Wednesday 25th February 2015

[AnatolyKasparov]

Sorry for your loss rr2

[LadyCentauria]

Harry Leslie Smith
‏@Harryslaststand
On Feb 25,1923, I was born in a gas lit hard scrabble Barnsley where life was tough & short 92 years later I'm on #Twitter Tempus fugit....


Have we wished Harry happy birthday ?

I'll raise a cup to Harry's continued good health and many happy returns

[Toby Latimer]

R.I.P. Musica

Heartbreak in the Riots home this evening.

Sorry to hear that rr2, take care x

[letsskiptotheleft]

According to Severin Carroll and the Guardian the Scottish Government are rolling out a form of ID scheme.

Funnily enough the only time "SNP" is mentioned is from a quote from Margaret Curran. The cynic in me suggests if Labour tried, again to enact such a proposal "LABOUR" would be screamed in ten inch letters.

[HindleA]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... istraction" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Osborne's dramatic Manchester NHS plan is a dangerous distraction"

[ohsocynical]

John Cleese Compares Journalists To Murderers At Confrontational Hacked Off Meeting

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/02 ... _hp_ref=uk

I bet that made him some fans in Fleet St.

[HindleA]

Sorry to hear about your sad news RR 2

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Sorry to hear the sad news RR2.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Changed my mind.

[HindleA]

" Though the Conservatives will protest otherwise, the move risks being the first step in the ultimate unravelling of a truly national health service. "


This.

[Tubby Isaacs]

According to Severin Carroll and the Guardian the Scottish Government are rolling out a form of ID scheme.

Funnily enough the only time "SNP" is mentioned is from a quote from Margaret Curran. The cynic in me suggests if Labour tried, again to enact such a proposal "LABOUR" would be screamed in ten inch letters.

They're right civil libertarians.

Their nationalized cops stop and search far more than Boris Johnson's Met. If Scotland had significant ethnic minority populations, they'd never get away with that.

Salmond did a snarky line v England during the riots. "Different kind of society" apparently.

[letsskiptotheleft]

Via Fiasal Islam, Tom Brake speaking against Labour's motion ''we don't want vacuous functionaries here''.




As opposed to what?

[Tubby Isaacs]

Via Fiasal Islam, Tom Brake speaking against Labour's motion ''we don't want vacuous functionaries here''.




As opposed to what?

Nobody could look at Tom Brake and think those words.

[daydreamer]

R.I.P. Musica

Heartbreak in the Riots home this evening.

So sorry, Rebecca

[Willow904]

" Though the Conservatives will protest otherwise, the move risks being the first step in the ultimate unravelling of a truly national health service. "


This.

The NHS is one of the largest organisations, one of the largest employers in the world. Few private companies have experience of running such a huge operation, in the world of health there are no private providers that come anywhere close. If you break the NHS up into smaller chunks, however, you create several health service providers, all with much smaller budgets and workforces, more in line with the kind of size of organisation private health providers are used to running. This move raises the spectre of a different scale of privatisation altogether. Rather than just a public body outsourcing much of it's service to the private sector through many small contracts, you could actually outsource the running of the whole shebang as well. Rather like the way Somerset Council outsourced the whole of its back office work to Southwest One, with disastrous results ending in legal action. I really am quite alarmed by this move and am very disappointed that any Labour council would support this fragmentation of the NHS, as it will so obviously lead to its demise. If it's not national, it's not a national health service. Indeed, hospitals were run by local councils before the NHS came into being in 1948. If it was such a good way of running things, why was it changed in the first place?

Bevan quickly came to the decision that the 1944 white paper's proposal for local authority control of voluntary hospitals was not workable, as the local authorities were too poor and too small to manage hospitals.[9] He decided that "the only thing to do was to create an entirely new hospital service, to take over the voluntary hospitals, and to take over the local government hospitals and to organise them as a single hospital service".[10] This structure of the NHS in England and Wales was established by the National Health Service Act 1946 which received Royal Assent on 6 November 1946.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... England%29

[refitman]

Daniel,

It's time to stop MPs taking second jobs once and for all. Your MP should be working solely in the interests of you and your community.

The allegations this week have been deeply disturbing. We need to take action to make sure this doesn't happen again.

From 7 May, no Labour MP will be able to take a paid directorship or consultancy, and the next Labour government will move to extend the ban to MPs of all parties.

We must rebuild public trust in politics — the integrity of our democracy depends on it. But the Tories are trying to block our reforms. Today at PMQs, I asked David Cameron six times if he'd act to end MPs having second jobs. Six times, he refused to say he would.

We need to show them the public wants change. Click here to share the graphic on Facebook now.

Thank you.

Ed

[Tubby Isaacs]

R.I.P. Musica

Heartbreak in the Riots home this evening.

So sorry, Rebecca

Sorry from me too.

Very sad.

[citizenJA]

From the ONS, big housing data release.
Apologies for posting just England's figures.
I'm unable to format the post with NI, Wales & Scotland included to make sense.
Please do see the ONS website for that full table I've only partially posted below.
The number of houses completed are only more shockingly low.

"Table 6: Number of house builds [England]completed by country, financial years 2003/04 to 2013/14
Number of completed house builds"

Financial Year ........ England
2003-04 ........ 143,960
2004-05 ......... 155,890
2005-06 ........ 163,400
2006-07 ......... 167,680
2007-08 ......... 170,610
2008-09 ......... 140,990
2009-10 ........ 119,910
2010-11 ........ 107,870
2011-12 ......... 118,510
2012-13 ......... 107,980
2013-14 ......... 112,370

"Using the same figures, it is possible to examine the number of houses completed by country, and by financial year 2012/13, the number of houses completed in Scotland and Wales were at post-war record lows, with England reaching a post-war record low in the financial year 2010/11.

...shows the number of completed houses by country and details that in England in financial year 2012/13 houses were being built at only 63% of the peak rate before the financial crisis, while the comparable figure for Scotland was 55% and Wales was 58%. Northern Ireland reached its low in financial year 2011/12, however as of financial year 2012/13, the number of houses built compared to its pre-financial crisis peak was only 45%."

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/hpi/house ... ompletions

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... le209.xlsx

[rebeccariots2]

Ivan Lewis ‏@IvanLewis_MP 30m30 minutes ago
Mixed feelings watching Bury Councils Budget meeting from public gallery.Fond memories of 8yrs as Bury Cllr.Scale of Tory cuts devastating.

Thinking of Ernst.

[55DegreesNorth]

@RebeccaR2
Sorry to hear about your loss.
Remember the good times.

Edited because my iPad has been possessed.

[citizenJA]

Via Fiasal Islam, Tom Brake speaking against Labour's motion ''we don't want vacuous functionaries here''.




As opposed to what?

'we don't want vacuous functionaries'? I don't understand what that means. What does this mean in relation to Labour's motion?

[AngryAsWell]

" Though the Conservatives will protest otherwise, the move risks being the first step in the ultimate unravelling of a truly national health service. "


This.

The NHS is one of the largest organisations, one of the largest employers in the world. Few private companies have experience of running such a huge operation, in the world of health there are no private providers that come anywhere close. If you break the NHS up into smaller chunks, however, you create several health service providers, all with much smaller budgets and workforces, more in line with the kind of size of organisation private health providers are used to running. This move raises the spectre of a different scale of privatisation altogether. Rather than just a public body outsourcing much of it's service to the private sector through many small contracts, you could actually outsource the running of the whole shebang as well. Rather like the way Somerset Council outsourced the whole of its back office work to Southwest One, with disastrous results ending in legal action. I really am quite alarmed by this move and am very disappointed that any Labour council would support this fragmentation of the NHS, as it will so obviously lead to its demise. If it's not national, it's not a national health service. Indeed, hospitals were run by local councils before the NHS came into being in 1948. If it was such a good way of running things, why was it changed in the first place?

Bevan quickly came to the decision that the 1944 white paper's proposal for local authority control of voluntary hospitals was not workable, as the local authorities were too poor and too small to manage hospitals.[9] He decided that "the only thing to do was to create an entirely new hospital service, to take over the voluntary hospitals, and to take over the local government hospitals and to organise them as a single hospital service".[10] This structure of the NHS in England and Wales was established by the National Health Service Act 1946 which received Royal Assent on 6 November 1946.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... England%29

I'm not sure just how much say they have in it, I get the feeling its being imposed not negotiated. The council were in "northern power house" discussion with Osborne and I wonder if he has just tossed this out there like a hand grenade. This morning a Labour councillor was tweeting "nothing has been settled yet" (forget which one sorry)

[Tubby Isaacs]

So, democratised NHS?

Which could have been achieved by electing PCTs- which hilariously made it into the Coalition Agreement before PCTs were abolished.

[RogerOThornhill]

" Though the Conservatives will protest otherwise, the move risks being the first step in the ultimate unravelling of a truly national health service. "


This.

The NHS is one of the largest organisations, one of the largest employers in the world. Few private companies have experience of running such a huge operation, in the world of health there are no private providers that come anywhere close. If you break the NHS up into smaller chunks, however, you create several health service providers, all with much smaller budgets and workforces, more in line with the kind of size of organisation private health providers are used to running. This move raises the spectre of a different scale of privatisation altogether. Rather than just a public body outsourcing much of it's service to the private sector through many small contracts, you could actually outsource the running of the whole shebang as well. Rather like the way Somerset Council outsourced the whole of its back office work to Southwest One, with disastrous results ending in legal action. I really am quite alarmed by this move and am very disappointed that any Labour council would support this fragmentation of the NHS, as it will so obviously lead to its demise. If it's not national, it's not a national health service. Indeed, hospitals were run by local councils before the NHS came into being in 1948. If it was such a good way of running things, why was it changed in the first place?

Bevan quickly came to the decision that the 1944 white paper's proposal for local authority control of voluntary hospitals was not workable, as the local authorities were too poor and too small to manage hospitals.[9] He decided that "the only thing to do was to create an entirely new hospital service, to take over the voluntary hospitals, and to take over the local government hospitals and to organise them as a single hospital service".[10] This structure of the NHS in England and Wales was established by the National Health Service Act 1946 which received Royal Assent on 6 November 1946.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... England%29

I'm not sure just how much say they have in it, I get the feeling its being imposed not negotiated. The council were in "northern power house" discussion with Osborne and I wonder if he has just tossed this out there like a hand grenade. This morning a Labour councillor was tweeting "nothing has been settled yet" (forget which one sorry)

It was the CEO

Helen Pidd ✔ @helenpidd
Follow
Howard Bernstein, Mcr chief exec, tells me reports of the city region getting control of £6bn health budget are "premature" & "speculative".

[WelshIan]

RR2 - Sorry to hear about Musica.

[rebeccariots2]

Some fantastically illiberal (putting it kindly) comments on LDV re the post about Jo Swinson sticking up for Rachel Reeves over the sexist remarks of the Tory MP basically saying she couldn't / shouldn't carry out a ministerial role if she was pregnant / on maternity leave.

http://www.libdemvoice.org/jo-swinson-d ... 44787.html

[ephemerid]

Sending hugs, Rebecca and Mr.Riots.

[rebeccariots2]

New Whitehall lobbyists register to be launched within weeks
Parliamentarians would have to publicly declare meetings with ministers and permanent secretaries if they are being paid to do so and are VAT registered
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... registered

Far too little. Far too late.

[HindleA]

As has been pointed out by a few,IDS received plaudits for taking time off to help his wife.

[RogerOThornhill]

Oh, not sure when this was put up...Durham Free School will close.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... notice.pdf

On 19 January 2015 I gave written notice (under clause 86) of the Secretary of State’s intention to terminate the Funding Agreement and invited you (in accordance with clause 87) to respond with any representations by 3 February 2015.
On 2 February we received the Academy Trust’s representations in a letter of that date from your solicitors, Aughton Ainsworth, and your email (sent on 2 February at 17:25), to which you attached your governance improvement plan and an earlier review of governance. Following my visit to the school on 13 February with an Education Adviser, you sent us a school improvement plan and a letter dated 18 February drawing attention to some areas of improvement. We have also seen Aughton Ainsworth’s letter of 16 February, enclosing further information about pupils with special educational needs and disabilities.

In accordance with clause 88(b), the Secretary of State has considered your representations. She has also taken into account representations made in letters and emails from parents and pupils of Durham Free School and others.

Having considered all these representations carefully, the Secretary of State remains satisfied that it is appropriate to terminate the Funding Agreement. Consequently, in accordance with clause 88 and on behalf of the Secretary of State, I am issuing you with written notice to terminate the Funding Agreement with effect from Friday 27 March 2015

And the LA will pick up the pieces...

[Willow904]

" Though the Conservatives will protest otherwise, the move risks being the first step in the ultimate unravelling of a truly national health service. "


This.

The NHS is one of the largest organisations, one of the largest employers in the world. Few private companies have experience of running such a huge operation, in the world of health there are no private providers that come anywhere close. If you break the NHS up into smaller chunks, however, you create several health service providers, all with much smaller budgets and workforces, more in line with the kind of size of organisation private health providers are used to running. This move raises the spectre of a different scale of privatisation altogether. Rather than just a public body outsourcing much of it's service to the private sector through many small contracts, you could actually outsource the running of the whole shebang as well. Rather like the way Somerset Council outsourced the whole of its back office work to Southwest One, with disastrous results ending in legal action. I really am quite alarmed by this move and am very disappointed that any Labour council would support this fragmentation of the NHS, as it will so obviously lead to its demise. If it's not national, it's not a national health service. Indeed, hospitals were run by local councils before the NHS came into being in 1948. If it was such a good way of running things, why was it changed in the first place?

Bevan quickly came to the decision that the 1944 white paper's proposal for local authority control of voluntary hospitals was not workable, as the local authorities were too poor and too small to manage hospitals.[9] He decided that "the only thing to do was to create an entirely new hospital service, to take over the voluntary hospitals, and to take over the local government hospitals and to organise them as a single hospital service".[10] This structure of the NHS in England and Wales was established by the National Health Service Act 1946 which received Royal Assent on 6 November 1946.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... England%29

I'm not sure just how much say they have in it, I get the feeling its being imposed not negotiated. The council were in "northern power house" discussion with Osborne and I wonder if he has just tossed this out there like a hand grenade. This morning a Labour councillor was tweeting "nothing has been settled yet" (forget which one sorry)

If that's the case then that's worrying for a whole new set of reasons. This has been all over the news today as something that is going to happen, a done deal. How has such a misleading impression taken hold if it's just a Tory party proposal?

[AngryAsWell]

The NHS is one of the largest organisations, one of the largest employers in the world. Few private companies have experience of running such a huge operation, in the world of health there are no private providers that come anywhere close. If you break the NHS up into smaller chunks, however, you create several health service providers, all with much smaller budgets and workforces, more in line with the kind of size of organisation private health providers are used to running. This move raises the spectre of a different scale of privatisation altogether. Rather than just a public body outsourcing much of it's service to the private sector through many small contracts, you could actually outsource the running of the whole shebang as well. Rather like the way Somerset Council outsourced the whole of its back office work to Southwest One, with disastrous results ending in legal action. I really am quite alarmed by this move and am very disappointed that any Labour council would support this fragmentation of the NHS, as it will so obviously lead to its demise. If it's not national, it's not a national health service. Indeed, hospitals were run by local councils before the NHS came into being in 1948. If it was such a good way of running things, why was it changed in the first place?

I'm not sure just how much say they have in it, I get the feeling its being imposed not negotiated. The council were in "northern power house" discussion with Osborne and I wonder if he has just tossed this out there like a hand grenade. This morning a Labour councillor was tweeting "nothing has been settled yet" (forget which one sorry)

If that's the case then that's worrying for a whole new set of reasons. This has been all over the news today as something that is going to happen, a done deal. How has such a misleading impression taken hold if it's just a Tory party proposal?

Leader of council on TV seems to confirm it will go ahead so not sure at all what's happening or how it's happening.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Oh, not sure when this was put up...Durham Free School will close.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... notice.pdf

On 19 January 2015 I gave written notice (under clause 86) of the Secretary of State’s intention to terminate the Funding Agreement and invited you (in accordance with clause 87) to respond with any representations by 3 February 2015.
On 2 February we received the Academy Trust’s representations in a letter of that date from your solicitors, Aughton Ainsworth, and your email (sent on 2 February at 17:25), to which you attached your governance improvement plan and an earlier review of governance. Following my visit to the school on 13 February with an Education Adviser, you sent us a school improvement plan and a letter dated 18 February drawing attention to some areas of improvement. We have also seen Aughton Ainsworth’s letter of 16 February, enclosing further information about pupils with special educational needs and disabilities.

In accordance with clause 88(b), the Secretary of State has considered your representations. She has also taken into account representations made in letters and emails from parents and pupils of Durham Free School and others.

Having considered all these representations carefully, the Secretary of State remains satisfied that it is appropriate to terminate the Funding Agreement. Consequently, in accordance with clause 88 and on behalf of the Secretary of State, I am issuing you with written notice to terminate the Funding Agreement with effect from Friday 27 March 2015

And the LA will pick up the pieces...

So engaging Gerald Howarth didn't work?

[RogerOThornhill]

Oh, not sure when this was put up...Durham Free School will close.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... notice.pdf

On 19 January 2015 I gave written notice (under clause 86) of the Secretary of State’s intention to terminate the Funding Agreement and invited you (in accordance with clause 87) to respond with any representations by 3 February 2015.
On 2 February we received the Academy Trust’s representations in a letter of that date from your solicitors, Aughton Ainsworth, and your email (sent on 2 February at 17:25), to which you attached your governance improvement plan and an earlier review of governance. Following my visit to the school on 13 February with an Education Adviser, you sent us a school improvement plan and a letter dated 18 February drawing attention to some areas of improvement. We have also seen Aughton Ainsworth’s letter of 16 February, enclosing further information about pupils with special educational needs and disabilities.

In accordance with clause 88(b), the Secretary of State has considered your representations. She has also taken into account representations made in letters and emails from parents and pupils of Durham Free School and others.

Having considered all these representations carefully, the Secretary of State remains satisfied that it is appropriate to terminate the Funding Agreement. Consequently, in accordance with clause 88 and on behalf of the Secretary of State, I am issuing you with written notice to terminate the Funding Agreement with effect from Friday 27 March 2015

And the LA will pick up the pieces...

So engaging Gerald Howarth didn't work?

Obviously not.

Who'd have thunk it eh?

No doubt there'll be silence from the usual suspects that clam up when a Free School gets closed by their own side.

[AngryAsWell]

The Guardian has the details of the Manchester deal :
Labour row over plan to give Greater Manchester control of health spending

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... h-spending" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Willow904]

I'm not sure just how much say they have in it, I get the feeling its being imposed not negotiated. The council were in "northern power house" discussion with Osborne and I wonder if he has just tossed this out there like a hand grenade. This morning a Labour councillor was tweeting "nothing has been settled yet" (forget which one sorry)

If that's the case then that's worrying for a whole new set of reasons. This has been all over the news today as something that is going to happen, a done deal. How has such a misleading impression taken hold if it's just a Tory party proposal?

Leader of council on TV seems to confirm it will go ahead so not sure at all what's happening or how it's happening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ma ... r-31615218
There's more detail in the above article on the BBC website, but it doesn't really clear anything up. Worryingly Andy Burnham seems as surprised by this as everyone else, despite Labour councillors apparently being responsible for suggesting this. I suspect shenanigans on a grand scale. It's most unusual for something so major to come about apparently without the opposition even knowing about it. The only positive is Burnham seems to have very similar doubts to my own:

Reacting to the proposals, Andy Burnham, Labour's shadow health secretary, said: "This has to be a solution that works everywhere or that could be offered to everywhere.

"If you're going to stick to the idea of a national health service you can't have a Swiss cheese NHS where some bits of the system are operating to different rules or have different powers and freedoms.

"I am a bit worried what I'm hearing because it does point to further break-up of the idea of the National Health Service."

[AngryAsWell]

The Guardian has the details of the Manchester deal :
Labour row over plan to give Greater Manchester control of health spending

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... h-spending" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unison Lady on C4 news said none of this was in devolution package discussed in November and that this morning (well, late last night) was the first anyone had heard of it. Evidentially it was leaked and it's official announcement was planned for Friday by Osborne.

[RogerOThornhill]

Here was the presumably hastily arranged question from a LibDem...

Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD):
Does the Prime Minister agree with me that, hot on the heels of devolving powers on transport and housing, the welcome announcement that Manchester will take control of its £6 billion NHS budget shows the coalition’s commitment to local decision-making for Manchester, in stark contrast to the Labour Government that oversaw the closure of Withington hospital from Whitehall?

The Prime Minister:
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that this is an important breakthrough. It has been made possible by our reforms. It will help to bring the NHS and social care together. The shadow Health Secretary, who presumably knew absolutely nothing about this, does not understand that eight Labour authorities in Greater Manchester have been talking to us and working with us about how to make this a reality. What a contrast: people working together to improve the NHS, instead of trying to weaponise it across the Dispatch Box.

Because the people in on it were told to keep their mouths shut or the deal's off?

[AngryAsWell]

Ernst
If you at the council meeting please tell them this resident does not want 800k spending on changing bins! I'm happy with how they are. (Assuming you checking in on phone)

[Tubby Isaacs]

Stumbled across this episode of Who Dares Wins from 1988.

First gag is about "SDP leader, Robert MacLennan".

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[letsskiptotheleft]

Watching this at the moment: I always knew Michael Sheen was a good 'un!

It's of a Welsh bent, but it could equally apply to any working class area in the country.

23 minutes in is especially good.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... -rebellion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Tubby Isaacs]

Here was the presumably hastily arranged question from a LibDem...

Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD):
Does the Prime Minister agree with me that, hot on the heels of devolving powers on transport and housing, the welcome announcement that Manchester will take control of its £6 billion NHS budget shows the coalition’s commitment to local decision-making for Manchester, in stark contrast to the Labour Government that oversaw the closure of Withington hospital from Whitehall?

The Prime Minister:
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that this is an important breakthrough. It has been made possible by our reforms. It will help to bring the NHS and social care together. The shadow Health Secretary, who presumably knew absolutely nothing about this, does not understand that eight Labour authorities in Greater Manchester have been talking to us and working with us about how to make this a reality. What a contrast: people working together to improve the NHS, instead of trying to weaponise it across the Dispatch Box.

Because the people in on it were told to keep their mouths shut or the deal's off?

Robert Snozers?

Was this a reasonable closure?

[Maeght]

R.I.P. Musica

Heartbreak in the Riots home this evening.

So sorry to hear this sad news.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Watching this at the moment: I always knew Michael Sheen was a good 'un!

It's of a Welsh bent, but it could equally apply to any working class area in the country.

23 minutes in is especially good.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... -rebellion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It'll be better than that old Who Dares Wins that I just put up.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Mind you, this pastiche of Leader of the Pack with Tony Robinson on a a C5 is proper good.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I met Philip Pope in Soho once. Very patient with me quoting old sketches at him.

[giselle97]

R.I.P. Musica

Heartbreak in the Riots home this evening.

Been dreading hearing your sad news Rebecca and Mr Riots. You were Musica's good friends and she knew it. Tears for now for all of you.

[rebeccariots2]

Duncan Hothersall ‏@dhothersall 50m50 minutes ago
Glad to see Wings getting his just deserts, for once, for yet another personal smear and mob abuse campaign. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... ed-5232409" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

[HindleA]

After Monday night's level-pegging and Tuesday's 2% CON lead latest YouGov/Sun poll has
CON 33
LAB 33
LD 8
UKIP 15

[AnatolyKasparov]

Have the Greens dropped to zero after yesterday, then?

[ohsocynical]

Have the Greens dropped to zero after yesterday, then?

Green 6%