Thursday 2nd April 2015

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 9:53 pm

Good closing from Miliband. Very positive. "let's bring the change that Britain needs".

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 9:54 pm

I so hope Dave fluffs this

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 9:54 pm

When is this over, please?

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 9:56 pm

5 minutes. cja

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 9:56 pm

citizenJA wrote:When is this over, please?

34 days, 2 hours and 3 minutes.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 9:57 pm

Spacedone wrote:
citizenJA wrote:When is this over, please?
34 days, 2 hours and 3 minutes.

Hurray!

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 9:57 pm

Oh shut up Nigel you poisonous little brat!

In other news, has Cameron got some new make-up? You can only see he's gone red if they catch the bald-spot or behind his ears in the camera shot...

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 9:57 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Miliband on Cameron and Clegg. "they're both blaming each other and they're both right".

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 9:59 pm

I've just made a cup of tea. All that typing made me thirsty.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:02 pm

Once again Dave talks, but doesn't actually say anything. The snag is we know the true figures. Lots don't.

Clegg is also very plausible. It's only that we know his record so hopefully he won't have won anyone fresh over.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:03 pm

From the Telegraph "Who Does Twitter Think Won The Debate". Cameron got a caning, Sturgeon was judged to have done well:

: Debate.jpg (180.81 KiB) Viewed 5905 times

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:04 pm

I love you, people.
Thank you.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:09 pm

When did tweeting someones name become a valid form of polling? Also those percentages are meaningless unless they provide the number of tweets per percentage.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:09 pm

Thanks everyone for the updates. Have to say, glad I missed it.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:11 pm

Andrew Hawkins ‏@Andrew_ComRes 1 min1 minute ago

Cameron, Ed M and Farage joint ComRes WINNERS for @itvnews #leadersdebate

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 3 mins3 minutes ago

28% said Sturgeon did best said yougov. 20% Farage. Cameron then Miliband

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:12 pm

So I'd say:

[1]Sturgeon: Cleverly sneaked in a couple of veiled nudges about supporting Labour. Why they ignore her for Salmond I can't imagine.

Equal [2] Miliband: Too polite at first. The women shouted him down at one point.
Bennett: Although stilted, and obviously ill at ease, she spoke very eloquently about most subjects. I was impressed.

Equal [3]Cameron: Smooth tongued. Dominated it. Spoke over the presenter. Didn't stop when asked.
Clegg: Also smooth tongued. If I didn't know his and LibDem record I'd have been sucked in again.

Close [4] Farage. He started off well...But then every subject that was discussed he came back to immigration.

[5] Wood. Wooden like her name although she did bravely have a go at Farage.

And I bet my formatting layout doesn't come out right.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:13 pm

Tom Clark ‏@guardian_clark 53s54 seconds ago
BREAKING Gdn/ICM Ed edges debate by a whisker. Who won? EM 25; DC 24; NF 19; NS 17; NB 3; LW2 Sample at least 1K

diGriz · Post by **diGriz** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:13 pm

From AS at the G.

ICM - Full results - Miliband wins by a whisker - Miliband 25%, Cameron 24%

And here are the full results.

Miliband wins by a whisker. Although, as I posted earlier (see 10.08pm), when respondents were asked to choose between Cameron and Miliband, it was a dead heat.

Miliband: 25%

Cameron: 24%

Farage: 19%

Sturgeon: 17%

Clegg: 9%

Bennett: 3%

Wood: 2%

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:13 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:Oh shut up Nigel you poisonous little brat!

In other news, has Cameron got some new make-up? You can only see he's gone red if they catch the bald-spot or behind his ears in the camera shot...

He was sweating heavily right at the start...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:14 pm

I feel that Ed Miliband felt, "This is pointlessly shambolic," and just gave up or lost interest towards the end. Unless I'm just projecting. I'm not sure that that was the right thing to do, though.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:14 pm

Miliband went into the audience after the 'debates'
Did any others do that?

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:15 pm

Spacedone wrote:
Andrew Hawkins ‏@Andrew_ComRes 1 min1 minute ago

Cameron, Ed M and Farage joint ComRes WINNERS for @itvnews #leadersdebate

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 3 mins3 minutes ago

28% said Sturgeon did best said yougov. 20% Farage. Cameron then Miliband

How have Cameron and Farage done better than Ed in that yougov poll?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:16 pm

The audience trust Cameron on the NHS apparently according to the BBC.

Miliband didn't do as well apparently.

Shocked, shocked I tell you.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:16 pm

How did Cameron's score get that high?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:17 pm

daydreamer wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
Andrew Hawkins ‏@Andrew_ComRes 1 min1 minute ago

Cameron, Ed M and Farage joint ComRes WINNERS for @itvnews #leadersdebate

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 3 mins3 minutes ago

28% said Sturgeon did best said yougov. 20% Farage. Cameron then Miliband
How have Cameron and Farage done better than Ed in that yougov poll?

It's owned by a Tory

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:18 pm

StephenDolan wrote:The audience trust Cameron on the NHS apparently according to the BBC.

Miliband didn't do as well apparently.

Shocked, shocked I tell you.

The audience trust Dave on the NHS?
Which audience?
What program.
What country.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:18 pm

PorFavor wrote:I feel that Ed Miliband felt, "This is pointlessly shambolic," and just gave up or lost interest towards the end. Unless I'm just projecting. I'm not sure that that was the right thing to do, though.

I didn't watch, so can't really judge. But from reading everyone's posts, I wouldn't blame him for losing interest. As you say, it probably wasn't the best idea though.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:19 pm

daydreamer wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
Andrew Hawkins ‏@Andrew_ComRes 1 min1 minute ago

Cameron, Ed M and Farage joint ComRes WINNERS for @itvnews #leadersdebate

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 3 mins3 minutes ago

28% said Sturgeon did best said yougov. 20% Farage. Cameron then Miliband
How have Cameron and Farage done better than Ed in that yougov poll?

The Yougov poll has Miliband on 15%.

Even the political journos on Twitter are commenting on how stupidly different the two instant polls results are. No guesses for which one will be most reported though.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:21 pm

PorFavor wrote:@ diGriz

I've been meaning to say this for some time now . . .

When I look at your picture\avatar thingy, I always see a side-on image of a black and white duck. It took time for me to realise that it was something different but, even now, the duck is the first thing I see and I have to crank my brain round (almost audibly) to move away from it. A bit like that old woman\young woman drawing, if you know the one I mean.

Message ends . . .

YES YES YES!!!!!!! I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR AGES AND HAD DECIDED THAT I HAD A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE! RESULT! GET IN! ROCK ON!

IT'S A FUCKING DUCK!!!!! IT REALLY IS A FUCKING DUCK!!!! I'M NOT GOING BONKERS!!!!!!!!!!!

(with thanks to Por Favor, obvs, and sorry about the caps lock fail)

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:21 pm

StephenDolan wrote:The audience trust Cameron on the NHS apparently according to the BBC.

Miliband didn't do as well apparently.

Shocked, shocked I tell you.

Yep, like I thought - MSM will spin it against Miliband.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:22 pm

Spacedone wrote:
daydreamer wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
How have Cameron and Farage done better than Ed in that yougov poll?
The Yougov poll has Miliband on 15%.

Even the political journos on Twitter are commenting on how stupidly different the two instant polls results are. No guesses for which one will be most reported though.

Well, last time it was the ICM one. So this time it will be the one that puts the Tories highest as well.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:23 pm

PorFavor wrote:I feel that Ed Miliband felt, "This is pointlessly shambolic," and just gave up or lost interest towards the end. Unless I'm just projecting. I'm not sure that that was the right thing to do, though.

Yes. I got the same impression. He's also sticking to the script, which is sensible given how the press jump on him for the slightest thing, but Cameron is so smooth tongued he makes Ed look a bit wooden.

I don't particularly like women politicians, but must say the ladies impressed me considering they've had so little experience of events like that.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:23 pm

PorFavor wrote:I feel that Ed Miliband felt, "This is pointlessly shambolic," and just gave up or lost interest towards the end. Unless I'm just projecting. I'm not sure that that was the right thing to do, though.

I don't think it was a good format for Ed, I thought he was quite withdrawn throughout. I'm not sure he could have done better and stayed true to his nature.
I didn't want him to take on Callme over mid-Staffs, it wouldn't have come over well.

We should have had Callme bingo.
drinking out of vases
Ivan
'no money left'
House!

Skipped the immigration section, couldn't face it.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:23 pm

citizenJA wrote:Miliband went into the audience after the 'debates'
Did any others do that?

Apparently, he's not a 'people person'. (sarcasm)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:24 pm

Spacedone wrote:
daydreamer wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
How have Cameron and Farage done better than Ed in that yougov poll?
The Yougov poll has Miliband on 15%.

Even the political journos on Twitter are commenting on how stupidly different the two instant polls results are. No guesses for which one will be most reported though.

YouGove poll is discredited as it crashed, I was selected and sent a link to click as the "debate" ended, the link did not work. Tried 4 or 5 times and By the time I got in the poll had closed

Just trying to complain now...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:25 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@ diGriz

I've been meaning to say this for some time now . . .

When I look at your picture\avatar thingy, I always see a side-on image of a black and white duck. It took time for me to realise that it was something different but, even now, the duck is the first thing I see and I have to crank my brain round (almost audibly) to move away from it. A bit like that old woman\young woman drawing, if you know the one I mean.

Message ends . . .
YES YES YES!!!!!!! I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR AGES AND HAD DECIDED THAT I HAD A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE! RESULT! GET IN! ROCK ON!

IT'S A FUCKING DUCK!!!!! IT REALLY IS A FUCKING DUCK!!!! I'M NOT GOING BONKERS!!!!!!!!!!!

(with thanks to Por Favor, obvs, and sorry about the caps lock fail)

I still can't get the duck back

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:27 pm

And I thought the women were a credit to their half of the human race.

Which is a hell of a lot more than you can say for Farage.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:27 pm

Spacedone wrote:
daydreamer wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
How have Cameron and Farage done better than Ed in that yougov poll?
The Yougov poll has Miliband on 15%.

Even the political journos on Twitter are commenting on how stupidly different the two instant polls results are. No guesses for which one will be most reported though.

Like Citizen just reminded me, it's owned by a Tory. And yes, it's the yougov poll that'll get reported, as that's the one that fits their narrative.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:27 pm

It's not a duck.
It's a chimpanzee pointing a gun.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:27 pm

Didn't watch it (good TBBT, we even had a rendition of "Soft Kitty") but it seems Miliband did rather well with a very important group of voters ...... again.

Mark Ferguson ‏@Markfergusonuk · Mar 26
ICM poll suggests Miliband won floating voters by almost 2-1

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:28 pm

I still want to know whether "I partly agree with Nicola" was an intentional gag from Bennett

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:29 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@ diGriz

I've been meaning to say this for some time now . . .

When I look at your picture\avatar thingy, I always see a side-on image of a black and white duck. It took time for me to realise that it was something different but, even now, the duck is the first thing I see and I have to crank my brain round (almost audibly) to move away from it. A bit like that old woman\young woman drawing, if you know the one I mean.

Message ends . . .
YES YES YES!!!!!!! I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR AGES AND HAD DECIDED THAT I HAD A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE! RESULT! GET IN! ROCK ON!

IT'S A FUCKING DUCK!!!!! IT REALLY IS A FUCKING DUCK!!!! I'M NOT GOING BONKERS!!!!!!!!!!!

(with thanks to Por Favor, obvs, and sorry about the caps lock fail)

I just can't see it at all. Looks nothing like a duck.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:29 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 30 secs30 seconds ago
Wow. Tories move to 37% in tonight's YouGov voting poll CON 37%, LAB 35%, LD 7%, UKIP 12%, GRN 5%.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:31 pm

@ ErnstRemarx

Hello!

Gawd luvaduck, a kindred spirit. How can we help poor PaulfromYorkshire get his duck back, though?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:32 pm

Spacedone wrote:
Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 30 secs30 seconds ago
Wow. Tories move to 37% in tonight's YouGov voting poll CON 37%, LAB 35%, LD 7%, UKIP 12%, GRN 5%.

I'd like to see Mike comment on the Lab + Con total over recent weeks.

The impression I get is that the minor parties are falling behind and the "two horse race" is emerging.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:33 pm

citizenJA wrote:It's not a duck.
It's a chimpanzee pointing a gun.

Exactly! They've obviously been at the Cool Aid

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:33 pm

onebuttonmonkey wrote:Hello lovely ftners. It's been a while. And I don't want to distract from the leaders debate, but I could do with your communal assistance.

So ITV Daytime are resurrecting the Kilroy format only adding more squabbling and getting it hosted by James O'Brien. I've been invited to be the voice of the people role on a panel discussing legal highs and immigration. What this means is that I'll be on a panel with (deep breath) Christine Hamilton and Jim Davidson arguing about whether immigration is good for Britain. (Grim Squeaker's favourite) Owen Jones will be in the audience for the show. And it's going to be a right grumble off. KIt's filming on Easter Sunday and, as long as a few technicalities are sorted, I'll be on it - screening daytime next week.

So the reason I'm posting this isn't to go, "oh, look, silly onebuttonmonkey's on telly, get him". It's because you're some of the most well-informed and coherent bunch of lefties I've had the privilege to know, and you all help to make me a better informed, better arguing type, even when we disagree. So what I'd like is for your help and ideas in points you would like to see made by a shouty, hairy socialist at UKIPers and Jim Davidson on telly about immigration. Any facts, figures, key points and ideas, anything you have to help me get ready for the show would be gratefully received - even if I end up too intimidated to get them out of my silly face.

Certainly, all the older members of here know me from over at the G. Feel free to send me a message or - preferably, so I can hear all your voices together - reply on this board. You can also message me on twitter. I'll be around over the next couple of days, and even if I don't reply, I'll be checking up and reading. Erm. Yeah. Please help me to savage idiotic rightwing myths espoused by idiots. I'd be very grateful...

I'll let you get back to the debate (I've just got off the phone with the producers so am a bit distracted - also, I'mstill hellish jetlagged from getting back from California two days ago). Feel free to ignore me, but you are the first people I thought of going to for help in trying to make sure the right arguments are heard above the froth, noise and prejudice...

Hi onebuttonmonkey, to call you by another name, congratulations on your forthcoming TV appearance. My first thoughts were what an opportunity for your turn of phrase, but probably not really the place face-to -face as it were or on the topics in question. More's the pity 'cause a bit of fun never goes amiss. Nevertheless these are topics that I should have an opinion on because, albeit unfamiliar with legal highs, they are related to the criminalisation of drugs, something that I do have some familiarity with in both mine and my kids' generation (clubbing scene with lots of after-parties), and the latter because I'm the son of an immigrant, my father was Anglo-Indian (European-Indian really) who came over at partition.

Having said that nothing immediately springs to mind, so I'll give it some thought. What I shall say though while on the topic of drugs is that apart from smack-heads I've never seen people with drug problems as severe as I have with booze, but then smack-heads have always been very few and far between and on the extreme fringes of any scenes I've been familiar with. I am not saying that drugs are without problems, either through cost or over-indulgence, but where socially accepted people stand by and support one another. Oh another problem is the effect of prosecution on otherwise decent folk. I could add that after my eldest was released from prison, his probation officer asked what effect his 'crime' had had on his family.

Edit; typo! I'll leave the rest 'cause I see no other red squiggly lines apart from an anglicised word.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:33 pm

Hello!
YouGove poll is discredited as it crashed, I was selected and sent a link to click as the "debate" ended, the link did not work. Tried 4 or 5 times and by the time I got in the poll had closed

Just trying to complain now...

How the hell are they quoting anything when the poll crashed out?

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:35 pm

According to a tweet I've just seen at t'Graun from ITV, ComRes say that 8% think that Sturgeon would be best to lead the United Kingdom.

According to the man in the bar in Seville, 8% of respondents are either a) Scottish nationalists, b) idiots, or c) an unholy mixture of both.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:35 pm

citizenJA wrote:It's not a duck.
It's a chimpanzee pointing a gun.

It's a ruddy duck! (Ruddy duck - get it?)

Edited to add a "d"