Tuesday 17th February 2015

[RogerOThornhill]

Further to my post about about the Leveson-haters I notice that neither present or ex-DT writers Toby Young nor James Delingpole have tweeted yet about Oborne.

Funny that...maybe they're slightly confused...

[LadyCentauria]

A very warm welcome to FuriousGeorge and ScarletGas. Hope you'll enjoy it here at the Haven. Do explore the facilities here – bar, café, sauna, miles of beautiful countryside to explore, all pets welcomed, watering-trough and hitching post outside for the riders just outside the newly-finished barn and feed-room. I've just made some scrumptious mackeral and chocolate sauce sandwiches so feel free to grab one from the kitchen before they're all gone

[RogerOThornhill]

From 3 days ago...

Chris CookVerified account
‏@xtophercook
I thought the Telegraph was a newspaper. Is that consistent with "a company-wide commitment to helping brands grow"?

https://twitter.com/xtophercook/status/ ... 1893819394

Newsnight might be worth watching tonight...

[ohsocynical]

If RedNorth's still reading I'd like to say this.

This is how I feel and what pushes me.
I voted Lib Dem in 2010. I am eternally ashamed that I allowed the Conservatives to begin their run of evil, and even more ashamed that the LibDems enabled them. I helped cause the despair and desperation we read about every day. And voting for a minority party isn't going to mend it.

Voting and supporting Labour is the best chance if we're to get those evil bastards out.

That's what it is for me. Plain and simple. Five words. Get the evil bastards out

[ErnstRemarx]

I see ex-Labour supporter Noel Gallagher is quoted today as 'not knowing what Labour stands for anymore'. Yesterday it was staunch Labourites Ant & Dec saying the same thing. Okay, these people aren't brains of Britain but they are examples of what I find over and and over again. Ordinary people, in temperament if not in means, and of modest political commitment (ie: not party men) are simply not enthused or inspired enough to win Labour the next election. To them Labour looks shapeless, nondescript and vacillating.

Why?

Becuase it is.

If level-pegging sounds like a success given we're still not far on from the crisis, remember this is the worst recovery in 300 years, and taking place against against a backdrop of the end of the NHS & Welfare State and a thoroughly discredited capital class. A left of centre party should be waltzing home in such circumstances.

You can't just blame it all on the media, the media has always been hostile to Labour but for the Blair years.

Where the fuck is Cruddas and his policy review? has it been consigned to the dustbin of history?

Those staunch labourites Ant and Dec voted Tory in 2010, and in the same article they said they could not see Miliband as PM, they also rubbished Cameron. Today we have the Church of England, the so called 'Conservative Party at Prayer' openly attacking a Tory PM. Which of those do you think is more significant?

Yesterday you were complaining that all Labour did was announce policies. Those policies are the results of the policy review. Two documents have been published on the review, One Nation Economy and One Nation Society. They're online, look them up. It frankly doesn't take much research

They voted Tory for the one and only time in 2010 after a lifetime of voting Labour and describing themselves as 'staunch Labour'. Allow them one lapse, do, this isn't the Petrograd Soviet. Despite disliking Cameron and not wanting to vote Tory again, they couldn't see what Labour were offering.

I didn't comment on the Church of England. I don't see the point's relevance here. Is it more important than Ant and Dec, frankly I doubt it given the habits of today's digital congregations, but even if it is, so what? it's not going to vote Labour, and that was the point of my post.

To say I complained that all Labour did was announce policies is a silly simplification of my post. I complained they released policies without (seemingly) a coherent overall narrative, and that the presentation of those announcements was piecemeal and amateurish.

My question about the policy review was rhetorical. The review was trumpeted at the time as signaling a new direction for the party in the wake of Blairism. For it to live up to that and impact on the party's election prospects it needed to be consistent, substantial, and profound. It should have been the moment when the party shifted the focus on to its core policies, and announced in suitably grandiose fashion, not a daily dribble of policies to a backdrop of reheated 19th century one-nation Tory slogans.

After a few posts, I see this forum is somewhat tribalist and less interested in discussing Labour's election prospects and how they could be improved so much as a back-slapping echo chamber. By all means carry on. Despite the kind of global capitalist catastrophe that was supposed to usher in an epoch of socialism, the nominally left wing party can't scrape together a decent election poll lead.

After the election, slapping yourself on the back will be all that's left. Sadly, many of us will be picking up bodies as a consequence.

OK then, let's go with the ribalist thing. Yep, there are a fair number of Labour members and supporters on FTN - no doubt about that - and I'm a Labour councillor, that's a fact. But it's a bit unfair to say it's a back slapping clique, unless you can back it up, as it's been critical of Labour as well as the other parties.

The fact remains that the Labour message, however you perceive it, has to go through the filter of the British meeja, and that is more or less the publicity office of the Tory party. I'd love Labour to get a far more positive press, so, what ideas do you have to bring that about? Can you see a situation where, for example, Labour get a positive press response? The HSBC thing is fairly typical: it's hardly about Labour, yet the coverage is about Balls' fucking relationship with his window cleaner. How do you get round that?

The reason Miliband has such a bad public image, and why articles expressing surprise that he's a good speaker and excellent at Q&A with the public are the exception rather than the rule tned to point to the universal monstering that he gets from nearly all the meeja. They tell you that he and Labour are simply shit, and rather than going to find out and refute it as appropriate, too many on the left say that it's because he must be shit, and on what basis? Why, the meeja reports, the same meeja who can hardly be arsed to report what Labour are proposing, unless it's to use it as the basis of yet another article as to why Miliband and Labour are so woefully shit.

That's one reason I gave up reading and buying the Graun.

Tell me how you think Labour can rectify this situation, and how they can get positive coverage and I'm all ears.

[pk1]

Top Labour official leaves for UKIP, according to the bottom right front page of tomorrow's Telegraph. So Oborne was right after all !

Oborne's departure makes the front right column of tomorrow's Graun.

[giselle97]

I am finding it very hard to know exactly what is meant by Labour swimming in bits and pieces of policies.

There was impatience last year. Ed said, he wasn't going to promise anything until it was costed it and they knew it worked.
We were impatient, but could see the sense of waiting until they began laying out policies.

And now here we are with 73? days to go.
From the top of my head.
Bedroom tax, zero hours, minimum wage, bankers, tax avoidance, schools, NHS, apprenticeships. Guaranteed jobs for youngsters. Keeping the fox hunting ban.

Plus how he's out-maneuvered Cameron in the Commons. It was very skilled statesmanship.

I'm not being snippy but what exactly do people want?
Anyone following the financial shenanigans and overspends of the Tories must know it'll be impossible for Ed to wave a magic wand and make it all better overnight?

We've seen what silver tongued but empty speeches have spawned but there's no chance of an orator like Nye Bevan riding in to save the day. It doesn't make the Labour Party any less dedicated or Ed less effective though.

I'm gagging for efficient, firm, fair, even dull, yes dull governance. I just want the job done properly.
We're owed respite from fear and anxiety. Dull but effective will definitely work for me.

To add. And some of the problems Ed is having to tackle are cropping up weekly. Did we foresee the HSBC scandal at Christmas?

And one final thing I've learned. It will never return to how it used to be. You can never go back. The world has moved on.

Well said OhSo. Cameron has come out with sentences just in the last few weeks which steal Labour positions and there isn't one person in the "news" programmes who says anything about it. A good idea is only a good idea if it comes out of Cameron's thin lipped gob.

When I have an issue with something said or not said or done by Labour, I communicate that issue directly to London or text/e-mail Lisa Forbes, Peterborough's Labour PPC. I know "stuff" gets passed on. They can't do everything without support and funds. I give them both. Perhaps RedNorth could communicate (locally and to HO) as was suggested already, yesterday. It only takes the same amount of time and effort, I suppose, as complaining about the issues on a forum where, as far as I know, only ErnstRemarx is actually a politician.

For instance, I've now suggested a Share link is put on announcements (and sent another donation to election funds).

[Spacedone]

We may have our disagreements, our arguments and occasionally rub each other up the wrong way... but I think there's one thing we can all agree on.

[HindleA]

Latest YouGov poll (16 - 17 Feb):
LAB - 34% (+2)
CON - 33% (+1)
UKIP - 15% (-1)
GRN - 7% (-1)
LDEM - 6% (-)

[TechnicalEphemera]

Right, a brief distraction to look at the world of aviation accidents. If Simon Calder can pontificate on this stuff, so can I.

We have recently had two accidents, Air Asia which was an Airbus lost in cruise, and TransAsia which was an ATR lost on takeoff.

We don't yet know what happened to Air Asia. There is speculation, based on the wreckage that it crashed in a stalled configuration with relatively little forward speed and a relatively slow (but still fatal) vertical speed. There is speculation this might be a case like Air France 447 where the crew flew a perfectly good aircraft into the ground because they couldn't recognise and recover from a stall. There is no evidence this is the case.

In the case of TransAsia it appears that they suffered an issue with one engine feathering but then during takeoff for some reason they shut down the other engine. There is no view as to why this happened.

However there seems to be a consensus forming that the industry has an issue it isn't quite ready for. Back in the day flying was dangerous, lots of people were killed (but as nobody flew numbers were small). As technology improved and the realities of jet travel were understood safety improved, very few people were killed; which was fortunate because if things had gone on like the 50s at current traffic levels one a week would be lost at Heathrow.

Then in the late 80s Airbus introduced automation, and concepts that in certain modes the aircraft overrules the pilots. Boeing also introduced automation but there the pilot tends to be higher up the decision chain (which can result in a good or a bad outcome). After a blip as pilots got used to the new thinking, accident rates continued to drop. This led to increased emphasis on using automation (because most crashes seemed to be pilot error), which occasionally went too far, hence AA and their Children of the Magenta Line video.

However now more pilots are trained to use the automation, training and budgets are cut and pilots get less time hand flying (because they are discouraged and possibly forbidden from doing so). But the problem with automation is that it is not comprehensive and when stuff happens that the computer doesn't understand it quits and hands the aircraft unceremoniously back to the pilot - the electronic equivalent of the Gallic shrug. So now our pilot, who only ever flies on automatics, has a plane with possibly degraded sensors or an unusual problem and he/she has to figure it out and fly a manual recovery in a very short space of time. Of course many of them will have no experience to fall back on and will get it wrong. In effect the critical redundant system (the pilot) is not trained for the role of critical redundant system, because Airlines don't see the benefit of doing so. Instead they train to do routine automated flying.

One wonders if it is time for red tape to force the airlines to adapt training, or if instead what will happen is industry will accept a few crashes each year to keep costs down. As always PPRune has far more knowledgable people thinking this through.

[HindleA]

I belong to the tribe that wants this shower of ### ts out of office.

[ohsocynical]

[quote="Spacedone"]We may have our disagreements, our arguments and occasionally rub each other up the wrong way... but I think there's one thing we can all agree on.


Oh thanks. That reminded me. I've a bar of Aldi's milk chocolate secreted in my bedside cabinet...

[pk1]

I belong to the tribe that wants this shower of ### ts out of office.

Me too and I make no apology for it.

Sadly though my vote will be wasted because the safe seat in which I live has been Tory since its creation

[Spacedone]

We may have our disagreements, our arguments and occasionally rub each other up the wrong way... but I think there's one thing we can all agree on.


Oh thanks. That reminded me. I've a bar of Aldi's milk chocolate secreted in my bedside cabinet...

Happy to be of service

[giselle97]

I read the Oborne article and, other than the controversy, I'm sitting here nearly vomiting at the "other planet" attitude of his "class". How bloody patronising. Sorry.

Well, yeah, Giselle, I agree, for goodness' sake, the man is a Tory. He's probably not given that up for sure. It probably broke his heart having to concede Ed Miliband is a fine statesman in one of his last articles - apologies for not having the link at hand - really, it was a fine article about Miliband but I bet he wished he could find his equal within the Tory ranks. He can't.

I received your information about a confirmation e-mail for the meeting.

xx
JA

P.S. Is that Labour Press link a help at all?

https://www.tumblr.com/register/follow/labourpress" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Heh JA! I'll have a look at Tumblr .... but it looks like it's for info to me and I already get most of the announcements via-mail. What I was trying to find, in amongst all of the clutter below those announcements was a simple thing like this which would enable me to pass the announcement on easily to Twitter, Facebook, e-mail, etc., and that doesn't seem to be part of the template - which means the "on-line" presence needs jiggling with! Thanks, anyway.

2015-02-17_224410.jpg (21.04 KiB) Viewed 13321 times

[ohsocynical]

I belong to the tribe that wants this shower of ### ts out of office.

Me too and I make no apology for it.

Sadly though my vote will be wasted because the safe seat in which I live has been Tory since its creation

And mine. LibDems were second to the Tories in 2010. This year I fear UKIP might take second. They even had a BNP candidate. Disgraceful. I'll be glad to move.

[AngryAsWell]

I belong to the tribe that wants this shower of ### ts out of office.

Me too and I make no apology for it.

Sadly though my vote will be wasted because the safe seat in which I live has been Tory since its creation

Michael Portillo once said something like that Landslide I tell you ! Landslide !

[ohsocynical]

I read the Oborne article and, other than the controversy, I'm sitting here nearly vomiting at the "other planet" attitude of his "class". How bloody patronising. Sorry.

Well, yeah, Giselle, I agree, for goodness' sake, the man is a Tory. He's probably not given that up for sure. It probably broke his heart having to concede Ed Miliband is a fine statesman in one of his last articles - apologies for not having the link at hand - really, it was a fine article about Miliband but I bet he wished he could find his equal within the Tory ranks. He can't.

I received your information about a confirmation e-mail for the meeting.

xx
JA

P.S. Is that Labour Press link a help at all?

https://www.tumblr.com/register/follow/labourpress" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Heh JA! I'll have a look at Tumblr .... but it looks like it's for info to me and I already get most of the announcements via-mail. What I was trying to find, in amongst all of the clutter below those announcements was a simple thing like this which would enable me to pass the announcement on easily to Twitter, Facebook, e-mail, etc., and that doesn't seem to be part of the template - which means the "on-line" presence needs jiggling with! Thanks, anyway.

2015-02-17_224410.jpg

I checked, you can't Twitter direct. You have to cut and paste the headline and address.

[mbc1955]

Everybody has been very polite and rational and reasonable with you, RedNorth, enough so that I think I can go a step further and ask you what is it that you want? In the real world, that is, the world of now, of a General Election in 78 days time.

You castigate the Labour Party for not being what you want it to be, though you don't get down to defining what you want Labour to be. You've every right to be disappointed if they don't meet your vision of the ideal political party to replace the Coalition Government under which we've suffered for nearly five years. You're entitled to vote for who you choose: who will you vote for, who comes closest to suiting your ideals?

I'm not a natural Labour voter, never have been. But I'm voting for them this year. And I'm voting in a rock solid Labour ward where I'd have every right and excuse to vote Green (if I get a Green candidate, and it'll be the first time ever if I get that option). I'm voting because, in the real world, where people like you have to pick up the bodies as you so grimly put it, they are the only logical, reasonable, possible hope of disposing of the shower of evil, crooked, self-centred shits who, if they get back on May 8, will spend the next five years giving you a fucking sight more bodies to pick up, to use your terminology.

So tell me, who are you going to vote for? Where will your vote go to stop the bastard Tories coming back? What, in any world outside of a fantasy that doesn't exist, as your bodies desperately demonstrate, is the practical alternative, the one you're going to pursue, that will end the hideousness of Tory rule, if it isn't a Labour majority government?

Tell me. I want to know. What have I missed? Explain it. I'm sure everybody else on this site would love to hear your wonder cure, your sure fire rescue plan for this country. Especially if it doesn't involve assuming that somewhere in the next 78 days, something will just flip over and we'll all start living in Utopia and not the United Kingdom.

[ohsocynical]

I belong to the tribe that wants this shower of ### ts out of office.

Me too and I make no apology for it.

Sadly though my vote will be wasted because the safe seat in which I live has been Tory since its creation

Michael Portillo once said something like that Landslide I tell you ! Landslide !

I think Philip Lee my MP has a majority of fifteen thousand...I wouldn't mind so much if he earned it but he does doodley squat and loves his expenses.

[rebeccariots2]

Adam Boulton retweeted
Sky News ‏@SkyNews 1h DAILY TELEGRAPH FRONT PAGE: "Misery of menopause can last for 14 years" #skypapers

Is that their biggest story?

[51A]

If RedNorth's still reading I'd like to say this.

This is how I feel and what pushes me.
I voted Lib Dem in 2010. I am eternally ashamed that I allowed the Conservatives to begin their run of evil, and even more ashamed that the LibDems enabled them. I helped cause the despair and desperation we read about every day. And voting for a minority party isn't going to mend it.

Voting and supporting Labour is the best chance if we're to get those evil bastards out.

That's what it is for me. Plain and simple. Five words. Get the evil bastards out

I know just how you feel, I was a Labour voter all my life so of course in 1997 was overjoyed at the landslide, stayed up all night on the phone and friends arriving, was a student (mature) at the time and on pain of death from my Crim Law lecturer had to get to his lecture 9am next morning. I stayed a Labour Party member for long enough to vote Peter Mandelson off the NEC (could be getting this mixed up with Portillo losing his seat but one or both of those lost to Stephen Twigg, either way I voted against Mandelson on the NEC). I had to toss in my Party membership when Labour went into an illegal war, brought in tuition fees and introduced privatisation of parts of the NHS.

My constituency is getting a new Labour candidate this time, I admired the old one very much and his seat was safe with a majority of over 9000 last time round. I don't know if it will be safe in new hands and I don't know whether to vote Labour as I always do because is it real Labour at all, or to vote anti-austerity (because a very underprivileged Welsh valley with few opportunities can afford no more austerity, it's been supping it up since the 80s) and go Plaid knowing almost full well Plaid will not get in in this constituency but one vote from an unknown Labour candidate could make a difference and we need anything but the tories.

I'll go with your five words indeed though: Get the evil bastards out.

[RogerOThornhill]

Pah!

Newsnight covered the Oborne story...but not what it says about HSBC and the muzzling of free speech aspect but what it means for the Telegraph.

Lightweights.

[ohsocynical]

The very same ....

I thought it might be. There's a tale! I think they're aiming for Kingship.

I think this is the story you're thinking of:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/ ... newsletter

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/ ... sland-feud

Thanks. Just Tweeted them. With the date at the beginning of the Tweet naturally. Might as well put the boot in where we can.

[AngryAsWell]

Me too and I make no apology for it.

Sadly though my vote will be wasted because the safe seat in which I live has been Tory since its creation

Michael Portillo once said something like that Landslide I tell you ! Landslide !

I think Philip Lee my MP has a majority of fifteen thousand...I wouldn't mind so much if he earned it but he does doodley squat and loves his expenses.

Michael Portillo had 28,422 There's hope (near where Wolfie is...) for you yet

[rebeccariots2]

Pah!

Newsnight covered the Oborne story...but not what it says about HSBC and the muzzling of free speech aspect but what it means for the Telegraph.

Lightweights.

Yes. And is it just me, or is Evan Davis constantly fumbling his words? He seems to barely get a sentence out without a slip up and correction in it.

[pk1]

Adam Boulton retweeted
Sky News ‏@SkyNews 1h DAILY TELEGRAPH FRONT PAGE: "Misery of menopause can last for 14 years" #skypapers

Is that their biggest story?

Yup

[ohsocynical]

If RedNorth's still reading I'd like to say this.

This is how I feel and what pushes me.
I voted Lib Dem in 2010. I am eternally ashamed that I allowed the Conservatives to begin their run of evil, and even more ashamed that the LibDems enabled them. I helped cause the despair and desperation we read about every day. And voting for a minority party isn't going to mend it.

Voting and supporting Labour is the best chance if we're to get those evil bastards out.

That's what it is for me. Plain and simple. Five words. Get the evil bastards out

I know just how you feel, I was a Labour voter all my life so of course in 1997 was overjoyed at the landslide, stayed up all night on the phone and friends arriving, was a student (mature) at the time and on pain of death from my Crim Law lecturer had to get to his lecture 9am next morning. I stayed a Labour Party member for long enough to vote Peter Mandelson off the NEC (could be getting this mixed up with Portillo losing his seat but one or both of those lost to Stephen Twigg, either way I voted against Mandelson on the NEC). I had to toss in my Party membership when Labour went into an illegal war, brought in tuition fees and introduced privatisation of parts of the NHS.

My constituency is getting a new Labour candidate this time, I admired the old one very much and his seat was safe with a majority of over 9000 last time round. I don't know if it will be safe in new hands and I don't know whether to vote Labour as I always do because is it real Labour at all, or to vote anti-austerity (because a very underprivileged Welsh valley with few opportunities can afford no more austerity, it's been supping it up since the 80s) and go Plaid knowing almost full well Plaid will not get in in this constituency but one vote from an unknown Labour candidate could make a difference and we need anything but the tories.

I'll go with your five words indeed though: Get the evil bastards out.

I think when you're in that position you need a bit of paper and a pencil. Put all the things Labour offer on one side. All the things Plaid offer on the other. Then go down the list ticking or crossing off as you go.

I don't know much about Welsh politics. I know Rebecca has mentioned that she thinks Plaid are for introducing fox hunting again which would put me off, but then we're talking about whats best for humans too, although cruelty to animals usually cements it for me. If you can hurt an animal and get pleasure from it, then it's a short step to doing the same to humans. The Tories seem to bear that philosophy out nicely.
Don't know what I'd do if Labour were in favour of bringing back hunting. Not vote at all probably.

It's difficult. And hard to change your vote. I agonised for weeks the last time. As it happens I made the wrong decision so I'm certainly not the best person to advise anyone else.

[ohsocynical]

Adam Boulton retweeted
Sky News ‏@SkyNews 1h DAILY TELEGRAPH FRONT PAGE: "Misery of menopause can last for 14 years" #skypapers

Is that their biggest story?

Yup

Damn! they could have asked me. And I've got white hair too.

[ohsocynical]

Michael Portillo once said something like that Landslide I tell you ! Landslide !

I think Philip Lee my MP has a majority of fifteen thousand...I wouldn't mind so much if he earned it but he does doodley squat and loves his expenses.

Michael Portillo had 28,422 There's hope (near where Wolfie is...) for you yet

Bracknell was staunchly Labour until Boundary changes. Bloody cheating Tories. God I hate them.

[ohsocynical]

Michael Portillo once said something like that Landslide I tell you ! Landslide !

I think Philip Lee my MP has a majority of fifteen thousand...I wouldn't mind so much if he earned it but he does doodley squat and loves his expenses.

Michael Portillo had 28,422 There's hope (near where Wolfie is...) for you yet

They must have really hated him....

[Willow904]

I belong to the tribe that wants this shower of ### ts out of office.

Me too and I make no apology for it.

Sadly though my vote will be wasted because the safe seat in which I live has been Tory since its creation

In a truly hung parliament, vote share will count, so even votes in safe seats will be worth casting this time.

[rebeccariots2]

I belong to the tribe that wants this shower of ### ts out of office.

Me too and I make no apology for it.

Sadly though my vote will be wasted because the safe seat in which I live has been Tory since its creation

In a truly hung parliament, vote share will count, so even votes in safe seats will be worth casting this time.

Thank you for reminding us of that. Vote share will make a difference. If the Tories have the biggest vote share (due to the left split being bigger than the right split) in an outcome where Labour and the Tories have equal seats - or as you say it is truly hung - the Tories will get first dibs at trying to form a government. And we know Clegg / Lib Dems have said they will base their decision re who to support on who gets the biggest vote share. So yes - votes in 'safe' seats could be pivotal.

[RogerOThornhill]

Adam Boulton retweeted
Sky News ‏@SkyNews 1h DAILY TELEGRAPH FRONT PAGE: "Misery of menopause can last for 14 years" #skypapers

Is that their biggest story?

Yup

They've become the Express...

[giselle97]

I've been out since just after the Oborne story broke and it occurs to me...will all the usual suspects who like to shriek about Leveson being the biggest threat to a free press now admit that there might be a bigger threat -that of corporate vested interests?

BANG ON!

[AngryAsWell]

Reading about Greece, I'm struck by just how cruel the "powers that be" are - on a grand scale. They know full well the day to day living for the average person in Greece is nightmarish, yet still they are not prepared to give an inch, on the pretext that every other country will want the same/similar deal (and why should we not tackle heinous poverty on our doorsteps by extending (at the very least) vicious loan arrangements I ask myself).
Anyway, musing about the situation I wondered "what if Russia steps in with the dosh". Crazy - maybe - but as one not at all happy with the way the EU stepped on Russia's toes in the Ukraine (esp considering how important the military base Crimea is for them) I wonder if they would contemplate getting a metaphorical "own back" by taking a financial interest in Greece.
What would EU do? More to the point, what would USA do? USA have been pushing EU to come to an arrangement so may be a little miffed to see such a large sea port drifting away from the EU for the cost of a little more negotiation.
....And - is it time Germany paid back the war debt to Greece? Greece (I think - Tem??? where are you?) were forced to agree to wave the debt (reprobation for war damage) and did not willingly give it up, and indeed parts of Greece still have unrepaired war damage - unlike Germany.
Just a few thoughts - nothing to serious or heavy.

[rebeccariots2]

Lib Dem Cllr wins world meat pie championship with vegetarian recipe
http://www.libdemvoice.org/lib-dem-cllr ... 44714.html

Only in Lib Dem world. Somehow it seems to sum them up ... all is not as it's meant to be under the pastry case.

[citizenJA]

Goodnight, friends.
Sleep well.
Love one another.
Please vote.

JA

[rebeccariots2]

Reading about Greece, I'm struck by just how cruel the "powers that be" are - on a grand scale. They know full well the day to day living for the average person in Greece is nightmarish, yet still they are not prepared to give an inch, on the pretext that every other country will want the same/similar deal (and why should we not tackle heinous poverty on our doorsteps by extending (at the very least) vicious loan arrangements I ask myself).
Anyway, musing about the situation I wondered "what if Russia steps in with the dosh". Crazy - maybe - but as one not at all happy with the way the EU stepped on Russia's toes in the Ukraine (esp considering how important the military base Crimea is for them) I wonder if they would contemplate getting a metaphorical "own back" by taking a financial interest in Greece.
What would EU do? More to the point, what would USA do? USA have been pushing EU to come to an arrangement so may be a little miffed to see such a large sea port drifting away from the EU for the cost of a little more negotiation.
....And - is it time Germany paid back the war debt to Greece? Greece (I think - Tem??? where are you?) were forced to agree to wave the debt (reprobation for war damage) and did not willingly give it up, and indeed parts of Greece still have unrepaired war damage - unlike Germany.
Just a few thoughts - nothing to serious or heavy.

Mr Riots was having pretty much the same thoughts as we munched our tea. He said he wouldn't put it past Putin to offer Greece the dosh ... and for several Europeans to look extremely foolish as a result.

[rebeccariots2]

What if Nick Clegg loses his seat at the election?
http://www.nickbarlow.com/blog/?p=3815

[AngryAsWell]

What if Nick Clegg loses his seat at the election?
http://www.nickbarlow.com/blog/?p=3815

We all

[TechnicalEphemera]

Reading about Greece, I'm struck by just how cruel the "powers that be" are - on a grand scale. They know full well the day to day living for the average person in Greece is nightmarish, yet still they are not prepared to give an inch, on the pretext that every other country will want the same/similar deal (and why should we not tackle heinous poverty on our doorsteps by extending (at the very least) vicious loan arrangements I ask myself).
Anyway, musing about the situation I wondered "what if Russia steps in with the dosh". Crazy - maybe - but as one not at all happy with the way the EU stepped on Russia's toes in the Ukraine (esp considering how important the military base Crimea is for them) I wonder if they would contemplate getting a metaphorical "own back" by taking a financial interest in Greece.
What would EU do? More to the point, what would USA do? USA have been pushing EU to come to an arrangement so may be a little miffed to see such a large sea port drifting away from the EU for the cost of a little more negotiation.
....And - is it time Germany paid back the war debt to Greece? Greece (I think - Tem??? where are you?) were forced to agree to wave the debt (reprobation for war damage) and did not willingly give it up, and indeed parts of Greece still have unrepaired war damage - unlike Germany.
Just a few thoughts - nothing to serious or heavy.

Mr Riots was having pretty much the same thoughts as we munched our tea. He said he wouldn't put it past Putin to offer Greece the dosh ... and for several Europeans to look extremely foolish as a result.

I have no doubt if Russia had money it would do exactly that. As it is they should probably just send the Greek's free oil for vetoing sanctions.

That will at least stick it to Merkel.

I am struck by the utter stupidity of the EU leaders. Austerity has failed in Greece, it is failing in Spain, it is failing in Italy.

Give it up, what Europe needs is a new Marshall Plan. If they carry on the Euro will eventually collapse, and to what end?

Merkel is the worst German Chancellor since Hitler. A complete lack of vision and courage. At school I used to look at early 30s Europe and ask how could politicians be so stupid, now I see it first hand.

[rebeccariots2]

Why is the BBC so bad at TV news?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media ... 52412.html

Some of this makes me want to cheer loudly (but it's late and Mr Riots is in bed, so I won't).

The two big slots allocated each night to The Papers raise different questions. Their guests don't analyse the rationale behind stories in the way Al Jazeera's Listening Post does, and they seldom comment on the right-wing agenda of much of the press. And given the profusion of intelligent commentary to be found on the net, it's strange the BBC should persist in privileging the old print media. As for the guests – why give established columnists and editors an additional platform, when you could as easily bring fresh voices into the debate? The cosy little journo-club just gets cosier. Most channels run such slots – it's the cheapest way of filling air-time – but it's low-rent stuff.

Two decades ago, investigative and foreign reports were the glory of BBC television. What has caused them to wither on the vine? Some producers and directors whom I have been quietly sounding out tell a story which I piece together thus...

Although nobody seriously disputes the truth of Andrew Gilligan's revelations about the Blair-Campbell "dodgy dossier", the BBC lost its nerve in the face of the subsequent Hutton Inquiry, and has kow-towed to government ever since; recent fiascos like the Russell Brand hoax have further weakened its will. It has become pathologically risk-averse and its managerial culture has changed accordingly.

The old relationship between journalists and editors has been supplanted: where editors once made the decisions and took the flak, now those decisions – on any project which might seem politically risky – are referred upwards to three shadowy 'advisory' groups known as EdPol (Editorial Policy), High Risk and Safety; projects which worry the bosses can be cancelled by invoking objections from these groups, whose only job is to keep the BBC out of trouble. Moreover, proper investigations require money and manpower, which is one more reason for dropping them; Panorama's funding and staffing is currently being cut to the bone. As one director put it to me: "The BBC has become frightened of its own journalists and sees them as the enemy."

[giselle97]

Right, a brief distraction to look at the world of aviation accidents. If Simon Calder can pontificate on this stuff, so can I.

We have recently had two accidents, Air Asia which was an Airbus lost in cruise, and TransAsia which was an ATR lost on takeoff.

We don't yet know what happened to Air Asia. There is speculation, based on the wreckage that it crashed in a stalled configuration with relatively little forward speed and a relatively slow (but still fatal) vertical speed. There is speculation this might be a case like Air France 447 where the crew flew a perfectly good aircraft into the ground because they couldn't recognise and recover from a stall. There is no evidence this is the case.

In the case of TransAsia it appears that they suffered an issue with one engine feathering but then during takeoff for some reason they shut down the other engine. There is no view as to why this happened.

However there seems to be a consensus forming that the industry has an issue it isn't quite ready for. Back in the day flying was dangerous, lots of people were killed (but as nobody flew numbers were small). As technology improved and the realities of jet travel were understood safety improved, very few people were killed; which was fortunate because if things had gone on like the 50s at current traffic levels one a week would be lost at Heathrow.

Then in the late 80s Airbus introduced automation, and concepts that in certain modes the aircraft overrules the pilots. Boeing also introduced automation but there the pilot tends to be higher up the decision chain (which can result in a good or a bad outcome). After a blip as pilots got used to the new thinking, accident rates continued to drop. This led to increased emphasis on using automation (because most crashes seemed to be pilot error), which occasionally went too far, hence AA and their Children of the Magenta Line video.

However now more pilots are trained to use the automation, training and budgets are cut and pilots get less time hand flying (because they are discouraged and possibly forbidden from doing so). But the problem with automation is that it is not comprehensive and when stuff happens that the computer doesn't understand it quits and hands the aircraft unceremoniously back to the pilot - the electronic equivalent of the Gallic shrug. So now our pilot, who only ever flies on automatics, has a plane with possibly degraded sensors or an unusual problem and he/she has to figure it out and fly a manual recovery in a very short space of time. Of course many of them will have no experience to fall back on and will get it wrong. In effect the critical redundant system (the pilot) is not trained for the role of critical redundant system, because Airlines don't see the benefit of doing so. Instead they train to do routine automated flying.

One wonders if it is time for red tape to force the airlines to adapt training, or if instead what will happen is industry will accept a few crashes each year to keep costs down. As always PPRune has far more knowledgable people thinking this through.

That site is really interesting thank you!
http://www.pprune.org/

[ErnstRemarx]

A very warm welcome to FuriousGeorge and ScarletGas. Hope you'll enjoy it here at the Haven. Do explore the facilities here – bar, café, sauna, miles of beautiful countryside to explore, all pets welcomed, watering-trough and hitching post outside for the riders just outside the newly-finished barn and feed-room. I've just made some scrumptious mackeral and chocolate sauce sandwiches so feel free to grab one from the kitchen before they're all gone

We need to talk about the menu. It's going awfully mainstream, so I'd like to suggest some alterations. For a start, the venison sorbet isn't getting the numbers we envisaged, and the blazing hummous stack hardly shifts unless we get those strange people from round the corner turning up. I still love the idea of pork, mango and dolcelatta kebabs, but we have to recognise that we're probably ahead of the curve here. Recommendations: the cous-cous jelly's a keeper - let's play up the gravy angle, and, for new beverages, I've discovered a locally brewed lager that employs the Dorset naga chilli as a flavouring.

It's lush - get it on the menu ASAP. I really don't understand why I was the only bloke drinking the stuff on my visit to the brewery. Chat later.

[AngryAsWell]

A very warm welcome to FuriousGeorge and ScarletGas. Hope you'll enjoy it here at the Haven. Do explore the facilities here – bar, café, sauna, miles of beautiful countryside to explore, all pets welcomed, watering-trough and hitching post outside for the riders just outside the newly-finished barn and feed-room. I've just made some scrumptious mackeral and chocolate sauce sandwiches so feel free to grab one from the kitchen before they're all gone

We need to talk about the menu. It's going awfully mainstream, so I'd like to suggest some alterations. For a start, the venison sorbet isn't getting the numbers we envisaged, and the blazing hummous stack hardly shifts unless we get those strange people from round the corner turning up. I still love the idea of pork, mango and dolcelatta kebabs, but we have to recognise that we're probably ahead of the curve here. Recommendations: the cous-cous jelly's a keeper - let's play up the gravy angle, and, for new beverages, I've discovered a locally brewed lager that employs the Dorset naga chilli as a flavouring.

It's lush - get it on the menu ASAP. I really don't understand why I was the only bloke drinking the stuff on my visit to the brewery. Chat later.

I must admit the scrumptious mackerel and chocolate sauce sandwiches did catch my eye on the menu, and I decided to return to them later but got distracted.
I'm wondering if one of my mothers old favourites could be added?
Annoyed at my Dad for complaining about his boring cheese butties she asked well what the hell do you want?? Anything but cheese! Beer butties would be better!
Sure enough next day Dad had Beer butties, I'm told they were not well received......
But we could try them - maybe?

[ErnstRemarx]

Reading about Greece, I'm struck by just how cruel the "powers that be" are - on a grand scale. They know full well the day to day living for the average person in Greece is nightmarish, yet still they are not prepared to give an inch, on the pretext that every other country will want the same/similar deal (and why should we not tackle heinous poverty on our doorsteps by extending (at the very least) vicious loan arrangements I ask myself).
Anyway, musing about the situation I wondered "what if Russia steps in with the dosh". Crazy - maybe - but as one not at all happy with the way the EU stepped on Russia's toes in the Ukraine (esp considering how important the military base Crimea is for them) I wonder if they would contemplate getting a metaphorical "own back" by taking a financial interest in Greece.
What would EU do? More to the point, what would USA do? USA have been pushing EU to come to an arrangement so may be a little miffed to see such a large sea port drifting away from the EU for the cost of a little more negotiation.
....And - is it time Germany paid back the war debt to Greece? Greece (I think - Tem??? where are you?) were forced to agree to wave the debt (reprobation for war damage) and did not willingly give it up, and indeed parts of Greece still have unrepaired war damage - unlike Germany.
Just a few thoughts - nothing to serious or heavy.

Don't put the Greeks asking for help from Russia aside. That could happen, and it would only be the EU that would suffer.

[ErnstRemarx]

A very warm welcome to FuriousGeorge and ScarletGas. Hope you'll enjoy it here at the Haven. Do explore the facilities here – bar, café, sauna, miles of beautiful countryside to explore, all pets welcomed, watering-trough and hitching post outside for the riders just outside the newly-finished barn and feed-room. I've just made some scrumptious mackeral and chocolate sauce sandwiches so feel free to grab one from the kitchen before they're all gone

We need to talk about the menu. It's going awfully mainstream, so I'd like to suggest some alterations. For a start, the venison sorbet isn't getting the numbers we envisaged, and the blazing hummous stack hardly shifts unless we get those strange people from round the corner turning up. I still love the idea of pork, mango and dolcelatta kebabs, but we have to recognise that we're probably ahead of the curve here. Recommendations: the cous-cous jelly's a keeper - let's play up the gravy angle, and, for new beverages, I've discovered a locally brewed lager that employs the Dorset naga chilli as a flavouring.

It's lush - get it on the menu ASAP. I really don't understand why I was the only bloke drinking the stuff on my visit to the brewery. Chat later.

I must admit the scrumptious mackerel and chocolate sauce sandwiches did catch my eye on the menu, and I decided to return to them later but got distracted.
I'm wondering if one of my mothers old favourites could be added?
Annoyed at my Dad for complaining about his boring cheese butties she asked well what the hell do you want?? Anything but cheese! Beer butties would be better!
Sure enough next day Dad had Beer butties, I'm told they were not well received......
But we could try them - maybe?

Noted.

[AngryAsWell]

Sunny Hundal ‏@sunny_hundal · 3h3 hours ago
I love that Dan Hodges wrote for the Telegraph on how the HSBC scandal was terrible for d Miliband. He's given up trying.

[thatchersorphan]

I dont think putting the text on a message board is considered publishing, but I will remove it if the mods decide.

I also post on a link sharing & protest coverage news site (one that reads user contributed links in a nightly news snapshot) The guidelines there state :
Please don't post an entire article to limit our liability to copyright problems, but we want to post enough of it so that those who only hear the snippet being read will get somewhat informed - or maybe its an interesting enough teaser/lead-in to make others want to click on the link themselves, so they can read the whole article at their leisure.

They did look into copyright policy when writing their guidelines, so it's probably better to err on the safe side and just include the link and most relevant bits.