Thursday 5th.March 2015.

Post by **adam** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 10:42 am

gilsey wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: This is a claim that will prove true or false:

Miliband will not debate with the other leaders without Cameron also being present.
I say he will, and if you were in this room I'd put a fiver on it.

Yeah - I very strongly suspect that Cameron and Crosby are tying to find stumbling blocks but that from here on in Miliband will turn up to the opening of an envelope if the broadcasters suggest it. Saying no to anything would hand Cameron a way out and that's not going to happen.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 10:42 am

adam wrote:This is from a few days ago, I know, but a thought on another appallingly useless idea about dealing with abuse and its aftermath, by criminalising those who fail to report suspected abuse.

This is presumably aimed at doctors/teachers/social workers/councillors failing to deal with the kind of big public (and completely, unbelievably awful) allegations a la Rotherham and Oxford.

But despite these high profile (and completely, unbelievably awful) big public cases, child abuse is something that overwhelmingly happens in the home and within extended families and friends, and this idea will actually criminalise families and friends - older and younger siblings, cousins, mothers and aunts particularly because the abusers are overwhelmingly male.

It's one more 'we must be seen to be doing something, this is something, let's do this' / No Jerk Like A Knee Jerk response that hasn't been thought through at all.

Did Dave include law enforcement in his list of people to punish criminally for failing to protect, report, investigate, prevent people getting abused?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 10:49 am

refitman wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:And I am still wondering if the possibility of Clegg replacing Cameron in the 1 to 1 will be floated?

I am rather surprised at SH's spin here, I thought Ed couldn't be clearer - he wants the debates. Period.
Ashdown mentioned it on Today, as it's "defending the government".

From a LibDem point of view that would be daft at a time they are trying to distance themselves from the tory's.
I still think public Q&A with Ed is the best way forward. Thought of that would scare the pants off Lyndon

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 10:52 am

It's no good Hugo.
When I say that Miliband has said a thing, especially if it is in parentheses, it is not a "claim" - it is a direct quote.
As in "Bring it on", or "Any time, any place, anywhere".
Your nonsense doesn't work at the G and it doesn't work here either.

Whatever.

Last time, 22,000,000 people watched the debates. Twenty-two Million. That's half the over-18 population.
It may be that, as these were the first, those high ratings may not be repeated - but I think they will. I think there is an appetite for them.

The STV Scottish Referendum debates were not broadcast across the UK, because STV refused to allow the BBC to show it live.
The first debate attracted 920,000 viewers.
STV decided, under pressure, to live-stream it on STV-player; the system broke down due to unprecedented demand.

The longer Cameron plays these games, the more this is in the headlines, the more people will want to know why he is refusing the head-to-head.
He has managed to get the broadcasters to change the format and the parties, constantly dangling the carrot of his attendance if.....
They've done what he wants, then he quibbled about the DUP and the timing; and now he has made his "final offer".

The sheer arrogance of the man beggars belief. He has treated Ofcom, the broadcasters, the other parties, with utter contempt.
Now his nasty little minion Oliver is blaming the broadcasters for failing to negotiate when it was the Tories who failed to turn up for talks.
How DARE he "offer" his little concession?
It's not his right to make any offers at all, let alone pretend he's making a final one thus implying he has made several when precisely the reverse is what's happened. As the record shows.

I really hope the broadcasters are so incensed by this high-handed hubris that they say sod it, we're just going to do it.
I hope they empty chair him.
This behaviour from the man who occupies the highest political office in the land is absolutely disgraceful.
How the rest of the world must laugh at us.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 10:55 am

SpinningHugo wrote:AngryAsWell

Read that quote again. it just does not say that Miliband will debate with the other leaders if Cameron is not there. The reason Campbell was put up on radio4 today, instead of an official spokesperson, was so that that question did not have to be answered.

This is a claim that will prove true or false:

Miliband will not debate with the other leaders without Cameron also being present.

To be clear, I don't think that is cowardice. It is sensible tactical calculation.

These debates are part of the Labour "long term election plan" they are the planned chance for EdM to put himself forward without media spin.
He will do them.
I take your point on the belittling aspect, but a) don't agree that's it would be harmful to EdM and b) not being at a debate is much more harmful to Cameron who is already facing criticism for being undemocratic for having given the public an "ultimatum" (or whatever the word has ben used)

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 10:56 am

Some good news.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 87287.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ed Miliband 'surges in London election battle as support for Greens slips'
Exclusive poll reveals Labour is enjoying its strongest lead since last May

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 10:57 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:You are over-thinking this massively, SH.

Cameron is *scared* of debating in an equal format, without 300 baying mindless yobs behind him.

It really is THAT simple - sometimes Occam's Razor applies in politics just as much as other things.

Just suppose Cameron grew some and went head to head with Miliband.

I call him a silver tongued charmer. Mr Ohso says he's a bullshitter of the first order which is fine and dandy when he's sitting on the edge of a desk or table with his coat off and his sleeves pushed up...Words like 'I/we care passionately about' roll off his tongue but they aren't worth the spit it took to get them out.

Just off the top of my head, how is he going to find an answer for Coulson & Green: Leveson: Selling PO off cheap ditto EuroStar.
How is he going to spin the huge rise in the homeless, hungry & food banks caused by IDS mammoth social cleansing programme at DWP.
His/their callousness towards the disabled and vulnerable.
What about low pay, Workfare, Zero hours, rise in over fifty self employed and low paid part-timers.
Can he justify May's cock ups in the Home Office, Grayling's regarding the law & Gove's in Education?
Can he explain concisely and clearly what he's done to rein in the banks, clean up lobbying and sort out the Inland Revenue? Tax evasion and avoiding.
Privatising as much as he can of the Probation service, prisons and of course the NHS.
Not to mention the economy.

The list goes on and on.

If Cameron is forced to face Ed, it'll be like a beetle being squashed by a sledgehammer. But he won't. I read this morning the verdict is, he'll lose more votes by having to explain his and his governments actions than if he chickens out.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:05 am

And if I were facing him the first thing I'd say is:

Jealous; scroungers; dog end voters; plebs; Lidl people; stock. Why should I vote for you when your party has such obvious contempt for me?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:12 am

AngryAsWell wrote:
refitman wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:And I am still wondering if the possibility of Clegg replacing Cameron in the 1 to 1 will be floated?

I am rather surprised at SH's spin here, I thought Ed couldn't be clearer - he wants the debates. Period.
Ashdown mentioned it on Today, as it's "defending the government".
From a LibDem point of view that would be daft at a time they are trying to distance themselves from the tory's.
I still think public Q&A with Ed is the best way forward. Thought of that would scare the pants off Lyndon

And anyway. How is Clegg going to stand up and defend his governments record, when his party is electioneering and saying they'll don't agree with and will do the opposite of what they've been supporting and voting for, for the last five years. If you see what I mean...

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:15 am

Debate phobia shows Cameron is reluctant to even talk the talk
Prime minister’s gamble that being called a coward is better than actually facing Ed Miliband may be a gross miscalculation
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-miliband" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:16 am

ohsocynical wrote:And if I were facing him the first thing I'd say is:

Jealous; scroungers; dog end voters; plebs; Lidl people; stock. Why should I vote for you when your party has such obvious contempt for me?

And what really, really gets on my tits, is you just know that they sit around their dining tables and snigger like little schoolboys when one of them comes up with the term Lidl people.

The casual contempt they hold us in, is more than my flesh and blood can stand.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:24 am

House hunters with a mortgage struggling to buy new Reading town centre properties due to them being sold off-plan

Developers responsible for the numerous housing developments popping up in Reading town centre are selling off-plan to cash buyers. This means many properties are being snapped up by buy-to-let investors. First time buyers who have scrimped and saved their deposit and managed to get a mortgage still can not buy a home locally.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/readin ... uy-8758654

So much for Osborne's helping first time buyers.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:30 am

Of course Miliband wants the debates so that he can stand next to someone who looks Prime Ministerial on an equal footing. That's because the British people will admire anyone standing near Cameron, obvs.

They will see him in the same room as the mighty Dave and, full of bitter envy at his luck and of astonished wonder at the gracious presence, will decide to vote Conservative. Or something like that anyway.

That's the sort of in-depth, pin-point analysis we've been missing round here.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:31 am

Lib Dem newsletter 'cock-up' offends three primary schools

Liberal Democrat councillor Royce Longton and Wokingham parliamentary candidate Clive Jones apologise for their Focus newsletter

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/readin ... ds-8766908" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:31 am

Morning all.

I'm not so sure that Clegg stepping in as super sub (in his own mind) is actually a bad thing. Firstly it demonstrates to the electorate that Cameron is too scared and arrogant to face Miliband; secondly, if Clegg was reduced to a rabbit in the headlights by TLL's Alex Brooker, how would he survive a forensic dismantling of the Coalition's record by a Miliband unfettered by the conventions of the House?

Hugo, nice to see you keeping to your usual ~~high~~ standards. Do you genuinely think that there is any leader on that proposed panel of seven who would trouble Miliband in the slightest? The main so-called threats are Bennett, Clegg and Farage; Bennett has shown she isn't up to the job (and Lucas trying to grab the gig showed the Greens already knew that, Clegg I've already discussed and Farage is a one trick pony with delusions of grandeur - the fact that he has forgotten his USP over the past week or so leaves him wide open. No threats there.

And keep banging on about Ed's personal ratings if it keeps you happy, doubt he would care & I certainly don't; as I recall Thatcher was similarly ill-thought of, and I believe she went on to do quite well.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:40 am

Do you genuinely think that there is any leader on that proposed panel of seven who would trouble Miliband in the slightest?

I don't know. I thought (and think) Farage is a buffoon and that Clegg would get a useful uplift from debating with him last year, but I was wrong. Farage stuffed him. I wouldn't want to make any predictions about how the debates would go (other than that Bennett would be useless).

I do however state that Miliband will not debate with other leaders without Cameron. Nothing to do with his being scared or thinking he might lose. Rather it is because he won't want to give them equal standing.

Everyone clearly disagrees with me. As another popular figure on the Guardian's pages says, we will see.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:43 am

mikems wrote:Of course Miliband wants the debates so that he can stand next to someone who looks Prime Ministerial on an equal footing. That's because the British people will admire anyone standing near Cameron, obvs.

They will see him in the same room as the mighty Dave and, full of bitter envy at his luck and of astonished wonder at the gracious presence, will decide to vote Conservative. Or something like that anyway.

That's the sort of in-depth, pin-point analysis we've been missing round here.

You are Nick Robinson and I claim my £5.

Post by **adam** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:47 am

SpinningHugo wrote: I do however state that Miliband will not debate with other leaders without Cameron. Nothing to do with his being scared or thinking he might lose. Rather it is because he won't want to give them equal standing.

I agree that is what he and Labour's strategists might well think, but it won't be how they act because it would be a gift to Cameron to do so - Miliband says no and virtually all of the press suddenly runs that as the big issue. It won't happen.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:49 am

If Cameron won't do the all leaders debate, Miliband will be even more keen to do them to highlight that fact. If you think the British people will see Dave's absence as a problem for Miliband, you don't understand the British people.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:52 am

SpinningHugo wrote: I don't know. I thought (and think) Farage is a buffoon and that Clegg would get a useful uplift from debating with him last year, but I was wrong. Farage stuffed him.

Of course he did, because Clegg is not as clever as he thinks he is and because those debates were specifically about a topic that worked to Farage's 'strengths'; but Clegg's performances on The Last Leg and Meet The Leaders showed his inadequacies, and Farage will be out of his comfort zone this time - leaving aside, as I have already mentioned, the shifting in his positions over the past couple of weeks.

SpinningHugo wrote:I do however state that Miliband will not debate with other leaders without Cameron. Nothing to do with his being scared or thinking he might lose. Rather it is because he won't want to give them equal standing.

"Nothing to do with him being scared or thinking he might lose" as it is apparent that neither of those things are true. And, to be frank, it isn't a case of giving them equal standing because none of them are his equal; he gets on that stage with the other 5 and the empty chair and he will come across as exactly what he is, a Prime Minister in waiting.

You aren't even trying Hugo. Think I'll go watch some daytime TV, more productive than answering you.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:01 pm

Labour BIS Team ‏@LabourBIS 41 mins41 minutes ago

Govt figures show that two-thirds of apprentices were already working for their employer when they started their apprenticeship @FT

I knew the figures for this LibDem scam were high, but this is ridiculous.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:06 pm

TV debates: Ed Miliband to debate himself if David Cameron continues to 'run scared'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 87544.html#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And after the Lib Dem chair Lord Ashdown urged broadcasters to “empty-chair” the Prime Minister, Labour sources suggested they would be happy for Mr Miliband to instead be subjected to an hour-long grilling by Jeremy Paxman.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:09 pm

A Sky News poll found 79% of people would be less likely to vote for a party leader who refused to take part in a debate.
http://news.sky.com/story/1439224/milib ... rom-public" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(just checking news round ups on this)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:26 pm

The Guardian ‏@guardian 16s16 seconds ago
Katharine Viner wins staff ballot for Guardian editor http://trib.al/PfmGcMc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:27 pm

Oh yes!

http://news.sky.com/story/1439224/milib ... rom-public" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

miliband-accuses-pm-of-cowering-from-public

'Cowering' what a great, great choice of word.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:34 pm

Miliband on the debates

http://gu.com/p/46bnn/stw#block-54f843a ... 0c5f4a0a1d

He won't be attending any debates with other leaders if Cameron is not there. Clear if you read it properly.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:40 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Miliband on the debates

http://gu.com/p/46bnn/stw#block-54f843a ... 0c5f4a0a1d

He won't be attending any debates with other leaders if Cameron is not there. Clear if you read it properly.

I want these debates, I want them to happen.

- Ed Miliband

Clear as a bell.
If you read it properly.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:41 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Miliband on the debates

http://gu.com/p/46bnn/stw#block-54f843a ... 0c5f4a0a1d

He won't be attending any debates with other leaders if Cameron is not there. Clear if you read it properly.

You're obviously a better reader than I am.

We want the seven-way debate to happen and we have always said that. We also need the two-way debate. We want these debates to happen. We will be part of them. We want to see what the broadcasters say. But I want these debates, I want them to happen.

Miliband suggests he will attend all debates, even if Cameron does not. (Andrew Sparrow, Guardian)

Post by **refitman** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:42 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Miliband on the debates

http://gu.com/p/46bnn/stw#block-54f843a ... 0c5f4a0a1d

He won't be attending any debates with other leaders if Cameron is not there. Clear if you read it properly.

Here are the quotes:

The British public deserve this debate. I will debate him, any time, any place, anywhere. He should stop ducking and weaving and he should name the date.

We have always said we will do the seven-way debate, and when it is is a matter for the broadcasters. But we also need the debate between me and David Cameron. He has said repeatedly that he wants that debate to happen. He said yesterday he did not want it on April 30, he wanted it earlier. I’ve said to him I’ll do it any time, any place, anywhere. He should just name the date. But what I think the public will not tolerate is a prime minister who is running away from them, running away from his record and running away from the face to face debate with me that he said he wanted and that the public deserve.

We want the seven-way debate to happen and we have always said that. We also need the two-way debate. We want these debates to happen. We will be part of them. We want to see what the broadcasters say. But I want these debates, I want them to happen.

Please show me exactly where he says he won't debate if Cameron doesn't turn up no 'reading between the lines', the exact words.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:43 pm

@ citizenJA

Oh - snap.

Good morfternoon, everyone.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:45 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Miliband on the debates

http://gu.com/p/46bnn/stw#block-54f843a ... 0c5f4a0a1d

He won't be attending any debates with other leaders if Cameron is not there. Clear if you read it properly.

That's not what's said, but why is this so important to you Hugo? I'm not understanding why you seem so desperate to "prove" EdM won't do the debates?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:45 pm

there are two get outs. Miliband says he wants

(i) a head to head debate

and

(ii) a seven way debate

Without Cameron, there will be neither.

So no, he won't be attending any debates with other leaders if Cameron is not present.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:46 pm

His words seem clear to me too - AS's suggestion that citing a "seven way" debate means he might not want to attend if Cameron doesn't, really does seem to be stretching semantic quibbling to breaking point. As for his question of what EM might have to gain by taking part if Dave is absent - surely he would be confident of appearing "Prime Ministerial" (whatever the hell that means) compared to most if not all of the others there?

And as others have already said, Miliband has no interest in giving the PM any wriggle room on this.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:46 pm

@cJA & @ PF

Double-snap!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:47 pm

Looks like we got ourselves a reader!

I think it only serves to raise the tone.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:51 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:there are two get outs. Miliband says he wants

(i) a head to head debate

and

(ii) a seven way debate

Without Cameron, there will be neither.

So no, he won't be attending any debates with other leaders if Cameron is not present.

With (genuine) respect, this is ludicrously overloaded spin on utterly microscopic evidence.

Why this silly obsession with using the phrase "seven way"? That is what he - and everybody else except Cameron - WANTS.

That does not - repeat, NOT - mean he is in any way shape or form saying, or even implying, that he won't attend if Cameron doesn't.

That is solely your interpretation - prompted in large part, I regret to say, by your long standing dislike of EM.

Miliband knows the debates are his last best chance to alter many people's perceptions of him for the better.

He isn't going to give up on that lightly.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:56 pm

David Cameron's only line of attack\defence re a "no-show" on his part is "There's no show without Punch". Not at all arrogant, and extremely endearing. If you read between the lines.

Edited

I added a comma (after having read my post)

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 12:59 pm

Just give it up, Hugo.

You're making a tit of yourself now.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:02 pm

ephemerid wrote:Just give it up, Hugo.

You're making a tit of yourself now.

As ever.

In other news .....

My views about Owen Jones are no secret, but fair play to Paloma Faith for this. Ditzy she ain't.

http://now-here-this.timeout.com/2015/0 ... wen-jones/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:05 pm

prompted in large part, I regret to say, by your long standing dislike of EM.

If I thought he were a fool, then I would expect him to debate Farage et al with no Cameron. It would be foolish to give equal standing, time and credibility to the various 'Westminster outsiders' (and no mark Clegg) he would be ranged against.

It is because I think more highly of him than that that I am sure that no such debates will take place. Labour just isn't that desperate at this point.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:06 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
prompted in large part, I regret to say, by your long standing dislike of EM.
If I thought he were a fool, then I would expect him to debate Farage et al with no Cameron. It would be foolish to give equal standing, time and credibility to the various 'Westminster outsiders' (and no mark Clegg) he would be ranged against.

It is because I think more highly of him than that that I am sure that no such debates will take place. Labour just isn't that desperate at this point.

Why do you have such a low opinion of him ?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:08 pm

David Cameron has insisted he has not put hurdles in the way of televised election debates, insisting he is "unblocking the log jam" in the negotiations.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:11 pm

Well, I disagree there too Hugo. I maintain that it shouldn't be difficult to outshine most of that lot given a fairly level playing field (arguably, the one he should be most "worried" about is Sturgeon - but Labour has little to lose in Scotland right now, and he might just make some voters there think better of him)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:12 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
David Cameron has insisted he has not put hurdles in the way of televised election debates, insisting he is "unblocking the log jam" in the negotiations.

Did you notice the Nigel Farage style laugh he adopted (assuming you saw the same interview clip as I did)?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:15 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
prompted in large part, I regret to say, by your long standing dislike of EM.
If I thought he were a fool, then I would expect him to debate Farage et al with no Cameron. It would be foolish to give equal standing, time and credibility to the various 'Westminster outsiders' (and no mark Clegg) he would be ranged against.

It is because I think more highly of him than that that I am sure that no such debates will take place. Labour just isn't that desperate at this point.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:17 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
The 'tactical reason' Cameron has for not debating is not 'being on an equal footing' with Miliband, it is that he doesn't think he will do well.
No doubt I'll be denounced as a Tory (again) for saying this but I don't think that is true. Cameron's reasons are twofold

First, the same reason Prime Ministers always have. They don't want to put the opponent on an equal footing. I am old enough to remember Thatcher refusing to debate Kinnock (Blair of course always refused, and the Tories sent a chicken round to follow him.)

Second, Miliband's personal poll ratings are terrible. So bad that they just could not get worse. That means that even a moderately competent performance for Miliband is a win. So, Cameron doesn't want to give him the opportunity.

I can, I promise you, give you a lengthy list of reasons why I think this government needs to be removed. But looked at from a purely technical skill as a politician perspective, Cameron is good at his job. He has been the leader of his party for nearly ten years now (Blair led Labour for 13). By that point, people are usually sick of the sight of a leader. Yet he still polls well, well ahead of his party. If he goes after the 7th and is replaced by either May or Johnson, the Tories will take a serious popularity hit. (Johnson is superficially popular, but is basically an idiot with an amusing turn of phrase).

It may be that this says something bad about our country, that we accept as PM this superficial Eton posh boy, but we live in the world we live in.

Labour has to make the most of calling Cameron a coward, and on this the media will be onside as they want the debate too. But it is cold calculation on the Tory's part, the same calculation that will mean Miliband doesn't debate Farage and Clegg without Cameron in there as well.

I think you're wrong, Hugo. Miliband has given the same answer all the way through since this year's debates were first mooted by the broadcasters. His answer has always been that, yes, he will debate with whomever the broadcasters invite on whatever date, or dates, the broadcasters set.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:25 pm

In other news......a Member of Parliament who is actually doing his job!

Shocking, I know.

Julian Huppert, who is a LibDem but never mind, has been with a constituent today.

I quote from his Twitter feed -
"Plan today was to join a constituent through their Work Capability Assessment - I'd been invited to see the realities. But it failed"
"The appointment was cancelled as we were there, because there was no wheelchair-accessible room available for the assessment"
"I mean, why would an organisation assessing disabled people need multiple wheelchair-accessible rooms? Distinctly unimpressed"
From the constituent -
"Maximus have right royally screwed me over. So glad Julian Huppert was here to witness what happened"
"He also saw another disabled person struggling when being forced to wait 30+ mins extra than his appt, in considerable pain"
(There is more, but it's a bit too personal to reproduce here without permission)

Huppert has often impressed me; and I think he might be in the wrong party! He is the sort of LibDem I thought I was voting for......

This is what happened under Atos all the time. It seems it is now happening with Maximus too.
But then Maximus is using the same staff, assessment centres, and system as Atos; Maximus in the UK has the same chiefs as Atos despite their many efforts to disguise it; the 4 months they have had to prepare have clearly made no difference.

I have suggested to Julian Huppert that he contacts Sue Marsh. She will sort out his constituents' "customer journey" no doubt.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:28 pm

Iain Dale ‏@IainDale 39m39 minutes ago
Blogpost: Imagine that if it was @Ed_Miliband, not @David_Cameron who had refused to take part in election debates http://iaindale.com/posts/2015/03/05/co ... n-campaign" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:35 pm

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 1:37 pm

Tory trolls are desperate to distract attention from Cameron's refusal of a head to head debate. Hence the frantic nonsense, the incessant tedious point making, the absurd interpretations and assertions...all refusing to look directly at that central fact.

Sad it has come to that here. I hope it won't be tolerated for long.