Tuesday 7th April 2015

Post by **refitman** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 7:14 am

Morning all.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 8:29 am

Back from a blissful long weekend in the Lakes.

Caught up with much of the political news from here but had to skip through - so many posts!

So, what is #hotdoggate please?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 8:32 am

Is it to do with lambgate ?
This image forewarns voters what Cameron's really like.
Cuddle you one minute, have you killed and carved the next.

https://twitter.com/search?q=hotdoggate&src=typd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[can't seem to be able to post it - it is of Cameron sitting with knife and fork in front of a big plate of lamb chops.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 8:39 am

Moraftinevenoon....

#hotdoggate seems to be the Tory version of the bacon sandwich....in that OGRFG has been photographed eating a hot dog...but he's so much more switched on and clever than nasty weak Mr Ed, he used a knife and fork, just like Nanny taught him, to avoid any 'unflattering' images.

...and it seems not everything is going the way of the SNP...

A KEY figure in the independence movement has sensationally defected to Labour – and claimed many SNP activists really ARE hoping for a Tory victory.
Nicola Sturgeon’s election campaign suffered a major setback last night after Asians for Independence organiser Muhammad Shoaib resigned from her party in disgust.
Shoaib – who worked closely with SNP leaders during the referendum campaign - said he was “shocked” at the way senior SNP members in Sturgeon’s Glasgow constituency are secretly backing another five years of David Cameron.
The former Pollokshields SNP branch convener shared a platform with Sturgeon and former first minister Alex Salmond during the referendum campaign as their party stepped up efforts to reach out to Asian voters.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... ur-5469873

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 8:41 am

Here you go....

http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/silver-service

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 8:44 am

Thanks for the SNP link Wolfie.
Was just saying yesterday to my other half, if only an SNPer would be brave enough to tell the truth.

Have put the link on AS's blog, will probably get major 45-er verbal abuse for it, but at the moment it's swear at Blair time over there.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 8:51 am

Lonewolfie wrote:Here you go....

http://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/silver-service

Thanks I'm now fully up to date!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 8:55 am

Happy birthday Gilsey - hope the sun is shining on you today.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 9:08 am

Echoing yahyah with Happy Birthday wishes for gilsey. It's a super sunny morning here - hope it is the same for you.

Seems we have quite a few spring birthday folks here ---- I hope you all feel like spring chickens inside regardless of actual years on the clock.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 9:08 am

NHS faces financial ‘black hole’
Analysis shows fall in productivity after reforms pushed up costs

FT - I don't have access

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 9:09 am

yahyah wrote:Thanks for the SNP link Wolfie.
Was just saying yesterday to my other half, if only an SNPer would be brave enough to tell the truth.

Have put the link on AS's blog, will probably get major 45-er verbal abuse for it, but at the moment it's swear at Blair time over there.

The Nats are in damage limitation mode (DefCon45) over on Twitter!! Apparently he failed to get selected as a PPC (and he alleges impropriety in the selection process) so some are dismissing it as sour grapes, or digging into his past and trying to discredit him that way.

Happy Birthday Gilsey.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 9:12 am

yahyah wrote:Thanks for the SNP link Wolfie.
Was just saying yesterday to my other half, if only an SNPer would be brave enough to tell the truth.

Have put the link on AS's blog, will probably get major 45-er verbal abuse for it, but at the moment it's swear at Blair time over there.

Trouble is, any SNPer with political ambitions needs to more than brave to speak up. (cue Monty Python sketch about becoming an ex-SNPer etc):

A controversial change to standing orders was overwhelmingly agreed at conference yesterday and states that no MPs shall “publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group”.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3732693

edited to make sense.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 9:15 am

Humphreys tried to pull Natalie Bennett apart on Radio 4 ... same old stuff about terrorist group membership, pulling out of NATO and getting rid of the standing army, making army bases windfarms and nature reserves .... and whether the citizen's income is doable or not, a long term aim or a manifesto commitment. And, of course, the Green council in Brighton's lamentable record on recycling. He's very derivative I've decided - not a single new line of enquiry that I heard - she kept her cool. He finished with a flourish by thanking her but as 'Caroline Lucas'. How offensive is that? Very similar to the far too often made slip by interviewers and commentators re using David Miliband rather than Ed Miliband when discussing Labour. I heard that done twice in as many sentences the other evening with no correction by anyone. To give her credit Bennett laughed when Humphreys did it ... only way to respond really.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 9:19 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
yahyah wrote:Thanks for the SNP link Wolfie.
Was just saying yesterday to my other half, if only an SNPer would be brave enough to tell the truth.

Have put the link on AS's blog, will probably get major 45-er verbal abuse for it, but at the moment it's swear at Blair time over there.
The Nats are in damage limitation mode (DefCon45) over on Twitter!! Apparently he failed to get selected as a PPC (and he alleges impropriety in the selection process) so some are dismissing it as sour grapes, or digging into his past and trying to discredit him that way.

Happy Birthday Gilsey.

He's not the first then:

A FORMER UK ambassador who was sacked by Tony Blair’s government a decade ago has been blocked from standing as an SNP candidate at the next general election because of a “lack of a commitment to group discipline”.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3645014

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 9:21 am

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 10m10 minutes ago
What does it say about current Labour party that Tony Blair is not making his 'Brexit' warning speech tday in a marginal seat?

It says Labour has moved well on from his days - that the party has got its own people, plans and activities in place in the marginal seats - and that he just isn't the essential element that the media would like to pretend he is for Labour - he really isn't.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 9:30 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:NHS faces financial ‘black hole’
Analysis shows fall in productivity after reforms pushed up costs

FT - I don't have access

The National Health Service is facing an even bigger financial “black hole” than politicians and health leaders have acknowledged, following a sharp fall in productivity revealed in an analysis of official data for the Financial Times.

The research, carried out by the Health Foundation, an independent think-tank, shows that despite an inflation-protected budget, hospital productivity tumbled from 2012 as the NHS prepared for, then implemented, a contentious structural shake-up that stripped out layers of management and handed budget control to clinicians.

Government pressure on hospitals to hire more nurses following a 2013 inquiry into a care scandal at a Staffordshire hospital further hit financial performance as many NHS institutions hired agency staff, substantially inflating the health service pay bill, the analysis found.

The findings will fuel the general election debate over the coalition’s management of the NHS and suggests whichever party forms the next government may confront an immediate imperative to inject more money into the health service.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 9:30 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 10m10 minutes ago
What does it say about current Labour party that Tony Blair is not making his 'Brexit' warning speech tday in a marginal seat?
It says Labour has moved well on from his days - that the party has got its own people, plans and activities in place in the marginal seats - and that he just isn't the essential element that the media would like to pretend he is for Labour - he really isn't.

It says that the new Labour lovies in the MSM need to accept it's time to move on.

Something I've been pondering on recently is how much a successful neighbouring MP impacts on the prospects in a constituency. Does a first time incumbent factor affect 'next door'?

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 9:42 am

I've no idea why nobody (in the MSM) has the slightest interest in repeating/publicising this - although, as has always been the case, the threat of losing your livelihood by producing balanced, well-thought out reporting (that is in direct opposition to the unspoken 'party line') focuses the mind somewhat...

“Power without responsibility - the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages”

Since April 1979, no British government has been elected without the support of Rupert Murdoch. That does not necessarily mean that it was Murdoch who won each battle. The facts and figures are too complex for such a simple conclusion. What it means is that politicians fear that his power may possibly be decisive, and so they play safe with him. At least, they persuade themselves that they are safe.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... rt-murdoch

...now I know there is a political party in Britain that has metaphorically stuck 2 fingers up at Murkydochia, but as they're all the same I can't work out who it is

edited to add 'comma'

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 10:00 am

The other day I spoke of not kicking the crutches away and holding out a hand and this morning read an article in the G where they termed it 'a hand on the shoulder', How Glasgow cut its murder rate in half by 'caring people into change': http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... ime-police

Not quite what I was speaking of but still one of guidance and support, which unsurprisingly is now short-funded. Other than funding issues I felt quite uplifted by the work of the Violence Reduction Unit, not that I would do it myself but then I started to read btl. No wonder I feel disenchanted so frequently. Anyway it got me thinking back to the Scotland Road Free School in Liverpool back in the early seventies whose teachers and pupils I would sometimes encounter in my shop. I didn't know too much about them but had the impression that most of the kids had been excluded from other schools but cannot find too much about them online, The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29518319

There is some mention of probation and truancy but nothing to confirm my suspicions. Anyway what I wanted to say was that the kids seemed all the better for the respect that they were shown and seemed genuinely interested in others and their surroundings. As for academic achievements then having read the above article, the less said the better.

Edit: fixed a broken link.

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 10:01 am

StephenDolan wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 10m10 minutes ago
What does it say about current Labour party that Tony Blair is not making his 'Brexit' warning speech tday in a marginal seat?
It says Labour has moved well on from his days - that the party has got its own people, plans and activities in place in the marginal seats - and that he just isn't the essential element that the media would like to pretend he is for Labour - he really isn't.
It says that the new Labour lovies in the MSM need to accept it's time to move on.

Something I've been pondering on recently is how much a successful neighbouring MP impacts on the prospects in a constituency. Does a first time incumbent factor affect 'next door'?

Just this minute completed a yougov survey, one of the three political questions was 'Tony Blair is making a speech today supporting the Labour party. Will this assist or hinder Labour's campaign?' (paraphrased)
The other two were about school discipline and abortion.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 10:02 am

yahyah wrote:Thanks for the SNP link Wolfie.
Was just saying yesterday to my other half, if only an SNPer would be brave enough to tell the truth.

Have put the link on AS's blog, will probably get major 45-er verbal abuse for it, but at the moment it's swear at Blair time over there.

With the Stalinist approach to 'groupthink' I've a feeling there could be more...they've got to keep attacking Labour (Murkydochia/the MSM/Greens/UKIP/SNP/Plaid/Lost Deposits and Tories), for fear of the truth arriving in the sunlit uplands, blinking in the brightness of the light finally being shone on it after being released from the dungeons in the Mist of Murkydochia.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 10:43 am

Blair on R5Live now - he's still good!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:01 am

Miliband's consistency indicates his honesty & integrity. He's already said he doesn't watch TV News - he told us this last year, if not earlier. This part of the G headline comes as no surprise to me.

Ed Miliband: I'd defend the licence fee (but don't ask me to watch BBC news)

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... watch-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's more in the article & subtitle I'm declining to comment on at this time.

It's a beautiful day & I'm glad Gilsey was born.
Good morning, friends.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:07 am

AngryAsWell wrote:Blair on R5Live now - he's still good!

I agree.
The former Tory party usurper of Labour leadership from almost two decades ago has virtues totally absent from the modern Tory party.

edited to add the G had an innocuous image of T Blair for several minutes
It was replaced with an 'Il Duce' pose

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:18 am

AngryAsWell wrote:Blair on R5Live now - he's still good!

Whether or not you agree with his politics, Blair is an accomplished performer and polished speaker, AngryAsWell. Cameron on the other hand seems condescending and adopts the manner of one who instructs what you should be thinking. Worse than that his words are completely at odds with his actions, lies to put it another way. Miliband for all the media's portrayal of him has had 4/5 years of growing into the role. He is certainly more accomplished at public speaking than once he was and at least projects sincerity, interest in audience's views for that matter.

As for Shapps and his dismissal of Ed's debate's performance, I can't remember how he put it, but what the hell does he think of his own performances? As I said in the other place, they've removed the mirrors from the Cabinet Office and replaced the door sign with 'Projection Room'.

Edit: misplaced comma.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:24 am

Good morfternoon.

I've read the text, over at the Guardian's Election Blog, of Tony Blair's speech. I've never been a big fan of the man - but it was very well-crafted - clear and to the point.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:31 am

citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Blair on R5Live now - he's still good!
I agree.
The former Tory party usurper of Labour leadership from almost two decades ago has virtues totally absent from the modern Tory party.

I happen to have agreed with everything he said about the EU and Scotland. The fact he said it - and said it well - does not mean I need to change my mind about either just to disagree with him.
I would have preferred him to keep out of things and not cause controversy at this point in the election, or to remind his committed haters that he's still around.
No matter what people think of him, life in the UK under his time in office was settled, kinder and more friendly for the sick & disabled, the unemployed, the young and the old and otherwise disadvantaged. In fact it was a gentler, nicer country all round.

Does he still have a way with words that commands attention? Yes.
Would I like to see him back? No.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:36 am

Blair is still world class. That was a fantastic hammering of Cameron. Even better he gets sympathetic coverage in the media.

But he needs to be kept within a constrained box. Europe is about the only thing the modern Labour Party really agrees with him on. That said his answer on inequality was top draw.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:36 am

I've now got "Fight Test" by Flaming Lips stuck in my head (which is no bad thing, I might add) as always happens when I see the Guardian's "the event has ended" thing. (It reminds me of the line\lyric "the test is over".)

Edited to add a "the"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:42 am

Excellent posts here - thank you.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:44 am

AngryAsWell wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Blair on R5Live now - he's still good!
I agree.
The former Tory party usurper of Labour leadership from almost two decades ago has virtues totally absent from the modern Tory party.
I happen to have agreed with everything he said about the EU and Scotland. The fact he said it - and said it well - does not mean I need to change my mind about either just to disagree with him.
I would have preferred him to keep out of things and not cause controversy at this point in the election, or to remind his committed haters that he's still around.
No matter what people think of him, life in the UK under his time in office was settled, kinder and more friendly for the sick & disabled, the unemployed, the young and the old and otherwise disadvantaged. In fact it was a gentler, nicer country all round.

Does he still have a way with words that commands attention? Yes.
Would I like to see him back? No.

He was inevitably going to weigh in at some point, so best it were done in a way where he can add something positive to the campaign; actually, he managed two positives, a strong & unequivocal statement on Europe which will be tricky to refute and driving OGRFG's regional tour off the news (they'll be too busy concentrating on Blair to bother with Dave's little stunt). Loathe him or hate him, he is a canny operator and this has been timed to perfection.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:48 am

Why are most people wrong about everything? For example, after 30 odd years of reporting 'the troubles' in NI, most people thought that a) it was all about religion and b) the catholics were oppressing the protestants. Another example : after 40 odd years of reporting the Israeli occupation of Palestine, most people thought that Palestine occupied Israel.

Well done BBC News and Current Affairs!

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:51 am

Why do most people think that the number of 'immigrants' is much higher than it is? Why do people think that benefits are much higher than they really are? Why do people think that they are 'middle class'? Why do they think that wealth is much more evenly spread than it really is?

Take a bow, boys and girls of the BBC News!

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 11:59 am

mikems wrote:Why do most people think that the number of 'immigrants' is much higher than it is? Why do people think that benefits are much higher than they really are? Why do people think that they are 'middle class'? Why do they think that wealth is much more evenly spread than it really is?

Take a bow, boys and girls of the BBC News!

Hard to disagree. The media is shocking at reporting stuff. The BBC has a particular problem that it is staffed by arts students who don't understand evidence and balance.

In climate change you do not achieve balance by offering equal time to advocates and deniers as the latter have no evidence base to argue from.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:00 pm

mikems wrote:Why are most people wrong about everything? For example, after 30 odd years of reporting 'the troubles' in NI, most people thought that a) it was all about religion and b) the catholics were oppressing the protestants. Another example : after 40 odd years of reporting the Israeli occupation of Palestine, most people thought that Palestine occupied Israel.

Well done BBC News and Current Affairs!

Whatever the causes of dispute in NI, mikems, religion or unionism, I met many Catholic and Protestant youngsters (late teens and early twenties) on this side of the Irish Sea in the early seventies. What perticularly stood out was how much they had in common and how well they all got on, but back in Belfast would never meet each other, in fact were afraid to even show any consideration for the 'other' side. Which only goes to show how ridiculous Gove's religious schools are, segregation is the greatest enemy.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:01 pm

mikems wrote:Why do most people think that the number of 'immigrants' is much higher than it is? Why do people think that benefits are much higher than they really are? Why do people think that they are 'middle class'? Why do they think that wealth is much more evenly spread than it really is?

Take a bow, boys and girls of the BBC News!

Powerful people & their little groups decide the stories most people get to see, hear & read about. I purchased a University education & discovered my childhood was littered with lies from mostly well-intentioned, ignorant people.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:08 pm

Top two stories on the BBC news website.

Blair backing Miliband 100%

A&E waiting times hits record worst levels.

Not a good morning for Cameron and Clegg.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:12 pm

James Landale "This Tony Blair event very nostalgic. A member of the audience even called me "Tory scum" for asking a question. "

It isn't asking the question that makes that true James.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:14 pm

citizenJA wrote:... I purchased a University education ...

I'm very pleased that you put it this way, citizenJA. Not that it happened often, but occasionally as an OU tutor, I would have a falling out with a student over their work, usually if they'd received low(ish) marks for an assignment. One of the problems was that rather than paying for an education their perception was one of buying their degree. I see some parallels with those attending universities these days since the removal of grants and the introduction of tuition fees. Of course I'm not suggesting that students should not criticise the tuition they receive, constructively I hope

Edit: closed quote correctly. Mmm, the problems of editing out some of it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:25 pm

But he sounded like he meant it when he said that Miliband was right to identify inequality as the great challenge of our time, even if his follow-up about Miliband having “excellent policies” in this area was perhaps less persuasive. (Guardian Election Blog)

I'm more than willing to believe that Tony Blair thinks that Ed Miliband is a shade (!) too "left" for his (TB's) liking but - really? This is an extrapolation too far.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:39 pm

PorFavor wrote:
But he sounded like he meant it when he said that Miliband was right to identify inequality as the great challenge of our time, even if his follow-up about Miliband having “excellent policies” in this area was perhaps less persuasive. (Guardian Election Blog)
I'm more than willing to believe that Tony Blair thinks that Ed Miliband is a shade (!) too "left" for his (TB's) liking but - really? This is an extrapolation too far.

This is the quote - how on earth does whoever is blogging at the G arrive at that assumption?

"I agree completely with what he’s saying about the central challenge of inequality in our country today. I think he’s absolutely right to know that the times have changed, that this is a huge issue for people, and I think he’s got an excellent set of policies to deal with it."

I despair I really do!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:41 pm

CCHQ Press Office retweeted
George Osborne ‏@George_Osborne 13 mins13 minutes ago

A permanent deficit under Labour costs £3bn extra on debt interest payments in next parliament.That's £3bn we can't use for NHS &lower taxes

I read this as no tax reductions for the poorer, carry on with starving the NHS, and it's all Labours fault.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:54 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
But he sounded like he meant it when he said that Miliband was right to identify inequality as the great challenge of our time, even if his follow-up about Miliband having “excellent policies” in this area was perhaps less persuasive. (Guardian Election Blog)
I'm more than willing to believe that Tony Blair thinks that Ed Miliband is a shade (!) too "left" for his (TB's) liking but - really? This is an extrapolation too far.
This is the quote - how on earth does whoever is blogging at the G arrive at that assumption?

"I agree completely with what he’s saying about the central challenge of inequality in our country today. I think he’s absolutely right to know that the times have changed, that this is a huge issue for people, and I think he’s got an excellent set of policies to deal with it."

I despair I really do!

Yes. I know the Guardian's website and comments pages are all over the place these days but even I can access and read the header - which goes as follows:

Election 2015: I support Ed Miliband 100%, says Tony Blair - live updates

As I recall, it's quite large and in a bright red box. Someone should tell the staff.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:54 pm

So...on NHS stories we have in the last few days/weeks:

1. A&E figures that are the worst ever
2. Knee jerk reaction to Mid Staffs means that NHS finances are in a critical state
3. Tories burying Stuart Rose's report as it almost certainly says that Lansley's 'reforms' are crap.

All good then...

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 12:55 pm

utopiandreams wrote:
mikems wrote:Why are most people wrong about everything? For example, after 30 odd years of reporting 'the troubles' in NI, most people thought that a) it was all about religion and b) the catholics were oppressing the protestants. Another example : after 40 odd years of reporting the Israeli occupation of Palestine, most people thought that Palestine occupied Israel.

Well done BBC News and Current Affairs!
Whatever the causes of dispute in NI, mikems, religion or unionism, I met many Catholic and Protestant youngsters (late teens and early twenties) on this side of the Irish Sea in the early seventies. What perticularly stood out was how much they had in common and how well they all got on, but back in Belfast would never meet each other, in fact were afraid to even show any consideration for the 'other' side. Which only goes to show how ridiculous Gove's religious schools are, segregation is the greatest enemy.

I remember an interview with Warren Mitchell back in the early 90s which talked about this; he'd been filming (the shortlived sitcom) "So You Think You've Got Troubles" which dealt, at least in part, with the divide between the communities - a couple of episodes revolved around the knotty problem of bringing some Catholic workers into a mainly Protestant workforce. Daring stuff for its day, which is possibly why it only had the one series.

Anyway, Mitchell went on Wogan and talked about how alien he found the environment. He said that on more than once occasion he was asked about his religion/allegiances; when he told them he was Jewish they invariably asked "Yes, but are you Protestant Jewish or Catholic Jewish". I know things are still not perfect out there, but I hope we have moved on from that point; ironically, considering his presence in the news today, Tony Blair can take a bow for that achievement. *

* Although Mo Mowlam can take the credit, rightly.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 1:06 pm

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... .122555660

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 1:20 pm

Fings wot I learnt today. Blair is a warlord, Blair is a Tory, Blair is a Marxist murderer, the SNP are taking over the world, Nicola Sturgeon is God.

Time for sanity, out to garden.

29 more days of **** from the right, Liberals and ultra left to cope with, not sure mental health and blood pressure can cope with it.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 1:33 pm

Well, any "Blairite" who still wants Ed to lose after what the man himself said today is a traitor. Simple as.

Seeing political hacks desperately scrabbling about for the tiniest bit of "evidence" that he doesn't back Miliband "really" has made it a cheering morning

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 1:33 pm

yahyah wrote:Fings wot I learnt today. Blair is a warlord, Blair is a Tory, Blair is a Marxist murderer, the SNP are taking over the world, Nicola Sturgeon is God.

Time for sanity, out to garden.

29 more days of **** from the right, Liberals and ultra left to cope with, not sure mental health and blood pressure can cope with it.

I apologise, Yahyah, for my part in that name-calling, sincerely. I'm sorry.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 07 Apr, 2015 1:35 pm

Has Cameron ever shared a stage to give a speech with John Major ?