Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th September 2014

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 11:46 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:To the poster who complained of polling overload, there are at least half a dozen more IndyRef surveys between now and polling day

Think that must be me, oh well, think it's a given I will be boggle eyed most of the week, with polls and stuff, Friday will be a re-run of The Walking Dead, three hours sleep max, if I am lucky..

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 11:47 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:I suppose there might be an exodus of customers from Scottish Power and its energy company subsidiaries ... they are one of the most obvious.

Scottish Power has been Spanish owned for some time! (part of the Iberdrola Group).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 11:53 am

Salmond comment on Marr this morning - "there aren't really any 'no' voters, just deferred 'yes' ones".

What???

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 11:59 am

ErnstRemarx wrote:Should rUK consumers decide to source their products from non-Scottish areas, that would make a considerable dent in the Scottish economy, as 70% of Scottish exports/business is sent or performed south of the border. It is a sign of the bitterness stirred up by the campaign that people should be contemplating boycotting Scottish goods and products.

No need for boycotts - the nats have it in hand:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/wha ... say#dwg1c9

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 12:16 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:Should rUK consumers decide to source their products from non-Scottish areas, that would make a considerable dent in the Scottish economy, as 70% of Scottish exports/business is sent or performed south of the border. It is a sign of the bitterness stirred up by the campaign that people should be contemplating boycotting Scottish goods and products.
No need for boycotts - the nats have it in hand:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/wha ... say#dwg1c9

Thanks - that was very entertaining!

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

yahyah wrote:There are thing like video games and manufacturing items that are exported to us.

Would appreciate it if anyone comes across a good list of Scottish products, think it's a lot more than kippers, raspberries and shortbread.

Don't underestimate the value of kippers, raspberries and shortbread

:

...exports to the rest of the UK accounted for more than a third of output of meat, fish and fruit processing, and bakery and dairy production

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... mework.pdf

(page 18 lists Scottish exports to rUK; page 28 contains the above quote).

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 12:49 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:Should rUK consumers decide to source their products from non-Scottish areas, that would make a considerable dent in the Scottish economy, as 70% of Scottish exports/business is sent or performed south of the border. It is a sign of the bitterness stirred up by the campaign that people should be contemplating boycotting Scottish goods and products.
No need for boycotts - the nats have it in hand:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/wha ... say#dwg1c9
Thanks - that was very entertaining!

Quite agree. I do hope the list of companies becomes so large that it's back of a fag packet stuff to list the ones where the nats can actually shop.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 12:55 pm

The Reunion - Radio 4 this morning.

When Tony Blair delivered the phrase: 'New Labour, New Britain!' to the 1994 party conference, his first as leader, it was the result of a decade of change within the party. Kinnock had rebranded it, introducing the rose as party emblem and had distanced the Labour Party from its far-left factions.

Worth a listen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04gnjhk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 1:00 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:The Reunion - Radio 4 this morning.

When Tony Blair delivered the phrase: 'New Labour, New Britain!' to the 1994 party conference, his first as leader, it was the result of a decade of change within the party. Kinnock had rebranded it, introducing the rose as party emblem and had distanced the Labour Party from its far-left factions.
Worth a listen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04gnjhk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just caught the end of it in the car. Was rather taken aback when, I think it was Anji Hunter, said that Blair wasn't tarnished and is still a favourite amongst the party.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 1:03 pm

LL have a live Ref blog
http://labourlist.org/2014/09/scottish- ... -liveblog/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 1:04 pm

refitman wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:The Reunion - Radio 4 this morning.

When Tony Blair delivered the phrase: 'New Labour, New Britain!' to the 1994 party conference, his first as leader, it was the result of a decade of change within the party. Kinnock had rebranded it, introducing the rose as party emblem and had distanced the Labour Party from its far-left factions.
Worth a listen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04gnjhk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just caught the end of it in the car. Was rather taken aback when, I think it was Anji Hunter, said that Blair wasn't tarnished and is still a favourite amongst the party.

That made me blink a bit as well ....

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 1:07 pm

Nick Watt:

John Reid @Alex Salmond talks as if he was Nye Bevan's drinking buddy. But he was Welsh and anti-nationalist.

He was also a former miner and union convenor, while Salmond was a banker, who by all accounts enjoyed London so much and all it's attractions it took him two years to go back to Scotland after the formation of the SP.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 1:19 pm

This is good.

Dear Scotland: An open letter from your Canadian cousins
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-de ... ard/alerts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 1:25 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Nick Watt:

John Reid @Alex Salmond talks as if he was Nye Bevan's drinking buddy. But he was Welsh and anti-nationalist.
He was also a former miner and union convenor, while Salmond was a banker, who by all accounts enjoyed London so much and all it's attractions it took him two years to go back to Scotland after the formation of the SP.

Also worth remembering that the SNP were anti-devolution!
http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress. ... evolution/

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 1:39 pm

Thank you Eric for setting me straight on Scottish (Spanish) Power.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 1:51 pm

John Harris on "Labour's Decline as an electoral force". The GMG really has no shame these days.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... oral-force" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 1:54 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:John Harris on "Labour's Decline as an electoral force". The GMG really has no shame these days.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... oral-force" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It certainly hasn't, been a while since we had a puff piece though, 24 hours I make it if you want to include Cable spinning about in a nifty little Mazda..

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... jay-rayner" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:00 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:John Harris on "Labour's Decline as an electoral force". The GMG really has no shame these days.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... oral-force" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I just read the second part of the article, about Wales, shoving flowers up Plaid Cymru's arse, again, Wood has been distinctly underwhelming, running up to Scotland trying to get some stardust from Sturgeon, yes Labour took a tonking in 2010, but he fails to acknowledge the work that has been done since.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:03 pm

: SackNickBanner.jpg (70.89 KiB) Viewed 15862 times

Tom Gordon ‏@ScottishPol 27m
On the last weekend before the #indyref why bother canvassing when you could misdirect your energy like this? pic.twitter.com/XpuLH8edFC

He might need security on future visits to Scotland ...

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:05 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
SackNickBanner.jpg

Tom Gordon ‏@ScottishPol 27m
On the last weekend before the #indyref why bother canvassing when you could misdirect your energy like this? pic.twitter.com/XpuLH8edFC
He might need security on future visits to Scotland ...

I can't really say too much after all the whinging I have done about Robinson..

But yes, what a lot of effort..

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:17 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
SackNickBanner.jpg

Tom Gordon ‏@ScottishPol 27m
On the last weekend before the #indyref why bother canvassing when you could misdirect your energy like this? pic.twitter.com/XpuLH8edFC
He might need security on future visits to Scotland ...
I can't really say too much after all the whinging I have done about Robinson..

But yes, what a lot of effort..

All I can say is, "Karma". Or do I mean to address the Scottish Nationalists? In which case I'd say, "Calmer!"

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:19 pm

Old news I know, but I'm glad British Muslims are distancing themselves so vocally from UIS.

'Islamic State' is a slur on our faith, say leading Muslims
Imams call on David Cameron and others to stop using phrase which they say gives credibility to a terrorist organisation

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/s ... id-cameron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:23 pm

John Harris is typical of that sort of soi-distant faux-"leftist" who has always been ambivalent at best about Britain's main centre-left force, whilst being ludicrously starry-eyed about any "alternative" (which included, let it never be forgotten, the LibDems prior to May 2010)

Labour have actually made a decent recovery in Scotland since the 2011 disaster - both in the polls and "real" votes. If there is a "no" vote this week, expect a clear majority of Scottish MPs to be Labour again next year. This won't fit the "narrative" of course, so expect it to be ignored by the likes of JH

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:30 pm

Anyone seen Norman Lamb anywhere? Mental health cuts kicking in. Apparently they're terrible, but what can you do, when you're the health minister? And sorry, can't come on Channel 4 News...

This site might be worth watching.

https://twitter.com/LambWatchUK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:34 pm

Ha, ha.

Lamb was calling for "on the spot fines for drunks in A&E" the other week.

Harry Clarke @horatioharry · Aug 25
@richardblogger Perhaps LD's should be "fined" for each promise broken & in proportion to no's affected! @LambWatchUK

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:34 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: Labour have actually made a decent recovery in Scotland since the 2011 disaster - both in the polls and "real" votes. If there is a "no" vote this week, expect a clear majority of Scottish MPs to be Labour again next year. This won't fit the "narrative" of course, so expect it to be ignored by the likes of JH

And ignored by many Scots, sadly.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:49 pm

On Wood's home turf, as elsewhere in Wales, what's most striking is Labour's quiet slide. In the Rhondda constituency, the party got 74.5% of the vote in 1997's Westminster elections, 68.3% in 2001, 68.1% in 2005, and a comparatively underwhelming 55.3% in 2010.

cf Welsh Assembly, Rhondda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhondda_(A ... stituency)

Labour 2011- 63.2%

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:51 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
SackNickBanner.jpg

Tom Gordon ‏@ScottishPol 27m
On the last weekend before the #indyref why bother canvassing when you could misdirect your energy like this? pic.twitter.com/XpuLH8edFC
He might need security on future visits to Scotland ...

They are really losing the plot aren't they ?

The poor fools don't realise they'll be culled by Salmond when Murdoch calls his favours back in.
Murdoch's tweet earlier was a little tightening of the screw.

Murdoch never does his own dirty work, he always get other people to do it for him.
Salmond is obliging.

Will Murdoch get the Scottish broadcasting contract ?
See how much truth those cybernats get then.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:57 pm

Claire Fox ‏@Fox_Claire 17m
Watch Live stream of #bbcbias demo, even to realise how far things have gone in creating bitterness /tensions whatever vote is #indyref

Apparently it's turned really nasty. I haven't got a link to the livestream ... possibly find one on Andrew Sparrow's live blog.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 2:59 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:John Harris is typical of that sort of soi-distant faux-"leftist" who has always been ambivalent at best about Britain's main centre-left force, whilst being ludicrously starry-eyed about any "alternative" (which included, let it never be forgotten, the LibDems prior to May 2010)

Labour have actually made a decent recovery in Scotland since the 2011 disaster - both in the polls and "real" votes. If there is a "no" vote this week, expect a clear majority of Scottish MPs to be Labour again next year. This won't fit the "narrative" of course, so expect it to be ignored by the likes of JH

He also fails to acknowledge the increase in votes under Brown in Scotland, finding disaffected voters, that's easy, I could walk out my front door and do the same, there's disaffected voters in every street, town and city in the country, and it doesn't only apply to Labour, an idealist at best. I am under no illusions that Labour in power won't do things I don't approve off, everyone on this board will feel the same about certain issues. But, and I hate this phrase it's grown up politics, those parties on the peripheries can holler blue murder, as the Lib Dems once did, Harris's former favs, but between a choice of Labour and Tories I know who I would prefer to at least do things with at least an attempt at fairness.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:01 pm

Plaid Cymru FFS, my old man told me when I was a kid they were nothing more than farming Tories who spoke Welsh, for the best part he was right.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:07 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Plaid Cymru FFS, my old man told me when I was a kid they were nothing more than farming Tories who spoke Welsh, for the best part he was right.

It might even be worse than that - according to a farming friend they (aforesaid farming Tories who speak Welsh) get Plaid Cymru to pander silly to them on the promise of votes but come the day they pretty much all vote Tory anyway.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:08 pm

Just read a tweet along the lines of ''odd to people protesting outside a broadcaster on behalf of the government''

Somehow that's scary.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:08 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Plaid Cymru FFS, my old man told me when I was a kid they were nothing more than farming Tories who spoke Welsh, for the best part he was right.
It might even be worse than that - according to a farming friend they (aforesaid farming Tories who speak Welsh) get Plaid Cymru to pander silly to them on the promise of votes but come the day they pretty much all vote Tory anyway.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:09 pm

There's a fair bit of patronising bollocks with Labour "heartlands". As if people from there shouldn't be looking for alternatives, ooh look. lose some votes among those thick Valley folk, that's terrible.

Guess what? Some of them, there being UKIP, Green, and Plaid with more of a presence, will vote for them. There's more choice. Even Labour white working class people do that. What about those Lib Dems and all their missing voters?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:10 pm

That Labour bloke in Clacton voting UKIP shouldn't be seen as a great surprise either. Lots of older people move to the Right.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:14 pm

Murdoch tightening his grip on Salmond's short and curlies.

Coincidence or fate. Sept 18th 700 years since Bannockburn threw off the English yoke. But now SNP wants to swap Uk rule for EU.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:15 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
SackNickBanner.jpg

Tom Gordon ‏@ScottishPol 27m
On the last weekend before the #indyref why bother canvassing when you could misdirect your energy like this? pic.twitter.com/XpuLH8edFC
He might need security on future visits to Scotland ...
I can't really say too much after all the whinging I have done about Robinson..

But yes, what a lot of effort..

It does make a point though doesn't it about the complacent, London-centred, public school (assuming Robinson went to one) establishment?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:15 pm

Can't help but think the sight and sounds of an angry protest outside BBC Scotland - one of the central institutions whose future structure, governance, resourcing is dependent on the outcome of the referendum - probably isn't going to reassure any undecideds of a naturally cautious frame of mind. It doesn't paint the YES supporters and their approach to negotiation and healing in a favourable light.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:18 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:That Labour bloke in Clacton voting UKIP shouldn't be seen as a great surprise either. Lots of older people move to the Right.

I've said before it's also not unreasonable for people to vote tactically for UKIP (I don't know anything about this particular case btw).

We in Labour regularly ask folk (Libs, Greens…) to lend us their vote to defeat the Tories.

I know I would never vote UKIP but I can't really criticise tactical votes for them.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:19 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:That Labour bloke in Clacton voting UKIP shouldn't be seen as a great surprise either. Lots of older people move to the Right.

Plus of course, he may well see it in this instance as the chance to give the Tories a kicking......

Ah yes, the Tories - has Harris ever mentioned, in any of his interminable "woe is Labour" pieces, that they last won outright in 1992??

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:19 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a fair bit of patronising bollocks with Labour "heartlands". As if people from there shouldn't be looking for alternatives, ooh look. lose some votes among those thick Valley folk, that's terrible.

Guess what? Some of them, there being UKIP, Green, and Plaid with more of a presence, will vote for them. There's more choice. Even Labour white working class people do that. What about those Lib Dems and all their missing voters?

This isn't the late 70s, where you bought your Mirror, or your Sun, Mail or Express, and you tended to vote amongst those lines, even white ''working class'' people like me no longer rely on those for my information.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:24 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a fair bit of patronising bollocks with Labour "heartlands". As if people from there shouldn't be looking for alternatives, ooh look. lose some votes among those thick Valley folk, that's terrible.

Guess what? Some of them, there being UKIP, Green, and Plaid with more of a presence, will vote for them. There's more choice. Even Labour white working class people do that. What about those Lib Dems and all their missing voters?
This isn't the late 70s, where you bought your Mirror, or your Sun, Mail or Express, and you tended to vote amongst those lines, even white ''working class'' people like me no longer rely on those for my information.

Did anyone notice the Express highlighting the government's current cancer failures this morning. Big ouch for Hunt I'd say.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:25 pm

The Policy Exchange Academy alleged cheating.

Seems to have been "one rogue teacher". Though one parent says an assembly was held telling kids to put hands up even if they didn't know.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-29180552" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:33 pm

Very very good - as usual - from Lesley Docksey in the Ecologist.

In Defence of Life - standing up against the lust for culling wildlife
http://www.theecologist.org/campaigning ... dlife.html
British officialdom and those they serve are obsessed with the killing of wildlife, writes Lesley Docksey. It seems that whatever the 'problem', from bovine TB to the serendipitous arrival of beavers in Devon, the reflex is the same - to kill wild animals. But increasingly, the British people aren't having it. And our fightback is making waves ....

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:37 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:There's a fair bit of patronising bollocks with Labour "heartlands". As if people from there shouldn't be looking for alternatives, ooh look. lose some votes among those thick Valley folk, that's terrible.

Guess what? Some of them, there being UKIP, Green, and Plaid with more of a presence, will vote for them. There's more choice. Even Labour white working class people do that. What about those Lib Dems and all their missing voters?
This isn't the late 70s, where you bought your Mirror, or your Sun, Mail or Express, and you tended to vote amongst those lines, even white ''working class'' people like me no longer rely on those for my information.
Did anyone notice the Express highlighting the government's current cancer failures this morning. Big ouch for Hunt I'd say.

I went in search, instead I found this, The Thick of it political team strike again.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/510666 ... at-to-work" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 3:53 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Thank you Eric for setting me straight on Scottish (Spanish) Power.

Of course, when they when they announce their stance on Catelonia...

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 4:02 pm

Incredibly, Toby has got another touchy Welsh article.

Apparently, they're touchy because... his last article showed it.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 4:06 pm

Afternoon folks,
I've been a bit ambivalent about the referendum. In particular, the opportunity to make an anti-Westminster protest vote has a lot of resonance up here. However, something that's a real cause for concern is Salmonds economic warfare. In 2011, Amazon was planning to make a major investment on Tyneside. At the last minute, the jobs (1800+) were switched to Dunfermline. Scottish Enterprise & the Scottish government put £11 million up to sweeten the deal.
We seem to be stuck between being ignored by a distant Westminster administration, and screwed by a rapacious nearby Edinburgh one.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Sun 14 Sep, 2014 4:09 pm

Alasdair Campbell:

Had my run ins with the BBC, but organised protests like this going on now is beyond Tebbit, and not far off Putin. Vote Yes for intimidation.

I fail to see whatever the result on Friday that things will go off peacefully.