Monday 9th March 2015

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 6:33 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 6:37 pm

yahyah wrote:
All the same these Lib Dems.
My MP, when I asked him via email whether he supported Orange Book Liberalism claimed he had never heard of it. Yeah, right.

This is good on the Orange Book, by a bunch of left wing liberals who are worth reading generally.

http://liberator-magazine.blogspot.co.u ... alism.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sadly, Simon Titley died recently.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 6:37 pm

yahyah wrote:
daydreamer wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: Oh, FFS. 'Be very ashamed of yourselves'? How dare you?

Edit, OK, to explain, though I don't think I should have to. His children's names are indicative of his privilege - some of the multiple middle names are from aristocratic forebears. They are indicative if his arrogance - more of the middle names are those of Saints. They are indicative of how out if touch he is - they are Mediaeval saints. And how uncaring - as others pointed out, saddling his own offspring with names that might make them targets for other children, unless of course they spend their lives around people for whom those names aren't terribly unusual, in which case we're back to the privilege.

Furthermore, the original post did make reference to several of Rees-Mogg's more egregious points.
Thanks Robert for making these points.

I seem to have been criticised for merely pointing out, as tactfully as I could, that he had 4 children and not 3, as a couple of previous posters had missed the daughter. I refuse to be ashamed for that.

51A must be under horrendous stress at the moment, so maybe we can cut her some slack ?

She has mentioned previously about her brother having been charged with the killing of their step mother and his court case has been reported in the Welsh press in the last week or so and I believe he is awaiting sentence.

If you are reading 51A, hope you have some support around you.

Sorry, I wasn't aware.

@51A

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 6:38 pm

These are the other 7 areas of the lake District they are selling
http://www.michael-cl-hodgson.co.uk/lan ... ales/list/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 6:39 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
daydreamer wrote:
Willow904 wrote: I find it interesting that this has come today alongside a feature on BBC about asbestos in schools:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31793017

It saddens me that the Future Schools programme under Labour that was in some cases replacing old schools with completely new built ones was scrapped and was replaced instead with the willy-nilly spending on free schools that has been used in some cases to convert old buildings which may have asbestos present. We had a great opportunity to make our schools fit for the future and its been thrown away and replaced with old offices without playgrounds in areas with plenty of school places already. Why does anyone think the Tories are competent or good with money? It really is beyond me.
Because it's a lie that's been repeated so many times over the last 40 years (probably longer) that it's now deeply ingrained. Am I right in thinking that overall Labour have performed better on the economy than the Tories? It's certainly no worse.
Simon Wren Lewis, as ever, is good on this.

http://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2014/ ... nt-at.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 6:50 pm

Goodnight, PF

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 6:52 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:These are the other 7 areas of the lake District they are selling
http://www.michael-cl-hodgson.co.uk/lan ... ales/list/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is there nothing they won't sell?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 6:56 pm

pk1 wrote:Trouble 't mill.....

A leading Liberal Democrat grassroots group has said that members are being left in the dark about how the party’s policies would be paid for.

In a briefing ahead of the party’s spring conference in Liverpool this weekend, Liberal Reform described it as “regrettable that even at this final conference before the election, party members are being left in the dark as to how all of these plans are going to be funded”.

“The party is currently saying we want a 60:40 split between cuts and tax increases – that is tax rises of £30bn,” the briefing reads. “It is difficult to see how that can be funded without the basic income tax rate or VAT going up. And that is before the increases in spending to which the party is already committed.”

When asked about the comments at a press conference on Monday, deputy prime minister Nick Clegg said he had not heard of Liberal Reform, despite having written a forward to a major publication by the group in September 2013.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No comment facility enabled, naturally

Liberal Reform are a very rightwing bunch. Nice blog on them, again by the late Simon Titley.

http://liberator-magazine.blogspot.co.u ... ernal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note one of their supporters acting silly BTL then clearing off.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 7:09 pm

Challenge to George Osborne over £70 billion cuts risk to the NHS

Dear George,

Today Labour produced analysis showing that the Conservative Party’s spending plans for the next Parliament will mean £70 billion of cuts.

As I have just received your letter informing me that you will not now be attending Treasury Questions tomorrow, I am instead putting in writing some of my questions on your spending plans.

The Conservative Party has today failed to contest a single point of Labour’s analysis. You have instead chosen to dishonestly claim that your plans will lead to a total £30 billion of cuts when the real figure is more than double this.

Much of Labour’s analysis has been supported today by the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies. Speaking on BBC News, IFS Director Paul Johnson said:

“The reason that Ed Balls has been able to come up with a number like £70 billion-worth of cuts is because if you look at the last Autumn Statement, it does say the Government is looking for a £20-odd billion surplus by the end of the next Parliament. And the Conservatives have said they want £10 billion-worth of tax cuts. You put all of that together and it’s not very difficult to come to a world in which you are looking at £50-60-70 billion of spending cuts over that period.”

Paul Johnson, Director, Institute Fiscal Studies, BBC News, Tuesday 9 March 2015

You will have seen our step-by-step calculation to disprove your spending claims. I would now like to give you a chance to break your silence and confirm that your spending plans will mean £70 billion of cuts, by answering the following questions....

[text of letter]

If you cannot answer, people will draw their own conclusions.

Yours sincerely,

Rt Hon Ed Balls MP
Shadow Chancellor

March 9, 2015 (5:58 pm)

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1131784 ... llion-cuts

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 7:14 pm

daydreamer wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Can they do that? Remove a sign that is on someone's property?
I'm not sure. There are rules regarding adverts but these placards weren't adverts, they were political endorsements. Does this mean a Tory council could just go round and remove Labour party placards because they are in breach of advertising rules? I'm struggling to see the difference between these TTIP signs and other political material. How is opposing TTIP an advert?
Well, it isn't an advert is it. They just want to silence people, take away our right to protest. We're living in a democracy don't you know

Whoops, where's me manners. Evening all.

And it's nothing to do with commercial properties or over hanging signs. Considering they put up Conservative posters in a cemetery they've got a bloody cheek.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 7:16 pm

Dispatches tonight, Channel 4 - 8pm - Benefits Britain Part 2, Universal Credit.

This could be fun.....

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 7:28 pm

ephemerid wrote:New rules on Motability.

Disabled people who qualify for the scheme have to jump through many hoops including the new PIP descriptors to get a grant from the Motability scheme - there is a small cohort of people who lease cars which are extensively adapted so that they are wheelchair accessible and they can be driven whilst the person is still in the wheelchair.

It is expensive to adapt cars to do this, obviously; the Specialised Vehicle Fund was worth about £17 Million in 2012. And 2013, 2014, 2015.
What this amounts to is a real-terms cut; and although the SVF was always quite limited, it's now harder to get a grant than ever.
There are about 300 grants a year, the average grant being about £30,000.

The new rules are that only disabled people who spend a minimum of 12 hours a week either working, in training/education, volunteering, or caring, will be eligible for a grant from the SVF.

Mike Betts, who runs the Motability Operations on behalf of the Motability charity, received bonuses and other payments worth more than a million on top of his annual salary of £500,000 in 2013.

See Disability News Service.

So if you need a specially adapted car that you can drive from your wheelchair so that you can get to the doctor, the hospital, the shopping centre, to visit family, to do any of the everyday activities people usually do but you can't work, train, learn, volunteer, or care for others, for at 12 hours a week, you wo'n't be able to have the only sort of adapted-vehicle you need! Bastard government and bastard massively-overpaid Operations director getting enough in bonuses etc., to fund adaptions for at least some of the people Motability (the Charity!) are supposed to help!!

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 7:43 pm

@PopulusPolls: Lab 33 Con 32

Unweighted: Lab 36 Con 32

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 7:46 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
daydreamer wrote:
Willow904 wrote: I'm not sure. There are rules regarding adverts but these placards weren't adverts, they were political endorsements. Does this mean a Tory council could just go round and remove Labour party placards because they are in breach of advertising rules? I'm struggling to see the difference between these TTIP signs and other political material. How is opposing TTIP an advert?
Well, it isn't an advert is it. They just want to silence people, take away our right to protest. We're living in a democracy don't you know

Whoops, where's me manners. Evening all.
And it's nothing to do with commercial properties or over hanging signs. Considering they put up Conservative posters in a cemetery they've got a bloody cheek.

Exit, pursued by a bear (or a group of irate FTNers - apologies to Shakespeare)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 7:48 pm

Gove's "no excuses" culture.

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/educ ... -1-7146319" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

New chairman of governors, Ian Parker, said: “We are excited about the opportunity to work with new governors in taking Grindon Hall forward and helping our pupils develop and achieve even better results.”

Ian Parker formerly of Durham Free School.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 7:57 pm

@51A
Thinking of you, I'm not good with words so can I just give you a supportive hug?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 8:15 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:@51A
Thinking of you, I'm not good with words so can I just give you a supportive hug?

And from me, too

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 8:19 pm

51A

Are you okay?
Let me know if I can help.

love
JA

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 8:36 pm

More Gove genius.

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/schools-cannot ... ys-report/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The cross-party group of MPs said schools could not be trusted to give careers advice which was aligned to its pupils’ interests.

He put the careers advice there.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 8:42 pm

Well Dispatches was fun - Universal Credit is a complete mess.

Show and I were discussing what you would call someone who can hold two opposing beliefs simultaneously and not feel conflicted.
Cognitive dissonance is when you DO feel internal conflict when holding toe opposing beliefs.
We settled for psychopathy.
Nothing else seems to fit.....

51A - forgive me for my flippancy. I get like that sometimes. And I still can't help but laugh at Rees-Mogg.
I hope you are as OK as the circs allow.
Sent a PM.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 8:43 pm

http://schoolsimprovement.net/educating ... cse-grades" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Mirror is reporting that Thornhill Academy, the school made famous in Education Yorkshire, has been told it requires improvement after just 17% of its pupils sitting GCSEs gained five A*-C grades including maths and English*…

Er...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyy ... n-reforms/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Educating Yorkshire, a new fly-on-the-wall documentary series on Channel 4 from the same people that brought us Educating Essex, is a great advertisement for Michael Gove's education reforms.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 8:45 pm

ONS disclosure of data collection & report documentation for wages.
I like this about the ONS...they put their cards on the table...
No self-employed people are included in these statistics!
Young people earning less than adult minimum wage & apprentices aren't included!
Incredible what's not included in these figures & it's damned bad enough looking through the years.
Know this - wages have gone no where for most people - tiny, tiny increments if not the big doughnut or negative wage growth since 2010.
Positive percentage changes miniscule.
In 1999 until 2010 the wage growth was growing 3-4% at the very least according to this data.

Sheet 1: Notes
Guide to results from the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE)

The information below is provided to help users understand the estimates from the Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE). It gives guidance on the meanings, coverage and quality of the statistics. More detailed information relating to individual results tables can be found in the ASHE table guide, which is available on the results page.

Key points to note:
1. Estimates vary in quality, mainly reflecting the size of the samples. See the 'quality measures' section below for more information.
2. For every table showing estimates of earnings or hours, we also publish a corresponding table which provides quality information about those estimates. The quality tables are titled 'Coefficients of variation'.
3. Figures for numbers of jobs are not reliable estimates. See the 'job counts' section below for more information.

Mean - the mean is a measure of the average which is derived by summing the values for a given sample, and then dividing the sum by the number of observations (i.e. jobs) in the sample. In earnings distributions, the mean can be disproportionately influenced by a relatively small number of high-paying jobs.

Median - the median is the value below which 50% of jobs fall. It is ONS's preferred measure of average earnings as it is less affected by a relatively small number of very high earners and the skewed distribution of earnings. It therefore gives a better indication of typical pay than the mean.

Percentiles - estimates are provided for selected percentiles in the distribution. Percentiles mark the values below which certain proportions of jobs fall. For example, the 20th percentile is the value below which 20% of jobs fall.

Job counts
Indicative counts for the number of jobs are provided alongside all estimates. These are intended to provide a broad idea of the numbers of employee jobs but they should not be considered accurate estimates. Caution should be applied when using these numbers.

Coverage and timeliness
ASHE covers employee jobs in the United Kingdom. It does not cover the self-employed, nor does it cover employees not paid during the reference period.
Hourly and weekly estimates are provided for the pay period that included a specified date in April. They relate to employees on adult rates of pay, whose earnings for the survey pay period were not affected by absence.
Annual estimates are provided for the tax year that ended on 5th April in the reference year. They relate to employees on adult rates of pay who have been in the same job for more than a year.
ASHE is based on a 1% sample of jobs taken from HM Revenue and Customs' Pay As You Earn (PAYE) records. Consequently, individuals with more than one job may appear in the sample more than once.

(my bold)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 8:46 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:http://schoolsimprovement.net/educating ... cse-grades

The Mirror is reporting that Thornhill Academy, the school made famous in Education Yorkshire, has been told it requires improvement after just 17% of its pupils sitting GCSEs gained five A*-C grades including maths and English*…
Er...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyy ... n-reforms/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Educating Yorkshire, a new fly-on-the-wall documentary series on Channel 4 from the same people that brought us Educating Essex, is a great advertisement for Michael Gove's education reforms.

double-plus good doubleplusgood doubleplusgood

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 8:48 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:

I couldn't have put it better myself.....

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 9:03 pm

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/about-ons/bus ... -ashe-.xls

ONS Annual Survey of Hours & Earnings (ASHE) March 2015

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 9:15 pm

I wonder if there's an election in the offing - or something....

Urgent inquiry needed into impact of 100k mentally ill people losing disability benefits, says ex-health minister
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ur ... 0k-5300120" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 9:15 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:http://schoolsimprovement.net/educating ... cse-grades

The Mirror is reporting that Thornhill Academy, the school made famous in Education Yorkshire, has been told it requires improvement after just 17% of its pupils sitting GCSEs gained five A*-C grades including maths and English*…
Er...

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyy ... n-reforms/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Educating Yorkshire, a new fly-on-the-wall documentary series on Channel 4 from the same people that brought us Educating Essex, is a great advertisement for Michael Gove's education reforms.
double-plus good doubleplusgood doubleplusgood

I feel a tweet coming on...

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 9:19 pm

Not sure what's going on, but watch out, watch out! Ukippery about....

Tilly Latimer ‏@TilsLatimer · 43m43 minutes ago
#EnvAnyQs UKIPs @williamrpcash states unequivocally that badgers are responsible for hedgehog decline b/c they eat them. Audience in fits.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 9:33 pm

Ian Katz ‏@iankatz1000 19 mins19 minutes ago
Also tonight....@xtophercook has new figures that show the Universal Credit could result in people working fewer hours, not more #newsnight

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 9:54 pm

http://www.ehi.co.uk/news/EHI/9912/scot ... vives-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scottish government plans to share data from a central NHS database with other public bodies have narrowly survived a Holyrood vote.

The proposals put forward by the SNP government were voted through by 65 to 60, helped by MSP Aileen Campbell who took time out from maternity leave especially to vote.

As reported by EHI News in February, the SNP said it wants to share non-medical data from the NHS central register, which holds details of everyone born or registered with a GP in Scotland, with the HMRC and other public bodies.

This is mainly in order to keep track of taxpayers from April 2016, when the country is set to implement its own rate of income tax.

However, critics – including all the other major political parties in Scotland – have criticised the plans, which would also make the data available to 120 public bodies, including Glasgow Airport, Scottish Canals, Quality Meat Scotland and the Royal Botanical Gardens.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 10:07 pm

David Cameron snubbed at United Nations as Lansley nomination ignored
UN names Stephen O’Brien, a former international development minister, as new chief of humanitarian agency after rejecting David Cameron’s nomination of ex-health secretary Andrew Lansley

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... nored.html

There is some justice in the world I suppose.

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 10:14 pm

I think I finally understand the ONS chart from JA!

The chart splits workers up into bands based on their rate of wage increases. What the chart shows (and the numbers behind it) is that if you are in the bottom 25% of workers (based on your rate of wage increase) your wages have consistently failed to keep pace with inflation. ie your wages have fallen, in real terms, every year since 2002.
The opposite is true if you are in the top 25% based on wage increases, your wages have consistently increased well in excess of inflation every year since 2002.

What the chart does not show is who is in each band - the minimum wage worker is not necessarily in the bottom, and the chief executive in the top.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 10:31 pm

WelshIan wrote:I think I finally understand the ONS chart from JA!

The chart splits workers up into bands based on their rate of wage increases. What the chart shows (and the numbers behind it) is that if you are in the bottom 25% of workers (based on your rate of wage increase) your wages have consistently failed to keep pace with inflation. ie your wages have fallen, in real terms, every year since 2002.
The opposite is true if you are in the top 25% based on wage increases, your wages have consistently increased well in excess of inflation every year since 2002.

What the chart does not show is who is in each band - the minimum wage worker is not necessarily in the bottom, and the chief executive in the top.

That's right - the people with the lowest % wage increases could actually be the highest paid.
And it isn't necessarily the same people continuously in the bottom 25%, although that was my original point, that it probably is.
I'm not sure it's at all useful.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 10:37 pm

Many thanks for your help, my friends, sorting out the ONS wage data.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 10:47 pm

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 15 mins15 minutes ago
Latest YouGov poll (08 - 09 Mar):
CON - 35% (+1)
LAB - 31% (-2)
UKIP - 14% (-1)
LDEM - 8% (-)
GRN - 6% (+1)

Have we had this one. I'm getting confused...

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 11:54 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 15 mins15 minutes ago
Latest YouGov poll (08 - 09 Mar):
CON - 35% (+1)
LAB - 31% (-2)
UKIP - 14% (-1)
LDEM - 8% (-)
GRN - 6% (+1)

Have we had this one. I'm getting confused...

No, we haven't. But you shared this very similar on earlier today, so it's easier to see where confusion could arise:

Patrick Wintour retweeted
Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 4 mins4 minutes ago
Latest Ashcroft poll (06 - 08 Mar):
CON - 34% (-)
LAB - 30% (-1)
UKIP - 15% (+1)
GRN - 8% (+1)
LDEM - 5% (-2)

Post by **adam** » Tue 10 Mar, 2015 12:01 am

LadyCentauria wrote:
Lot and his wife had to run away from something and 'God' told him he had to go first and she'd follow after but they'd only be 'safe' it Lot didn't look back to check she was coming. Well, after a while, Lot did turn around to see she was following and 'God' promptly turned her into a 'pillar of salt' to punish Lot. So, we who are hoping for a Labour election victory, shouldn't be distracted from our path by losing trust and heart in our 'mission'. And here endeth the lesson...

I've never quite understood why Lot wasn't the one to be turned into a pillar of salt unless his 'God' was looking for the most vindictive way to punish a man who loved his wife dearly. In which case, that 'God' wasn't exactly setting a good example to its followers. I think Lot's family were, supposedly, the only 'decent' family in Sodom and/or Gomorrah and 'God' destroyed the whole town because Lot's daughters got raped and murdered by strangers posing as 'God-fearing' friends. The old testament 'God' was a right bastard...

“And Lot's wife, of course, was told not to look back where all those people and their homes had been. But she did look back, and I love her for that, because it was so human. So she was turned into a pillar of salt. So it goes.”

Vonnegut - Slaughterhouse Five

After this, in a bible passage rarely brought out during lesson time, God demanded that Lot's daughters get their dad drunk and then sleep with him in order to keep the line going... (Genesis 19: 30-38)

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 10 Mar, 2015 12:32 am

adam wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
Lot and his wife had to run away from something and 'God' told him he had to go first and she'd follow after but they'd only be 'safe' it Lot didn't look back to check she was coming. Well, after a while, Lot did turn around to see she was following and 'God' promptly turned her into a 'pillar of salt' to punish Lot. So, we who are hoping for a Labour election victory, shouldn't be distracted from our path by losing trust and heart in our 'mission'. And here endeth the lesson...

I've never quite understood why Lot wasn't the one to be turned into a pillar of salt unless his 'God' was looking for the most vindictive way to punish a man who loved his wife dearly. In which case, that 'God' wasn't exactly setting a good example to its followers. I think Lot's family were, supposedly, the only 'decent' family in Sodom and/or Gomorrah and 'God' destroyed the whole town because Lot's daughters got raped and murdered by strangers posing as 'God-fearing' friends. The old testament 'God' was a right bastard...

“And Lot's wife, of course, was told not to look back where all those people and their homes had been. But she did look back, and I love her for that, because it was so human. So she was turned into a pillar of salt. So it goes.”
Vonnegut - Slaughterhouse Five

After this, in a bible passage rarely brought out during lesson time, God demanded that Lot's daughters get their dad drunk and then sleep with him in order to keep the line going... (Genesis 19: 30-38)

Ah, thanks Adam. I'm not the most biblically-literate of people. Doesn't Genesis have the same stories told differently in it? I've spent way more time listening to Genesis than reading that book

Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015

Re: Monday 9th March 2015