Thursday 9th April 2015

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 12:18 pm

I think I will be having an early night....

QT panel tonight: Liz Truss, Douglas Alexander, Vince Cable, Caroline Lucas and Tim Stanley

Guests on the Agenda at 10.40: Ed Miliband, actor Brian Cox, actress and comedian Katy Brand and Newton Investment Management CEO Helena Morrissey.

This Week with Andrew Neil & Michael Portillo are Louise Mensch, Diane Abbott and Miranda Green. Includes discussion of Labour's tax plans and reports from Nicholas Watt and Pixie Lott.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 12:20 pm

From the YouGov briefing. Ignore the spin, look at the stats.

Asked in March about possible options for Trident when it reaches the end of its useful life, a quarter of the public (24%) were in favour of Britain giving up all nuclear weapons completely.
A higher proportion of Brits (31%) believe that when Trident comes to an end it should be replaced with an equally powerful nuclear missile system.
29% think Britain should retain a nuclear missile system, but it should be less powerful and cost less than replacing Trident.

Interesting. 31% want a like for like replacement.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 12:22 pm

pk1 wrote:I think I will be having an early night....

QT panel tonight: Liz Truss, Douglas Alexander, Vince Cable, Caroline Lucas and Tim Stanley

Guests on the Agenda at 10.40: Ed Miliband, actor Brian Cox, actress and comedian Katy Brand and Newton Investment Management CEO Helena Morrissey.

This Week with Andrew Neil & Michael Portillo are Louise Mensch, Diane Abbott and Miranda Green. Includes discussion of Labour's tax plans and reports from Nicholas Watt and Pixie Lott.

Good grief, This Week lineup has to be the worst ever.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 12:51 pm

Ian ‏@Mancman10 2 mins2 minutes ago
Latest 7 polls:
Sur:LAB 33 CON 31
Opin:LAB 33 CON 33
YG:CON 34 LAB 33
Pop:LAB 33 CON 31
YG:LAB 35 CON 33
YG:LAB 35 CON 34
TNS: LAB 33 CON 30

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 12:51 pm

pk1 wrote:I think I will be having an early night....

QT panel tonight: Liz Truss, Douglas Alexander, Vince Cable, Caroline Lucas and Tim Stanley

Guests on the Agenda at 10.40: Ed Miliband, actor Brian Cox, actress and comedian Katy Brand and Newton Investment Management CEO Helena Morrissey.

This Week with Andrew Neil & Michael Portillo are Louise Mensch, Diane Abbott and Miranda Green. Includes discussion of Labour's tax plans and reports from Nicholas Watt and Pixie Lott.

The Agenda could be a tricky one, with Brian Cox's recent switch from Labour to the SNP; he absolutely destroyed Starkey a few years back on QT, if he is in full on 45er mode it won't be pretty.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 12:54 pm

As 1983 proves there are no votes in offering to give up nukes unilaterally.

As if there was a sensible, fair debate about it, or as if the tories weren't shrieking about Labour 'being soft on defence', and ratcheting up the non-existent threat from the Soviet Union. I agree it is not a vote winner, it is not important to most people, but it is not a vote loser either. If we had a fair and honest debate about it, we would know for sure what people think about it. Perhaps that is what we should try?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 12:57 pm

Jane East ‏@Jane_East4CV 29s30 seconds ago
& remember @dryad13 @BBCPolitics the shambolic £100 million U-turn over aircraft carrier jets http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18008171" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … #ToryChaosAndConfusion

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 12:57 pm

There is further on the UKIP porn star but posted on Twitter by EDL, so I'm not going to re-tweet or give links...
His FaceBook page is mentioned and there are supposedly more revelations about other Kippers due soon. Mind you. All you need is to put a Kipper in front of a regular audience and the cracks are all too obvious.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:03 pm

StephenDolan wrote:From the BBC.
'SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has said her party will not agree any formal power-sharing deal with Labour unless Ed Miliband drops plans to renew the Trident nuclear deterrent.

Appearing in Midlothian following last night's leaders' debate, Ms Sturgeon made clear that this would include a confidence and supply agreement as well as a coalition.

She told BBC Scotland the SNP could still work with a minority Labour government on an issue-by-issue basis but would not vote for anything that supported Trident renewal.

Asked specifically if this would mean voting down a Queen's speech, she declined to confirm that it would.'

Does a Trident funding decision have to be part of the Queens Speech?

I thought she'd ruled out a formal coalition....

Nov 16 2014:

NEW SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon has warned removing Trident from Scottish waters would be a condition of propping up Labour at Westminster next May.
http://www.express.co.uk/scotland/53625 ... bour-power

Mar 6 2015:

Scottish first minister says party’s support for minority Labour government would not be conditional on Ed Miliband scrapping nuclear missile system
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ion-labour

Apr 9 2015:

It is often asked of me: is Trident a red line? Well you better believe that Trident is a red line.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 63689.html

May 8 2015:
Who knows? (One can only hope we never find out).

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:08 pm

Just seen a poll asking whether accusing Ed of stabbing brother Dave in the back to score political points is acceptable.
62% said it's not acceptable. Only 12 % said it was.

23 % said not bothered either way. I take it those are non-voters.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:12 pm

12% is a dismal failure even in terms of a "core vote" strategy - impressive from Fallon there

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:14 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 1 min1 minute ago
Boost for LAB from TNS

LAB 33% (+1)
CON 30% (-3)
LD 8% (0)
UKIP 19% (+3)
GREEN 4% (-1)

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:16 pm

Another nothing-to-see-here reply from BBC re my complain that Radio new is biased in that the presenters take the tory morning press hand out and use it as "fact"

Thank you for contacting us about BBC News on Radio 5 Live.
I understand you have concerns with BBC political reports and I have noted that you feel the coverage displays a bias in favour of the Conservative Party.
Whilst I can appreciate your concerns, individual reports may give more time to one particular party, but we regularly report on all of the main political parties. Not every television or radio piece can include all parties, but this does not constitute bias. Editors are charged to ensure that over a reasonable period they reflect the range of significant views, opinions and trends in their subject area.
The BBC does not seek to denigrate any political view, or to promote any view. It seeks rather to identify all significant views, and to test them rigorously and fairly on behalf of the audience. Senior editorial staff, the Executive Committee and the BBC Trust keep a close watch on programmes to ensure that standards of impartiality are maintained.
I am grateful that you have taken the time to contact us. Please be assured that I have included your complaint on our audience feedback report which is sent to news editors, programme producers and senior management each morning. These reports are among the most widely read sources of feedback in the BBC and ensures that your complaint has been seen by the right people quickly. This helps inform their decisions about current and future programmes.
Thanks again for getting in touch.

Kind regards
Jannine Matthews

BBC Complaints

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:19 pm

Falkland Islands retweeted

Kay Burley ‏@KayBurley 44 mins44 minutes ago
Argentina Ambassador summoned to Foreign Office

Oooh are we about to have a 'look a pink van/squirrel' moment?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:21 pm

politics.co.uk ‏@Politics_co_uk 9 mins9 minutes ago

New poll finds 77% support scrapping non-dom tax status. http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/04/ ... our-policy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:29 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Just seen a poll asking whether accusing Ed of stabbing brother Dave in the back to score political points is acceptable.
62% said it's not acceptable. Only 12 % said it was.

23 % said not bothered either way. I take it those are non-voters.

Suspect that is the yougov Daily, which is now running 2 - 3 polls per day.

This is what it's saying now:

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:31 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Falkland Islands retweeted

Kay Burley ‏@KayBurley 44 mins44 minutes ago
Argentina Ambassador summoned to Foreign Office
Oooh are we about to have a 'look a pink van/squirrel' moment?

Falklands row blows up on 33rd anniversary: Argentine ambassador ordered to Foreign Office
ARGENTINA’S ambassador in London has been summoned to the Foreign Office by defence secretary Philip Hammond to explain the aggressive actions of his president.
By Paul Baldwin
PUBLISHED: 12:58, Thu, Apr 9, 2015 | UPDATED: 13:16, Thu, Apr 9, 2015

The diplomatic row emerged last night on the 33rd anniversary of the Falkland Islands conflict when the Argentine president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner reportedly threatened oil and gas firms with prosecution if they began drilling in the waters around the Falklands.

More follows... (Express)

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/569341 ... ign-Office

Sky (as you intimated) and the ITV are also covering this Conservative desperation-generated story.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:32 pm

Trident, SNP & Labour.

This is the whole point of not having a full coalition when parties stand on separate manifestos.

The SNP will never vote to retain Trident (in Scotland anyway). But if Labour and SNP enter into a confidence and supply arrangement that's fine. There would be no expectation that the SNP would vote vwith Labour on every issue. Simple.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:34 pm

PorFavor wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Falkland Islands retweeted

Kay Burley ‏@KayBurley 44 mins44 minutes ago
Argentina Ambassador summoned to Foreign Office
Oooh are we about to have a 'look a pink van/squirrel' moment?

Falklands row blows up on 33rd anniversary: Argentine ambassador ordered to Foreign Office
ARGENTINA’S ambassador in London has been summoned to the Foreign Office by defence secretary Philip Hammond to explain the aggressive actions of his president.
By Paul Baldwin
PUBLISHED: 12:58, Thu, Apr 9, 2015 | UPDATED: 13:16, Thu, Apr 9, 2015

The diplomatic row emerged last night on the 33rd anniversary of the Falkland Islands conflict when the Argentine president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner reportedly threatened oil and gas firms with prosecution if they began drilling in the waters around the Falklands.

More follows... (Express)
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/569341 ... ign-Office

Sky (as you intimated) and ITV are also covering this Conservative desperation-generated story.

Edited to remove a "the"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:43 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:On a personal, feeling sorry for myself note, why is it you can go through winter without catching a cold, but first sign of the sun you catch a stinker.

Can't answer that scientifically letsskip - but it rings true. I know I always find the change of season a bit unsettling. For me it's headaches and rhinitis from tree pollen. Hope you get over it quickly - look after yourself. (I could say - don't worry we've only got two more days of good weather but that sounds awful ...).

Local honey - find a jar of honey created by bees as close to your home as possible. Take a couple spoonfuls daily - more if you like honey. I do.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:46 pm

yahyah wrote:Morning, yet another beautiful morning, can't believe it.

[cJA edit of post]

& hope you feel better soon LetsSkip.

I asked for some California weather to keep our spirits up.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:51 pm

Martin Rowson @MartinRowson
· 3h 3 hours ago
By the way, Iain Duncan Smith is 61 today. Wonder how old the demon possessing him is?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:51 pm

Labour launches attack on PM’s election guru Lynton Crosby over tax affairs

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 64743.html

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:52 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Trident, SNP & Labour.

This is the whole point of not having a full coalition when parties stand on separate manifestos.

The SNP will never vote to retain Trident (in Scotland anyway). But if Labour and SNP enter into a confidence and supply arrangement that's fine. There would be no expectation that the SNP would vote vwith Labour on every issue. Simple.

Which is what Sturgeon's said.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ion-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:54 pm

Sky News retweeted
Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 2m2 minutes ago
French authorities have launched a formal criminal investigation into Swiss banking arm of #HSBC

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:58 pm

ITV News
Ed Miliband joins The Agenda's live debate tonight
Labour leader Ed Miliband will delve into another live TV debate tonight on ITV's The Agenda, joining actor Brian Cox, actress and comedian Katy Brand and Helena Morrissey, the CEO of Newton Invest...
View this content on itvnews's website
View on web

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:58 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Labour launches attack on PM’s election guru Lynton Crosby over tax affairs

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 64743.html

From the Standard article -

His[Lynton Crosby's] spokesman gave a statement saying: “Any claim, or attempt to claim, Mr Crosby has attempted to reduce his tax liability in the UK is malicious and libellous and will be treated as such.” (Standard)

Where have we heard that before?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 1:58 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Just seen a poll asking whether accusing Ed of stabbing brother Dave in the back to score political points is acceptable.
62% said it's not acceptable. Only 12 % said it was.

23 % said not bothered either way. I take it those are non-voters.

~~Are you serious?~~
Apologies - I'd initially read the polling question differently.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:02 pm

Alastair Campbell has an excellent article about the panic in the Tory ranks:

http://www.alastaircampbell.org/blog/20 ... new-times/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fallon is not unintelligent, and I suspect he didn’t sleep terribly well after being briefed by Crosby to deliver this barrel-load of bollocks. It was not really him speaking. It was panic. And it wasn’t Fallon’s panic speaking. It was Crosby’s and Cameron’s.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:02 pm

Fracking wastewater dumped in manchester canal
Posted on July 5, 2014 by Andrew Gallagher

MP Kate Green has demanded to know why fracking waste water was dumped in Manchester Canal.

http://www.frackaware.com/wordpress/?p=2128" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:05 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Fracking wastewater dumped in manchester canal
Posted on July 5, 2014 by Andrew Gallagher

MP Kate Green has demanded to know why fracking waste water was dumped in Manchester Canal.

http://www.frackaware.com/wordpress/?p=2128" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hadn't realised hydraulic fracturing had been given the go-ahead. Nothing surprises me any more. I'm going to have another spoon of honey.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:05 pm

Also from Alastair Campbell's twitter feed:

: campbell.jpg (65.3 KiB) Viewed 5371 times

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:19 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
danesclose wrote:Alastair Campbell has an excellent article about the panic in the Tory ranks:

http://www.alastaircampbell.org/blog/20 ... new-times/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fallon is not unintelligent, and I suspect he didn’t sleep terribly well after being briefed by Crosby to deliver this barrel-load of bollocks. It was not really him speaking. It was panic. And it wasn’t Fallon’s panic speaking. It was Crosby’s and Cameron’s.
Knowing Fallon a little as I do, I think this is utter bollocks. Fallon is one of those politicians who calculates every word he says on the basis of the narrow political advantage it can gain, including words he knows to be untrue or damaging even to people who count him as friends (I've seen examples of both). Unintelligent? No. Just utterly lacking in any sort of moral scruple.

Tell us more, if you can.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:20 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
danesclose wrote:Alastair Campbell has an excellent article about the panic in the Tory ranks:

http://www.alastaircampbell.org/blog/20 ... new-times/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fallon is not unintelligent, and I suspect he didn’t sleep terribly well after being briefed by Crosby to deliver this barrel-load of bollocks. It was not really him speaking. It was panic. And it wasn’t Fallon’s panic speaking. It was Crosby’s and Cameron’s.
Knowing Fallon a little as I do, I think this is utter bollocks. Fallon is one of those politicians who calculates every word he says on the basis of the narrow political advantage it can gain, including words he knows to be untrue or damaging even to people who count him as friends (I've seen examples of both). Unintelligent? No. Just utterly lacking in any sort of moral scruple.

Interesting - thank you. In his defence, I must say that he was an absolutely first class Minister for Portsmouth. I really don't know how we'd have managed without him.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:21 pm

PorFavor wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Labour launches attack on PM’s election guru Lynton Crosby over tax affairs

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 64743.html
From the Standard article -

His[Lynton Crosby's] spokesman gave a statement saying: “Any claim, or attempt to claim, Mr Crosby has attempted to reduce his tax liability in the UK is malicious and libellous and will be treated as such.” (Standard)
Where have we heard that before?

I had the exact same thought

What is it with Cons - they don't seem to understand that for an allegation to be libellous, it needs to be an allegation of illegality which, as we all know, tax avoidance is not !

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:22 pm

NHS hospital waiting time figures worst in seven years

http://gu.com/p/47c8y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seven years.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:29 pm

Bollocks from Johnson:

''Secretary of State for Defence is entitled to use language and a metaphor that is arresting, to capture peoples attention''

Tosser.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:31 pm

StephenDolan wrote:NHS hospital waiting time figures worst in seven years

http://gu.com/p/47c8y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seven years.

I get it.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:32 pm

citizenJA wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:NHS hospital waiting time figures worst in seven years

http://gu.com/p/47c8y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seven years.
I get it.

But will the BBC?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:34 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Martin Rowson @MartinRowson
· 3h 3 hours ago
By the way, Iain Duncan Smith is 61 today. Wonder how old the demon possessing him is?

Roughly first millenium BC http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/hi ... azuzu.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My initial thoughts, Robert, were that it were much too good looking for IDS and then...

Amulets of Pazuzu like this were therefore placed in dwellings, attached to bedroom furniture.

... made me realise why it was he so despised bedrooms.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:38 pm

Cameron plays at being good at it. He never is good at it.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... n-miliband" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

apologies - edited to add I refer to the image leading the story

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:39 pm

And of course Fallon was one of the expenses cheats...But we won't mention that.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:41 pm

oh christ - speaking of playing...

http://i.guim.co.uk/media/w-620/h--/q-9 ... 9/1000.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

George Osborne works under a car being serviced at Hawkins garage, St Austell …

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:44 pm

Letter in the Wandsworth Guardian:

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:51 pm

Margaret Thatcher tax shock: £12m mansion where she saw out her days registered in TAX HAVEN

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ma ... 2m-2866929

Very peculiar that at the time, little was said about this.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:58 pm

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utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 2:59 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Margaret Thatcher tax shock: £12m mansion where she saw out her days registered in TAX HAVEN

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ma ... 2m-2866929
Very peculiar that at the time, little was said about this.

What time are you referring to, ohsocynical? The article you link is dated Nov. 2013, although I thought it was generally known earlier.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 3:03 pm

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ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 3:03 pm

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PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 09 Apr, 2015 3:11 pm

Ukip says it would scrap VAT on tampons

Er - zero rate them? Would be just a tiny bit less disruptive, I suggest.