Thursday 19th March 2015

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:05 am

utopiandreams wrote:Edit: just wanted to add, for all this talk of how useless Ed is, don't others agree with me that he has certainly grown into the job?

Excuse me as it's particularly bad form, but since Lonewolfie and I have already mentioned (dislike of) emoticons and I recently spoke of (our) jokes with AndrewDrew in the other place, my phrasing of 'agree with me' was taken directly from the Tory Whip's Handbook for Backbenchers' Questions, given that they're typically the ones to traduce Ed.

Post by **adam** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:06 am

Interesting poll findings on Osborne from Survation for the Mirror

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:07 am

A long read, full of figures but worth reading through (at least once!) http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/generalelection/ ... nd-future/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:07 am

ephemerid wrote:Has anyone seen Jack Monroe's piece on the G today?

She is 27 - and talks about "campaigning" as though she'd been doing it for years on end.

I had some time for her until recently. No more.

She's taking some stick BTL.

Thanks for the tip, I've just read it.

Like greeting old friends, I embraced the importance placed on a national health service, on public transport, on sustainable energy, on fair pay for fair work. Here you were, all the time.

So, Jack wants a party that is strong on the NHS, wants a living wage & sustainable energy.

Step forward Ed Miliband's Labour party !

She knows fine well that Labour will always protect the NHS, has been shouting about a living wage for the last 5 years & some of their councils already subscribe to it & as for sustainable energy - well, Dale Vince of Ecotricity is suitably convinced by the Labour commitment that he has donated real hard cash to them !

Ok, I would agree with her on the immigration rhetoric - I don't like it either but in some seats where Ukip is a threat, Labour has to consider those susceptible to the kipper message. I imagine there are a fair few of those people - we hear them all the time.

She has stepped aboard the Green bandwagon - I hope she realises how few of her dreams will come true any time soon.

FWIW I did my first ever phone banking session last night in Hove. Hove is under a green council & I lost count of the number of people saying they would never vote green again because of the chaos they have brought to the city.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:08 am

James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 5 mins5 minutes ago

Why on earth haven't Lib Dem whips packed chamber with their MPs for #yellowbudget? @dannyalexander struggling

Labour Whips retweeted
Tim Sculthorpe ‏@timsculthorpe 6 mins6 minutes ago London, England

A very large proportion of the Lib Dem party is not here as Danny Alexander rubbishes #Budget2015 at the Government Despatch Box.

Edited to add

James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 11 mins11 minutes ago
Bercow makes @dannyalexander's life awkward warning using dispatch box 'for purely party political purposes' abuse of Commons #yellowbudget

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:17 am

Mick retweeted
KillingBritain ‏@killingbritain 20 mins20 minutes ago

Sack Esther McVey - By Alun Parry
The official campaign song for #Wirral TUC's Sack Esther McVey campaign.

https://youtu.be/qi9XM-GtPhI%20%20#GE2015

For the election night play list perhaps?

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:18 am

AS:

Labour MPs try to shout down Danny Alexander

Of course they are ! It's an utter farce.

LDs signed up to the coalition budget yesterday & then stand at the despatch box today ripping it to shreds & offering their own effort !

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:21 am

ephemerid wrote:Has anyone seen Jack Monroe's piece on the G today?

She is 27 - and talks about "campaigning" as though she'd been doing it for years on end.

I had some time for her until recently. No more.

She's taking some stick BTL.

I posted a sincere, short & nice message thanking her & everyone else for voting.
She's a young person. She's trying to figure it out. I recognise a little of myself as a kid when I read Jack Monroe's latest work. Apologies if I sound patronsing. I admire her work, what's she done for herself, family & community.

I wanted to give her the list of policies she claims Labour doesn't have.

MENDING THE FRACTURED ECONOMY
Smarter state, better jobs
Final report of the Adonis Review
An independent review for the Labour party, supported by Policy Network

The fractured economy
Chapter 1: Wanted – more growth companies and clusters

http://www.yourbritain.org.uk/uploads/e ... Review.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For example.
As an aside anyone else spot the word 'cluster'?
Okay, stop laughing.
It's a welcome indication of policy alignment & party coordination when different people use terms they've discussed together.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:24 am

The policy paper I posted I used while I was thinking about the Living Wage Jack Monroe mentioned she wanted from a political party.
I opened up my bookmarked Labour policy files & am spoiled for choice.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:28 am

pk1 wrote:AS:

Labour MPs try to shout down Danny Alexander
Of course they are ! It's an utter farce.

LDs signed up to the coalition budget yesterday & then stand at the despatch box today ripping it to shreds & offering their own effort !

Their collective head has gone. They've lost it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:29 am

utopiandreams wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:Edit: just wanted to add, for all this talk of how useless Ed is, don't others agree with me that he has certainly grown into the job?
Excuse me as it's particularly bad form, but since Lonewolfie and I have already mentioned (dislike of) emoticons and I recently spoke of (our) jokes with AndrewDrew in the other place, my phrasing of 'agree with me' was taken directly from the Tory Whip's Handbook for Backbenchers' Questions, given that they're typically the ones to traduce Ed.

I agree with you. Ed Miliband is a grown up in his job. Think how difficult it must have been & continues to be coming into the Labour party leadership position after Blair & Brown? Now, I ask you. Yes, difficult.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:29 am

Willow904 wrote: Sorry for the rant. I think my exasperation with idealistic young people who won't vote Labour because, you know, "Iraq" has been simmering under the surface for a while. If you want to be that idealistic you're gonna have to go live on an island somewhere in the South Pacific and shun the modern world in its entirety because everything we do is tainted - from the mobile phone made in a sweatshop in China - to the solar panels made with metals mined by children.

I don't think its just Iraq that puts a lot of young people of Labour, I think its partly becouse they grew up under a Labour government that was in power for nearly all of their lives, so as far as they are concerned Labour are "the establishment" who must be opposed. My sister in law, who was 19 at the last election, voted Tory, basically becouse she felt it was "time for a change," and she had no memory of what the Tories were like last time. She says she won't vote for them again this year, but she won't vote Labour either, becouse she sees them as to blame for everything that ever went wrong with the country during her life up to now.

She's currently trying to decide whether to vote UKIP or Green (!!!), two parties which clearly have absolutely nothing in common, other than their carefully cultivated "outsider stauts." And it's not that she's stupid, she's just woefully uninformed about what any of the parties actually stand for, has no real interest in politics outside of the elections, and gets all of her information from either her parents (who've morphed into full on Daily Mail reading UKIPers in the last five years) or from people on Facebook.

I don't know what Labour can do really to appeal to people like that, I had hoped that the horrors of actually seeing the Tories in action would make them realise that even if Labour aren't perfect they're clearly preferable to the alternative. But maybe that kind of acceptance of reality only comes later in life. I'm pretty sure that young me (a kind of Rik from the Young Ones dressed like Madonna), would have had no truck with such lily livered compromise, so I'm kind of loath to criticise young people for their lack of acceptance of the status quo.

That guy in the Indie does sound like a dick though, especially as he clearly IS well informed and DOES know what the issues and problems are. And refusing to vote for anyone just makes him an irrelevance, at least my sister in law is trying to engage with the system rather than just going "you all suck". And are you still classed as a "young person" when you're 28? Shouldn't you have grown up a bit by then?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:34 am

@Ephemerid
Beautiful description of your Labour canvassing in Wales.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:36 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:

'Toxic smog from the Continent set to shroud Britain'

Oh no. My head aches already & toxic smog gonna shroud the area?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:41 am

Sincerity is the finest persuader.
I encourage people to vote.
Just make it a plan & vote hard.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:42 am

Owen Smith MP ‏@OwenSmithMP 21 mins21 minutes ago
Down the rabbit hole of Liberal fantasy, Danny Alexander tells HoC that his 'Alternative Budget' has been 'signed off' by the Coalition. Eh?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:46 am

Tish wrote:
That guy in the Indie does sound like a dick though, especially as he clearly IS well informed and DOES know what the issues and problems are. And refusing to vote for anyone just makes him an irrelevance, at least my sister in law is trying to engage with the system rather than just going "you all suck". And are you still classed as a "young person" when you're 28? Shouldn't you have grown up a bit by then?

28? No way you can be classed as a young person. Probably sat down and thought about what story line would sell best. Naughty!

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:47 am

ephemerid wrote:After the discussion on Gidiot's appearance yesterday, Romanesque and possibly Caligula-like, I have an idea!

Cartoonist Sir Martin Rowson depicts Clegg as a continually diminishing Pinocchio puppet who has now been rendered so useless that the recent cartoons show him as a stick of wood propping something up somewhere in the fine detail of the work. Sometimes I can't find him.

I am thinking that perhaps Gidiot, whose avoirdupois is evaporating at a rate of knots, could be drawn as a body rapidly disintegrating and retreating into its' nose. I can't be the only person who has noticed that as he gets thinner his nose looks bigger.....

Of course there may be no room left inside his nose to accommodate his shrinking skeleton.
Full of snow, it is, allegedly.

Rowson said he likes drawing Osborne because his head seems like just a lump of gristle (sorry, that's the phrase he used), boneless. He imagines him wearing the hard hat when he's factory visiting to stop his head falling over.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:49 am

adam wrote:Interesting poll findings on Osborne from Survation for the Mirror

Mr gilsey, who takes virtually no interest in current affairs, hates Osborne.

Post by **adam** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:03 pm

A story I linked to in the Guardian in last night's thread is now the top story on the Telegraph's home page

How George Osborne's Budget Jokes Cost Britain £81million

Edited to add... in an 'isn't this interesting' way, not as in 'all hail the power of FTN'.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:14 pm

Isabel Hardman
‏@IsabelHardman These might be more useful for Lib Dems in next few weeks

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:23 pm

For the record - my views on the Jack Monroe piece:

- At 27 she is not a young person.
- What she is doing will directly help elect a Tory government.
- She doesn't care because she is now well off and presumably deriving some personal benefit from her status as a Green campaigner.

She can slap on a blue rosette and (with apologies to Bender of Futurama fame) -

Bite my Shiny Metal Ass.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:31 pm

StephenDolan wrote:A long read, full of figures but worth reading through (at least once!) http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/generalelection/ ... nd-future/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Election economics: austerity past, present and future
John van Reenen

Good information here from the author

By contrast, both Labour and the Liberal Democrats are committed to balancing the current budget (that is, excluding public investment). Hence they could reduce spending by as little as 1.9% and 1.7% respectively and still meet their fiscal rules.

The question of whether public investment is included in the fiscal rule is an important one. It makes sense to treat capital differently from current spending as investment creates an asset that can aid growth in the future. And the UK has a poor track record on investment in transport, energy and housing compared with other countries as shown by the LSE Growth Commission.

http://www.lse.ac.uk/researchAndExperti ... Report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my bold) & I've posted the website for the pdf the author linked at the end of sentence 'LSE Growth Commission'. The two Labour party documents I've linked below contain similar public infrastructure investment proposals as those recommended in the LSE report. I understand most voters in the UK are rarely in position to wade through policy proposals & how we fund them. Time being short & inclination scant I understand. It's important though. It matters. It's the difference between having public transportation, medical facilities & the staff that make them go, roads, schools & other such civilisation niceties.

http://www.yourbritain.org.uk/uploads/e ... Review.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.yourbritain.org.uk/uploads/e ... Report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Are the LibDem policy proposals hiding or are they mythological? I ain't seen hide nor hair of them.
God damn Tory governments do nothing but destroy then Labour got to clean it up.
The connection between government policy pursued & the outcome lived by regular people doesn't always happen.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:32 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Has anyone seen Jack Monroe's piece on the G today?

She is 27 - and talks about "campaigning" as though she'd been doing it for years on end.

I had some time for her until recently. No more.

She's taking some stick BTL.
It's a shame, but my guess is that she'll be back in time. Labour supporters attacking her is not going to help anyone. She's made her choice, and 27 is still young enough to be a bit naive - I was older than that when I voted LibDem, after all. I only hope she doesn't find out it was a mistake as a result of five more years of Tory government.

I've probably just persuaded another local Green party to put up a candidate against Labour. Oh well.

I don't see the point of attacking her, I have just filed her as a muppet and set the ignore flag.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:33 pm

I was stupid young at 27 years old.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:41 pm

Warrington AQI: Warrington Real-time Air Quality Index (AQI)
155
Unhealthy
Updated on Thursday 11:00
Temp: 9°C

Warrington, United Kingdom Air Pollution measured on Thursday 11:00: Warrington overall air quality index is 155
Warrington PM2.5 (fine particulate matter) AQI is 155 - Warrington PM10 (respirable particulate matter) AQI is 53 - Warrington NO2 (nitrogen dioxide) AQI is 26 - Warrington SO2 (sulfur dioxide) AQI is 2 - Warrington O3 (ozone) AQI is 2 -

http://aqicn.org/city/united-kingdom/warrington/

Damn.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:44 pm

Manchester Piccadilly Air Pollution: Real-time Air Quality Index (AQI)
MANCHESTER PICCADILLY

Preston, United Kingdom AQI: : Preston Real-time Air Quality Index (AQI)
138
Unhealthy
for Sensitive Groups
Updated on Thursday 10:00

http://aqicn.org/city/united-kingdom/ma ... iccadilly/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hate this!
CitizenPMJR has inhalers for his asthma.
~~Damn Tory smog.~~

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:46 pm

adam wrote:A story I linked to in the Guardian in last night's thread is now the top story on the Telegraph's home page

How George Osborne's Budget Jokes Cost Britain £81million

Edited to add... in an 'isn't this interesting' way, not as in 'all hail the power of FTN'.

Reading Osborne's speech I was surprised at the number of digs, jokes, etc at Labour's expense. I thought Budget Statements were supposed to be taken seriously, laying out the government's economic plans.
Have Osborne's previous Statements, and those of former Chancellors contained so many blatant digs at the opposition?
It is unstatesmanlike and unbecoming - I can't imagine the Finance Minister in any other country making such a speech. May 7th can't come soon enough.

Good afternoon everyone.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:57 pm

http://aqicn.org/map/europe/#@g/50.8738/6.2259/4z" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:58 pm

Tin foil theory of the day.

Mmmm....anyone who's read the full background to the Murdoch press antics, knows about phone hacking, putting people under surveillance, computer hacking and the whole sordid political angle of targeting mainly Labour people. Also evidence was given that there were/are safes containing incriminating info about people.

Then you have Andy Coulson, and Osborne's goose being saved when the NOTW went easy on him for the cocaine/Natalie Rowe S&M allegations.

What if somewhere there's a pic or two of our esteemed chancellor dressed not unlike the Photoshops Murdoch's rats presented today ? [The Scottish edition was even more repulsive].

A little reminder to a cocky Chancellor where his priorities should lie if the Tories win in May ?

Tin foil hat put back in the cupboard....

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:58 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
WelshIan wrote:
adam wrote:A story I linked to in the Guardian in last night's thread is now the top story on the Telegraph's home page

How George Osborne's Budget Jokes Cost Britain £81million

Edited to add... in an 'isn't this interesting' way, not as in 'all hail the power of FTN'.
Reading Osborne's speech I was surprised at the number of digs, jokes, etc at Labour's expense. I thought Budget Statements were supposed to be taken seriously, laying out the government's economic plans.
Have Osborne's previous Statements, and those of former Chancellors contained so many blatant digs at the opposition?
It is unstatesmanlike and unbecoming - I can't imagine the Finance Minister in any other country making such a speech. May 7th can't come soon enough.

Good afternoon everyone.
Good afternoon. I can't remember another budget that was so opposition-bashing - I don't think even Osborne's 'let's all panic and shatter confidence' budget in 2010 was as overtly partisan

(my bold)
That was before current government settled into their abusive relationship pattern.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:01 pm

Others have questioned the independence of the OBR here and elsewhere over the last couple of days.

For Fraser Nelson (who although a right winger is capable of independent thought) to tweet: I wonder how independent is the OBR? Osbourne created it,defined its remit,appointed its chairman,banned it from assessing Labour ideas.

Is it now being seen as a purely political instrument to validate a purely political chancellor?

My view? It always was and over the initial years of this coalition was a useful smokescreen but some less tribal (is it OK to use that term?) commentators are now beginning to seriously question its findings.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:02 pm

Good afternoon, WelshIan & RobertSnozers.
Thank you for your posts.
I'm trying to lay off the thank you button due to technical difficulties at my end.
Please know I read your posts & thank you.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:04 pm

citizenJA wrote:I was stupid young at 27 years old.

Were you?
I was a midwife.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:04 pm

I've just pinched this verbaitum from Andrew Sparrow's blog, as it's by Tim Montgomerie in the Times so can't be linked to, but I thought it was really interesting:

"At a recent Downing Street meeting there was a lively discussion about fine-tuning the Tories’ message on the economy. One participant urged more help for the low-paid. Another worried that further action was needed to quell anger about the banks. One wanted a big emphasis on housebuilding. One suggested that the idea of devolving power to local authorities in the north should be put centre stage in the budget to prove the Conservative commitment to rebalance the economy.

Everyone around the table wanted a slightly different tweaking of the Conservative pitch. Lynton Crosby, the party’s election strategist, then lifted his head: “All very fascinating . . .” (my source says he uttered these words in a tone that suggested he might not have been entirely captivated) “ . . . but voters only need to know two things about the economy: it was broken five years ago by the other lot and it’s OK again now under us.

There was a lot of dutiful nodding around the table from some of the Tories’ biggest brains. One said: “Yes, Lynton, quite right.” Everyone knew that the situation was much more complicated than that, but that it was also as simple as that in terms of raw electoral politics. The thought-provoking discussion was over. The Crosbyisation of the Conservative party — and the belief that all that matters is a few simple messages, repeated endlessly — advanced one more step. And I mean “advanced” in the same way that Crosby meant “fascinating”.

If that's true, and that really is Lynton Crosby's strategy, then I think the Tories are doomed. If they're not going to offer any kind of specific economic policy that might engage the public at large, then why would anyone vote for them? I could see the sense it a "we've fixed the economy, that's all you have to worry about" message if people really were feeling the benefit of extra money in their pockets, but they clearly aren't, so it seems madness to just focus on such a narrow message. And are they not going to talk about any other policies beyond the economy? Nothing on health, or schools, or transport or policing, you know the things that actually make a difference to peoples day in day out lives? Seems crazy to me.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:07 pm

Some thoughts on the use of scripts, in sales and in politics.

Many years ago, when I lived in Peterborough (south of Hope) I worked for a number of years in financial services. The company I worked for was unusual in that it was a fee based planning service, which involved an extensive fact finding exercise (very unusual at the time, as most companies basically counted how many legs you had and flogged you a policy); to ensure we covered everything we needed to, both the legalities of what we were doing and the overall concept, we had to learn a (roughly) 45 minute presentation before we were let loose in the wild. The studying was done through a mixture of rote learning, role play and sheer memory; as I had been involved in amateur dramatics for a number of years I found it pretty easy, but many struggled.

I've already discussed the upside, providing you followed the script you ensured you covered all the regulatory aspects, and you got across what you were trying to do; the downside (and one reason why I have argued against role play as a training tool ever since) is that the punter sat across the other side of the table from you never learned the script, so you don't get the nice neat responses and easy flow you were trained to expect. So a script has value in ensuring people get a message across uniformly, but only works if you have the nous to be able to go 'off piste' when required; you do what works best for you, Ephe has her method, others may need a more structured approach.

She's taking some stick BTL.

I expect the nice fee the Guardian has paid her for writing what is undoubtedly a load of self indulgent bollocks will be sufficient consolation for her.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:07 pm

Thanks for that Tish.

The Sun front page, apart from its repulsive photoshop of Osborne is straight from the Crosby hymn sheet.

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:10 pm

Lonewolfie wrote: ...I do tend to get involved in a lot of conversations about politics however, and surprise a lot of people with my declaration of being an adherent of Marxism (the response of 'that doesn't apply to now' could be almost 'scripted', it is so prevalent) ...

No wonder people don't think it applies now when the only commentary on communism and Marxism is of the historic, defeated USSR. No alternative view to the current neo-liberal consensus is aired in the MSM, so how can ordinary people become informed about alternatives? You need to be interested and dedicated to actually find out more. Most people are not interested enough to find out.

I defy anyone to read The Communist Manifesto and say that it is not relevant today.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:18 pm

Rebecca wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I was stupid young at 27 years old.
Were you?
I was a midwife.

I was working in local government during my last year in University studying labour market trends for a political science, sociology & statistics degree.

Emotionally immature, me, not wise. Smart, not wise. I'm only a little improved - if that.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:20 pm

Only 6 more budgets to go, then. Unless the DUP get to do theirs.

Allowing the LibDems to present their own version (at the taxpayers' expense) was wrong.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:23 pm

It's also presented us with one of the naffest ever political images, that of Danny Alexander holding his little orange dispatch box.

He'll rue the day he did it. No Lib Dem leader job for him.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:25 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Has anyone seen Jack Monroe's piece on the G today?

She is 27 - and talks about "campaigning" as though she'd been doing it for years on end.

I had some time for her until recently. No more.

She's taking some stick BTL.
It's a shame, but my guess is that she'll be back in time. Labour supporters attacking her is not going to help anyone. She's made her choice, and 27 is still young enough to be a bit naive - I was older than that when I voted LibDem, after all. I only hope she doesn't find out it was a mistake as a result of five more years of Tory government.

I've probably just persuaded another local Green party to put up a candidate against Labour. Oh well.
I don't see the point of attacking her, I have just filed her as a muppet and set the ignore flag.

It's an article that's more designed to embarrass Labour than anything else - The Graun's usual modus operandi. I suspect the Graun will back the Greens at the next election. One thing does puzzle me above all: why is Labour criticised as being middle class. when all the Greens I've ever met are hardly horny handed sons of the soil? A more solidly middle class (and largely cosmopolitan based) party would be difficult to imagine.

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:25 pm

I like the Guardian's display of the polls and poll projections, it's very clean and clear.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng- ... projection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:26 pm

Rebecca wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I was stupid young at 27 years old.
Were you?
I was a midwife.

My current work includes caring for elderly people with dementia. It's a calling for me, I'm good at it without having to try. I'm unable to work under the conditions currently considered acceptable for care workers. An elderly friend or myself would get badly hurt.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:27 pm

IFS saying that Labour could meet its targets without implementing any cuts.
Oh,and guess what,the poor have suffered disproportionately during this govt.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:29 pm

WelshIan wrote:I like the Guardian's display of the polls and poll projections, it's very clean and clear.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng- ... projection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What do you think about Electoral Calculus? Link below.

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:33 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
It's an article that's more designed to embarrass Labour than anything else - The Graun's usual modus operandi. I suspect the Graun will back the Greens at the next election. One thing does puzzle me above all: why is Labour criticised as being middle class. when all the Greens I've ever met are hardly horny handed sons of the soil? A more solidly middle class (and largely cosmopolitan based) party would be difficult to imagine.

Yes, I think they'll back the Greens too. Look at the amount of space they've given to the 'Keep it in the Ground' campaign. If that isn't putting the groundwork in for coming out in support of the Greens, I don't know what is!

That would leave just The Mirror (presumably) as the only paper to support Labour?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:35 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Rebecca wrote:IFS saying that Labour could meet its targets without implementing any cuts.
Oh,and guess what,the poor have suffered disproportionately during this govt.
The IFS seem to be getting frustrated with Osborne's refusal to say how £10 billion of his £12 billion social security cuts are going to be made, despite that target having been around for a couple of years.

It's particularly galling that Osborne persistently places 'welfare spending' outside austerity. When he's questioned about all the cuts he's going to have to make, his reply is always along the lines of 'yes but we're going to clamp down on tax avoidance and welfare so not all the cuts will have to come from departmental spending'. So is the DWP not a department any more?

Yes - the "non-department" status of the DWP has puzzled me, too. Perhaps it's been reclassified as a play-thing for Iain Smith.

Edited -
"it's" for "is"

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:43 pm

gilsey wrote:
adam wrote:Interesting poll findings on Osborne from Survation for the Mirror

Mr gilsey, who takes virtually no interest in current affairs, hates Osborne.

Sensible man

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 1:52 pm

citizenJA wrote:I was stupid young at 27 years old.

At 27 I'd been married for nearly ten years and had two children