Tuesday 17th.March 2015

diGriz · Post by **diGriz** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 7:42 pm

Tish wrote:According to the Guardian, the replacement for the two way debate would be this:

"Cameron and Miliband would be interviewed by Jeremy Paxman and then questioned by a studio audience in a Sky/Channel 4 special on 26 March. But the two leaders would appear separately – never sharing the stage, depriving Miliband of the chance to confront Cameron directly."

I don't think the format of that is too bad, it would give Miliband the exposure, which is what he needs, and everyone would know that Cameron was refusing to debate him directly, so he would still be seen as chickening out. But 26th March is far too early, it needs to be held in the last couple of weeks of the campaign so its still in the public mind.

If Cameron is determined to dodge a head to head it's probably the best we're going to get, it's basically the same as if Cameron was empty chaired, but giving him a right to reply, which OFCOM would probably have insisted on anyway.

After last week's Free Speech he definitely won't consider it.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 7:42 pm

diGriz wrote:Does anyone have a handy link for how many E-petitions were read and debated in Parliament?

Hansard records what happened in the Commons & WH. Updates take place every 3 hours but seeing as it's Tuesday, they will have already been done for the day.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... s-debates/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

diGriz · Post by **diGriz** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 7:45 pm

pk1 wrote:
diGriz wrote:Does anyone have a handy link for how many E-petitions were read and debated in Parliament?
Hansard records what happened in the Commons & WH. Updates take place every 3 hours but seeing as it's Tuesday, they will have already been done for the day.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... s-debates/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, I meant in total.

I forgot all about them until the other day and wondered if any actually were debated or if the whole thing another 'promise' from those honest blue chappies.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 7:45 pm

I'm so angry!!! Did you know that the policy now for a 95 year old who lives alone in a council property is not entitled to a shower unless they are incontinent? They have to wash at the sink!!!
I implore you all to make sure that you all vote and get these tory bastards out!! DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!

I am so proud of the above quote. My niece posted it on FaceBook. Finally another member of the family becoming politically aware...

The 95 year old is Joan her paternal grandmother. Joan still does her own shopping and is quite independent. She is the original tough old bird. The only thing she can't do these days is get in and out of the bath.

So much for Hunts keeping the elderly in their own home for as long as possible.

Edited to add, it's sheltered accommodation she's in. It's not as if it's a council house.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 7:48 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Bloody Twitter has been - well - bloody today with everyone jumping on the Reeves comments and saying if Labour lose the left will get the blame because they've taken offence and won't be voting for Ed.
And the bloody, bloody trolls were salivating at all the negativity.

I posted a couple of reposts, but had to stop because I was getting so angry. I didn't want to start a slanging match. Some days my brain and tongue are sharp enough to cope, but this wasn't one of them.

I'm thinking that despite all the noise and moaning,a lot of them,when push comes to shove will still vote labour come May.How daft would you be to think your life as a disabled/jobseeker etc won't get a whole bloody lot worse if Cameron gets another 5 years at it.
If I'm wrong(unlikely I know!)they will get what they bloody deserve.
Says me crossly.

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 7:56 pm

A quick question/musing; if these interviews go ahead, what order will they be in, and will other candidates be able to see the recording?

I can see Callme organising himself an entire hour of having the last word, with no comeback.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 7:59 pm

Hobiejoe wrote:A quick question/musing; if these interviews go ahead, what order will they be in, and will other candidates be able to see the recording?

I can see Callme organising himself an entire hour of having the last word, with no comeback.

You can bet it will be pre-planned and organised down the the minutest detail.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 8:00 pm

Rebecca wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Bloody Twitter has been - well - bloody today with everyone jumping on the Reeves comments and saying if Labour lose the left will get the blame because they've taken offence and won't be voting for Ed.
And the bloody, bloody trolls were salivating at all the negativity.

I posted a couple of reposts, but had to stop because I was getting so angry. I didn't want to start a slanging match. Some days my brain and tongue are sharp enough to cope, but this wasn't one of them.

I'm thinking that despite all the noise and moaning,a lot of them,when push comes to shove will still vote labour come May.How daft would you be to think your life as a disabled/jobseeker etc won't get a whole bloody lot worse if Cameron gets another 5 years at it.
If I'm wrong(unlikely I know!)they will get what they bloody deserve.
Says me crossly.

I've given up trying to get into their heads. So many seem to have adopted the same mindset as the 45ers, Labour are the real enemy, they have betrayed me after I fought for them all my life *, I won't be happy until I see them buried blah blah. Lemmings.

* Usually said by the sort of person you know thinks Lenin is a wishy washy moderate.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 8:04 pm

Goodnight, everyone.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 8:08 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Bloody Twitter has been - well - bloody today with everyone jumping on the Reeves comments and saying if Labour lose the left will get the blame because they've taken offence and won't be voting for Ed.
And the bloody, bloody trolls were salivating at all the negativity.

I posted a couple of reposts, but had to stop because I was getting so angry. I didn't want to start a slanging match. Some days my brain and tongue are sharp enough to cope, but this wasn't one of them.

I'm thinking that despite all the noise and moaning,a lot of them,when push comes to shove will still vote labour come May.How daft would you be to think your life as a disabled/jobseeker etc won't get a whole bloody lot worse if Cameron gets another 5 years at it.
If I'm wrong(unlikely I know!)they will get what they bloody deserve.
Says me crossly.

I've given up trying to get into their heads. So many seem to have adopted the same mindset as the 45ers, Labour are the real enemy, they have betrayed me after I fought for them all my life *, I won't be happy until I see them buried blah blah. Lemmings.

* Usually said by the sort of person you know thinks Lenin is a wishy washy moderate.

It's no good. I can't go near Twitter this evening. I shall explode if I do.

Stupid Reeves needs to get her statements checked, checked and checked again. And stupid, stupid people feeding the Conservative trolls need their knuckles rapping. There's more about her than about Shapps.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 8:09 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 8:11 pm

Tory Constituency Chairman requests that tories vote Lib Dem in Tottenham!.....

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 8:16 pm

Rebecca wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Bloody Twitter has been - well - bloody today with everyone jumping on the Reeves comments and saying if Labour lose the left will get the blame because they've taken offence and won't be voting for Ed.
And the bloody, bloody trolls were salivating at all the negativity.

I posted a couple of reposts, but had to stop because I was getting so angry. I didn't want to start a slanging match. Some days my brain and tongue are sharp enough to cope, but this wasn't one of them.

I'm thinking that despite all the noise and moaning,a lot of them,when push comes to shove will still vote labour come May.How daft would you be to think your life as a disabled/jobseeker etc won't get a whole bloody lot worse if Cameron gets another 5 years at it.
If I'm wrong(unlikely I know!)they will get what they bloody deserve.
Says me crossly.

I agree with both of you - which is why I said what I said earlier, viz. I wish RR wouldn't make statements - it is absolutely guaranteed to be reported out of context (partly due to media bias) but she also has an annoying habit of supplying the fodder for that to happen.

I'm not being funny here - most people really aren't very politically aware. We've all seen the surveys about how the public think 25% of benefit claims are fraudulent and how they think the Tories are competent with the economy even in the face of evidence to the contrary. We are very well-informed here, and even when we don't agree the arguments are always intelligent and most of the time we can agree to differ.

There is no nuance on social media and I think that although something like Twitter is good for some things (jokes, links especially, a quick vent now and then) the format and the set-up seems to encourage stupidity at times.

It's a sad fact of life that people will accept headlines as gospel - they are either too lazy or insufficiently interested to delve any further, which is one of the reasons why tabloids and things like reality telly and sleb culture is so popular.
Having knowledge and commitment to a cause or politics takes some work - most people really aren't that interested IMHO.

As I said earlier, many of the people up in arms today want a bit of hope. Maybe they're at fault to a degree for not looking deeper, but I can understand how they feel. Reeves has been a disappointment - even if I accept that things for people like me can't possibly be worse under Labour, I can relate to their anger and their fear.

As someone who has now been without due benefit for several months now, I would be destitute if it wasn't for Show and the occasional help from my daughter (who should be saving for her impending move) and although I've never been sanctioned the effect is the same.

I will be due trial by Maximus soon as well - and I need to hear a strong message that my situation will get better under a government that cares - now, I know that Labour and Reeves are going to do more than the angry people on Twitter and elsewhere have chosen to think, but I do understand why they choose to think what they do.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 8:18 pm

Dear

We are now just 50 days away from the general election and I want to thank you for everything you're doing to campaign for a Labour victory in May. As always, this report details some of the things I have been up to in the European Parliament and across the South East of England.

Campaigning for Labour

Here in the South East we must win all of our key seats if we are going to secure the Labour government that our country so badly needs; to raise the Minimum Wage, freeze energy bills, build thousands more homes, repeal the Health and Social Care Act, ban exploitative zero hours contracts, scrap the Bedroom Tax and much, much more!

In the coming weeks I will continue to get out on the doorstep as much as I can in our key seats including this Wednesday in Reading West where we will be joined by Gianna Pittella MEP (leader of the Socialists and Democrats in the European Parliament). We will be meeting at 10am outside the Co-operative, 21 The Triangle, Reading RG30 4RN. After campaigning members will have the opportunity to chat with Gianni in a nearby café.

I've also launched an auction to raise money for our key seats. To take part all you have to do is email AnnelieseJDodds@gmail.com with which item, or items, you want along with your bid and the highest bidder wins! The auction ends at 5pm on Friday 3rd April and winning bidders will be notified by email. The auction items are:

The National Minimum Wage Act signed by Tony Blair (£50 reserve)
Afternoon tea in the House of Commons
Bottle of Italian Limoncello signed by Gianni Pittella
'Five days in May' signed by Lord Adonis
'Because Britain deserves better' 1997 election poster signed by Tony Blair (£50 reserve)
Bottle of House of Commons Whisky signed by Ed Miliband (£50 reserve)
Hamper of South East delights
Three bottles of Alsatian wine

The South East's Voice in Europe

Lots of discussion in the European Parliament focused on what more can be done to help Europe recover from the financial crisis and return to growth. These debates are hugely important as they get to the heart of how we can improve life for people and small businesses right across the South East. In particular the EU is setting up a huge new investment fund worth €315bn -- and trying to make finance more readily available to businesses (so called "capital markets union").

We need to make sure that as a region we make the most of these opportunities and make sure that everyone pays their fair share

Parliament has voted to set up a 'Special Committee' to look into dodgy tax practices. I will be a member of that Committee, and am also leading the work in Parliament to make recommendations for how the law should be changed to stop these things happening in future. You can read a blog I wrote about taxation, and let me know your ideas for how things should change, on my website.

I also called for the Commission to come forward with clear proposals for mandatory country of origin labelling for all meat in processed food and voted for measures to make it easier to prosecute foreign drivers who commit traffic offences in the UK.

Working across the South East

Unlike UKIP MEPs, I am working hard across our whole region and in the parliament on the issues constituents say matter most to them. Like our fantastic Labour councillors and MPs, I want to show people the significant and necessary difference that electing a Labour representative can make.

In February I supported 'Time to Talk Day', joined Chuka Umunna MP and Victoria Groulef, our MP candidate for Reading West, to launch our South East economic plan, and supported the Woman to Woman tour when it visited Milton Keynes.

I have also been active in taking up the issues and concerns that constituents have been contacting me about; since May 2014 I have responded to 10,423 constituents' letters and emails on a wide range of casework and policy issues with 83% of constituents rating these replies as very good or excellent.

Keeping in touch
In a region with the same size population as Austria keeping in touch with constituents isn't always easy. My small team and I are working hard to use every tool available to us. There are regular updates on my website, Facebook page, and YouTube channel. I get out on the doorstep speaking directly with constituents as often as I can and in February I met local residents in Brighton, Crawley, Dover, Hastings, Hove, Milton Keynes, Oxford, and Reading. I frequently tweet about what I'm up to and write a monthly e-newsletter to constituents.

I'm also trying to get our message across in the media and have been undertaking interviews with local and regional news agencies throughout our region.

I hope you have found this a useful insight into what I've been up to and you can read my full report here. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to get in touch.

With best wishes,

Anneliese Dodds MEP

I thought Ernst might be interested in this.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 8:32 pm

Ephie agree entirely with what you're saying.

I do wonder though if people's memories are deliberately short. Although it seems like forever the Tories have only been in for five years. Before that although things weren't perfect under Labour, the less well off and less able bodied were at least looked after fairly well.
How can they possibly think that somehow Labour has changed and will now ignore them?

Do they think people like you and RR2 who spend time actively helping, and others like me, lazier but donating from our State Pensions are wasting our time? Do they want the young who are putting so much effort into the campaign to become cynics and not bother?

I am disgusted with some of them. They should know better.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 8:48 pm

PorFavor wrote:Found edit button - panic over, I was looking in the wrong place. Sorry!

Were you reading the Graun by mistake?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 8:56 pm

refitman wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: Given all these things cost money, one option would be to keep the site as a rolling window and just delete the older DP stuff. Nobody is going to go back and look at stuff older than a couple of months, especially as we hold ongoing useful info in other areas.
Or perhaps we could all chip in?
It's actually pretty cheap to run. I just opted for the lowest resource tier when we set it up, not knowing how much we would use.

I also need to update the background software at some point. Will involve taking the site down for a bit, so I'll do it late one night.

Not May 7th though.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:01 pm

pk1 wrote:Just been wading through some of the bile & abusive comments over at the Graun & came across this from RClayton:

Just to note that the Security and Intelligence Agencies are either having an emergency spending programme or are very bad at budgeting.

Government departments are normally expected to seek Parliamentary approval well in advance for the total amount they will spend by 31 March. Today in a written statement, Francis Maude on behalf of the agencies has had to announce that the Agencies are having to be given £66.8 million from the Treasury's back pocket (technically the Civil Contingencies Fund) in order to meet either costs which either they have underestimated or (possibly, though I doubt Parliament sees much fine detail) spending within budget but on different things to those which Parliament has formally agreed to.
Bloody pity there isn't a journalist worth their salt who would follow what happens in Parliament & report on it instead of the tittle tattle that fills the pages of even the broadsheets.

I've had some difficulty logging back in throughout the day - apologies for catching up right now.

I saw this post from RClayton today too.

"Just to note that the Security and Intelligence Agencies are either having an emergency spending programme or are very bad at budgeting."

Earlier today, I found a garbled quote from the National Audit Office (NAO) leader, Amyas Morse, indicating the drastic cuts made to departments during current government are a bad thing. Cutting into the beating heart of an organisation or something to that effect.

I was saddened all I could do was recommend RClayton's post; I hadn't time to get into any exchange. Amazing we saw it though. To answer a bit of RClayton's post, no, it's not being bad at budgeting, it's being told to cut, doing so & reaping the result of that action.

See, this is one last reason why I can't vote Tory. They're not good leaders. They're not good budget makers.

Anyway, good evening everyone, I'm half-way through reading the day's posts.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:02 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Ephie agree entirely with what you're saying.

I do wonder though if people's memories are deliberately short. Although it seems like forever the Tories have only been in for five years. Before that although things weren't perfect under Labour, the less well off and less able bodied were at least looked after fairly well.
How can they possibly think that somehow Labour has changed and will now ignore them?

Do they think people like you and RR2 who spend time actively helping, and others like me, lazier but donating from our State Pensions are wasting our time? Do they want the young who are putting so much effort into the campaign to become cynics and not bother?

I am disgusted with some of them. They should know better.

And I should have included Giselle who likes to beard the lions in their den, PF and Pk who have bravely tackled phone canvassing and other FTNs who are helping in various ways.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:04 pm

PorFavor wrote:
The head of the National Audit Office has accused Whitehall officials of inflicint[sic] deep public spending cuts without fully understanding their impact on services. Auditor general Sir Amyas Morse said that “radical surgery” had been carried out as part of the Government’s austerity programme without officials knowing “where the heart was”. The National Audit Office chief suggested that an “optimism bias” within David Cameron’s administration had led to ministers pressing ahead with reforms to services like the NHS with limited discussion of the potential risks. Morse told the Financial Times:

If you’re going to do radical surgery, it would be nice if you knew where the heart was. You’re slightly more likely not to stick a knife in it by mistake. (Andrew Sparrow, Guardian - my emphasis)
"Optimism bias"! Makes them sound like the Cheeryble brothers.

When I have a busy day, I forget where I've read things.

Thank you!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:07 pm

diGriz wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
diGriz wrote:It's taken me half an hour to get onto the site. Problems?
Ya think, diGriz-o?

It's been pretty creaky nearly all day.
Written without the benefit of being able to read the entire thread. Getting on was like wading through mud.

I had to go to the Guardian and BBC to see what going on today, I still don't feel informed.

Yes, exactly!
FTN is that important. Thank you all for being here. I get nervous when I can't access y'all here.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:20 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Ephie agree entirely with what you're saying.

I do wonder though if people's memories are deliberately short. Although it's seems like forever the Tories have only been in for five years. Before that although things weren't perfect under Labour, the less well off and less able bodied were at least looked after fairly well.
How can they possibly think that somehow Labour has changed and will now ignore them?

Do they think people like you and RR2 who spend time actively helping, and others like me, lazier but donating from our State Pensions are wasting our time? Do they want the young who are putting so much effort into the campaign to become cynics and not bother?

I am disgusted with some of them. They should know better.

You make very good points, as ever, OhSo.

I think peoples' memories are short sometimes; but in the case of social security, we have to remember that it was New Labour who brought ESA and the WCA, and sanctions for ill people for the first time.
Although those sanctions weren't used anything like as often as they are now, those of us who have been involved with this stuff for years objected to them at the time and New Labour were deaf to us.
Many people who campaign on this stuff felt betrayed by New Labour, and I have some sympathy with that; all it takes is one misinterpreted or cherry-picked soundbite and that anger comes out.

When people who are ill and tired, on poverty benefits and in fear of them being removed, having their rights taken away and being vilified in the media, are given what they think is a bit of hope - like Ed saying he will keep the ILF, then Green saying the opposite within days - then see a headline like the offerings today, I think it's not unreasonable for them to feel aggrieved, frankly.

There has been an unwillingness to engage with the sensible campaigners, like the Spartacus group and some of the better writers and bloggers (I'm thinking Simon Duffy, Brian Wernham, Nick at ilegal) who have some very good ideas and are much more knowledgeable on all this than the politicians.
There is a massive resource out here of people who really know their stuff, many of them disabled or ill themselves - and they are largely being ignored by the upper echelons of Labour and I think that's a crying shame. There are a few really good MPs on this stuff, but they're not on the front bench.

I haven't been well enough to pound pavements lately, but one thing that has impressed me about our local candidate is his willingness to listen to expert opinion. He knows he hasn't got all the answers, and uses his team for advice when he needs it.
This is what Reeves should be doing - there is any number of people who know the system inside out and could help her out. No MP has the time to truly get on top of a brief like W&P without help; it's complicated and difficult, as I know too well.

For me, it feels like this past 5 years has been a lot longer. It's not so much that people have short memories, I think they are just bone weary. I know it's not good for my health to be constantly living in fear this way, and I can understand why people in my position or worse get angry and frustrated - like most negative emotions, those things are fear-based.

I'll keep doing what I can for Matthew and my local party. We're having a big do next week, with Matthew setting out his stall and various talks and whatnot, and I'm hoping it will be well-attended.
I want a Labour government for all reasons - but on social security, although they're going to better than the Tories whatever they do, many of us are disappointed and it's very hard to convince people that if they vote Labour there may some jam tomorrow.
A lot of disabled people just aren't buying it.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:22 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
refitman wrote:
Rebecca wrote: Or perhaps we could all chip in?
It's actually pretty cheap to run. I just opted for the lowest resource tier when we set it up, not knowing how much we would use.

I also need to update the background software at some point. Will involve taking the site down for a bit, so I'll do it late one night.
Not May 7th though.

Why, is something happening?

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:25 pm

I'd also like to thank everyone who makes this site possible - I do appreciate it.

I'm not in a position to offer any contribution to funding, as I said earlier I've been without my ESA for months.

If I ever get the backdating, though.......

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:28 pm

From the BBC tonight regarding the egotist princess Dave Cameron:

"...James Landale said the development was "significant" as it was the first time the prime minister had formally accepted any offer from the broadcasters on the debates.

But he cautioned that it did not mean any debate would definitely go ahead, saying Mr Cameron may have been "a touch premature" with his announcement."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31928638" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From AS' blog at the G

That’s all from me for today.

Thanks for the comments.

UPDATE: My colleague John Plunkett has just sent me this on the latest from the broadcasters.

The offer of a single TV debate, to be broadcast by ITV on 2 April, is understood to have split the coalition of broadcasters, which includes the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Sky, who until now have managed to maintain a united front.

“With hindsight we might have acted differently but the most important thing was that the broadcasters were seen to be acting together,” said one source with knowledge of the negotiations.

Another put it more succinctly: “It’s a bit crap, isn’t it?” describing it as a “worst case scenario”.

Broadcasters’ determination to hold firm to their proposals to hold two seven way debates on BBC1 and ITV, and a single head to head between David Cameron and Ed Miliband jointly hosted by Channel 4 and Sky News, is said to have crumbled as the proposed dates for the debates - and the prospect of “empty chairing” the prime minister - drew near.

Cameron’s willingness to take part in a single TV debate, described by Downing Street earlier this month as its “final offer”, made it even more difficult for broadcasters to stage a debate without the prime minister.

“The broadcasters seem to have been split but not until the final few weeks,” said one industry executive. “The strategy has always been to avoid any confrontation with Cameron.”

The source added: “They have reached agreement but not without dissenting voices. This is not a great outcome.”

ITV was so confident about securing the seven way leaders debate that it is said to have already started building the set for the broadcast, which will be hosted by ITV News presenter Julie Etchingham.

There was still no official response from broadcasters by 6pm on Tuesday.

(my emphasis)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... fa06b22a42" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think the broadcasters are happy about today's performance from Dave. I don't indeed. The BBC can't offer Dave what Dave is parading around with. Please read the BBC article I've linked. The dance in the text is subtle but clear.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:31 pm

Apr 29th 2010
Labour's record
Things could only get better

Labour has made some big changes to Britain and achieved considerable successes. But during its 13 years in office there have been grave disappointments, too

[url]http://www.economist.com/node/16004271[/url]

Did Labour’s social policies fail or succeed 1997-2010?
Posted on August 15, 2013 by Ben Baumberg

https://inequalitiesblog.wordpress.com/ ... 1997-2010/

A couple of interesting links about Labour's record whilst in office last time.

I also found Alistair Darlings autobiography Back from the Brink 1,000 Days at Number 11, in a charity shop today.

I love the quote on the back cover:

"I don't believe in panicking before it's absolutely necessary but I came close to considering it on the morning of 7 Oct2008"

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:44 pm

ephemerid wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Ephie agree entirely with what you're saying.

I do wonder though if people's memories are deliberately short. Although it's seems like forever the Tories have only been in for five years. Before that although things weren't perfect under Labour, the less well off and less able bodied were at least looked after fairly well.
How can they possibly think that somehow Labour has changed and will now ignore them?

Do they think people like you and RR2 who spend time actively helping, and others like me, lazier but donating from our State Pensions are wasting our time? Do they want the young who are putting so much effort into the campaign to become cynics and not bother?

I am disgusted with some of them. They should know better.

You make very good points, as ever, OhSo.

I think peoples' memories are short sometimes; but in the case of social security, we have to remember that it was New Labour who brought ESA and the WCA, and sanctions for ill people for the first time.
Although those sanctions weren't used anything like as often as they are now, those of us who have been involved with this stuff for years objected to them at the time and New Labour were deaf to us.
Many people who campaign on this stuff felt betrayed by New Labour, and I have some sympathy with that; all it takes is one misinterpreted or cherry-picked soundbite and that anger comes out.

When people who are ill and tired, on poverty benefits and in fear of them being removed, having their rights taken away and being vilified in the media, are given what they think is a bit of hope - like Ed saying he will keep the ILF, then Green saying the opposite within days - then see a headline like the offerings today, I think it's not unreasonable for them to feel aggrieved, frankly.

There has been an unwillingness to engage with the sensible campaigners, like the Spartacus group and some of the better writers and bloggers (I'm thinking Simon Duffy, Brian Wernham, Nick at ilegal) who have some very good ideas and are much more knowledgeable on all this than the politicians.
There is a massive resource out here of people who really know their stuff, many of them disabled or ill themselves - and they are largely being ignored by the upper echelons of Labour and I think that's a crying shame. There are a few really good MPs on this stuff, but they're not on the front bench.

I haven't been well enough to pound pavements lately, but one thing that has impressed me about our local candidate is his willingness to listen to expert opinion. He knows he hasn't got all the answers, and uses his team for advice when he needs it.
This is what Reeves should be doing - there is any number of people who know the system inside out and could help her out. No MP has the time to truly get on top of a brief like W&P without help; it's complicated and difficult, as I know too well.

For me, it feels like this past 5 years has been a lot longer. It's not so much that people have short memories, I think they are just bone weary. I know it's not good for my health to be constantly living in fear this way, and I can understand why people in my position or worse get angry and frustrated - like most negative emotions, those things are fear-based.

I'll keep doing what I can for Matthew and my local party. We're having a big do next week, with Matthew setting out his stall and various talks and whatnot, and I'm hoping it will be well-attended.
I want a Labour government for all reasons - but on social security, although they're going to better than the Tories whatever they do, many of us are disappointed and it's very hard to convince people that if they vote Labour there may some jam tomorrow.
A lot of disabled people just aren't buying it.

I didn't learn about it until a couple of years ago but Blair told Alistair Campbell and a couple of close aides that he wasn't Labour. [Alistair Campbells diaries]

So far Ed is.

May is going to be the time when we have to take a leap of faith.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:45 pm

I got knocked off the website.
I made it back.
Obviously.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:51 pm

I adore everyone's comments - can you all please know I thank you all without my having to press the thank you button? I'm obliged to you. It takes time for the page to reload after I thank you. I might as well spend that time writing a physical thank you post.

I've mentioned this before today - not using the thank you button because of the time it takes to reload the page - I'm reminding myself. Please don't hesitate to let me know if my not thanking individual posts is too much to bear & I'll do it - I'll thank - the hell with the time it takes.

xx
JA

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:55 pm

I love this girl, I love her voice and I love her politics - (and I think - don't quote me - she's dyslexic so I feel an affinity with her)

"Brit winner Paloma Faith, who went on anti-Thatcher rallies in her pushchair, has asked Guardian columnist Owen Jones to appear with her on stage. It’s time pop stars stopped being sheepish, says the outspoken singer"
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/m ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:57 pm

Evening all - school meetings and library is where I've been hiding myself today.

Did we see the Edu Select Committee report on Trojan Horse? The telegraph is clearly not going to play up this bit:

80. The Trojan Horse affair epitomises many of the questions and concerns expressed elsewhere about the changing school landscape and the overlapping roles of the organisations responsible for oversight of schools. In this light, it is less about extremism than about governance and the ability of local and central agencies to respond to whistle-blowers and challenges posed by individual schools. We note once again that no evidence of extremism or radicalisation, apart from a single isolated incident, was found and that there is no evidence of a sustained plot nor of a similar situation pertaining elsewhere in the country.

81. It is important to return to the need to ensure a good education for the children at the schools affected. They, and their schools, will continue to require support from local and central agencies to make this a reality.

So when do we get Gilligan's apology for shit-stirring?

The pupils at those schools are going to that label round there neck wherever they go..."Oh, you went to that school?"

I noted the other week that he was at it again with Small Heath where h came up with a quote about the narrowing of the curriculum which wasn't in the report - quite the opposite in fact.

Nasty little man. And to think he worked at the BBC...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 9:59 pm

Thinking about it...

It's not so much what Labour want or don't want to do.
Politicians have pandered and bowed down to the twisted greedy views that have become the norm. Now it dictates what they do. And that will be harder to turn around and do away with, than passing any bill in the HoC.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:05 pm

citizenJA wrote:I adore everyone's comments - can you all please know I thank you all without my having to press the thank you button? I'm obliged to you. It takes time for the page to reload after I thank you. I might as well spend that time writing a physical thank you post.

I've mentioned this before today - not using the thank you button because of the time it takes to reload the page - I'm reminding myself. Please don't hesitate to let me know if my not thanking individual posts is too much to bear & I'll do it - I'll thank - the hell with the time it takes.

xx
JA

I use the thank you button a lot. I use it to thank, to acknowledge I've read a post, or that I agree with it.

I am trying to wean myself off but not being very successful. It's making me feel guilty because when you've taken the trouble, it is nice to have a post acknowledged.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:08 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Ephie agree entirely with what you're saying.

I do wonder though if people's memories are deliberately short. Although it's seems like forever the Tories have only been in for five years. Before that although things weren't perfect under Labour, the less well off and less able bodied were at least looked after fairly well.
How can they possibly think that somehow Labour has changed and will now ignore them?

Do they think people like you and RR2 who spend time actively helping, and others like me, lazier but donating from our State Pensions are wasting our time? Do they want the young who are putting so much effort into the campaign to become cynics and not bother?

I am disgusted with some of them. They should know better.

You make very good points, as ever, OhSo.

I think peoples' memories are short sometimes; but in the case of social security, we have to remember that it was New Labour who brought ESA and the WCA, and sanctions for ill people for the first time.
Although those sanctions weren't used anything like as often as they are now, those of us who have been involved with this stuff for years objected to them at the time and New Labour were deaf to us.
Many people who campaign on this stuff felt betrayed by New Labour, and I have some sympathy with that; all it takes is one misinterpreted or cherry-picked soundbite and that anger comes out.

When people who are ill and tired, on poverty benefits and in fear of them being removed, having their rights taken away and being vilified in the media, are given what they think is a bit of hope - like Ed saying he will keep the ILF, then Green saying the opposite within days - then see a headline like the offerings today, I think it's not unreasonable for them to feel aggrieved, frankly.

There has been an unwillingness to engage with the sensible campaigners, like the Spartacus group and some of the better writers and bloggers (I'm thinking Simon Duffy, Brian Wernham, Nick at ilegal) who have some very good ideas and are much more knowledgeable on all this than the politicians.
There is a massive resource out here of people who really know their stuff, many of them disabled or ill themselves - and they are largely being ignored by the upper echelons of Labour and I think that's a crying shame. There are a few really good MPs on this stuff, but they're not on the front bench.

I haven't been well enough to pound pavements lately, but one thing that has impressed me about our local candidate is his willingness to listen to expert opinion. He knows he hasn't got all the answers, and uses his team for advice when he needs it.
This is what Reeves should be doing - there is any number of people who know the system inside out and could help her out. No MP has the time to truly get on top of a brief like W&P without help; it's complicated and difficult, as I know too well.

For me, it feels like this past 5 years has been a lot longer. It's not so much that people have short memories, I think they are just bone weary. I know it's not good for my health to be constantly living in fear this way, and I can understand why people in my position or worse get angry and frustrated - like most negative emotions, those things are fear-based.

I'll keep doing what I can for Matthew and my local party. We're having a big do next week, with Matthew setting out his stall and various talks and whatnot, and I'm hoping it will be well-attended.
I want a Labour government for all reasons - but on social security, although they're going to better than the Tories whatever they do, many of us are disappointed and it's very hard to convince people that if they vote Labour there may some jam tomorrow.
A lot of disabled people just aren't buying it.
I didn't learn about it until a couple of years ago but Blair told Alistair Campbell and a couple of close aides that he wasn't Labour. [Alistair Campbells diaries]

So far Ed is.

May is going to be the time when we have to take a leap of faith.

Yes, Ed Miliband is Labour. I've watched as best I can from my regular person's vantage point. I've had the chance to spend the last few years paying attention to politics here.

Never did like that Blair. His daddy was a Tory. Where's the Labour, Blair? I yelled at the television (I still watched television in the late 90's, sometimes). Just didn't add up. Think of our trauma during the Thatcher / Reagan Era.

No way was Alistair Darling close to panicking 2008 - okay, maybe - I think his first reaction to the person on the other end of the phone demanding government gotta help lest the ATM's would go dry was to burst out laughing.

Dude, you shoulda made them pay for it...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:11 pm

Ohso says it all better using fewer words.
thank you

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:16 pm

God! I've just tried to go on Twitter again. Replied to one Tweet, but do you know what, they'll not take the slightest notice. It's spread from the disabled to people on low pay now.

It's got me so pissed I'll have a harder job sleeping than I normally do...

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:29 pm

Rachel ReevesVerified account
‏@RachelReevesMP Labour are the party who represents everyone, whether they're in work or out of work. That means a strong safety net 4 ppl who need support

The comments under this are despicable. Really running out of patience with the lot of them - sorry if that offends, but the comment was taken well out of context and people just ran with it and now refuse to accept the truth.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:31 pm

Tish wrote:According to the Guardian, the replacement for the two way debate would be this:

"Cameron and Miliband would be interviewed by Jeremy Paxman and then questioned by a studio audience in a Sky/Channel 4 special on 26 March. But the two leaders would appear separately – never sharing the stage, depriving Miliband of the chance to confront Cameron directly."

I don't think the format of that is too bad, it would give Miliband the exposure, which is what he needs, and everyone would know that Cameron was refusing to debate him directly, so he would still be seen as chickening out. But 26th March is far too early, it needs to be held in the last couple of weeks of the campaign so its still in the public mind.

If Cameron is determined to dodge a head to head it's probably the best we're going to get, it's basically the same as if Cameron was empty chaired, but giving him a right to reply, which OFCOM would probably have insisted on anyway.

You might be right, but in my opinion, stick to the original schedule and EMPTY CHAIR THE HAM FACED PISSTRUMPET.

(sorry about the shoutiness, but such evasion whilst claiming that Miliband is 'weak' is simply pathetic, matched only by the broadcasters' timidity and supine arse licking)

Post by **adam** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:33 pm

YouGov/Sun

Lab 36
Con 34
UKIP12
Lib Dem 7
Green 6

UKIP lowest with yougov since September. Con and Lab both +1 - lead holding steady.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:34 pm

StephenDolan wrote:http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-03- ... art-in-one

That better not be true.

That's bloody outrageous! Who will have their full manifesto out 'in the next couple of weeks' for a start!? Cameron is just constantly spanner-throwing and it should not be allowed to work. Him saying he'll make himself available for anything as long as it doesn't have 'debate' in the title, is ludicrous. I'd suggest the broadcasters just change the name of all the debates, then. An Evening With Party Leaders. And Audience with... The Big Conversation. Grand Leadership Designs. Politics Factor. Britain's Got Party Leaders. I'm A Party Leader Get Me Out Of Here. Party Leaders Street. A Question of Leadership. Any Party Leaders? (just on Radio 4) My Embarrassing Leader – that one's just Cameron...

Ofcom's letter to the broadcasters on impartiality comes (fairly) hot on the heels of the rumour that Cameron was going to get 'his own tv programme' so it might not be related to this current rumour.

Slightly tangentially: Watched the second of the BBC THREE Free Speech series tonight, subheaded 'Battle of the Kingmakers' – which was interesting. The first episode was called 'I'm Ed Miliband, Ask Me Anything.' Next episode (third) is called 'I'm a Conservative, Ask Me Anything' and has the following blurb:

The Conservative Party is under the microscope in an election special. Party chairman Grant Shapps and a panel of those from across the Conservative spectrum face a live audience of over a hundred voters aged 16-34 for an unscripted hour of tough and uncensored questions.

So: Ed Miliband (Leader of the Labour Party) did the first one all on his own; the leaders of the SNP, the Greens, and Plaid Cymru, all appeared for the second one; and the leader of the Conservative Party is nowhere to be seen for the third! Too frit to face questions from a roomful of 100 'young people.'

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:36 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Dear

We are now just 50 days away from the general election and I want to thank you for everything you're doing to campaign for a Labour victory in May. As always, this report details some of the things I have been up to in the European Parliament and across the South East of England.

Campaigning for Labour

Here in the South East we must win all of our key seats if we are going to secure the Labour government that our country so badly needs; to raise the Minimum Wage, freeze energy bills, build thousands more homes, repeal the Health and Social Care Act, ban exploitative zero hours contracts, scrap the Bedroom Tax and much, much more!

In the coming weeks I will continue to get out on the doorstep as much as I can in our key seats including this Wednesday in Reading West where we will be joined by Gianna Pittella MEP (leader of the Socialists and Democrats in the European Parliament). We will be meeting at 10am outside the Co-operative, 21 The Triangle, Reading RG30 4RN. After campaigning members will have the opportunity to chat with Gianni in a nearby café.

I've also launched an auction to raise money for our key seats. To take part all you have to do is email AnnelieseJDodds@gmail.com with which item, or items, you want along with your bid and the highest bidder wins! The auction ends at 5pm on Friday 3rd April and winning bidders will be notified by email. The auction items are:

The National Minimum Wage Act signed by Tony Blair (£50 reserve)
Afternoon tea in the House of Commons
Bottle of Italian Limoncello signed by Gianni Pittella
'Five days in May' signed by Lord Adonis
'Because Britain deserves better' 1997 election poster signed by Tony Blair (£50 reserve)
Bottle of House of Commons Whisky signed by Ed Miliband (£50 reserve)
Hamper of South East delights
Three bottles of Alsatian wine

The South East's Voice in Europe

Lots of discussion in the European Parliament focused on what more can be done to help Europe recover from the financial crisis and return to growth. These debates are hugely important as they get to the heart of how we can improve life for people and small businesses right across the South East. In particular the EU is setting up a huge new investment fund worth €315bn -- and trying to make finance more readily available to businesses (so called "capital markets union").

We need to make sure that as a region we make the most of these opportunities and make sure that everyone pays their fair share

Parliament has voted to set up a 'Special Committee' to look into dodgy tax practices. I will be a member of that Committee, and am also leading the work in Parliament to make recommendations for how the law should be changed to stop these things happening in future. You can read a blog I wrote about taxation, and let me know your ideas for how things should change, on my website.

I also called for the Commission to come forward with clear proposals for mandatory country of origin labelling for all meat in processed food and voted for measures to make it easier to prosecute foreign drivers who commit traffic offences in the UK.

Working across the South East

Unlike UKIP MEPs, I am working hard across our whole region and in the parliament on the issues constituents say matter most to them. Like our fantastic Labour councillors and MPs, I want to show people the significant and necessary difference that electing a Labour representative can make.

In February I supported 'Time to Talk Day', joined Chuka Umunna MP and Victoria Groulef, our MP candidate for Reading West, to launch our South East economic plan, and supported the Woman to Woman tour when it visited Milton Keynes.

I have also been active in taking up the issues and concerns that constituents have been contacting me about; since May 2014 I have responded to 10,423 constituents' letters and emails on a wide range of casework and policy issues with 83% of constituents rating these replies as very good or excellent.

Keeping in touch
In a region with the same size population as Austria keeping in touch with constituents isn't always easy. My small team and I are working hard to use every tool available to us. There are regular updates on my website, Facebook page, and YouTube channel. I get out on the doorstep speaking directly with constituents as often as I can and in February I met local residents in Brighton, Crawley, Dover, Hastings, Hove, Milton Keynes, Oxford, and Reading. I frequently tweet about what I'm up to and write a monthly e-newsletter to constituents.

I'm also trying to get our message across in the media and have been undertaking interviews with local and regional news agencies throughout our region.

I hope you have found this a useful insight into what I've been up to and you can read my full report here. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to get in touch.

With best wishes,

Anneliese Dodds MEP

I thought Ernst might be interested in this.

Yeah, I am. Those reserves look ridiculous to me.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:44 pm

LadyCentauria wrote: Slightly tangentially: Watched the second of the BBC THREE Free Speech series tonight, subheaded 'Battle of the Kingmakers' – which was interesting. The first episode was called 'I'm Ed Miliband, Ask Me Anything.' Next episode (third) is called 'I'm a Conservative, Ask Me Anything' and has the following blurb:

The Conservative Party is under the microscope in an election special. Party chairman Grant Shapps and a panel of those from across the Conservative spectrum face a live audience of over a hundred voters aged 16-34 for an unscripted hour of tough and uncensored questions.
So: Ed Miliband (Leader of the Labour Party) did the first one all on his own; the leaders of the SNP, the Greens, and Plaid Cymru, all appeared for the second one; and the leader of the Conservative Party is nowhere to be seen for the third! Too frit to face questions from a roomful of 100 'young people.'

We predicted that Callme wouldn't do it, didn't we. I think the young people will draw their own conclusions.

Are Clegg and Farage getting a programme each or one between them?

Post by **adam** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:47 pm

There's a less promising poll from TNS earlier today...

Con 33 (+5)
Lab 32 (-3)
and the rest, but Smithson says that TNS seem to have changed their methodology and that probably explains the extent of the swing.

Labour's 36 with YouGov tonight is their best this year.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:48 pm

Watching Newsnight, it'd be nice if they introduced Jon Moulton as "Tory donor" rather than "Better Capital"

usual crap about the shocking state of the economy that Osborne inherited and the too-large government that it was necessary to slash.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:56 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:I love this girl, I love her voice and I love her politics - (and I think - don't quote me - she's dyslexic so I feel an affinity with her)

"Brit winner Paloma Faith, who went on anti-Thatcher rallies in her pushchair, has asked Guardian columnist Owen Jones to appear with her on stage. It’s time pop stars stopped being sheepish, says the outspoken singer"
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/m ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yup. Top woman. About time a few more famous people nailed their cocks to the block - I do suspect that Prof. Brian is one of us, and we've got Eddie Izzard and Bill Bailey amongst others. And Phil Collins and Gary Barlow can fuck off, with, or without, ceremony.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:56 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
Tish wrote:According to the Guardian, the replacement for the two way debate would be this:

"Cameron and Miliband would be interviewed by Jeremy Paxman and then questioned by a studio audience in a Sky/Channel 4 special on 26 March. But the two leaders would appear separately – never sharing the stage, depriving Miliband of the chance to confront Cameron directly."

I don't think the format of that is too bad, it would give Miliband the exposure, which is what he needs, and everyone would know that Cameron was refusing to debate him directly, so he would still be seen as chickening out. But 26th March is far too early, it needs to be held in the last couple of weeks of the campaign so its still in the public mind.

If Cameron is determined to dodge a head to head it's probably the best we're going to get, it's basically the same as if Cameron was empty chaired, but giving him a right to reply, which OFCOM would probably have insisted on anyway.
You might be right, but in my opinion, stick to the original schedule and EMPTY CHAIR THE HAM FACED PISSTRUMPET.

(sorry about the shoutiness, but such evasion whilst claiming that Miliband is 'weak' is simply pathetic, matched only by the broadcasters' timidity and supine arse licking)

You're going to get your wish - the broadcasters can't cave now. The BBC article I posted earlier is falling all over itself giving Dave a plush but the fact remains they've got to obey the law on this deal.

...James Landale said the development was "significant" as it was the first time the prime minister had formally accepted any offer from the broadcasters on the debates.
But he cautioned that it did not mean any debate would definitely go ahead, saying Mr Cameron may have been "a touch premature" with his announcement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31928638" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I post this not because I want to believe it.
I post this because both the G & the BBC can't do what Dave is trying to force happen.

"There was still no official response from broadcasters by 6pm on Tuesday."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... fa06b22a42" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:58 pm

gilsey wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote: Slightly tangentially: Watched the second of the BBC THREE Free Speech series tonight, subheaded 'Battle of the Kingmakers' – which was interesting. The first episode was called 'I'm Ed Miliband, Ask Me Anything.' Next episode (third) is called 'I'm a Conservative, Ask Me Anything' and has the following blurb:

The Conservative Party is under the microscope in an election special. Party chairman Grant Shapps and a panel of those from across the Conservative spectrum face a live audience of over a hundred voters aged 16-34 for an unscripted hour of tough and uncensored questions.
So: Ed Miliband (Leader of the Labour Party) did the first one all on his own; the leaders of the SNP, the Greens, and Plaid Cymru, all appeared for the second one; and the leader of the Conservative Party is nowhere to be seen for the third! Too frit to face questions from a roomful of 100 'young people.'
We predicted that Callme wouldn't do it, didn't we. I think the young people will draw their own conclusions.

Are Clegg and Farage getting a programme each or one between them?

Oh my god.
Grant Shapps?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 10:59 pm

labour majority
woo hoo

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 11:05 pm

Nearly all MPs represent political parties.
The party with the most MPs after a general election normally forms the Government.
The next largest party becomes the official Opposition.
If an MP does not have a political party, they are known as an 'Independent'.

http://www.parliament.uk/about/mps-and- ... rtysystem/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 17 Mar, 2015 11:35 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Evening all - school meetings and library is where I've been hiding myself today.

Did we see the Edu Select Committee report on Trojan Horse? The telegraph is clearly not going to play up this bit:

80. The Trojan Horse affair epitomises many of the questions and concerns expressed elsewhere about the changing school landscape and the overlapping roles of the organisations responsible for oversight of schools. In this light, it is less about extremism than about governance and the ability of local and central agencies to respond to whistle-blowers and challenges posed by individual schools. We note once again that no evidence of extremism or radicalisation, apart from a single isolated incident, was found and that there is no evidence of a sustained plot nor of a similar situation pertaining elsewhere in the country.

81. It is important to return to the need to ensure a good education for the children at the schools affected. They, and their schools, will continue to require support from local and central agencies to make this a reality.
So when do we get Gilligan's apology for shit-stirring?

The pupils at those schools are going to that label round there neck wherever they go..."Oh, you went to that school?"

I noted the other week that he was at it again with Small Heath where h came up with a quote about the narrowing of the curriculum which wasn't in the report - quite the opposite in fact.

Nasty little man. And to think he worked at the BBC...

Where does that leave Clarke's report?