Wednesday 11th March 2015

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 5:57 pm

I am going to try and avoid passing judgment on this, because we FTNers have to soooo inclusive but honestly....using your newborn baby for political propaganda purposes ?

''More than two dozen babies were named either “Indy” or “Indie” in Scotland in 2014''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 01144.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:01 pm

yahyah wrote:I am going to try and avoid passing judgment on this, because we FTNers have to soooo inclusive but honestly....using your newborn baby for political propaganda purposes ?

''More than two dozen babies were named either “Indy” or “Indie” in Scotland in 2014''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 01144.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Could be worse - could have gone for Essempy
(I'll get my coat....)

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:02 pm

yahyah wrote:I am going to try and avoid passing judgment on this, because we FTNers have to soooo inclusive but honestly....using your newborn baby for political propaganda purposes ?

''More than two dozen babies were named either “Indy” or “Indie” in Scotland in 2014''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 01144.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bet they grow up and vote Tory.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:05 pm

Rebecca wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Willow904 wrote: The more I think about it the more I wonder if the whole Argentina thing was the last straw. He left his crew in a pile of shit, yet continues to insist the number plate was a coincidence and has acted like a complete cock over it in following episodes of the show with the whole apology over the misleading condor statement that was clearly taking the piss. Any kind of an assault on a colleague is gross misconduct and grounds for instant dismissal. Something that may have been overlooked in a normally well-regarded colleague, is a gift to a management keen to shift a troublemaker as it is pretty cast iron in legal terms. If the incident is grounds for suspension then I suspect the police would have been informed. Even if the police take no action, dismissal is still possible and an incident number would help back up the case for such action. I have no sympathy for Clarkson at all, he probably deserves to be sacked. My regret is more along the lines of I wish he wasn't such an objectionable dickhead because my son enjoys the less controversial elements of the show, as I don't see it continuing in any format without him.
The Argentina thing was a bunch of thugs behaving like thugs with the tacit approval of the Argentinian government - who are to a degree also a bunch of thugs. It is pretty hard to blame Clarkson for that. The number plate thing was weak to say the least and I tend to think it probably was just coincidence.

As a piece of TV it brought in a record number of viewers and until the Argentinians started behaving like a total bunch of twats it was a fantastic advert for tourism to the country.

Top Gear is probably more successful and lucrative than it has ever been, which doesn't mean it hasn't jumped the shark (the ambulance stuff was weak but the Australian cattle herding was fairly awesome). I think this is mostly the media setting Clarkson up for a fall, it seems unlikely anybody actually got punched on set but a bit of shoving may have gone on. However Clarkson would not be the first (and won't be the last) "star" to throw a complete hissy fit over food. This does not equate to workplace violence, and the BBC exists to make TV not operate a model workplace. Note this does not mean child molesters and rapists should operate unchallenged, but I don't think anybody is accusing the Top Gear team of being touchy feely. Neither does Clarkson have a record of being an arse to producers.

It is a TV program at the end of the day, the "liberal media" doesn't do the left any favours with the get Clarkson thing. Let him get on with making childish TV, let the BBC make some money out of it and let's get back to real politics. If there is enough here to merit a criminal complaint then that would change things, but there seems no immediate movement there.

The left would be better focussed on ramming home the message that the PM is an incompetent vindictive twat.
Well,seeing as none of us were present at the time of the 'fracas',it's probably best to let the beeb continue to investigate what actually happened,speak to any witnesses then act in an appropriate manner.
God knows why it has to be a 'lefty' versus 'righty' battle.Simply a workplace incident,if he did deck someone then normal workplace protocols should apply,regardless of how much money he brings in,if he did no such thing there shouldn't be a problem.
Speaking as someone who has never watched top gear or could care less for TV personalities of any political persuasion.
(Getting the hang of this tablet now)

Quite. At the end of the day if he didn't hit anyone, there are no grounds for dismissal. If he did hit someone, well sometimes there are consequences if we lose our temper. I'm sure he'll cope. It's all the other people whose livelihood depends on the show that I feel sorry for. It seems a shame they may end up out of a job. I'm not convinced one way or another over the number plate controversy. The story about why he picked the car seemed strangely laboured to me. Clarkson made an oblique reference to "the producers" in a recent show. I suspect there is a wider story and I rather doubt it has anything to do with 'left' or 'right' wing views, as you say.

Btw if I seem a little over obsessed with this case it's just because it reminds me a little of a case I was once involved with as an assistant manager, so I'm particularly aware that things may be much more complex and less black and white than they seem. I shouldn't really speculate. I'm sure the full story will come out eventually.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:11 pm

Interesting findings from YouGov about how voters see themselves, parties and leaders on a left to right scale.

The scores, with Centre as 0, YouGov claim the average voter is near to how the Lib Dems are rated on the scale.

Ed Miliband -40.1
Labour party -36.4
Liberal Democrats -7.4
All GB adults (self) -7.1
Nick Clegg -4.3
David Cameron 45.8
Conservative party 50.7
UKIP 58.6
Nigel Farage 61.6

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:12 pm

Sorry, have skewed the page with that pic.
Will delete it.

Visuals here :
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/03/11/vo ... -lib-dems/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They say tomorrow they will show how it has shifted over the years.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:13 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
pk1 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: I think I'll go and quietly cut my wrists....
Please don't make jokes like that - you don't know who may be reading & feel sufficiently emboldened to do just that.
Sorry. I put the eye rolling smiley in to show I wasn't that serious.

Sorry, I could have found a better way of saying what I wanted to.

There has been 4 suicides in proximity to where I live over the past 2 days so I'm probably just being ultra-sensitive on the subject.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:15 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
yahyah wrote:I am going to try and avoid passing judgment on this, because we FTNers have to soooo inclusive but honestly....using your newborn baby for political propaganda purposes ?

''More than two dozen babies were named either “Indy” or “Indie” in Scotland in 2014''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 01144.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Could be worse - could have gone for Essempy
(I'll get my coat....)

Was that not the name of the twilight baby?

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:28 pm

It looks like the controversial move by Osborne re the Manchester NHS budget isn't going away. Lord Owen believe that it breaches Parliamentary rules on pushing through legislation right before an election.

Robert Peston: The NHS, devolution, and the election
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31842654" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now as it happens, Lord Owen is in favour of the regional control of health spending.

But he has written to the cabinet secretary, Sir Jeremy Heywood, arguing that the authorisation of central government civil servants and health managers "to embark on a major new process for collaborative working in shadow form from 1 April ...is a serious abuse of past conventions, let alone in the new circumstances of a fixed Parliament when the date of an election has been known, in effect, for five years".

He believes that work to create the integrated health and social care service for Manchester in the coming weeks breaches a prohibition on rushing through policies that could secure political advantage for the ruling party (or parties) during the run up to a general election.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:28 pm

Goodnight, everyone.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:30 pm

Rebecca wrote:
yahyah wrote:I am going to try and avoid passing judgment on this, because we FTNers have to soooo inclusive but honestly....using your newborn baby for political propaganda purposes ?

''More than two dozen babies were named either “Indy” or “Indie” in Scotland in 2014''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 01144.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bet they grow up and vote Tory.

I've never forgotten. Some years ago when I was looking up births at the time of the Boer War, I came across a poor girl who was baptised Beatrice Mafaeking.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:31 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:35 pm

Evening everyone

See things have been a little tetchy again but glad that Temulkar came back, if only potentially for a while.

I am of the left, and proud to be of the left. To me this means being for equality, looking after the environment, not being focused on wealth and money as the only value to be pursued, internationalist in outlook etc etc.

I also understand the world is a complex place and that we need to be aware of that....nothing is easy because entropy errs towards disorder and we need to watch against that so we need to intervene, regulate and control sometimes

I would support Labour if in the UK because they are the only realistic chance for us from the left. Does that mean I dislike other parties of the left...no not at all but I can only go for what I think is the best way to see my politics being at the forefront.

Are Labour perfect...of coure not. They were formed as a way for the working people to have a voice (and we have to be honest the vast majority of us are salaried workers even if we may be well paid....), and those people are as flawed as any other group. Not always liberal, not always caring, sometimes jingoistic and Labour has had to adapt to that. They need to do better and be braver but, as the representatives of the left, they are attacked by those of the vested interests who still own the media and are dominant in the Establishment.

The Tories are just scum in the most part....they prey on the vulnerable, they created division and are trying to go back to a period before mass democracy takes hold (I accuse them of voter suppression and their allies in the press try to undermine the political process by dripfeed insinuation). It wasn't alwyas that way but it is now!

We on the left, which is most people here albeit with a different focus, are better than those on the right. More thoughtful and more intelligent in my view....we are also more prone to disagreement over detail even if our principles are similar. The same is true of the politicans. Greens attack Labour more than Tories and vice versa because they compete for votes....Greens attacking Tories in an election does them no real favours but portraying Labour as being the same does!

I would prefer they didn't do that but I can understand why

Keep an eye on the real enemy because none of them are on this site....they are sitting in the Establishment offices and CCHQ

I hope on May 8th we wake up to a better Government....and the only option is Miliband...get him in Number 10 and then hold him to the higher standards we want to see. Cameron in Number 10 will be a disaster and we will rue the day if that comes to pass

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:37 pm

Steve Bassam ‏@SteveTheQuip 10 hrs10 hours ago

Oxford Economics say the number of people in jobs paying less than £20k a yr has risen by 1.5m since 2010 as number earning £20k+ fell 800k

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:46 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Steve Bassam ‏@SteveTheQuip 10 hrs10 hours ago

Oxford Economics say the number of people in jobs paying less than £20k a yr has risen by 1.5m since 2010 as number earning £20k+ fell 800k

Doesn't surprise me in the least - that's why the income tax forecasts in the Autumn Statement were reduced from what was in the budget even though no policy had been changed.

Income tax (gross of tax credits)
2013/4..... +2.1
2014/5..... -3.6
2015/6..... -6.1
2016/7..... -8.2
2017/8.... -9.9
2018/9... -11.1

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:49 pm

The Liberal Party has withdrawn its three parliamentary candidates in Cornwall and urged supporters to vote for Ukip.

Paul Holmes, chairman of the Liberal Party in Cornwall, has written to Ukip confirming candidates in Truro and Falmouth, Camborne and Redruth and St Ives have stood down.

Mr Holmes, a parish councillor, said the parties share the same views on Europe, renewable technology and farming subsidies, adding it would be a "tragedy" if the Liberals denied Ukip an MP in Cornwall by splitting the vote.

The Liberal Party is distinct from the Liberal Democrats, which considers the South West its heartlands. But a rump remains committed to the party following the formation of the SDP–Liberal Alliance in the 1980s.

The party has councillors across the country, and seven parish councillors in Cornwall. The far South West has a strong liberal tradition, and many Liberal Democrats align themselves with the liberal wing of the party.

http://m.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Liber ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 6:51 pm

pk1 wrote:
The Liberal Party has withdrawn its three parliamentary candidates in Cornwall and urged supporters to vote for Ukip.

Paul Holmes, chairman of the Liberal Party in Cornwall, has written to Ukip confirming candidates in Truro and Falmouth, Camborne and Redruth and St Ives have stood down.

Mr Holmes, a parish councillor, said the parties share the same views on Europe, renewable technology and farming subsidies, adding it would be a "tragedy" if the Liberals denied Ukip an MP in Cornwall by splitting the vote.

The Liberal Party is distinct from the Liberal Democrats, which considers the South West its heartlands. But a rump remains committed to the party following the formation of the SDP–Liberal Alliance in the 1980s.

The party has councillors across the country, and seven parish councillors in Cornwall. The far South West has a strong liberal tradition, and many Liberal Democrats align themselves with the liberal wing of the party.
http://m.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Liber ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Either they are stupid or they have been paid off

Liberals voting UKIP???????

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:02 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Steve Bassam ‏@SteveTheQuip 10 hrs10 hours ago

Oxford Economics say the number of people in jobs paying less than £20k a yr has risen by 1.5m since 2010 as number earning £20k+ fell 800k

Yep. I know.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:05 pm

Benefitsandwork has an interesting article.

There have been rumours about this, and they are asking for evidence - people are being called in for WCAs without being sent the ESA50.

The guidance is that the reassessment process begins with the ESA50, and that is the only opportunity claimants have to put their own words to the problems they have and to submit medical evidence.
It seems Maximus is just writing to people or phoning them to book the appointment but not sending the forms out beforehand; this is wrong and if it is not incompetence but deliberate policy it has to stop.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:07 pm

Rebecca wrote:
yahyah wrote:I am going to try and avoid passing judgment on this, because we FTNers have to soooo inclusive but honestly....using your newborn baby for political propaganda purposes ?

''More than two dozen babies were named either “Indy” or “Indie” in Scotland in 2014''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 01144.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bet they grow up and vote Tory.

and/or become whip-wielding archaeologists.

Slightly better than 'Freedom', or (presumably) the unionist equivalent, 'London'. As for 'Hiya', 'Mate', 'Fox' and 'Sherlock' ... I pity them when they get to school.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:10 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:If Dan, Ernst or Paul are around, I did ask late last night but not sure if you read it.

If you have RebeccaRiots email address, could you check she and Mr Riots are okay? It's been five days now since she posted.....
Shall do, Ohso.

Looks like we may have spammed her

I hadn't gotten to this post and have sent her an email, now I'm home from work.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:12 pm

refitman wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:If Dan, Ernst or Paul are around, I did ask late last night but not sure if you read it.

If you have RebeccaRiots email address, could you check she and Mr Riots are okay? It's been five days now since she posted.....
Shall do, Ohso.
Looks like we may have spammed her

I hadn't gotten to this post and have sent her an email, now I'm home from work.

Thanks...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:14 pm

A few years ago I was in a queue. One pretty little girl was Apache. Her sister was Tennessee.

You just knew daddy had a cowboy hat at home. God knows what the mother was thinking.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:16 pm

Thank goodness for those LibDems. From their Newcastle sect.

Because Lib Dems bit the Coalition bullet, here's what happened

March 11, 2015 5:50 PM
* £38 million extra cash for Newcastle schools

* A million more children in good or outstanding schools

* 2 million apprenticeships reaching skills to young people

* Tax cuts for 26 million

* No tax until you earn over £11,000 soon

* Deficit halved as a proportion of economy

* 1000 new jobs created every day, mainly in weakth creation sector

Because you're worth it!

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:18 pm

ohsocynical wrote:A few years ago I was in a queue. One pretty little girl was Apache. Her sister was Tennessee.

You just knew daddy had a cowboy hat at home. God knows what the mother was thinking.

I taught a kid called Pocahontas. She dealt with it better the one called Atlantis Marina Xxxxxx.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:21 pm

ohsocynical wrote: Judging by the Tweets I'm getting, a lot of people find it appalling that more people have signed the petition for him not to be sacked than for FGM or foodbanks and it's a sad reflection on our society.

To be honest, I think this is more a sad reflection on our media, rather than society as a whole. How much paper/TV time has FGM got and how widespread is the petition know? Now compare to the blanket coverage that Clarkson has got over the last couple of days.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:25 pm

A week ago or so I made a post about a Tory minister saying our troops would be extremely welcome in the house building industy, and which included yearly house building stats. I was a bit unhappy with the figures quoted.

The following longer Tweet knocks them down nicely.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sl5rnr

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:27 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Judging by the Tweets I'm getting, a lot of people find it appalling that more people have signed the petition for him not to be sacked than for FGM or foodbanks and it's a sad reflection on our society.
To be honest, I think this is more a sad reflection on our media, rather than society as a whole. How much paper/TV time has FGM got and how widespread is the petition know? Now compare to the blanket coverage that Clarkson has got over the last couple of days.

I Tweeted: I wonder if Dave is going to send Clarkson a letter of thanks for distracting us from Debates, HSBC, tax fiddles, NHS, UC and Green.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:35 pm

I have heard back from RR2. She's taking a break to recharge her batteries and focus some of her energy into her local candidate's campaign. She also says to say thanks to Ohso, PorFavor and others for their concern.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:37 pm

Good.
Thanks about RR2.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:38 pm

Thinking about that 10,600 figure (which I consider a rogue) and the effect that's had on disenchantment with Labour.

This reminded me of this graphic that got widely shared in a "why don't politicians sort out inequality?" way:

Well, first thing looking at that- Lincolnshire is a region? Cornwall?

Lincolnshire has a population of under 600,000 (that's excluding North Lincolnshire, which is in another region).

Cornwall 530,000.

How big are the other regions? Hainault has a population of 1.3m. That means you could add Devon (750,000) to Cornwall. That would make the region richer.

More points are made here.

http://spatial-economics.blogspot.co.uk ... orest.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The important point is that the other countries there are richer than Britain. If you took the whole UK as one region, only 6 regions in Holland, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Denmark combined would be poorer than Britain. Also, "Inner London" is the economic output of the region- huge numbers of the people doing it don't live in inner London.

Another figure thrown about is Richard Murphy's £120bn tax gap. I think Murphy makes good points, and as he said to me rightly, nobody apart from him is interested in calculating the figure. But it's not a figure that's peer reviewed or anything, yet it keeps cropping up.

These things make all of us in the Labour mainstream area look very weak. No wonder lots of people prefer "radical" politics.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:41 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Judging by the Tweets I'm getting, a lot of people find it appalling that more people have signed the petition for him not to be sacked than for FGM or foodbanks and it's a sad reflection on our society.
To be honest, I think this is more a sad reflection on our media, rather than society as a whole. How much paper/TV time has FGM got and how widespread is the petition know? Now compare to the blanket coverage that Clarkson has got over the last couple of days.
I Tweeted: I wonder if Dave is going to send Clarkson a letter of thanks for distracting us from Debates, HSBC, tax fiddles, NHS, UC and Green.

It's certainly distracted me, but then I suspect I needed a break from all the upsetting stuff. Clarkson's fate isn't going to bother me however it pans out, whilst all that other stuff.....

Let's just say I'm really glad David Owen has questioned the legitimacy of the NHS revolution deal as I was very alarmed by the lack of media reaction to what seemed to me to be a very dodgy manoeuvre, constitutionally speaking. I was starting to think this lot could get away with literally anything, without anyone of note even attempting to challenge them.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:43 pm

I have an old hippy friend who called his daughters Sunshine Lysistrata and Moonbeam Clytemenestra.

There are some funny folks out there.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:47 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Judging by the Tweets I'm getting, a lot of people find it appalling that more people have signed the petition for him not to be sacked than for FGM or foodbanks and it's a sad reflection on our society.
To be honest, I think this is more a sad reflection on our media, rather than society as a whole. How much paper/TV time has FGM got and how widespread is the petition know? Now compare to the blanket coverage that Clarkson has got over the last couple of days.
I Tweeted: I wonder if Dave is going to send Clarkson a letter of thanks for distracting us from Debates, HSBC, tax fiddles, NHS, UC and Green.

Clarksons comment a few years ago, that striking public sector workers should be executed in front of their families was clearly set up on the One Show and served its purpose. It got the headlines and took the heat off the coalition. Matt Baker looked really awkward before, during and after the comments, so I assume it was imposed on them from above.
Clarkson is doing something similar again.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:47 pm

With things that have happened over the last couple of weeks/months, with people taking breaks or leaving, can I just echo TE's post the other day that communicating via a message board is very different to face to face. Please be aware that the way you read what you are writing may not be the same way other people might read it (and even as I write this, I realise this may come across as bossy, rather than the gentle encouragement I intend it to be).

Also it is worth taking a minute before replying to someone else's post. It has happened to me on occasion, that I will read something someone has written that I disagree with and I almost reply with something snippy. I try to either re-think what they have posted, leave it for a bit before replying or just ignore it if it really isn't that important.

I hope you all appreciate that I am not taking any sides here, I just don't want to see the friendships we have built here damaged for (comparatively) little reason.

(Again, encouraging, not bossy

)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:55 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:Thank goodness for those LibDems. From their Newcastle sect.

Because Lib Dems bit the Coalition bullet, here's what happened

March 11, 2015 5:50 PM
* £38 million extra cash for Newcastle schools

* A million more children in good or outstanding schools

* 2 million apprenticeships reaching skills to young people

* Tax cuts for 26 million

* No tax until you earn over £11,000 soon

* Deficit halved as a proportion of economy

* 1000 new jobs created every day, mainly in weakth creation sector

Because you're worth it!

No tax! Apart from NI then.

What on earth is the "wealth creation sector"?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:57 pm

More than 300 young people have been groomed and sexually exploited by gangs of men in Oxfordshire in the past 15 years, a damning report into the failures of police and social services to stop years of sexual torture, trafficking and rape will reveal, the Guardian has learned.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... ase-review

Tom Watson has Tweeted about the difference in coverage to when the Rotherham abuse was reported.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 7:58 pm

refitman wrote:I have heard back from RR2. She's taking a break to recharge her batteries and focus some of her energy into her local candidate's campaign. She also says to say thanks to Ohso, PorFavor and others for their concern.

As long as they're okay...

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:00 pm

It is also worth noting that those Guardian predictions are based on a very selective set of polls. Of the two showing substantive Tory leads, one was Ashcroft (and therefore irrelevant) and one was a You Gov poll that didn't stand up to even cursory analysis.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:02 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
pk1 wrote:
The Liberal Party has withdrawn its three parliamentary candidates in Cornwall and urged supporters to vote for Ukip.

Paul Holmes, chairman of the Liberal Party in Cornwall, has written to Ukip confirming candidates in Truro and Falmouth, Camborne and Redruth and St Ives have stood down.

Mr Holmes, a parish councillor, said the parties share the same views on Europe, renewable technology and farming subsidies, adding it would be a "tragedy" if the Liberals denied Ukip an MP in Cornwall by splitting the vote.

The Liberal Party is distinct from the Liberal Democrats, which considers the South West its heartlands. But a rump remains committed to the party following the formation of the SDP–Liberal Alliance in the 1980s.

The party has councillors across the country, and seven parish councillors in Cornwall. The far South West has a strong liberal tradition, and many Liberal Democrats align themselves with the liberal wing of the party.
http://m.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Liber ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Either they are stupid or they have been paid off

Liberals voting UKIP???????

Fellow "none of the above". Makes sense.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:05 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:It is also worth noting that those Guardian predictions are based on a very selective set of polls. Of the two showing substantive Tory leads, one was Ashcroft (and therefore irrelevant) and one was a You Gov poll that didn't stand up to even cursory analysis.

Release the Guardvarks.

I love this.
Goodnight friends.
love
JA

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:08 pm

refitman wrote: I hope you all appreciate that I am not taking any sides here, I just don't want to see the friendships we have built here damaged for (comparatively) little reason.

(Again, encouraging, not bossy )

Ok Boss. Message received and understood.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:13 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Thinking about that 10,600 figure (which I consider a rogue) and the effect that's had on disenchantment with Labour.

This reminded me of this graphic that got widely shared in a "why don't politicians sort out inequality?" way:

Well, first thing looking at that- Lincolnshire is a region? Cornwall?

Lincolnshire has a population of under 600,000 (that's excluding North Lincolnshire, which is in another region).

Cornwall 530,000.

How big are the other regions? Hainault has a population of 1.3m. That means you could add Devon (750,000) to Cornwall. That would make the region richer.

More points are made here.

http://spatial-economics.blogspot.co.uk ... orest.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The important point is that the other countries there are richer than Britain. If you took the whole UK as one region, only 6 regions in Holland, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Denmark combined would be poorer than Britain. Also, "Inner London" is the economic output of the region- huge numbers of the people doing it don't live in inner London.

Another figure thrown about is Richard Murphy's £120bn tax gap. I think Murphy makes good points, and as he said to me rightly, nobody apart from him is interested in calculating the figure. But it's not a figure that's peer reviewed or anything, yet it keeps cropping up.

These things make all of us in the Labour mainstream area look very weak. No wonder lots of people prefer "radical" politics.

A set of fair points well made.

The biggest problem that the Labour mainstream has is the same one you always have fighting radicals.

They - the Greens being a prime example, UKIP another - all believe that they have the perfectly simple solution to the nations problems.

Which is really an example of the following truism.

For every problem there exists a perfectly simple solution, that is perfectly and simply wrong.

UKIP think if we leave Europe we will be saved. The Greens think if we unilaterally reject modern capitalism we will be saved.

Both positions are populist, both clearly wrong.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:31 pm

Has this been mentioned before? Looks to me like Clarkson could be (pardon the pun) in the driving seat, with nothing much to lose.

The BBC is investigating the allegations against Clarkson, but he could walk away from the show when his contract runs out at the end of the month.

All three of the show’s hosts were understood to be days away from signing new contracts that would have kept them at the wheel of the show for another three years when Clarkson was suspended.

The BBC owns the rights to the Top Gear brand, which is valued at £50 million, and includes the show, DVD rights and live shows, raising the prospect of Top Gear continuing on the BBC while Clarkson takes a similar show to one of its rivals.

http://www.scotsman.com/what-s-on/tv-ra ... -1-3716310

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:40 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
A set of fair points well made.

The biggest problem that the Labour mainstream has is the same one you always have fighting radicals.

They - the Greens being a prime example, UKIP another - all believe that they have the perfectly simple solution to the nations problems.

Which is really an example of the following truism.

For every problem there exists a perfectly simple solution, that is perfectly and simply wrong.

UKIP think if we leave Europe we will be saved. The Greens think if we unilaterally reject modern capitalism we will be saved.

Both positions are populist, both clearly wrong.

It's surprising that UKIP's nonsense doesn't get more regularly exposed, because they take mostly Tory votes. I guess media proprietors' prejudices also come into it.

Green policies though seem to be pretty much left to float. You'd think there'd be a "loony left" story a day in them!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:43 pm

John Swinney ‏@JohnSwinney 9h9 hours ago
For the 34th year in a row, Scotland generated more in tax per head than rest of UK. In stronger position than UK for 3 out of last 6 years.

You might notice he forgot to mention the £1,200 of extra spending per head.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:48 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
John Swinney ‏@JohnSwinney 9h9 hours ago
For the 34th year in a row, Scotland generated more in tax per head than rest of UK. In stronger position than UK for 3 out of last 6 years.
You might notice he forgot to mention the £1,200 of extra spending per head.

An unfortunately timed tweet...

Scotland facing £6.6bn 'shortfall' after oil price plunge
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... l-revenues" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The IFS said the latest official data on North Sea oil revenues suggested that Scotland could be £6.6bn worse off next year after oil prices fell to $50 (£33) a barrel, and it faced a deficit twice that of projections for the UK.

The thinktank’s forecasts come after official Scottish government data, published in its annual government expenditure and revenue Scotland report, showed that Scotland’s financial deficit was 40% higher than the UK’s as a whole last year.
Scottish financial deficit 40% higher than rest of UK, data reveals

Even if a geographical share of North Sea oil receipts were included, falling tax revenues helped push Scotland’s overall deficit for 2013/14 to £12.4bn, the report said. Excluding North Sea oil, Scotland’s onshore deficit was far higher at £16.4bn, or 12.2% of the country’s GDP.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:55 pm

Over the years I've encountered a fair few names that made me chuckle or pity the children lumbered with them. My favourites though were the father and sons named Innocent, Marvellous and Amazing.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:55 pm

Just reading about a TES education hustings and saw this...

samuelpanther @iamsammypanther · 6h 6 hours ago
If you're missing Top Gear on Sunday, ask a local UKIP member to read a copy of Autotrader to you.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 11 Mar, 2015 8:57 pm

A couple of thoughts ....

On BBC producers, who don't necessarily have as much power as you might think. In fact, in some cases, the title is little more than an honorific; in the days before the advent of BBC Online a friend of mine was the editor of the online version of the Radio Times and, as such, was awarded the title of Producer - it meant little on a day to day basis, but did mean she was able to blag her way into screenings with Barry Norman and the filming of a variety of shows.

On children's names. I once worked with a bloke who was by nature the office joker. When he and his wife had a son their intention was to call him Richard Edward until I asked my colleague what, if anybody started working with us who had that name, he would shorten it to; I've always considered young Richard Anthony owes me a serious favour!