Wednesday 25th March 2015

Post by **refitman** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 7:16 am

Morning all.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 7:32 am

Morning Dan - bacon's on, smoked variety today for a change.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 8:03 am

ErnstRemarx wrote:...bacon's on, smoked variety today for a change.

Oak or applewood?

Good morning.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 8:05 am

It's the final PMQs today. Wonder if Dave will answer any questions?

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 8:23 am

Maftinmorntingeve all...

...hmmm....smell bacon....we got any Reggae Reggae to go with it?...or brown?...or HP? (and please don't try and tell me that any self respecting member would for that sickly sweet red gloop known as 'tomato catsick'

)

Speaking of 'smoked' foodstuffs, OGRFGs antics/epic fail yesterday make me think there's a joke in there somewhere...along the lines of...

'What's a pensioners' favourite bbq food?'

'Smoked chicken'

(Don't worry, I left my coat at the door so that I can easily pick it up irrespective of the speed at which I am ejected

)

It's all going so absolutely fantastically well for the Tory election machine....if you told anyone pre-2010 that a Tory Prime Minister would be heckled and jeered at an AgeUK conference, by pensioners (core vote/our 'important people'/the people who will always vote for us), they would've laughed/shouted you out of town as it would be so very implausible. Also, the Crace piece in the Graun said OGRFG might not face another crowd as hostile as that in the election run-up...really? They're going to keep him away from everyone then?

Combine it with 'it's the Empty Chicken...oh, no - wait - it's GruntMichaelCorinnneSebastian ShappsGreenStockheathFox...oh, hang on - no, now it's who? Oh, right, Sam Gyimah, Toady Useless and some others, here to convince you that the current government is absolutely fantastic and must have your vote to be returned to office (as we believe we're 'quite good at it'), you young people, because we say so and we're right.........so there.'

...and Mrs Vines meltdown....'Eds got 2 kitchens because he's got oodles and oodles of money and we're poor downtrodden Murkydochians with just Uncle Ruperts billions and his grace and favour to keep us afloat'...which can only serve to highlight Gove the Disgraceful and his (still unexplained) activities...

...oh yes....Landslide here we come

(I live in hope, north of Peterborough and where things seem brighter every day)

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 8:27 am

Mornin' all. Couple of polls from Comres and Yougov overnight. Both of them have Lab and Con on 35%. Think the Con %age is a bit high mesen like.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 8:35 am

Morning.

Alex Salmond. Urrrggghhh.
Norman Smith says his latest utterances are bad news for Labour because they can't use 'vote Labour to keep the Tories out' as Mr Bloated Ego says the SNP will block a minority Tory government.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 8:51 am

UKIP deputy leader, Paul Nuttall, is at the centre of a row after a public meeting last night in Porthmadog.
The meeting, at the Sportsman Hotel, saw Mr Nuttall heckled as proceedings were conducted entirely in English, with no chance for attendees to ask questions in Welsh.

http://dailywales.net/2015/03/24/ukip-d ... n-english/

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 8:56 am

Labour announces new plan to cut food bank use

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1145668 ... d-bank-use

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:01 am

I see the Tories are still claiming that whoever the Scots choose to vote for does not form part of the "will of the British People"
(BBC radio news)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:07 am

Morning all.

I see the Tories are really trying to win friends and influence people...

At 8am Lynton Crosby, the Tory party’s chief election strategist, is giving a talk at ad week conference at Ronnie Scott’s jazz club, on “politics, power and the modern media”. Sadly, most of the modern media – bar the Telegraph, which is co-hosting the event – is barred, after news of the event was spotted, but I have a feeling a few whispers will find their way through.

But wait...

David Singleton @singersz
Follow
Looks like Lynton Crosby won't be making a rare appearance in public after all. Plug pulled at the eleventh hour...

I get the impression that they don't care any longer - have they simply given up?

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:18 am

Speculation will no doubt continue as to who will replace the colossus who currently leads the Tory party, I agree that the names mentioned will probably in time fade away. But the up and comers suggested here are a dream for Labour.

Priti Patel, Philip Lee, Stephen Crabb (much hilarity for ohso and RR no doubt) Nicky Morgan, Esther McVey, Liz Truss, it's so bad I am surprised Julie Bailey's cheerleader wasn't mentioned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general ... xpect.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:22 am

Ooh my thanking seems to be working smoothly again today. But i'm not going back, so thanks everybody

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:25 am

Good Morning all.
Apparently ATOS have deemed Richard III fit for work

http://beezlystreet.com/2015/03/22/atos ... -for-work/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:29 am

danesclose wrote:Good Morning all.
Apparently ATOS have deemed Richard III fit for work

http://beezlystreet.com/2015/03/22/atos ... -for-work/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's those Plantagenet skivers wot are ruining the country.

[Or ruining the 'historical thing what is England' as I heard a Midlands Kipper call it on Radio 4 the other day].

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:39 am

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Speculation will no doubt continue as to who will replace the colossus who currently leads the Tory party, I agree that the names mentioned will probably in time fade away. But the up and comers suggested here are a dream for Labour.

Priti Patel, Philip Lee, Stephen Crabb (much hilarity for ohso and RR no doubt) Nicky Morgan, Esther McVey, Liz Truss, it's so bad I am surprised Julie Bailey's cheerleader wasn't mentioned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general ... xpect.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Philip Lee has about as much personality as a dead fish....

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:43 am

Tories blaming Labour for Lynton no show.

Matthew Lawrence ‏@xMATTxLAWx 15m15 minutes ago
#LyntonCrosby's 'secret breakfast' cancelled at eleventh hour after Labour hijack rumour http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/44839 ... mour.thtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … Aww diddums. #GE2015

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:46 am

yahyah wrote:Tories blaming Labour for Lynton no show.

Matthew Lawrence ‏@xMATTxLAWx 15m15 minutes ago
#LyntonCrosby's 'secret breakfast' cancelled at eleventh hour after Labour hijack rumour http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/44839 ... mour.thtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … Aww diddums. #GE2015

They also hijacked the AgeUk meeting yesterday.

Should keep tabs on how many Tory shindigs get cancelled because of Labour rabble rousers.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:49 am

I've not watched any of the Free Speech programmes but having seen several accounts shall be seeking them out. I am however most looking forward to one with Cameron and am particularly interested in his relationship with Larry the cat.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:49 am

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
They also hijacked the AgeUk meeting yesterday.

Or Age Concern as Toby Young would have us believe...

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:54 am

ohsocynical wrote:...Philip Lee has about as much personality as a dead fish....

Am I right in thinking that he's a doctor and your MP, ohsocynical? If so I remember his writing in the G about giving patients itemised lists of the cost of their treatments. I advised he sought a career in Harley Street after his political one. Surprisingly he didn't have it moderated. Perhaps he didn't read btl.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:55 am

WRT OGRFGs' presentational style (as discussed yesterday)...

I've always seen the Empty Chicken as a bit of a 'low-rent' Tory Bliar - in that there was some sort of direct input into Bliars 'stage presence' (when his elbows mysteriously started to hang slightly further away from his body and the backs of the hands faced forwards/thumb upwards on top of clenched hand to make a particular point...a la the worst POTUS evaaah, Dubya...apparently (I heard from somewhere) this is because it give the impression of 'broad shoulders', 'gravitas' and 'masculinity' (In an asexual way, if that's possible). Yesterdays' performance reminded me very much of a 'warm-up' act at a regional small business invitation evening, trying to enliven the crowd in preparation for the big important person to come on stage and deliver his really serious message...but failing with all the jokes, unable to create a positive ambience and so reverting to attempted gentle bonhomie with said crowd to keep them on (his) side....the word 'unstatesmanlike' doesn't really do him justice. Is that really the best thing the Tories have got going for them?...I think we may see his impression of a clouncy funt before May the 7th....it would be very good if it were at one of the debates (assuming he turns up).

Post by **adam** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 9:58 am

utopiandreams wrote:I've not watched any of the Free Speech programmes but having seen several accounts shall be seeking them out. I am however most looking forward to one with Cameron and am particularly interested in his relationship with Larry the cat.

Get the drinks and snacks in, you're going to be waiting a long time.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:02 am

'Lynton Crosby's 'secret breakfast' cancelled at eleventh hour after Labour hijack rumour'

http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/44839 ... mour.thtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:02 am

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
yahyah wrote:Tories blaming Labour for Lynton no show.

Matthew Lawrence ‏@xMATTxLAWx 15m15 minutes ago
#LyntonCrosby's 'secret breakfast' cancelled at eleventh hour after Labour hijack rumour http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/44839 ... mour.thtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … Aww diddums. #GE2015

They also hijacked the AgeUk meeting yesterday.

Should keep tabs on how many Tory shindigs get cancelled because of Labour rabble rousers.

Tsk tsk....that pesky Labour....not letting Crosby have 'secret' breakfasts and briefings...how good is their security if a 'secret meeting' is hijacked by the direct enemy/opposition that they are keeping it secret from? (...and how secret was it anyway, if they had a number of attendees being emailed updates?) It's a bl***y good job we haven't let them anywhere near anything important like running the country or anything....oh....wait

...and I'm fairly sure, 'Labour rabble rousers' will cover everyone and anyone who's not a Westmonster Tory/Lost Deposit.

TTFN - HTBBL

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:04 am

Sorry, double posted the total politics blog link.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:18 am

Tom Symonds ‏@tomsymonds 17 mins17 minutes ago

PA: Former Tory MP Harvey Proctor has taken immediate retirement as private secretary to the Duke of Rutland. House searched last month

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:24 am

Lonewolfie wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
yahyah wrote:Tories blaming Labour for Lynton no show.

Matthew Lawrence ‏@xMATTxLAWx 15m15 minutes ago
#LyntonCrosby's 'secret breakfast' cancelled at eleventh hour after Labour hijack rumour http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/44839 ... mour.thtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … Aww diddums. #GE2015

They also hijacked the AgeUk meeting yesterday.

Should keep tabs on how many Tory shindigs get cancelled because of Labour rabble rousers.
Tsk tsk....that pesky Labour....not letting Crosby have 'secret' breakfasts and briefings...how good is their security if a 'secret meeting' is hijacked by the direct enemy/opposition that they are keeping it secret from? (...and how secret was it anyway, if they had a number of attendees being emailed updates?) It's a bl***y good job we haven't let them anywhere near anything important like running the country or anything....oh....wait

...and I'm fairly sure, 'Labour rabble rousers' will cover everyone and anyone who's not a Westmonster Tory/Lost Deposit.

TTFN - HTBBL

I think in their arrogance they have badly misjudged how far they'd bullied us into submission.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:25 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Ooh my thanking seems to be working smoothly again today. But i'm not going back, so thanks everybody

Good morning, everyone.
My browser is better but the thanking mechanism still takes a long time to reload the page.
I continue to thank you all for your posts.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:27 am

More on Frances Crook (Howard league for Penal Reform)

Having received an extremely rude missive from the MOJ regarding the invitation G4S sent her to visit HMP Oakwood and others, with MOJ banning their outsourced prison provider from allowing her to accept their invitation, she has now been informed that prison governors across the UK have been asked by MOJ whether she or her representatives have ever visited their prisons.

Julian Huppert (a LibDem who should be in Labour) has tabled an EDM to support her in making her visit to Oakwood. Excellent!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:30 am

' The companies analysed by Richard Murphy’s research are: Care UK, Circle, General Healthcare Group, HCA, Bio Products Laboratory Holdings, Ramsay Healthcare, Spire Healthcare, The Practice, Optum (United Health) and Virgin Care.

He found that only two of the ten companies pay any significant tax in the UK and all of them have links to offshore tax havens, including the Channel Islands, British Virgin Islands and Luxembourg.

According to the research, Virgin Care paid no tax on its latest recorded profits and uses 13 holding companies to distance its healthcare division from its parent company.'

http://www.welfareweekly.com/tax-avoide ... contracts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bidding for public contracts?

You should be open to foi requests.
You should have no tax haven structure in the subsidiary bidding.
You should be paying the living wage.
You should have a specified number of quality apprenticeships.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:31 am

Lonewolfie wrote:WRT OGRFGs' presentational style (as discussed yesterday)...

I've always seen the Empty Chicken as a bit of a 'low-rent' Tory Bliar - in that there was some sort of direct input into Bliars 'stage presence' (when his elbows mysteriously started to hang slightly further away from his body and the backs of the hands faced forwards/thumb upwards on top of clenched hand to make a particular point...a la the worst POTUS evaaah, Dubya...apparently (I heard from somewhere) this is because it give the impression of 'broad shoulders', 'gravitas' and 'masculinity' (In an asexual way, if that's possible). Yesterdays' performance reminded me very much of a 'warm-up' act at a regional small business invitation evening, trying to enliven the crowd in preparation for the big important person to come on stage and deliver his really serious message...but failing with all the jokes, unable to create a positive ambience and so reverting to attempted gentle bonhomie with said crowd to keep them on (his) side....the word 'unstatesmanlike' doesn't really do him justice. Is that really the best thing the Tories have got going for them?...I think we may see his impression of a clouncy funt before May the 7th....it would be very good if it were at one of the debates (assuming he turns up).

I'm 70 and believe me he was talking down to those pensioners. Some people - not all I hasten to add, but a lot, tend to speak to us as if we're children once we show our age.

I'll allow some of us might have slowed down in the brain box department along with our bodies, but some of us haven't and there's nothing worse than being spoken to in that way. Even doctors do it. They get the sharp end of my tongue when they do.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:32 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
They also hijacked the AgeUk meeting yesterday.

Or Age Concern as Toby Young would have us believe...

A good journalist wouldn't have fouled up the organisation's name under the circumstances. Toby Young, you're a groupie.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:37 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Ooh my thanking seems to be working smoothly again today. But i'm not going back, so thanks everybody

The more I thank, the less time it takes to return to the topic page.

Edited to add - I wrote too soon. It works fine until it doesn't.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:39 am

Blimey, I've only just noticed. When did I get promoted to a committee member? I'd better start paying a lot more attention.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:42 am

utopiandreams wrote:Blimey, I've only just noticed. When did I get promoted to a committee member? I'd better start paying a lot more attention.

When did I become Prime Minister?
Only if I can play the role as Clement Attlee

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:45 am

Stoke-on-Trent Centre, United Kingdom AQI: : Stoke-on-Trent Centre Real-time Air Quality Index (AQI)
118
Unhealthy
for Sensitive Groups
Updated on Wed. 9:00

http://aqicn.org/map/united-kingdom/sto ... nt-centre/

Stoke has the worst air quality in the nation at the moment, according to the website posted above.
I guess the coal bed methane works are in full operation this morning.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:06 am

For your pleasure:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:10 am

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
yahyah wrote:Tories blaming Labour for Lynton no show.

Matthew Lawrence ‏@xMATTxLAWx 15m15 minutes ago
#LyntonCrosby's 'secret breakfast' cancelled at eleventh hour after Labour hijack rumour http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/44839 ... mour.thtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … Aww diddums. #GE2015

They also hijacked the AgeUk meeting yesterday.

Should keep tabs on how many Tory shindigs get cancelled because of Labour rabble rousers.

Toady was whining on twitter about the Free Speech audience being too leftie as well....

I did challenge him to produce the evidence that "this government has banned the exclusivity clause in ZHCs" as he declared last night.

Radio silence.

Wonder why that might be.......shucks, I might be left assuming he was lying - again....

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:18 am

yahyah wrote:'Lynton Crosby's 'secret breakfast' cancelled at eleventh hour after Labour hijack rumour'

http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/44839 ... mour.thtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@SamCoatesTimes
I see some political activists are trying to organise a demo outside Ronnie Scott's tomorrow...

So, some Labour activists were going to show up outside & that was the excuse for cancelling it ??

I'm fairly sure there were Labour activists outside the Grosvenor Hotel (?) on the fundraising gig they had - didn't see them cancel that night !

Crosby the Coward & Cameron the Chicken - how well suited they are.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:27 am

Good morfternoon.

I watched the first half of the Free Talk programme yesterday and caught the closing minutes of the second. Dreadful - Toby Young and "That Woman" in particular. I thought, at one stage, that I'd accidentally tuned into a budget version of the film "Fatal Attraction". I felt a tiny bit sorry for Sam Gyimah, and Ian Birrell could have been standing in for the latter-day Nick Clegg.

And was it my imagination, or did "The Woman" quickly and rudely turn away from the female presenter during the hand-shake bit at the end of the programme? Her ("The Woman") engagement with the presenter was perfunctory, to say the least. Very keen to swivel-chair her attention to Toby Young. (Although I suspect he felt he could have done without it.)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:32 am

pk1 wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
yahyah wrote:Tories blaming Labour for Lynton no show.

Matthew Lawrence ‏@xMATTxLAWx 15m15 minutes ago
#LyntonCrosby's 'secret breakfast' cancelled at eleventh hour after Labour hijack rumour http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/44839 ... mour.thtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … Aww diddums. #GE2015

They also hijacked the AgeUk meeting yesterday.

Should keep tabs on how many Tory shindigs get cancelled because of Labour rabble rousers.
Toady was whining on twitter about the Free Speech audience being too leftie as well....

I did challenge him to produce the evidence that "this government has banned the exclusivity clause in ZHCs" as he declared last night.

Radio silence.

Wonder why that might be.......shucks, I might be left assuming he was lying - again....

Yes, I was fuming about the Zero Hours Contract thing, too. I was surprised that he wasn't challenged over it since a lot of the audience seemed very well informed.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:40 am

ohsocynical wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:WRT OGRFGs' presentational style (as discussed yesterday)...

I've always seen the Empty Chicken as a bit of a 'low-rent' Tory Bliar - in that there was some sort of direct input into Bliars 'stage presence' (when his elbows mysteriously started to hang slightly further away from his body and the backs of the hands faced forwards/thumb upwards on top of clenched hand to make a particular point...a la the worst POTUS evaaah, Dubya...apparently (I heard from somewhere) this is because it give the impression of 'broad shoulders', 'gravitas' and 'masculinity' (In an asexual way, if that's possible). Yesterdays' performance reminded me very much of a 'warm-up' act at a regional small business invitation evening, trying to enliven the crowd in preparation for the big important person to come on stage and deliver his really serious message...but failing with all the jokes, unable to create a positive ambience and so reverting to attempted gentle bonhomie with said crowd to keep them on (his) side....the word 'unstatesmanlike' doesn't really do him justice. Is that really the best thing the Tories have got going for them?...I think we may see his impression of a clouncy funt before May the 7th....it would be very good if it were at one of the debates (assuming he turns up).
I'm 70 and believe me he was talking down to those pensioners. Some people - not all I hasten to add, but a lot, tend to speak to us as if we're children once we show our age.

I'll allow some of us might have slowed down in the brain box department along with our bodies, but some of us haven't and there's nothing worse than being spoken to in that way. Even doctors do it. They get the sharp end of my tongue when they do.

Sorry OhSo - wasn't trying to give the impression that he wasn't being a condescending

- just that his alleged 'skill' in front of 'people' is, like everything else about him, pretty much non-existent.

I'm lucky (again), in that my life has been populated by feisty older people (one lasted until a month before her 100th birthday....but she always was a party pooper)...so, I believe(TM) the eastern cultures are right and the older someone is, the more respect they get (or should get).

I do think there's a whiff off 'meltdown' around though - shouldn't Dave and his Cabinet be out there, with the Chairman of the Conservative Party and the Chief Whip, leading the charge, all over the media, defending their record and showing how competent and in touch they are? Shouldn't that be easy, given the supine nature of the media? ...or are they starting to see enemies everywhere...even at DT sponsored 'inside-the-bubble' events? Have they run out of squirrels?

I'm getting the distinct impression that the Empty Chicken has been given an easy ride, in some part, because they (the MSM) didn't want to 'hurt his feelings'....poor dab...well - maybe it's time for him to face the music, the f*****g useless f****** f******.
(Apologies for expletive overload)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:43 am

Andrew Neil is giving Priti Patel a bit of a hard time....Now to see if they mention the pensioners revolt.

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:45 am

Good Morning
A new, very large sample, yougov poll just out for the Times.
Sample size 8271 with very little weighting
CON 34% LAB 33% LD 8% UKIP 14% GREEN 5% SNP/PC 5%
Unweighted just about even CON & LAB slight (CON lead less than 1/2%)
However in the age groups LAB lead convincingly in all but the 60+ agegroup (where Con lead is 14%%) so perhaps Cameron's performance at AGEUK was not just ill judged but stupid.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:48 am

ohsocynical wrote:Andrew Neil is giving Priti Patel a bit of a hard time....Now to see if they mention the pensioners revolt.

Did you watch yesterdays with Coburn challenging Chris Leslie, saying Alastair Darling had every intention to increase VAT if Labour had won in 2010 ?

She was most insistent, so much so that I went & found the budget 2010 red book & oh look, what does it say.....

ahead of the standard rate of VAT reverting to 17.5 per cent

p192, http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... mplete.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so hardly increasing VAT - merely reverting to the rate it had been before he cut it temporarily !

The lies that get spouted on politics shows seriously piss me off.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:54 am

pk1 wrote: Did you watch yesterdays with Coburn challenging Chris Leslie, saying Alastair Darling had every intention to increase VAT if Labour had won in 2010 ?

She was most insistent, so much so that I went & found the budget 2010 red book & oh look, what does it say.....
ahead of the standard rate of VAT reverting to 17.5 per cent

Darling's book quite clearly has him in favour of increasing VAT ahead of the 2010 election in the middle of the financial crisis to raise more tax revenue. Balls is said to have been dead set against the idea as was, crucially, Gordon Brown which is why it didn't happen.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:57 am

ohsocynical wrote:
Lonewolfie wrote:WRT OGRFGs' presentational style (as discussed yesterday)...

I've always seen the Empty Chicken as a bit of a 'low-rent' Tory Bliar - in that there was some sort of direct input into Bliars 'stage presence' (when his elbows mysteriously started to hang slightly further away from his body and the backs of the hands faced forwards/thumb upwards on top of clenched hand to make a particular point...a la the worst POTUS evaaah, Dubya...apparently (I heard from somewhere) this is because it give the impression of 'broad shoulders', 'gravitas' and 'masculinity' (In an asexual way, if that's possible). Yesterdays' performance reminded me very much of a 'warm-up' act at a regional small business invitation evening, trying to enliven the crowd in preparation for the big important person to come on stage and deliver his really serious message...but failing with all the jokes, unable to create a positive ambience and so reverting to attempted gentle bonhomie with said crowd to keep them on (his) side....the word 'unstatesmanlike' doesn't really do him justice. Is that really the best thing the Tories have got going for them?...I think we may see his impression of a clouncy funt before May the 7th....it would be very good if it were at one of the debates (assuming he turns up).
I'm 70 and believe me he was talking down to those pensioners. Some people - not all I hasten to add, but a lot, tend to speak to us as if we're children once we show our age.

I'll allow some of us might have slowed down in the brain box department along with our bodies, but some of us haven't and there's nothing worse than being spoken to in that way. Even doctors do it. They get the sharp end of my tongue when they do.

It's odd, isn't it?

I suspect Cameron has this idea that all women over 60 are sweet biddable little ladies, who look like Miss Marple - forgetting that she had a mind like a razor and a tongue like a whip.....and is fictional!
He probably thinks of older men as retired golf-club faux-military types, full of Scotch and reactionary opinion - he probably thinks they only speak in harrumphs signifying agreement with his views.

Show's 66. He's a pensioner. He is rampantly left-wing, got spied on by government when he was an activist with CND and the NCCL, still does his festivals etc. and earned his living for twenty years managing outdoor rock and roll events.
Cameron wouldn't recognise a man like that. Many people think that pensioners are old and past it when the truth is that most of them have another two decades of useful and active life to go. They're hardly falling to bits.

Many of the people who volunteer for charity are retired people - they see the results of policies. Many people over 60 have children struggling and grandchildren with a very uncertain future. Many of the activists and campaigners for cancer and Alzheimers' charities are pensioners; AgeUK, AgeConcern and other groups rely on the older people in their ranks to raise funds and formulate policy.

Cameron has clearly never met people like this. He is so insulated from real life, and he thinks the electorate (of any age) is so thick that they will believe his lies in the face of all the evidence they live with on a daily basis.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you let rip at your GP, OhSo.

Can I come with you next time?

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 12:04 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
pk1 wrote: Did you watch yesterdays with Coburn challenging Chris Leslie, saying Alastair Darling had every intention to increase VAT if Labour had won in 2010 ?

She was most insistent, so much so that I went & found the budget 2010 red book & oh look, what does it say.....
ahead of the standard rate of VAT reverting to 17.5 per cent

Darling's book quite clearly has him in favour of increasing VAT ahead of the 2010 election in the middle of the financial crisis to raise more tax revenue. Balls is said to have been dead set against the idea as was, crucially, Gordon Brown which is why it didn't happen.

So it was something he put in his own book but was not presented in any budget red book ?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 25 Mar, 2015 12:08 pm

rearofthestore wrote:Good Morning
A new, very large sample, yougov poll just out for the Times.
Sample size 8271 with very little weighting
CON 34% LAB 33% LD 8% UKIP 14% GREEN 5% SNP/PC 5%
Unweighted just about even CON & LAB slight (CON lead less than 1/2%)
However in the age groups LAB lead convincingly in all but the 60+ agegroup (where Con lead is 14%%) so perhaps Cameron's performance at AGEUK was not just ill judged but stupid.

Link? Where does it say unweighted? That is bad news if those are the raw numbers.