FlyTheNest

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:37 pm**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 30 secs30 seconds ago
Wow. Tories move to 37% in tonight's YouGov voting poll CON 37%, LAB 35%, LD 7%, UKIP 12%, GRN 5%.
I'd like to see Mike comment on the Lab + Con total over recent weeks.

The impression I get is that the minor parties are falling behind and the "two horse race" is emerging.

Maybe PfY, but it's not really a 'two horse race' if the polls re: SNP are to be believed.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:38 pm**

RogerOThornhill wrote:Cameron has just, with "a copy of the letter" there, got the quote wrong.

What a fucking liar.

His copy is the Written Chinese Whispers version mk MCXV...

I too shouted "Fucking liar!" at him. Well, at the telly. And the neighbourhood

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:40 pm**

citizenJA wrote:How did Cameron's score get that high?

He speaks fast and smoothly. Very convincing unless you know the facts behind what's coming out of his mouth.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:41 pm**

Good grief, damage limitation at Rusbridger Towers, Ed was only "fractionally" ahead appears to be the editorial line, and Tom Clark says that Ed was judged to have "won" the contest by 25% - his quote marks, not mine.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:42 pm**

Well, night all

Thanks for the commentary.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:42 pm**

utopiandreams wrote:
onebuttonmonkey wrote:Hello lovely ftners. It's been a while. And I don't want to distract from the leaders debate, but I could do with your communal assistance.

So ITV Daytime are resurrecting the Kilroy format only adding more squabbling and getting it hosted by James O'Brien. I've been invited to be the voice of the people role on a panel discussing legal highs and immigration. What this means is that I'll be on a panel with (deep breath) Christine Hamilton and Jim Davidson arguing about whether immigration is good for Britain. (Grim Squeaker's favourite) Owen Jones will be in the audience for the show. And it's going to be a right grumble off. KIt's filming on Easter Sunday and, as long as a few technicalities are sorted, I'll be on it - screening daytime next week.

So the reason I'm posting this isn't to go, "oh, look, silly onebuttonmonkey's on telly, get him". It's because you're some of the most well-informed and coherent bunch of lefties I've had the privilege to know, and you all help to make me a better informed, better arguing type, even when we disagree. So what I'd like is for your help and ideas in points you would like to see made by a shouty, hairy socialist at UKIPers and Jim Davidson on telly about immigration. Any facts, figures, key points and ideas, anything you have to help me get ready for the show would be gratefully received - even if I end up too intimidated to get them out of my silly face.

Certainly, all the older members of here know me from over at the G. Feel free to send me a message or - preferably, so I can hear all your voices together - reply on this board. You can also message me on twitter. I'll be around over the next couple of days, and even if I don't reply, I'll be checking up and reading. Erm. Yeah. Please help me to savage idiotic rightwing myths espoused by idiots. I'd be very grateful...

I'll let you get back to the debate (I've just got off the phone with the producers so am a bit distracted - also, I'mstill hellish jetlagged from getting back from California two days ago). Feel free to ignore me, but you are the first people I thought of going to for help in trying to make sure the right arguments are heard above the froth, noise and prejudice...
Hi onebuttonmonkey, to call you by another name, congratulations on your forthcoming TV appearance. My first thoughts were what an opportunity for your turn of phrase, but probably not really the place face-to -face as it were or on the topics in question. More's the pity 'cause a bit of fun never goes amiss. Nevertheless these are topics that I should have an opinion on because, albeit unfamiliar with legal highs, they are related to the criminalisation of drugs, something that I do have some familiarity with in both mine and my kids' generation (clubbing scene with lots of after-parties), and the latter because I'm the son of an immigrant, my father was Anglo-Indian (European-Indian really) who came over at partition.

Having said that nothing immediately springs to mind, so I'll give it some thought. What I shall say though while on the topic of drugs is that apart from smack-heads I've never seen people with drug problems as severe as I have with booze, but then smack-heads have always been very few and far between and on the extreme fringes of any scenes I've been familiar with. I am not saying that drugs are without problems, either through cost or over-indulgence, but where socially accepted people stand by and support one another. Oh another problem is the effect of prosecution on otherwise decent folk. I could add that after my eldest was released from prison, his probation officer asked what effect his 'crime' had had on his family.

Edit; typo! I'll leave the rest 'cause I see no other red squiggly lines apart from an anglicised word.

For an entirely different perspective, I was gripped by the recent DNA study of Britain, which is an interesting historical commentary on immigration

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015 ... n-ancestry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:44 pm**

daydreamer wrote:Well, night all Thanks for the commentary.

Do try to sound more enthusiastic . . .

Goodnight!

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:44 pm**

Evening ! Now I know what you lot do at night.
Just saw this:

Tom Clark
‏@guardian_clark
When we look at "parties standing across whole GB" Mili is four points clear. Details on Andrew Sparrow's Politics Live soon

& Have just been sent a poll about the debates from Opinium.

Have to say, I was impressed by Sturgeon [still wouldn't vote SNP], thought Ed was less relaxed than I wanted to see but he was strong and the end intervention was great.
Bennett was more likeable in a fluffy cuddly way than I thought she'd be, but unlikely to win votes.

Leanne Wood....what a brazen opportunist she was, saying Labour & Tories were using the NHS as a political football when that's what she and her party do in Wales, and forgetting to mention that Plaid were in government in Wales until recently.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:46 pm**

PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:It's not a duck.
It's a chimpanzee pointing a gun.
It's a ruddy duck! (Ruddy duck - get it?)

Edited to add a "d"

It's a duck. It's a duck dressed up like a chimpanzee pointing a gun.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:46 pm**

Our man Matthew Holehouse has talked to the debate heckler

Victoria Prosser, 33, is a counsellor of alcoholics from Salford. She studied psychology at Salford University and voted Green at last election. She has a daughter, Lily, who is seven. Ms Prosser also volunteers with homeless on weekends.

Matthew Holehouse "eMs Prosser said she did not plan on interrupting the debate. She said she was angered when Cameron mentioned his disabled son Ivan as she knows people whose benefits were cut. "I thought, eugh, God rest his soul don't mention that!"

She was also angry when Cameron mentioned troops: "I see them on the streets every day. How dare he put them forward when they are suffering on the streets every day. He is using their name just to garner votes.

She said she apologised if she had spoilt the programme for viewers. "I apologise to any members of the public who are offended by what I did. I was emotionally moved by David Cameron using vulnerable people as a vote winner. My cause is free speaking the truth, and making sure people at the top start questioning the people at the top, the one per cent".

From the Telegraph blog.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:46 pm**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:
onebuttonmonkey wrote:Hello lovely ftners. It's been a while. And I don't want to distract from the leaders debate, but I could do with your communal assistance.

So ITV Daytime are resurrecting the Kilroy format only adding more squabbling and getting it hosted by James O'Brien. I've been invited to be the voice of the people role on a panel discussing legal highs and immigration. What this means is that I'll be on a panel with (deep breath) Christine Hamilton and Jim Davidson arguing about whether immigration is good for Britain. (Grim Squeaker's favourite) Owen Jones will be in the audience for the show. And it's going to be a right grumble off. KIt's filming on Easter Sunday and, as long as a few technicalities are sorted, I'll be on it - screening daytime next week.

So the reason I'm posting this isn't to go, "oh, look, silly onebuttonmonkey's on telly, get him". It's because you're some of the most well-informed and coherent bunch of lefties I've had the privilege to know, and you all help to make me a better informed, better arguing type, even when we disagree. So what I'd like is for your help and ideas in points you would like to see made by a shouty, hairy socialist at UKIPers and Jim Davidson on telly about immigration. Any facts, figures, key points and ideas, anything you have to help me get ready for the show would be gratefully received - even if I end up too intimidated to get them out of my silly face.

Certainly, all the older members of here know me from over at the G. Feel free to send me a message or - preferably, so I can hear all your voices together - reply on this board. You can also message me on twitter. I'll be around over the next couple of days, and even if I don't reply, I'll be checking up and reading. Erm. Yeah. Please help me to savage idiotic rightwing myths espoused by idiots. I'd be very grateful...

I'll let you get back to the debate (I've just got off the phone with the producers so am a bit distracted - also, I'mstill hellish jetlagged from getting back from California two days ago). Feel free to ignore me, but you are the first people I thought of going to for help in trying to make sure the right arguments are heard above the froth, noise and prejudice...
Hi onebuttonmonkey, to call you by another name, congratulations on your forthcoming TV appearance. My first thoughts were what an opportunity for your turn of phrase, but probably not really the place face-to -face as it were or on the topics in question. More's the pity 'cause a bit of fun never goes amiss. Nevertheless these are topics that I should have an opinion on because, albeit unfamiliar with legal highs, they are related to the criminalisation of drugs, something that I do have some familiarity with in both mine and my kids' generation (clubbing scene with lots of after-parties), and the latter because I'm the son of an immigrant, my father was Anglo-Indian (European-Indian really) who came over at partition.

Having said that nothing immediately springs to mind, so I'll give it some thought. What I shall say though while on the topic of drugs is that apart from smack-heads I've never seen people with drug problems as severe as I have with booze, but then smack-heads have always been very few and far between and on the extreme fringes of any scenes I've been familiar with. I am not saying that drugs are without problems, either through cost or over-indulgence, but where socially accepted people stand by and support one another. Oh another problem is the effect of prosecution on otherwise decent folk. I could add that after my eldest was released from prison, his probation officer asked what effect his 'crime' had had on his family.

Edit; typo! I'll leave the rest 'cause I see no other red squiggly lines apart from an anglicised word.
For an entirely different perspective, I was gripped by the recent DNA study of Britain, which is an interesting historical commentary on immigration

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015 ... n-ancestry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Funnily enough, I'm French American and Irish English and was born in Gernamny. So, you know, I'm about 26% more British than "our" royal family. Good stuff that report - thanks for reminding me of it.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:46 pm**

daydreamer wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
I'd like to see Mike comment on the Lab + Con total over recent weeks.

The impression I get is that the minor parties are falling behind and the "two horse race" is emerging.
Maybe PfY, but it's not really a 'two horse race' if the polls re: SNP are to be believed.

As folk here know I'm resigned to a Labour - SNP alliance of some form. So all I really care about is who is winning in England.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:47 pm**

goodnight, Daydreamer

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:49 pm**

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:49 pm**

Cameron gets 3/10 from the Telegraph political correspondent. Three.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:49 pm**

You know how badly Cameron did when even the sycophantic Tom Newton Dunn said he didn't drop the ball; he was competent but didn't end up everybody's best friend.

Sorry Ohso, I can't agree Bennett did well. I thought she was terrible but then again I live in an all-male household so maybe I just don't get this woman to woman thing.

I gave it primarily to Sturgeon because she could say whatever she wanted to - she won't be PM & already has a huge vote in Scotland that she knows she's secure.

Ed was a clear 2nd imo. Straight answers but I do so wish he would defend his position better when it's under attack - especially from CamerClegg.

Tonight's yougov poll showing 37% for the Cons is still only 2% ahead of Labour.

Oh look, first question on QT & it's competence v chaos soundbite trotted out

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:50 pm**

Hobiejoe wrote:Good grief, damage limitation at Rusbridger Towers, Ed was only "fractionally" ahead appears to be the editorial line, and Tom Clark says that Ed was judged to have "won" the contest by 25% - his quote marks, not mine.

So, that's a Labour majority. Good.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:50 pm**

daydreamer wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
I'd like to see Mike comment on the Lab + Con total over recent weeks.

The impression I get is that the minor parties are falling behind and the "two horse race" is emerging.
Maybe PfY, but it's not really a 'two horse race' if the polls re: SNP are to be believed.

I think SNP have a very good chance especially if Salmond keeps out of it...But I doubt that'll happen.

As I was typing at the same time as listening on my earphones I didn't have them on screen. Just their voices and through doing the two things at once wasn't as involved as I would be normally.

I tried to approach it as if I was undecided and not particularly up to date with what goes on in Westminster, especially if I only used the BBC for my daily dose of news. Which is why I thought Clegg came across very well.

We have to remember that a great many voters will toddle along to do their duty with only a fleeting idea of who or what their candidate stands for.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:55 pm**

@ Onebuttonmonkey

I keenly watched that O'Brien show on Tuesday but it's a horror show !

People yelling over each other & jumping to conclusions based on their pre-conceived opinions.

Shudder.....

Let me know when you're on though & I will watch that particular show

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:56 pm**

ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:How did Cameron's score get that high?
He speaks fast and smoothly. Very convincing unless you know the facts behind what's coming out of his mouth.

But he's sweaty & his face gets red.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:56 pm**

Goodnight, everyone.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 10:56 pm**

daydreamer wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Spacedone wrote:
I'd like to see Mike comment on the Lab + Con total over recent weeks.

The impression I get is that the minor parties are falling behind and the "two horse race" is emerging.
Maybe PfY, but it's not really a 'two horse race' if the polls re: SNP are to be believed.

That poll is clearly a massive outlier. Both Tory and Labour vote up, but nobody else's really down. An investigation of the tables might shed some light.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:00 pm**

refitman wrote:Is it me, or has Clegg been largely absent for most of this?

If you were looking away from the telly, his voice has become harder to distinguish from Cameron's. Fooled me a few times.

In other newsthatsnotnews MC was hopeless.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:00 pm**

Looks like the YouGov poll crash wasn't just you, Angry.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:01 pm**

So we had Ivan. the note that said sorry there's no money left, and drinking out of flower vases.
I like it that Farage jumped on him over the debt figures. I think he'd have got away with it otherwise.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:01 pm**

So the Guardian poll was the one quoted constantly(including the times, who ignored their own) after the last 'debate', so that's what the media will be referencing this time, yeah? Hang on, Miliband was deemed the winner. Let's have a rethink.

Subtle as a sledgehammer the bias.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:03 pm**

Spacedone wrote:Looks like the YouGov poll crash wasn't just you just you Angry.

It crashed on two devices here. Both me & my husband had an invite - me for 8-9 & him at 9-10 - and both times the app kept showing it to be 'recording' rather than closing.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:06 pm**

Gove is really struggling on QT.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:10 pm**

Mick retweeted
colin price ‏@colinsp 1 min1 minute ago
@RichVPoor @Mickster_1 @TheSunNewspaper #bbcqt

Gove cornered. As good as admits the tories will do deal with UKIP.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:12 pm**

WTF has happened to Peter Hitchins ?

He has argued with *every* single thing Gove has said !

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:13 pm**

LadyCentauria wrote:
refitman wrote:Is it me, or has Clegg been largely absent for most of this?
If you were looking away from the telly, his voice has become harder to distinguish from Cameron's. Fooled me a few times.

In other newsthatsnotnews MC was hopeless.

How strange, I thought that too. I was only listening and had to double check by what they were saying to decide who was who.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:13 pm**

goodnight, PF

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:14 pm**

Night all.

Night PF

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:14 pm**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:... For an entirely different perspective, I was gripped by the recent DNA study of Britain, which is an interesting historical commentary on immigration

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015 ... n-ancestry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks Paul, there is some English ancestry (or whatever), but primarily Southern European (Spanish/Portuguese) in my dad's case

Edit: oh and of course Indian.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:16 pm**

goodnight, friends
love
cJA

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:21 pm**

Papers and their lies

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:23 pm**

Got to laugh at the desperation of the Scum.

Ed lost his temper apparently - yup, we all saw that didn't we.......

Oh.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:27 pm**

pk1 wrote:Got to laugh at the desperation of the Scum.

Ed lost his temper apparently - yup, we all saw that didn't we.......

Oh.

Fortunately nobody cares what The Sun says anymore.

The copy was written before the debates finished, but the story was filed a week ago. I am guessing the result of this will be no change.

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:28 pm**

pk1 wrote:Got to laugh at the desperation of the Scum.

Ed lost his temper apparently - yup, we all saw that didn't we.......

Oh.

No he just got distracted by that bird's tits (look at the front page before you think I've lost it

)

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:35 pm**

Did the Sun and DT write those headlines before the debate?

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:37 pm**

In other news:

Jason Seiken resignation: Telegraph editor-in-chief quits after just 18 months in role

The editor-in-chief of Telegraph Media Group, Jason Seiken, has stood down from the role after just 18 months.

Seiken was hired in September 2013 and made the move from head of digital at US broadcaster PBS to take up the newly created job title of chief content officer and editor-in-chief.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media ... 51966.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:44 pm**

Graun

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:52 pm**

Is there hope for the Guardian?

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:55 pm**

And even for Nick Robinson?

I thought this was quite an interesting observation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32172100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted: **Thu 02 Apr, 2015 11:57 pm**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Is there hope for the Guardian?

They are being completely fair.

They live and die by ICM, ICM gave Miliband the edge and they printed that story.

In fact given YouGov seemed to have technical issues and ComRes is ComRes I suspect going with ICM is a good call.

Posted: **Fri 03 Apr, 2015 12:05 am**

Another debate poll, this one from Survation

Survation/Mirror (winner): DC 25 EM 25 NC 6 NF 24 NB 3 NS 15 LW 2

I'm getting the impression that these polls are pretty pointless, everyone just seems to vote for their own regardless of what they did on the night with the exception of the floating voters who go for the freshest unknown ala Clegg 2010.

Posted: **Fri 03 Apr, 2015 12:07 am**

All of this begs the question, how will Miliband approach the challengers debate.

I suspect his best option would be to hammer Bennett and Wood, politely. As for Sturgeon an approach might be to take the argument away.

- Labour believes in a United Kingdom, because we believe we are better together, the SNP does not; and we respect that.

- Labour believes that this comes down to economics, and how is the prosperity of Scottish people preserved. This is an argument for Scotland by Scotland and I look forward to seeing Ms Sturgeon and Mr Murphy fight it out.

- We believe in progressive politics, we recognise the SNP have similar views and we respect that. But the best way to keep Cameron out is still to vote Labour where there is a sitting MP.

- Let's all slag off Farage and Cameron.

Posted: **Fri 03 Apr, 2015 12:10 am**

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Is there hope for the Guardian?

No, if this is anything to go by.

http://www.theguardian.com/discussion/p/4785q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And if your wondering why that headline makes no sense, its becouse it said "Three Women Against Four Public Schoolboys" until about twenty minutes ago.

Posted: **Fri 03 Apr, 2015 12:10 am**

I recorded NewsNight & they had a panel of undecided voters.

They gave it to Cameron & Bennett !!

One woman who thought Clegg had done 'brilliantly' (I kid you not) said she wouldn't be able to trust Ed because she felt he was trying to sell her a car & it was all about when he is PM.

She must be habitually disappointed to discover that politics involves having a PM who knows what he wants to do - maybe she's never heard the prospective PM being straight with her before....

Posted: **Fri 03 Apr, 2015 12:10 am**

I only saw the first half of that - thought Farage was somehow even more of a despicable noxious shit than I'd expected and I very much liked the fact that the audience broke what must have been a 'no applause' rule when Leanne Wood called him out on it (and I might have more generally fallen a little bit in love with her), that Clegg was a complete and utter irrelevance and was pretty much treated as such, that Cameron was complacent and dull (when he wasn't being a lying little shit) and that Ed was, once again, making the tories wish they hadn't spent five years telling everyone he was a liability. I would have kind of liked to hear him respond more specifically to some of Cameron's utter bullshit but at the same time it was Ed who did what everyone said Cameron was aiming to do, and took the higher ground and stood off from the nonsense. Farage was a vile, bumptious arrogant little schoolboy in the first half and I despair of this country if any poll could do anything other than write him off. And god bless Gary Lineker.

Edited to add - and very much like on Free Speech, Sturgeon was competent and effective, and Bennett was on a hiding to nothing but stuck to her guns.

FlyTheNest

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