1.97Mwh - £220k income from FiT

So 22k a year difference (£440k) in FiT, using the most generous rates.

However lets assume the power is all sold to the grid under a PPA at 3p/kwh.

500kW turbine - £32,850 a year
900kW turbine - £59,150 a year.

So a £26k difference per year. 20 year lifespan = £526k income difference between turbines. Plus a 900Kw turbine costs a lot more than a 500kW one, so buying one to de-rate seems stupid.

So whilst there may be one or two people doing this, I doubt its widespread as financially it doesn't seem to add up.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:38 am

anastomosis 21m ago
Last week: Reefer Madness.
This week: Benefit Scroungers.
Next week: Illegal Immigrants.
Repeat with crossed fingers until May.

From BTL on http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ys-cameron

Horribly true eh.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:41 am

FuriousGeorge wrote:
citizenJA wrote:RR2- I'd like your opinion (& anyone else's too) on the IPPR report below:

Feed-in frenzy: How a wind farm subsidy loophole is short-changing billpayers and damaging Britain's clean energy market
ENERGY & CLIMATE CHANGE
AUTHORS: Joss Garman, Charles Ogilvie
Published Tue 10 Feb 2015

http://www.ippr.org/publications/feed-in-frenzy
Hi all,

Doing some (very basic and estimated maths), using this years 2015 FiT rates and the same 25% capacity factor etc I make it:

500kw turbine - 1.095Mwh per year = £148k income from FiT
900kW turbine - 1.97Mwh - £145k income from FiT

This is just income from FiT, doesn't include money from selling to grid etc.

Over a 20 year lifespan you would make £60k more from derating the turbine, using this years rates.

Using the highest FiT rate discrepancy (2010-12) the results are:

500kw turbine - 1.095Mwh per year = £242k income from FiT
900kW turbine - 1.97Mwh - £220k income from FiT

So 22k a year difference (£440k) in FiT, using the most generous rates.

However lets assume the power is all sold to the grid under a PPA at 3p/kwh.

500kW turbine - £32,850 a year
900kW turbine - £59,150 a year.

So a £26k difference per year. 20 year lifespan = £526k income difference between turbines. Plus a 900Kw turbine costs a lot more than a 500kW one, so buying one to de-rate seems stupid.

So whilst there may be one or two people doing this, I doubt its widespread as financially it doesn't seem to add up.

I'm about to go out so will take a look at this when I'm back in. Looks like it requires maths - so best I am prepared!

(I started this with 'I am about to go out furious' and then realised how that looked so scrapped it. But this is for you - furious.)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:44 am

@AngryAsWell

Oh, thank you! Thank you, my friend. We've our documents in order.
Isn't socialism great? I mean this sincerely. Cooperation, each having strengths augmented by others with different kinds of skill or ability.

CitizenPJ watched a documentary called Mr. Attlee last night. I was colour-coding my UK Parliamentary e-mails according to their topic. It's not as exciting as it sounds, I assure you. Anyway, my partner talked about loans from the US made to Britain in 1947 around that time. One of the conditions of this loan was allowing exchange from pounds to dollars. Apparently, there was a flight of pounds sterling to US greenbacks for investment purposes. Damn. As far as I can make out, the US allowed the NHS to continue, in part, due to this capital flight, among other concessions too, I'm sure. Whew....can you imagine the negotiation table? We both got quiet. The skill that must have been present. Forward-looking, working class, social democratic government post WW2 facing well-fed Yankees so pleased with themselves.

'oh, well, <heavy sigh>, if the US can't see its way clear helping out an ally after defending democracy & your capitalism, I suppose other comrades may be found...'

Jesus - knowing now what I do about the US as well as our country, it's amazing the NHS is standing at all.

Interesting conversation I had yesterday with the young man originally from another country. He & I both have relatives living in the US. After chatting about organic produce a while, the conversation turned to healthcare systems. He was mortified to learn it's against the law to not have healthcare insurance in the US. 'So am I, my friend,' I told him. It has been unprecedented to require US citizens, upon conception, to purchase a private product on pain of penalty. But there we are. It is. It costs my healthy niece $400 per month to have an insurance card. If that were all she had to pay I may not be so angry. But it's not. It's a real problem if one actually falls ill. Co-pays, illnesses not covered, all pharmacy charges separate, maximum allowed payouts per year. That's not a comprehensive list.

Charming young man, he asked with genuine concern, 'The US is a wealthy nation...with such resources & well-educated people, couldn't something better be arranged?' 'I should've thought so too, my friend,' I said.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:51 am

FuriousGeorge wrote:
citizenJA wrote:RR2- I'd like your opinion (& anyone else's too) on the IPPR report below:

Feed-in frenzy: How a wind farm subsidy loophole is short-changing billpayers and damaging Britain's clean energy market
ENERGY & CLIMATE CHANGE
AUTHORS: Joss Garman, Charles Ogilvie
Published Tue 10 Feb 2015

http://www.ippr.org/publications/feed-in-frenzy
Hi all,

Doing some (very basic and estimated maths), using this years 2015 FiT rates and the same 25% capacity factor etc I make it:

500kw turbine - 1.095Mwh per year = £148k income from FiT
900kW turbine - 1.97Mwh - £145k income from FiT

This is just income from FiT, doesn't include money from selling to grid etc.

Over a 20 year lifespan you would make £60k more from derating the turbine, using this years rates.

Using the highest FiT rate discrepancy (2010-12) the results are:

500kw turbine - 1.095Mwh per year = £242k income from FiT
900kW turbine - 1.97Mwh - £220k income from FiT

So 22k a year difference (£440k) in FiT, using the most generous rates.

However lets assume the power is all sold to the grid under a PPA at 3p/kwh.

500kW turbine - £32,850 a year
900kW turbine - £59,150 a year.

So a £26k difference per year. 20 year lifespan = £526k income difference between turbines. Plus a 900Kw turbine costs a lot more than a 500kW one, so buying one to de-rate seems stupid.

So whilst there may be one or two people doing this, I doubt its widespread as financially it doesn't seem to add up.

Hang on, hang on! I've got it! Let's deflate the property balloon & let's all get a wind turbine instead!

I'm rather serious but I admit I've only read this wonderful post above three times & I've done only cursory follow up research.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:59 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
anastomosis 21m ago
Last week: Reefer Madness.
This week: Benefit Scroungers.
Next week: Illegal Immigrants.
Repeat with crossed fingers until May.
From BTL on http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ys-cameron

Horribly true eh.

2010: Big Society
2010-15: Big Society ain't working.
2015: Big Stick

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 10:59 am

Oh, damn it. In nutshell, it's all about size, not performance.
Well, close that loophole. No one can justly argue for its remaining lawful & it's letting all the warm air escape.
Financial Times link below, sorry for the paywall.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/97d92ac2-b13c ... z3RzySKxWi

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:03 am

Final word on that ICM survey - it claimed that Tories were doing much better with women (6 points ahead!) than men.

Given this is totally out of line with almost all other polling, I think we can safely discount this one.......

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:09 am

The Ant & Dec thing. I read the article yesterday. They also said the coalition is crap.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:10 am

So. Now we know.

Not only is Cameron's Britannia waiving the rules, Britons will ever be slaves.

The DWP's Day One Support Trailblazer (as administered by Maximus) piloted in London is to be rolled out nationwide. I told you so.
From the first day of a JSA claim, 18-24 year-olds have been sent to work for 30h/week (mainly in nursing homes) to earn their benefits.
The "support" bit is 10 hours of supervised (allegedly) jobsearch help from Maximus.
There are about 190,000 "NEETs" that we know about; (there may be more who have chosen not to claim any benefits despite having no work, training, apprenticeship, or further education) these young people are the target. They will, if Cameron gets his way, be required to work under this scheme for 30 Hours a week for the wages equivalent of £1.43/hour. Slave labour.

We have Osborne poncing about in Europe, no doubt lecturing the Greeks on what they should be doing while his own policies collapse; we have OGRFG trotting about giving various speeches to his donor's workers but failing as ever to open himself to question; we have Shapps accusing Balls of never having run a business while Shapps' experience in the field is dubious at best and fraudulent at worst; and after a week in which not one Tory took responsibility for the HMRC while several Tories and senior civil servants lied blatantly about what was known in 2011. we have a nice new squirrel to enjoy.

If you are 18-24, obese, claiming benefit, you are that squirrel. Look at you! It's all your fault!

Young? Work for peanuts.
If you don't, you won't get any help in the 10 hours a week you've got to find a real job.

Fat? Go on a diet.
Carol Black (author of the report which led to the DWPs Health and Work Service) will be after you if you don't.

Claiming benefit? How dare you.
You will stop. We'll make you.Sooner or later, we'll find a way to stop your benefits.

In the process, all these youngsters (and all the other people working for free) replace paid workers. Who then have to.......work for free.

Slaves. Millions of them.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:18 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tom Blenkinsop retweeted
ONS ‏@ONS Feb 13
2.1% fall in construction output in Q4, bigger than -1.8% estimated in preliminary #GDP http://ow.ly/J0M3V" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tom Blenkinsop retweeted
ONS ‏@ONS 23m23 minutes ago
9.5% rise in house prices paid by #firsttimebuyers http://ow.ly/JaTGC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #inflation

Tom Blenkinsop retweeted
ONS ‏@ONS 20m20 minutes ago
50% annual fall in crude oil #prices in January, the biggest on record http://ow.ly/JaUhH
None of those trends look healthy to me. Surely construction output should be growing more strongly now? So Help To Buy and the other house buying subsidies put out by George Osborne haven't encouraged house prices to rise ..... really? And what the hell is going to happen when the oil prices start rising again ... we're all going to get a nasty shock ... or, if they don't, look out deflation and that's another nasty prospect.

Something else this reminds me of - I'd posted the latest government tax receipts for December 2014. Over 80% of government tax intake is coming from VAT & PAYE not corporation tax or land/shares/property taxes.

Get this though

December 2014 VAT receipts decreased by £0.1 billion, or 0.9%, to £10.5 billion from December 2013

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/psa/publi ... -borrowing

That's the Christmas month. VAT receipts down in December from last year? Okay, it's less than a percentage from the previous year. But VAT receipts were only £10.4 for November 2014.

If I'm reading this wrong, please don't hesitate to correct or question me.
The next ONS Public Sector Finances release is in three days 20 Feb 2015.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/psa/publi ... index.html

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:26 am

From Ephemerid's excellent, alarming post:

From the first day of a JSA claim, 18-24 year-olds have been sent to work for 30h/week (mainly in nursing homes) to earn their benefits.

This is unacceptable. Absolutely unacceptable. Contrary to popular belief, care work requires great skill - seriously, it's a calling, not something anyone can be thrown in to do. Oh my god it's exploiting young people & grossly insulting at least, dangerous more likely for the people requiring care.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:27 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Final word on that ICM survey - it claimed that Tories were doing much better with women (6 points ahead!) than men.

Given this is totally out of line with almost all other polling, I think we can safely discount this one.......

I saw that incongruity & spent the rest of my day smiling, knowing the poll was junk.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:29 am

Welcome, FuriousGeorge!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:33 am

Tom Blenkinsop retweeted
ONS ‏@ONS 20m20 minutes ago
50% annual fall in crude oil #prices in January, the biggest on record

Is this still due to Saudi Arabia wanting to take out US shale gas extraction enterprise? I'll send another thank you note but really, we've got to stop the fossil fuel binge. Use fossil fuels to manufacture our renewable energy infrastructure.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 11:47 am

citizenJA wrote: The next ONS Public Sector Finances release is in three days 20 Feb 2015.

That's the really important one since it'll have income tax receipts from self-assessment and will indicate whether the deficit will be lower than last year or not.

I would hazard a guess that if receipts are disappointing then they'll be looking for a quick fire sale of something prior to April 5th.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:17 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Final word on that ICM survey - it claimed that Tories were doing much better with women (6 points ahead!) than men.

Given this is totally out of line with almost all other polling, I think we can safely discount this one.......

Sorry, I know you said last word but if I could beg your patience for a moment longer...

The tables show the 2010 unweighted VI figures as Con 234 to Lab 226 & the weighted Con 214 to Lab 180

Weighting is something that goes over my head & tables like those ICM use boggle my mind but seeing figures like that doesn't look right to me - it looks like the Cons have not been weighted as harshly as Lab.

Is that right or do I have the wrong end of the stick ?

Tables not published on ICM website but Tom Clark tweeted them:

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WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:23 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Tom Blenkinsop retweeted
ONS ‏@ONS 20m20 minutes ago
50% annual fall in crude oil #prices in January, the biggest on record
Is this still due to Saudi Arabia wanting to take out US shale gas extraction enterprise? I'll send another thank you note but really, we've got to stop the fossil fuel binge. Use fossil fuels to manufacture our renewable energy infrastructure.

Yes, JA - we need to use current fossil fuel production and that from the next couple of decades to transition to an economy that is not reliant on them. However, there seems to be very little political will, globally, to do this.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:34 pm

Good Morning from a "lurker" of some duration who has finally decided to raise his head above the parapet.
Always interesting reading the contributions from people who obviously have a much better in depth knowledge of important issues such as education and the NHS from which I have learned a lot.
Why have I suddenly decided to contribute myself?
Today we have had yet another sad example of our cowed and partial political commentator class feeding the narrative laid down to them by the press owners.Cameron comes out of the woodwork after a week of him and Osborne acting invisible.At Q&A after his speech our esteemed press representatives have the chance to question him on the issues of the last week and what do we get........Ed Balls receipts!!! Not a word on HSBC/Green.
The standard of political reporting in this country has never been lower particularly from our national press.Is it because they live in the same Westminster bubble as our politicians or are they so frightened for their jobs and life style they swallow any principles they once had.
Where are the impartial journalists of the past who told it as it is or was?
For the record I do enjoy reading those who make it clear where their political loyalties lie but are prepared to give alternative views.Here I am thinking of Hardman and Oborne rather than Robinson, Oakeshott or Ganesh who masquerade as impartial but rarely are.
Apologies for the length of the missive and will try to be more concise in future however this is something that has been gnawing at me for some time.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:38 pm

Welcome FuriousGeorge & ScarletGas & your contributions can be as short or as lengthy as you wish - as you can see, some are more concise than others but all contributions are welcome

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:43 pm

ScarletGas wrote:Good Morning from a "lurker" of some duration who has finally decided to raise his head above the parapet.
Always interesting reading the contributions from people who obviously have a much better in depth knowledge of important issues such as education and the NHS from which I have learned a lot.
Why have I suddenly decided to contribute myself?
Today we have had yet another sad example of our cowed and partial political commentator class feeding the narrative laid down to them by the press owners.Cameron comes out of the woodwork after a week of him and Osborne acting invisible.At Q&A after his speech our esteemed press representatives have the chance to question him on the issues of the last week and what do we get........Ed Balls receipts!!! Not a word on HSBC/Green.
The standard of political reporting in this country has never been lower particularly from our national press.Is it because they live in the same Westminster bubble as our politicians or are they so frightened for their jobs and life style they swallow any principles they once had.
Where are the impartial journalists of the past who told it as it is or was?
For the record I do enjoy reading those who make it clear where their political loyalties lie but are prepared to give alternative views.Here I am thinking of Hardman and Oborne rather than Robinson, Oakeshott or Ganesh who masquerade as impartial but rarely are.
Apologies for the length of the missive and will try to be more concise in future however this is something that has been gnawing at me for some time.

Hi Scarlet!

You'll like this if you don't like Ganesh.

http://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2013/ ... erity.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:43 pm

And hi George!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:46 pm

Did we notice this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-31015807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Headline.

Care spending 'cut by fifth in 10 years'

Story:

Spending on care for people aged 65 and over has fallen by a fifth in England over the last 10 years, an analysis by the BBC shows

Pitiful.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:51 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Did we notice this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-31015807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Headline.

Care spending 'cut by fifth in 10 years'
Story:

Spending on care for people aged 65 and over has fallen by a fifth in England over the last 10 years, an analysis by the BBC shows
Pitiful.

Check out the bar chart. Could a more suitable title have been used perhaps?