Tuesday 3rd March 2015

Post by **refitman** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 7:18 am

Morning all. Tories lead by 3 points on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 2nd March -

Con 35%, (+1)
Lab 32%, (-2)
LD 7%, (-1)
UKIP 15%, (+1)
GRN 6%; (+1)

APP -18 (+2)

discordantharmony · Post by **discordantharmony** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 8:04 am

Hello and good morning UN ET AL ........

Well this all pretty much started off really as just a simple question I was going to ask Ernst via PM last night about homelessness in Bury. See I might have mentioned before that I live in Manchester and you know I’ve been homeless. I was just very concerned that you would all maybe not be particularly interested in the questions that I posed, not being really your typical politics type subject you might say. Needless to say I neither PM’d nor posted it last night due to a heavy dose of procrastination

However having given it a bit of thought overnight perhaps I should pose the questions to all of you and maybe get an overall UK picture of where your perceptions regarding homelessness is in your particular area.

What I certainly do not want to do is come across as someone that is involved in a game of ‘Homeless Top Trumps’. Yes I have been homeless but in the great scheme of things my months living and sleeping on the streets are nothing to what some of these guys have endured. Believe me all the problems normal people comment about BTL on some blogs are spoken verbatim on the streets among the homeless. It’s just a matter of degree I guess.

Anyway. With your indulgence please........

Do you have homeless people around where you live?

Has it gotten worse (quantity wise) in the last 5 years?

Have you seen or read about any violence towards homeless people in your area and if so do you believe (tm) this has increased in the last few years?

Would you give money to a person on the street if they asked you?

Any other comments you can think of.

I have witnessed true evil and true kindness whilst I was on the streets. I have had people think it’s funny to piss on me whilst I have been asleep behind shops at 3am in the morning when they are just coming out of a night club or maybe just give me a good kicking for the terrible crime of not having a roof over my head and conversely once the couple who took me to their house and let me shower, give me a change of clothes, eat and sleep on their sofa for a few days over what was to be the last Christmas that I spent on the streets. In a lot of ways it is a microcosm of life in general.

I’m not very good at writing things down so I hope this hasn’t come across as too garbled and nonsensical.

Anyway, onward and upwards

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 8:11 am

discordantharmony wrote:Hello and good morning UN ET AL ........

Well this all pretty much started off really as just a simple question I was going to ask Ernst via PM last night about homelessness in Bury. See I might have mentioned before that I live in Manchester and you know I’ve been homeless. I was just very concerned that you would all maybe not be particularly interested in the questions that I posed, not being really your typical politics type subject you might say. Needless to say I neither PM’d nor posted it last night due to a heavy dose of procrastination

However having given it a bit of thought overnight perhaps I should pose the questions to all of you and maybe get an overall UK picture of where your perceptions regarding homelessness is in your particular area.

What I certainly do not want to do is come across as someone that is involved in a game of ‘Homeless Top Trumps’. Yes I have been homeless but in the great scheme of things my months living and sleeping on the streets are nothing to what some of these guys have endured. Believe me all the problems normal people comment about BTL on some blogs are spoken verbatim on the streets among the homeless. It’s just a matter of degree I guess.

Anyway. With your indulgence please........

Do you have homeless people around where you live?

Has it gotten worse (quantity wise) in the last 5 years?

Have you seen or read about any violence towards homeless people in your area and if so do you believe (tm) this has increased in the last few years?

Would you give money to a person on the street if they asked you?

Any other comments you can think of.

I have witnessed true evil and true kindness whilst I was on the streets. I have had people think it’s funny to piss on me whilst I have been asleep behind shops at 3am in the morning when they are just coming out of a night club or maybe just give me a good kicking for the terrible crime of not having a roof over my head and conversely once the couple who took me to their house and let me shower, give me a change of clothes, eat and sleep on their sofa for a few days over what was to be the last Christmas that I spent on the streets. In a lot of ways it is a microcosm of life in general.

I’m not very good at writing things down so I hope this hasn’t come across as too garbled and nonsensical.

Anyway, onward and upwards

Morning DiscordantHarmony

Oh yes homelessness is on the rise judging by people I see sleeping rough in Leeds and, when I'm working there, Birmingham.

It breaks my heart. Do you remember Labour and I think in particular Ken Livingstone saying they were going to deal with homelessness? And largely they did. Unfortunately, as we all know they didn't get rid of the unfairness in the neoliberal system that leads to it.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 8:12 am

Morftereveninoon

I can't help feeling slightly downhearted here in Hope (just North of Peterborough). It seems Osborne is in fact the 'evil genius' many claim him to be and not just an elitist over-privileged sack of Bullingdon Bullshit - the 'DevoManc' NHS furore has panned out exactly as I suspect he thought it would. No-one talking about HSBC/Empty housing 'pledges'/Rifkind and the mysterious money-funneling Alliance/Maximarse and the IDS-Fraud-Purnell anti-human disability (and illness) denial machine (etc...etc...etc...etc) any more? Quelle f*****g surprise

It also seems that the 'clipped weighted moving average' is indeed a real thing - Cons now starting to show as ahead in more polls and by more percentage points - as they've had a really good 2015 so far (in the 'production of shiny squirrels' department), it's easy to understand how more and more people want to vote for them

Allegedly our Westmonster MSM have stated that Miliband is indeed credible (ref: Obornetweets etc), much more effective at PMQs etc, about which they are, of course, 'genuinely' shocked...which then has the effect of increasing the Tory vote? Yup...I believe(TM)

Alternatively, of course, I could go back and have a look at the 'neck and neck' polling for the Indy Ref - they got the 'Ayes' right but underestimated the 'Nos' by 5%ish...and the MSM told us (over and over again) that it was 'far too close to call'

discordantharmony · Post by **discordantharmony** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 8:38 am

Morning DiscordantHarmony

Oh yes homelessness is on the rise judging by people I see sleeping rough in Leeds and, when I'm working there, Birmingham.

It breaks my heart. Do you remember Labour and I think in particular Ken Livingstone saying they were going to deal with homelessness? And largely they did. Unfortunately, as we all know they didn't get rid of the unfairness in the neoliberal system that leads to it.

Just read his biography a few months ago. What a cracking good read.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 8:51 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
discordantharmony wrote:Hello and good morning UN ET AL ........

Well this all pretty much started off really as just a simple question I was going to ask Ernst via PM last night about homelessness in Bury. See I might have mentioned before that I live in Manchester and you know I’ve been homeless. I was just very concerned that you would all maybe not be particularly interested in the questions that I posed, not being really your typical politics type subject you might say. Needless to say I neither PM’d nor posted it last night due to a heavy dose of procrastination

However having given it a bit of thought overnight perhaps I should pose the questions to all of you and maybe get an overall UK picture of where your perceptions regarding homelessness is in your particular area.

What I certainly do not want to do is come across as someone that is involved in a game of ‘Homeless Top Trumps’. Yes I have been homeless but in the great scheme of things my months living and sleeping on the streets are nothing to what some of these guys have endured. Believe me all the problems normal people comment about BTL on some blogs are spoken verbatim on the streets among the homeless. It’s just a matter of degree I guess.

Anyway. With your indulgence please........

Do you have homeless people around where you live?

Has it gotten worse (quantity wise) in the last 5 years?

Have you seen or read about any violence towards homeless people in your area and if so do you believe (tm) this has increased in the last few years?

Would you give money to a person on the street if they asked you?

Any other comments you can think of.

I have witnessed true evil and true kindness whilst I was on the streets. I have had people think it’s funny to piss on me whilst I have been asleep behind shops at 3am in the morning when they are just coming out of a night club or maybe just give me a good kicking for the terrible crime of not having a roof over my head and conversely once the couple who took me to their house and let me shower, give me a change of clothes, eat and sleep on their sofa for a few days over what was to be the last Christmas that I spent on the streets. In a lot of ways it is a microcosm of life in general.

I’m not very good at writing things down so I hope this hasn’t come across as too garbled and nonsensical.

Anyway, onward and upwards
Morning DiscordantHarmony

Oh yes homelessness is on the rise judging by people I see sleeping rough in Leeds and, when I'm working there, Birmingham.

It breaks my heart. Do you remember Labour and I think in particular Ken Livingstone saying they were going to deal with homelessness? And largely they did. Unfortunately, as we all know they didn't get rid of the unfairness in the neoliberal system that leads to it.

Agreed - here in Hope, homelessness is pretty much unheard of (I'm not saying it's not there, but as a very minor market town (near Hope, but not P'boro) it would become a 'SomeoneElsesProblem') - Peterborough has had a rise though (anecdotal - Giselle97 might know more)).

For me it's all linked - homelessness, poverty, hunger and destitution - it has nothing to do with reality (45% of the worlds food production is wasted/donations to food banks provide the supermarkets with full profit on all items donated...see pic below re 'poverty'....over 750,000 empty dwellings in Britain and yet people starve and freeze on the streets) and everything to do with (checks tin-foil hat positioned correctly) the 'US-ification' of Britain through organisations like ALEC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_L ... ge_Council (still going - how many of our 'unthink-tanks' are influenced by/connected to it?)

Over the weekend, I had a conversation with my socialist (is there any other kind? Oh...of course... Sarkozy) French friend - very depressed about how 'it'll never change'....so I did my best to highlight the advantages to living in Hope...and we agreed that no matter how bad it gets (or seems to get) the British have a proud (and I hope unbreakable) connection to policing without the need for firearms....because this sort of thing happens...

http://rt.com/usa/236677-lapd-shot-dead-homeless/

The evil is there (in humanity, just under the surface, as we know) - the point about civilised governance is that it should cater for all and should provide the protections necessary to ensure that evil is addressed, and cannot surface as violence against others. For 35+ years, however, we've had government by corporation (or the political will to enable government by corporation)....here in Hope, despite the f***yougov polls etc, I believe we're still in for a Labour landslide and if Mr Ed has any sense, he will take at least one lesson from the Coalition of Cretinous Incompetence...when elected, rip up most of what you said and start again

(especially, but not limited to, Maximarse)

(...and apologies if I seem like an incoherent ramblist again)

: nmqtpvty034.PNG (146.47 KiB) Viewed 13223 times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 9:11 am

discordantharmony wrote:
Anyway. With your indulgence please........

Do you have homeless people around where you live?

Has it gotten worse (quantity wise) in the last 5 years?

Have you seen or read about any violence towards homeless people in your area and if so do you believe (tm) this has increased in the last few years?

Would you give money to a person on the street if they asked you?

Any other comments you can think of.

Morning DH. I too am now living in a very rural community where it is hard to see obvious signs of homelessness. However, on my last few trips to London I've clearly seen more signs of people living on the streets - sights I've not seen for quite a long while and it's very sad. I was also very shocked by the death of the young woman who was homeless and sleeping in a tent in a west country town (I think it might have been Exeter) a couple of years ago.

I have given money to people on the streets - and I would do so again. I think the Tories plan to remove housing benefit from under 25s is appalling - destined to create more homelessness and danger for vulnerable people.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 9:14 am

Good-morning, friends.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 9:34 am

This is a good piece about living with Autism in the family...I just wonder why a contribution from an American has been selected - within the Autistic community there are many British parents who could've written exactly the same thing...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 81619.html

...and what the actual f***? (Shakes head in absolute disbelief...almost like someone 'recovering' from Alzheimers, but that'd be the NHS in England)...

Francesca Martinez has teamed up with cerebral palsy charity, Bobath Scotland, to launch a high-profile campaign aimed at driving home the message that CP should be viewed as a lifelong condition.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/healt ... ar_twitter

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 9:44 am

DH, when I have money to give, I do. I'm not often asked for money. I was in Manchester recently & gave money away.

I'm musing over the number of years I've lived in California before I moved to Stoke a few years ago. Californians making outdoor grant requests made a kind of art form of appeals for assistance using signs held up discretely though strategically well-placed within view. I willingly parted with money & groceries all the time in the USA. I purchased in bulk nutritious food bars containing good ingredients, not candy bars - full of calories & vitamins hikers & rock climbers packed for food when they're outside. I kept several in my bag & gave those away regularly to many young people on their own. It's incredible for me now to think about that time.

The welfare system in the US is rudimentary & not fit for human beings who regularly experience times no work is available. I didn't experience unemployment while I lived in California. It's an expensive place. If income isn't available, people were in a tough spot unless they'd family to help them.

My spouse & I have noted hidden encampments under large trees in the cemetery we regularly walk in. That's new - within the last few years.

*****edited to add*****

Re-reading my post it sounds as though I'm indicating homelessness in the US is much worse. That's not the case at all. My US University course work included studying homelessness in the US. Let me make one thing clear, the weather won't kill in California, not typically. That's one crucial difference.

Squatting rights have been taken away in the UK during current government's leadership here in the UK. Squatting rights are hundreds of years old. If people weren't able to put a roof over their head in the winter, not enough people would be left alive to work in spring.

The makeshift encampment in the cemetery hidden away is a new thing.
People get hurt outside on their own, there are people who'll hurt them.
I'd hide too.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 9:47 am

Cerebral palsy is a lifelong condition, isn't it?

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 9:50 am

Thanks for the welcome – although I’m a returnee who has passed through occasionally over the last couple of years. I brought hot chocolate, seemed to fit the pristine snow scene outside my window so thought I’d share.

DH
I haven’t seen an increase in homelessness (I live in a small village and haven’t really been out and about much) so I don’t have direct experience of increase in the numbers or in violence against homeless people. I don’t live too far from Stirling, Edinburgh and Glasgow though and have heard about increases in both. Same thing about kindness/cruelty. I have given money to some people and not to others – generally making a judgement on the basis of whether I have any money but sometimes on whether I feel safe doing so. I think you’re right about a microcosm of life in general but I also think that there is a culture of cruelty at the moment that opens up violence in some and makes some behaviours allowable that haven’t been in the past (if you know what I mean).

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 9:54 am

George Eaton @georgeeaton · 29m 29 minutes ago
75% of Labour PPCs oppose Trident renewal - great scoop from @stephenkb on @TheStaggers http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... nt-renewal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 9:55 am

Eurozone blog on the G latest posting booming growth in the UK - the only snag is the uncertainty of the May 2015 General Election. Democracy causing angst.

However....some UK construction firms did warn that uncertainty in the build-up to May’s general election may hit demand.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... 31b23699b0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 9:56 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
discordantharmony wrote:
Anyway. With your indulgence please........

Do you have homeless people around where you live?

Has it gotten worse (quantity wise) in the last 5 years?

Have you seen or read about any violence towards homeless people in your area and if so do you believe (tm) this has increased in the last few years?

Would you give money to a person on the street if they asked you?

Any other comments you can think of.
Morning DH. I too am now living in a very rural community where it is hard to see obvious signs of homelessness. However, on my last few trips to London I've clearly seen more signs of people living on the streets - sights I've not seen for quite a long while and it's very sad. I was also very shocked by the death of the young woman who was homeless and sleeping in a tent in a west country town (I think it might have been Exeter) a couple of years ago.

I have given money to people on the streets - and I would do so again. I think the Tories plan to remove housing benefit from under 25s is appalling - destined to create more homelessness and danger for vulnerable people.

It is appalling, especially when young people already appear to have been disproportionally effected by housing issues. Although I live near Bristol, I don't visit enough to know if there has been an increase in rough sleeping in recent years, but I do know it's a problem that has always been there and has never entirely gone away even at the height of the New Labour boom years. Some people become homeless as a consequence of other issues such as drug addiction or difficulty adjusting to leaving the armed services. What does seem to be new is the idea of sofa-surfing where homelessness is the actual issue, rather than a consequence of another issue, and that does seem to be on the rise where I live. It has been reported in the local press as a growing problem in a nearby town and a local Labour councillor has been particularly active on the issue, trying to raise awareness and opposing cuts to local youth services. This seems to affect young people more than older people, young people who have social networks, contact with local council services, are sometimes even working or studying, but who are simply unable to access stable, affordable housing.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 10:30 am

I live in a rural area so don't see homeless people regularly.

Nearest town is Middlesbrough and I don't see any there either. The impression I have is that the council are still able to deal with it.

The only city I visit regularly is Edinburgh and there are clearly people living on the streets there and I would say it's increased in recent years.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 10:49 am

Good morning.

Further to events yesterday, I want to apologise to those who were offended by some of my remarks.
However - I do not apologise for the content of my posts; just the way in which I expressed them.

It would seem that at least one person was so upset by this that he decided to leave.
I have apologised, but received no response, other than blocking on another forum.

Therefore, it seems best that I leave this forum for good.
It does not sit comfortably with me to be the cause or catalyst for someone leaving.
I don't like upsetting people, but it seems that I have.

HindleA - if you are reading this, feel free to come back.
You won't be bothered by me any more.

Thank you for the chats, the education, and the companionship.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 10:51 am

ephemerid wrote:Good morning.

Further to events yesterday, I want to apologise to those who were offended by some of my remarks.
However - I do not apologise for the content of my posts; just the way in which I expressed them.

It would seem that at least one person was so upset by this that he decided to leave.
I have apologised, but received no response, other than blocking on another forum.

Therefore, it seems best that I leave this forum for good.
It does not sit comfortably with me to be the cause or catalyst for someone leaving.
I don't like upsetting people, but it seems that I have.

HindleA - if you are reading this, feel free to come back.
You won't be bothered by me any more.

Thank you for the chats, the education, and the companionship.

But the rest of us don't want either of you to leave

Please don't....

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 10:55 am

@discordantharmony

I'm in Bracknell in the SE. [near Ascot & Windsor]

I confess I don't know how we're doing regarding the homeless.

Around 2010 I read that Bracknell had only a few homeless, [it was around four I believe] but there was somewhere they could go if they wanted. Since then I've not read any figures, although our Food bank has had a huge increase in applicants, so I would assume there is a rise in people with nowhere to go.
I've never seen anyone sleeping rough or apparently homeless in the sixteen years I've lived here but I believe they're sent to a homeless shelter in Reading. I did read a while back that Reading was being overwhelmed because councils from a wide area were referring them there.

I believe our council sends families needing a roof to bed and breakfast in Slough.

I used to live in Reading. For a while there were a lot of young people begging, but also some anger that there was a lucrative business being run from a house near the town centre which made it difficult to know what to do. On the whole I preferred to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I've always been fairly poor so it was never much, but if they had a dog, rather than money, I'd go to the pet shop and buy them dog food.
I don't know what it's like now.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 10:59 am

Can people just stop flouncing out of here because they don't like what others have written, please?

I genuinely thought this place was better than that

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:00 am

Lonewolfie wrote:This is a good piece about living with Autism in the family...I just wonder why a contribution from an American has been selected - within the Autistic community there are many British parents who could've written exactly the same thing...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 81619.html

...and what the actual f***? (Shakes head in absolute disbelief...almost like someone 'recovering' from Alzheimers, but that'd be the NHS in England)...

Francesca Martinez has teamed up with cerebral palsy charity, Bobath Scotland, to launch a high-profile campaign aimed at driving home the message that CP should be viewed as a lifelong condition.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/healt ... ar_twitter

I believe they only diagnosed/recognised/acknowledged Aspergers a few years ago.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:01 am

ephemerid wrote:Good morning.

Further to events yesterday, I want to apologise to those who were offended by some of my remarks.
However - I do not apologise for the content of my posts; just the way in which I expressed them.

It would seem that at least one person was so upset by this that he decided to leave.
I have apologised, but received no response, other than blocking on another forum.

Therefore, it seems best that I leave this forum for good.
It does not sit comfortably with me to be the cause or catalyst for someone leaving.
I don't like upsetting people, but it seems that I have.

HindleA - if you are reading this, feel free to come back.
You won't be bothered by me any more.

Thank you for the chats, the education, and the companionship.

I primarily visit this forum for links and information. I like the chats (and jaffa cakes!) but would never suggest someone stays against their better judgement as it's not a big deal if they feel their time is better spent doing other things and they should just get on with it without worrying what others will think. Your comments will be missed as they are very informative and insightful, so I hope you'll still be sharing them in other places and will look out for you accordingly elsewhere.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:09 am

Here in Southampton there seems to be quite a lot of homeless people, and not just in the city centre, out in the more suburban areas too. I walk past a couple of derelict houses on my way to work, and I've noticed people sleeping in the gardens there (the houses themselves are all boarded up of course). Also, there's always been somebody selling the Big Issue outside Sainsbury's but now I often see a couple of blokes in sleeping bags sitting in the doorway to the library opposite as well, as well as an increasingly regular "busker" who I suspect may be homeless as well.

I can't say for definate that it's got worse since 2010, since I only moved here properly after this government got in, but I've definately noticed a decline in the city as a whole since I started visiting here back in 2001. Back then I'd never seen such a busy bustling place outside of London, almost every shop seemed to have a card in the window wanting staff, which after growing up in South Wales and then living in Liverpool during the 90's, was really, really noticable. It made that whole north/south divide argument incredibly real for me. Now the city centre is increasingly like a ghost town, dozens of shops are sat empty, there's a whole shopping centre borded up right in the middle of central shopping area, and there are an awful lot of homeless people, every time you go into a car park you'll see one or two, sitting by the doors, hoping someone will give them a bit of change after paying for their ticket.

It increasingly reminds me of Liverpool in the '90's but in a way its much worse, becouse TBH that wasn't really a bad place to be poor in, rents were cheap, living standards were cheap and the council seemed to do its best to try and help, when I was on the dole I had a free lesuire pass that meant you could go swimming or use the gym for nothing in the mornings, when it was empty anyway, and then you could sit in the library reading in the afternoon. I can't imagine a council providing that sort of help nowadays, the papers would be full of it, "how dare these scroungers expect to go swimming when hard working familes are out working, blah blah blah..."

I've never noticed any violence or abuse directed at homeless people here, but then I don't really go out much at night since I had kids, I assume its probably worse then, when there aren't so many people about. I noticed the man outside the library being spoken to by two PCO's last week and I assumed they were going to move him on, but they didn't, they gave him a piece of paper, which I assume had some information on where he could get some help, and then they let him be. I suppose it depends on the individual, even in these increasingly harsh times I think more people are kindly than cruel, though I do worry that the percentages on that slide more every month we fester under this mean spirited, vicious government.

I do try to give money to homeless people now and then, but its totally arbitrary, and tends to simply depend on whether I've got any change (which I increasingly don't, now that I pay for everything by card). I would certainly much rather give money to individual homeless people than to a charity, and I'm always antagonised by those "don't give homeless people money, give it to us instead" type appeals from the likes of Shelter, like they have some kind of moral authority over the people they purporte to help. At least if you give money to an individual you know its going to them, and anyone who is reduced to asking for money on the street clearly needs it, whatever they're individual situation might be. I'd rather do that than help pay for a report from a think tank that the government will just ignore anyway.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:19 am

discordantharmony wrote:
Anyway. With your indulgence please........

Do you have homeless people around where you live?

Has it gotten worse (quantity wise) in the last 5 years?

Have you seen or read about any violence towards homeless people in your area and if so do you believe (tm) this has increased in the last few years?

Would you give money to a person on the street if they asked you?

Any other comments you can think of.

Unheard of in my area, we now have 3 or 4 regulars begging in the small town.
Just before Christmas I stopped to give some money and have a chat with one of them. The young man was apologetic about begging, repeatedly saying he didn't know how he had "come to this". As we chatted he told my daughter he was trying to get the train fair to go to his sister who would look after him over Christmas. I put a hand on his shoulder and realised that under his thin coat he had no jumper, just a tea shirt. The wind and rain were bitter.
I went and bought him a jumper, whilst my daughter went and got him the cash he needed for the train. When we returned and gave the cash and jumper he sobbed. I was deeply ashamed our country could let people slip though the net and onto the street. A passer by told us "don't give them money! it just encourages them!". Kevin, tried to give my daughter the change from his begging cup as the notes she had given him were more than enough to get his ticket. Needless to say she refused. As I've not seen him since and I assume/hope he got to his sister.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:22 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Can people just stop flouncing out of here because they don't like what others have written, please?

I genuinely thought this place was better than that

"Flouncing"?

Not in my case. I have clearly caused offence, and I gave my reasons.

No need for your remark. I thought you were better than that.

That's my lot.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:24 am

ohsocynical wrote: I used to live in Reading. For a while there were a lot of young people begging, but also some anger that there was a lucrative business being run from a house near the town centre which made it difficult to know what to do. On the whole I preferred to give them the benefit of the doubt.

That is, I think, part of the problem (the business, not living in Reading). There has certainly been an increase in begging in Edinburgh (especially during the festival season. However, there are a number of women of, shall we say, Eastern European appearance, who have been reported in the press as being part of an organised group based in Glasgow.
Also, I live a few miles from Edinburgh and from time to time see a couple of beggars getting the bus to West Lothian in the late evening. I doubt whether they spend £7+ on bus fares to sleep rough in a different area.
The point I'm trying to make is that begging and homelessness are not necessarily the same thing, and as you say, it's sometimes difficult to determine who is genuinely in need.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:26 am

I don't care if people "give offence" occasionally, and think that modern society is far too hung up on it.

You are a good person ephe, and so are those on here who have disagreed with you.

I hope - and expect - that you will be back at some point

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:30 am

Can I just remind us all of what it says at the top of the page

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:30 am

Bugger I'm out of date already

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:36 am

On which topic, last night I had a vivid and not terribly nice dream about the Tories winning on May 7. I blame that YouGov poll

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:50 am

ephemerid wrote:Good morning.

Further to events yesterday, I want to apologise to those who were offended by some of my remarks.
However - I do not apologise for the content of my posts; just the way in which I expressed them.

It would seem that at least one person was so upset by this that he decided to leave.
I have apologised, but received no response, other than blocking on another forum.

Therefore, it seems best that I leave this forum for good.
It does not sit comfortably with me to be the cause or catalyst for someone leaving.
I don't like upsetting people, but it seems that I have.

HindleA - if you are reading this, feel free to come back.
You won't be bothered by me any more.

Thank you for the chats, the education, and the companionship.

Please don't go.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 11:53 am

We can work this out.
HindleA, Ephemerid, please don't stay away too long.
I love you both.
We're under pressure.
Tories are scary.
Stay together, please.
We need all of us.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 12:02 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: I used to live in Reading. For a while there were a lot of young people begging, but also some anger that there was a lucrative business being run from a house near the town centre which made it difficult to know what to do. On the whole I preferred to give them the benefit of the doubt.
That is, I think, part of the problem (the business, not living in Reading). There has certainly been an increase in begging in Edinburgh (especially during the festival season. However, there are a number of women of, shall we say, Eastern European appearance, who have been reported in the press as being part of an organised group based in Glasgow.
Also, I live a few miles from Edinburgh and from time to time see a couple of beggars getting the bus to West Lothian in the late evening. I doubt whether they spend £7+ on bus fares to sleep rough in a different area.
The point I'm trying to make is that begging and homelessness are not necessarily the same thing, and as you say, it's sometimes difficult to determine who is genuinely in need.

Anyone may ask me for money or food or other kinds of assistance appropriate from a stranger, a friend I've not yet met. It's important I'm asked simply, without any intimidation. Being asked for money, I'm able to say yes or no. The person asking money from me accepts yes or no. I don't care who they are. Everyone has the right to ask for money, food, employment, shelter, health care as long as they're not intimidating or violent.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 12:34 pm

Lonewolfie wrote:Morftereveninoon

I can't help feeling slightly downhearted here in Hope (just North of Peterborough). It seems Osborne is in fact the 'evil genius' many claim him to be and not just an elitist over-privileged sack of Bullingdon Bullshit - the 'DevoManc' NHS furore has panned out exactly as I suspect he thought it would. No-one talking about HSBC/Empty housing 'pledges'/Rifkind and the mysterious money-funneling Alliance/Maximarse and the IDS-Fraud-Purnell anti-human disability (and illness) denial machine (etc...etc...etc...etc) any more? Quelle f*****g surprise

It also seems that the 'clipped weighted moving average' is indeed a real thing - Cons now starting to show as ahead in more polls and by more percentage points - as they've had a really good 2015 so far (in the 'production of shiny squirrels' department), it's easy to understand how more and more people want to vote for them Allegedly our Westmonster MSM have stated that Miliband is indeed credible (ref: Obornetweets etc), much more effective at PMQs etc, about which they are, of course, 'genuinely' shocked...which then has the effect of increasing the Tory vote? Yup...I believe(TM)

Alternatively, of course, I could go back and have a look at the 'neck and neck' polling for the Indy Ref - they got the 'Ayes' right but underestimated the 'Nos' by 5%ish...and the MSM told us (over and over again) that it was 'far too close to call'

Please don't be downhearted. We need to keep reading about Hope

You are so right about Osborne, planned to the last detail.. sad it seems to have worked and knocked all the tory's bad press out of the window.
Still, Hope lives on here, and I still have that Landslide! Feeling

Today Labour announce their housing policy - I wonder (in hope) if it will get the same coverage as the tory's did yesterday? And the same prim time Newsnight coverage as last nights ?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 12:44 pm

Our analysis of local authority electoral registers across England and Wales, published on 1 December 2014, has found that the new online registration system is working well.

Read our report on 1 December 2014 electoral registers in England and Wales (PDF)
24 February 2015

From the document above the following:

3.17
The decrease in the electorate is likely to be the result of the lack of comprehensive household canvassing in 2014.

Many households were not directly canvassed in 2014 because household enquiry forms (HEFs) were only required to be sent to properties where no electors were registered, where an ERO believed there may still be other people living at the address who were not registered, where there were no entries on the register or where the ERO was not confident in who was resident at a particular address.

This means that home - movers and new electors have not been captured as effectively as they would have been during a typical annual canvass where all households receive a form.

This situation is unique to 2014 and full household canvassing will take place in 2015.

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/f ... gistration

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 12:52 pm

AngryAsWell
Still, Hope lives on here, and I still have that Landslide! Feeling

Yep. Stouthearted.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 12:55 pm

Good morfternoon.

I saw yet another government TV ad yesterday. (About teaching? I can't remember now - I jotted it down but mislaid the piece of paper.) I think that brings the tally (that I'm aware of) to about six. Glad we're so flush.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 12:57 pm

It all seems to be unraveling for the Dodgy Dimwit....so is child abuse a conspiracy or not? (rhetorical)

Teachers, social workers who work with children and councillors could face up to five years in prison if they turn a blind eye to child abuse under proposals to be set out on Tuesday by David Cameron. Coming in the wake of horrific stories of neglect in places such as Rotherham and Oxfordshire, the plan is to be put forward by the prime minister at a Downing Street summit. Cameron will say: “Professionals who fail to protect children will be held properly accountable and council bosses who preside over such catastrophic failure will not see rewards for that failure.”

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... CMP=twt_gu

My bold - what 'rewards'? - is that even English?...and if this is true of local politicians, what about parliamentarians, Dave?...and what changed your mind from this?...

Spinning on the day the Wanless report, into missing Home Office documents said to contain information about powerful people abusing children, was released, Cameron resorted to calling abuse campaigners conspiracy theorists. To do so, he exploited the fact that evidence could not be found within a few weeks to explain just how at least 114 files concerning child abuse went missing. (From 12th Nov 2014)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/will-bl ... 43070.html

...and do you (and the shower of putrid sh1t you call a 'government') back Mandatory Reporting or not?

Education secretary Michael Gove is resisting pressure to make it mandatory for Head Teachers to report allegations of Child Sex abuse (From 8th June 2013)

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/4999/ ... -sex-abuse

...and apropos of nowt much, I'm not going to apologise if this has already been linked...it could with another airing! (IMHO)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... ir-5256249

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:08 pm

What happens when homeless people ask for help? Take our #NoOneTurnedAway quiz to find out: http://bzfd.it/1EtS7sy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:09 pm

http://www.truthasauthority.com/child-a ... ng-puppet/

LAST’ WITH DEVASTATING CRITICISM IN 2014 JUDGE SURVEY IN NZ – INCLUDING THAT SHE IS A ‘PUPPET’

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:16 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:Morftereveninoon

I can't help feeling slightly downhearted here in Hope (just North of Peterborough). It seems Osborne is in fact the 'evil genius' many claim him to be and not just an elitist over-privileged sack of Bullingdon Bullshit - the 'DevoManc' NHS furore has panned out exactly as I suspect he thought it would. No-one talking about HSBC/Empty housing 'pledges'/Rifkind and the mysterious money-funneling Alliance/Maximarse and the IDS-Fraud-Purnell anti-human disability (and illness) denial machine (etc...etc...etc...etc) any more? Quelle f*****g surprise

It also seems that the 'clipped weighted moving average' is indeed a real thing - Cons now starting to show as ahead in more polls and by more percentage points - as they've had a really good 2015 so far (in the 'production of shiny squirrels' department), it's easy to understand how more and more people want to vote for them Allegedly our Westmonster MSM have stated that Miliband is indeed credible (ref: Obornetweets etc), much more effective at PMQs etc, about which they are, of course, 'genuinely' shocked...which then has the effect of increasing the Tory vote? Yup...I believe(TM)

Alternatively, of course, I could go back and have a look at the 'neck and neck' polling for the Indy Ref - they got the 'Ayes' right but underestimated the 'Nos' by 5%ish...and the MSM told us (over and over again) that it was 'far too close to call'
Please don't be downhearted. We need to keep reading about Hope
You are so right about Osborne, planned to the last detail.. sad it seems to have worked and knocked all the tory's bad press out of the window.
Still, Hope lives on here, and I still have that Landslide! Feeling
Today Labour announce their housing policy - I wonder (in hope) if it will get the same coverage as the tory's did yesterday? And the same prim time Newsnight coverage as last nights ?

Don't be daft....it'll be thought through and costed - the Westmonster MSM aren't really geared up for that sort of thing....so it'll be some spurious Shapps-Green-Fox frackwittery about 'they made a mess, they're against aspiration, they're perfectly horrid - d'you see, Mr Journo? That completely and absolutely blows everything the Labour party (boo boo) have ever said (or ever will say) about anything ever...look....over there...shiny bum-faced overlord' (Couldn't resist - in this instance, it's meant to refer to any cabinet member of your choice)

...and don't worry - I don't stay downhearted for long

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:21 pm

Labour's constitutional proposals

http://b.3cdn.net/labouruk/3045a507f6e7 ... 6i6611.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty thin, in my view, more notable for what is not there than for what is. So, no repeal of the Fixed Terms Parliament Act. No single constitutional document. The (previously much heralded) constitutional convention now just about devolution.

The section on devolution (page 10) deliberately conflates devolution of law-making and devolution of administration, something which is disingenuous.

I don't myself support giving 16 year olds the vote, but I can see why it is being proposed.

1997 it is not, but then that perhaps reflects the success of the earlier wave of reforms.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:25 pm

Afternoon.

Thanks for your post Discordant Harmony.

Re your questions:

Yes, I would give money to some who asked me, but admit I may feel intimidated or less repsonsive if the request was made aggressively, or an obvious addiction issue was manifested by the person asking.

Have not noticed any increase in rough sleepers, but am in a very rural area and things may be different in Aberyswyth or Carmarthen.

On a personal note, I was [admittedly self induced] homeless over forty years ago as a fourteen year old when I ran away from home.

It never leaves me, the feeling of total alone-ness, the walking streets day & night and having no money to eat, no pillow to lay my head on.

As a young girl, and one very confused about personal boundaries as a result of abuse by my mother's father, further abuse happened. All I'll say is there seemed to be an awful lot of people who seemed on the look out to misuse a youngster and none of those I had the misfortune to meet where Muslim.

I can remember begging in a shopping centre and when I got a few small coins I'd rush and buy a chocolate biscuit called a T-Bar which were then popular.
The hunger seemed so profound that the notion of saving money up to buy a more substantial meal didn't even enter my head.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:26 pm

Well, a lot of people (myself included) have long thought fixed term parliaments a good idea - it should be 4 years not 5 though.

There is the question of how this would cope with a succession of hung elections, granted. Of course electoral reform (*not* AV) is the answer there

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:31 pm

ephemerid wrote:Good morning.

Further to events yesterday, I want to apologise to those who were offended by some of my remarks.
However - I do not apologise for the content of my posts; just the way in which I expressed them.

It would seem that at least one person was so upset by this that he decided to leave.
I have apologised, but received no response, other than blocking on another forum.

Therefore, it seems best that I leave this forum for good.
It does not sit comfortably with me to be the cause or catalyst for someone leaving.
I don't like upsetting people, but it seems that I have.

HindleA - if you are reading this, feel free to come back.
You won't be bothered by me any more.

Thank you for the chats, the education, and the companionship.

@ephe, please don't go! It's bad enough losing either of you, let alone both. These past few days have been seriously difficult, in many ways. None of us can know the effect our words might have on others, when someone might take a particular phrase as being pointed at them when it's a general comment, and I'm sure we've all said something that's accidentally stung someone else in a sensitive spot. We can't know when someone has got something major going on in their life that might make particular words particularly painful, unless they tell us – and even then we can all still say the wrong thing.

We don't want to lose either of you, so please re-consider and maybe take some time out.

I'll miss you horribly if you go for good. I'd have to do my own research, for one thing

Love

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:33 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Labour's constitutional proposals

http://b.3cdn.net/labouruk/3045a507f6e7 ... 6i6611.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty thin, in my view, more notable for what is not there than for what is. So, no repeal of the Fixed Terms Parliament Act. No single constitutional document. The (previously much heralded) constitutional convention now just about devolution.

The section on devolution (page 10) deliberately conflates devolution of law-making and devolution of administration, something which is disingenuous.

I don't myself support giving 16 year olds the vote, but I can see why it is being proposed.

1997 it is not, but then that perhaps reflects the success of the earlier wave of reforms.

I don't agree, I think this is pretty radical.

Create a Senate of the Nations and Regions
We will replace the House of Lords with an elected Senate that is representative of the nations and regions of the UK. We will remove the remaining hereditary peers and ensure that the Senate is a forum for regional representation.

(Thanks for posting this by the way - one I'd missed)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:33 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Labour's constitutional proposals

http://b.3cdn.net/labouruk/3045a507f6e7 ... 6i6611.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pretty thin, in my view, more notable for what is not there than for what is. So, no repeal of the Fixed Terms Parliament Act. No single constitutional document. The (previously much heralded) constitutional convention now just about devolution.

The section on devolution (page 10) deliberately conflates devolution of law-making and devolution of administration, something which is disingenuous.

I don't myself support giving 16 year olds the vote, but I can see why it is being proposed.

1997 it is not, but then that perhaps reflects the success of the earlier wave of reforms.

Pretty thin?

Vacuous was the word you used over on AS...you are SpellingMistake I assume?

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:36 pm

discordantharmony wrote:Hello and good morning UN ET AL ........

Well this all pretty much started off really as just a simple question I was going to ask Ernst via PM last night about homelessness in Bury. See I might have mentioned before that I live in Manchester and you know I’ve been homeless. I was just very concerned that you would all maybe not be particularly interested in the questions that I posed, not being really your typical politics type subject you might say. Needless to say I neither PM’d nor posted it last night due to a heavy dose of procrastination

However having given it a bit of thought overnight perhaps I should pose the questions to all of you and maybe get an overall UK picture of where your perceptions regarding homelessness is in your particular area.

What I certainly do not want to do is come across as someone that is involved in a game of ‘Homeless Top Trumps’. Yes I have been homeless but in the great scheme of things my months living and sleeping on the streets are nothing to what some of these guys have endured. Believe me all the problems normal people comment about BTL on some blogs are spoken verbatim on the streets among the homeless. It’s just a matter of degree I guess.

Anyway. With your indulgence please........

Do you have homeless people around where you live?

Has it gotten worse (quantity wise) in the last 5 years?

Have you seen or read about any violence towards homeless people in your area and if so do you believe (tm) this has increased in the last few years?

Would you give money to a person on the street if they asked you?

Any other comments you can think of.

I have witnessed true evil and true kindness whilst I was on the streets. I have had people think it’s funny to piss on me whilst I have been asleep behind shops at 3am in the morning when they are just coming out of a night club or maybe just give me a good kicking for the terrible crime of not having a roof over my head and conversely once the couple who took me to their house and let me shower, give me a change of clothes, eat and sleep on their sofa for a few days over what was to be the last Christmas that I spent on the streets. In a lot of ways it is a microcosm of life in general.

I’m not very good at writing things down so I hope this hasn’t come across as too garbled and nonsensical.

Anyway, onward and upwards

Thanks for the post - never forget: poverty is political.

In answer, I'd say yes, there's more homeless people in our borough, and certainly in Manchester, as you know only too well. According to Shelter, in London in 2007/08 there were 3017 rough sleepers - in 2012/13 that stood at 6437, I can't imagine it'll have dropped any since.

Homeless households in the NW in 2012/13 numbered just over 7900, and in Britain, a family becomes homeless every 11 minutes.

Yes, I do give to people begging, and yes, I would guess that homeless people are now subject to increased violence - we live in a time where many people seem to have discarded compassion as a worthless emotion, along with generosity and empathy.

It is up to us to show the way by example, and I'm pleased to be able to tell you , by way of example, that our council (Labour run) has made no-one homeless because of the bedroom tax. I'm proud of that and look forward to the day when that crappy piece of spite is consigned to the bin where it deserves to be.

EDIT: whoops! added 'every 11 minutes' otherwise the sentence makes as much sense as Jabba talking about local government.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:36 pm

4 years is obviously better. It is only 5 because the coalition calculated that they needed 5 in order to distance the election from the cuts made in the early years of the Parliament. It is sad that Labour makes no mention of repeal or amendment.

The devolution stuff is very thin. If (as I expect) Labour is in power after May with SNP support it will need a much better answer than that. I suppose the 'constitutional convention' may give some breathing space.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 03 Mar, 2015 1:36 pm

Kathy retweeted
Jim AK ‏@jamesak47 1 hr1 hour ago
"Cameron: jail those who ignore child abuse". Wait for unintended consequenses from malicious rumour reporting. #CSAinquiry #bbcdp #wato

So does that include MPs who are even as I write keeping quiet and/or covering up?