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My son, my second child was born in '66. I had a personal midwife, Nurse Hall, from the time I tested positive. I saw her at the clinic. I had the choice to have him in hospital or at home. She paid a couple of home visits to make sure it was suitable to have him at home. She was there, as was the doctor while I was in Labour, they delivered him, and then she came in every day for ten days - twice a day for the first three days - after he was born.
In that instance, they were the good old days.
Had it been your MP, ohso, would you have expected a breakdown of the costs?
RogerOThornhill wrote:I've been an Orient supporter since 1974 although there have been seasons a couple of decades ago when I hardly went. About 1999 I was so bogged down with work and my degree (library took precedence on Saturdays) that I didn't go for 4 years...until my son decided he wanted to go having seen all my old programmes around. Up until he moved away he'd been a season ticket holder and hardly missed a match
Anyway...come to him doing sports at secondary schools and they get asked who they support...Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal....Leyton Orient. And of course he was the only kid who actually went to games. Got a lot of kudos with the teacher over that.
Yep, with you all the way with Bury FC foremost in my mind. That's the local team (although you could include the Glazer loathing FC United who shared Gigg Lane for a few seasons and drew bigger gates than Bury, I'm told) and that's who should be the focus, not teams who are successful and that's it. What does that bring to football other than fairweather supporters? Just don't get it. For the record: I supported (listlessly) City when they were in Division 3. I do wonder how many United fans would stick around if that fate befell their team and they found themselves in the now Division One?
"A Pennsylvania judge has been convicted of selling children into prison for cash. The former judge, 61-year old Mark Ciavarella Jr, was sentenced to 30 years for taking money under the table from a developer and jailing thousands of adults and juveniles, some as young as ten. Ciavarella made more than a million dollars selling people into incarceration."
ErnstRemarx wrote:... All the big clubs in the Prem, La Liga and elsewhere are equally guilty and it looks to me like the hijacking of football by big business in the worst possible way. It will not end well for anyone, least of all genuine fans.
It's not just big business, Ernst, but our celebrity culture too. For example when I was a PTA member for my lads' primary school, a mate and fellow member got some land behind the school for a sports field and nature area. Its opening day was discussed during one of the meetings and a couple of the Mums suggested we get Lineker or Gazza; I suggested the local football club. They were literally 100yds or so away as the crow flies and had also won the FA Vase that year, but they decided to pursue the stars.
At the next meeting it was reported that they wanted 4 grand or something, maybe 2 I don't remember, so they decided to approach the local club, albeit unimportant I didn't get a mention in the minutes. Anyway they were great and wanted nothing and even provided sports equipment for good measure.
Well there you go. It's communitarianism that will see us through, and bollocks to the elites - and the Prem is the financial elite, let's face it. They have no reason to talk to people like you and me, and never will until brought to heel. I hope that happens,if only for the future of football in the UK, which strikes me as a metaphor for what the UK overall has become.
frightful_oik wrote:I take no interest in the Prem. Championship's a much better league because it's so competitive. Anyone can beat anyone else. We've got relegated Blackpool on Tuesday but am I confident? Am I 'eck as like.
frightful_oik wrote:I take no interest in the Prem. Championship's a much better league because it's so competitive. Anyone can beat anyone else. We've got relegated Blackpool on Tuesday but am I confident? Am I 'eck as like.
Your team is....?
the mighty Rams, who robbed Brentford of 2 points on Saturday.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
frightful_oik wrote:I take no interest in the Prem. Championship's a much better league because it's so competitive. Anyone can beat anyone else. We've got relegated Blackpool on Tuesday but am I confident? Am I 'eck as like.
Your team is....?
Cheers for your reply, Ernst, but I think I can answer this one for you if frightful's away at the moment. Besides he wasn't completely honest as I'm guessing he was interested in the Prem recently. If he's a Ram, that is. 'And for the record I was referring to Gresley Rovers. When they won the Conference they sold their best players to build a stadium; they couldn't get promoted with the one they had. Unfortunately the stadium never did get built and they went down, never to resurface again.
Enough footie for one day, except to say that I'm a Liverpool fan, but my lads supported ManU. Imagine my discomfort when I used to take a minibus of lads to the wrong end of the East Lancs Road..
Edit: it seems frightful_oik was still about, after all.
frightful_oik wrote:I take no interest in the Prem. Championship's a much better league because it's so competitive. Anyone can beat anyone else. We've got relegated Blackpool on Tuesday but am I confident? Am I 'eck as like.
Your team is....?
Cheers for your reply, Ernst, but I think I can answer this one for you if frightful's away at the moment. Besides he wasn't completely honest as I'm guessing he was interested in the Prem recently. If he's a Ram, that is. 'And for the record I was referring to Gresley Rovers. When they won the Conference they sold their best players to build a stadium; they couldn't get promoted with the one they had. Unfortunately the stadium never did get built and they went down, never to resurface again.
Enough footie for one day, except to say that I'm a Liverpool fan, but my lads supported ManU. Imagine my discomfort when I used to take a minibus of lads to the wrong end of the East Lancs Road..
Edit: it seems frightful_oik was still about, after all.
Still up. Listening to the Westminster Hour shortly.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
frightful_oik wrote:I take no interest in the Prem. Championship's a much better league because it's so competitive. Anyone can beat anyone else. We've got relegated Blackpool on Tuesday but am I confident? Am I 'eck as like.
Your team is....?
the mighty Rams, who robbed Brentford of 2 points on Saturday.
Derby! Many great memories in there - may there be many more before you give up watching them
My son, my second child was born in '66. I had a personal midwife, Nurse Hall, from the time I tested positive. I saw her at the clinic. I had the choice to have him in hospital or at home. She paid a couple of home visits to make sure it was suitable to have him at home. She was there, as was the doctor while I was in Labour, they delivered him, and then she came in every day for ten days - twice a day for the first three days - after he was born.
In that instance, they were the good old days.
Had it been your MP, ohso, would you have expected a breakdown of the costs?
Edit: the doctor, that is.
No. The NHS just was and you never felt you were being a drain on society, or what it was costing. Children's health in particular was well taken care of via school clinic.
I went to the States in 69 and remember being appalled at seeing children being taken to a chiropractor because they couldn't afford a doctor. Children screaming with toothache, but having to put up with it until enough money was saved for a dentist. And children being hospitalised with whooping cough, because they hadn't been vaccinated.
Some of them had health insurance via their job, but sometimes it wasn't very good, or if the guy had changed jobs, his family weren't covered for the first six months.
I couldn't get home quick enough!
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Yeah that's cool. If Wayne has to forego a grand a week of his £100.000 per week or whatever it is, that seems like a good deal to me. Burnham's a killer Everton fan, and has spoken up at every opportunity to get justice for the Liverpool fans betrayed at Hillsborough, to the extent that he got a standing ovation from Pool fans and friends (and that's no mean feat as a Toffees fan) for his work in badgering the government into launching the judicial enquiry into Hillsborough.
Wee Lego Krankie wrote:It is surely revealing that, for all the famed animosity between two men who – we are told – were barely on speaking terms for much of the time they were next-door neighbours in Downing Street, they can still find common cause to attack the SNP. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nic ... 71654.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yeah - it reveals that they both think nationalism is a crock of shite.
RogerOThornhill wrote:I've been an Orient supporter since 1974 although there have been seasons a couple of decades ago when I hardly went. About 1999 I was so bogged down with work and my degree (library took precedence on Saturdays) that I didn't go for 4 years...until my son decided he wanted to go having seen all my old programmes around. Up until he moved away he'd been a season ticket holder and hardly missed a match
Anyway...come to him doing sports at secondary schools and they get asked who they support...Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal....Leyton Orient. And of course he was the only kid who actually went to games. Got a lot of kudos with the teacher over that.
Yep, with you all the way with Bury FC foremost in my mind. That's the local team (although you could include the Glazer loathing FC United who shared Gigg Lane for a few seasons and drew bigger gates than Bury, I'm told) and that's who should be the focus, not teams who are successful and that's it. What does that bring to football other than fairweather supporters? Just don't get it. For the record: I supported (listlessly) City when they were in Division 3. I do wonder how many United fans would stick around if that fate befell their team and they found themselves in the now Division One?
.
Why is it only ever Utd that are accused of having glory hunting fans ? Some of us can remember the days before Sir Alex transformed us into a winning team. There will be generations that have only ever known Utd to be successful.
I live close to the Amex stadium but since the Seagulls sold the Withdean, I haven't gone to one of their games whereas I know the route to Old Trafford by heart.
If anyone wants a chuckle, the latest piece of cobblers by D'Ancona is up on the Graun (I notice it lasted less than 3hrs before comments were closed).
ErnstRemarx wrote:Had an amusing incident occur yesterday. Myself and Andrew (this year's local candidate) have decided to campaign for extra pedestrian crossings on the main road through the ward, it being a bugger to cross much of the time, particularly peak hours - not much fun if you're taking the kids to school. To this end we've been door knocking, but MsRemarx suggested we set up the ol' trestle table outside the Co-op at the top of the village and have people come to sign it - which they duly did. We did pretty well in the time we were there - although one particular idiot refused to sign as they were 'unnecessary', just prior to pressing the button to activate the pelican crossing behind her and scuttling across the road when the lights went to red. There's some very odd people about.
Any road, it was blowing a gale and bloody freezing, and MsRemarx had just dumped the WeeBundle on me as she was off leafletting elsewhere in her ward. I realised that having the WB standing around in the cold wan't a great idea, and Andrew then spotted a local asian Tory councillor whip across the road and into the wine bar. Odd, we thought, and in view of the weather decided to drop in there for a pint to see what was occurrin'.
It was like a vortex of darkness - three or four Tory councillors, the local MP (his skin is still grey), two ex Tory councillors (one of whom I beat in 2012 and another who lost his seat last year because of my protege's campaign in my ward) and a whole bunch of 'helpers', not one of whom looked under 60. Unintimidated, me and Andrew and the WB propped ourselves up at the bar (Guinness and San Miguel, if you must know) and enjoyed their discomfiture at our presence. They all stood very self consciously eating their little plates of sandwiches and drinking teas and coffees.
This all came to a screaming halt when the coffee machine behind the bar suddenly went BANG! in a very big way, complete with white flash and cloud of smoke. "No more coffees" said the girl behind the bar. I call that fate. Anyhow, it was time to drop Andrew in town (Ed Balls was around) so we finished our beers and I wished the assembled Tories a good branch meeting (subtle, I thought) and left.
Turns out they'd been out with Chris Grayling in my ward - what a bloody choice. If I find out where they were, I'll be out there this week knocking on doors and reminding people that it's because of him that people's chances of getting justice are pretty minimal and very expensive. Still, I suppose I should be flattered that they shipped him in....
But what did the Wee Bundle have?
Here's power to your elbow for the crossings campaign and next week's post-Grayling door-knocking
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
Yeah that's cool. If Wayne has to forego a grand a week of his £100.000 per week or whatever it is, that seems like a good deal to me. Burnham's a killer Everton fan, and has spoken up at every opportunity to get justice for the Liverpool fans betrayed at Hillsborough, to the extent that he got a standing ovation from Pool fans and friends (and that's no mean feat as a Toffees fan) for his work in badgering the government into launching the judicial enquiry into Hillsborough.
He will make that stick, I think.
Everton football club and their fans were predominantly excellent after Hillsborough, they could see what a cover-up and blame game had been established straight afterwards.
Anyway, onto lighter matters. I've just watched the Marr / Osborne clip, twas most enjoyable. Now if only there's a softening in the support of the SNP from 2010 Labour voters and a couple of percent lead in England and Wales. Crosses fingers and toes.
I don't really feel the right to complain about it but can we not keep the content of the politics section as just politics please?
I tend to skim past relevant posts while avoiding the ones that aren't political which I know frustrates quite a few on here when their points are missed.
Mind you, it's late and I'm probably grumpy. As you were.
diGriz wrote:I don't really feel the right to complain about it but can we not keep the content of the politics section as just politics please?
I tend to skim past relevant posts while avoiding the ones that aren't political which I know frustrates quite a few on here when their points are missed.
Mind you, it's late and I'm probably grumpy. As you were.
No, that is a fair point, and even as a contented Red Mancunian, I'm happy to agree it's been a bit OTT this afternoon.
But I do think that considerations of the effect the Premiership has had as a cultural phenomenon, and of course Hillsborough, are appropriate subjects for this forum.
First thought - I wish you had not gone that way, do it, but no need to make it centre.
People need more hope (just near Landslide)
Having read it I think it is the right thing to do.
The Tory party have really thrown away their reputation for sound finance. Labour can grab that, and show how it will deliver policies for the majority of the country not just the top 2%.
No sensible party at this time should be increasing the deficit, it has to come down the argument is how do you do that - trickle down, or bottom up led recovery.
That is a very slick well presented document, that Mirror front page isn't too shabby either.
First thought - I wish you had not gone that way, do it, but no need to make it centre.
People need more hope (just near Landslide)
Having read it I think it is the right thing to do.
The Tory party have really thrown away their reputation for sound finance. Labour can grab that, and show how it will deliver policies for the majority of the country not just the top 2%.
No sensible party at this time should be increasing the deficit, it has to come down the argument is how do you do that - trickle down, or bottom up led recovery.
That is a very slick well presented document, that Mirror front page isn't too shabby either.
Well the central manifesto message isn't one that pulls at the heart strings but I can understand why they've done it. The Tories and Lib Dems were going to be all over whatever they wrote with their chaos, don't trust them with the car keys again stuff. This - hugely aided by the Tories own rash splurging without clear funding bases - makes it very hard for them to do that. The SNP, Plaid and Greens are going to carry on what they've been saying about Labour being a party of austerity regardless of what's in the manifesto - that's their argument and they'll stick to it.
rebeccariots2 wrote:Well the central manifesto message isn't one that pulls at the heart strings but I can understand why they've done it. The Tories and Lib Dems were going to be all over whatever they wrote with their chaos, don't trust them with the car keys again stuff. This - hugely aided by the Tories own rash splurging without clear funding bases - makes it very hard for them to do that. The SNP, Plaid and Greens are going to carry on what they've been saying about Labour being a party of austerity regardless of what's in the manifesto - that's their argument and they'll stick to it.
It's quite unexpected, what the tories hope to do with the extra day to tweak their manifesto in reply will be interesting. On a flattened pack of complimentary fags most like.
First thought - I wish you had not gone that way, do it, but no need to make it centre.
People need more hope (just near Landslide)
Having read it I think it is the right thing to do.
The Tory party have really thrown away their reputation for sound finance. Labour can grab that, and show how it will deliver policies for the majority of the country not just the top 2%.
No sensible party at this time should be increasing the deficit, it has to come down the argument is how do you do that - trickle down, or bottom up led recovery.
That is a very slick well presented document, that Mirror front page isn't too shabby either.
If you are Osborne right now you are looking at a train wreck. Two weeks in this is the state of play:
- Miliband's ratings are going up.
- Tory party has re-toxified itself.
- Your party is defending the tax perks of the super rich.
- You have pissed away your reputation for economic competence by throwing around unfunded spending promises and tax cuts.
- Labour just presented a properly costed manifesto, yours won't be; people will notice.
Beth Rigby @BethRigby 8m8 minutes ago
Miliband's aides say cutting the deficit in the next parliament non-negotiable - in effect a red line in any deal party may strike with SNP
rebeccariots2 wrote:Well the central manifesto message isn't one that pulls at the heart strings but I can understand why they've done it. The Tories and Lib Dems were going to be all over whatever they wrote with their chaos, don't trust them with the car keys again stuff. This - hugely aided by the Tories own rash splurging without clear funding bases - makes it very hard for them to do that. The SNP, Plaid and Greens are going to carry on what they've been saying about Labour being a party of austerity regardless of what's in the manifesto - that's their argument and they'll stick to it.
It's quite unexpected, what the tories hope to do with the extra day to tweak their manifesto in reply will be interesting. On a flattened pack of complimentary fags most like.
Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 60m 60 minutes ago
Labour’s manifesto was finished on Thursday. Tories next 3 days making unfunded spending commitments. I bet Labour HQ were cock-a-hoop
The more I think about this Labour manifesto central budget responsibility - I think it's pretty audacious (in a good way) - claiming the very ground that the Tories and most of the media never ever thought they would dare to. Bold.
diGriz wrote:Sky Press Preview, Drip Girl left on chairs in hospital for five hours in tomorrow's Sun.
Nothing to link yet but it's damning.
[Edit] Due to no free beds, the woman on a drip-feed is draped over three chairs (seemingly in a waiting room) at Ashya hospital.
Is it damning though, or Sun sensationalism?
I recommend extreme caution.
I'd say a photo of a sick woman on a drip draped uncomfortably over three chairs (with arm rests) is more damning than a rumour about drinking from vases.
TechnicalEphemera wrote:Yep that Man U result, I suspect most of London will be hungover tomorrow.
Heard 'em all before, mate. And its usually "Surrey", btw
This won't be believed, but it's true. In the late 90s, I worked in Macclesfield, which some posters will know is on the Manchester - London Euston line, and occasionally I'd go home on the train when it was packed with footie fans heading north for a match. On one particular day, I caught a train to Piccadilly teeming with southern chappies all decked out with red and white going to watch Arsenal take on United at OT. I couldn't tell them all apart. That really, really would not happen with City, but I think it prompts a much deeper conversation about the commiditisation of football teams unrelated to physical proximity.
I've no issues with anyone being a fan of any team, but really? Being Londoners/southerners in such numbers and following Manchester United? Do people really not think about what that looks like, and what the Prem has now become? I recall reading that there are more United fans in Singapore than in the UK. That just doesn't seem healthy to me, and the idea that a club can be a 'brand' seems very wrong to me - and it doesn't just cover United. All the big clubs in the Prem, La Liga and elsewhere are equally guilty and it looks to me like the hijacking of football by big business in the worst possible way. It will not end well for anyone, least of all genuine fans.
For a long time (and probably even now) Man U were the most supported football team in Tehran – it was way over 60% of all Iranian football fans there had them as their first team and it's not as if they're lacking in good teams there. There was a joke that if Man U went to play a friendly against Esteghlal at the Azidi Stadium, there'd be no-one at the Home end, the stadium would tip up on end for weight of the Man U supporters, and Esteghlal would ask to swap shirts before kick-off...
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
I think the teams should have stuck to their promise that they would invest that money. Ideally you'd want to do it by public campaigns – 'shaming' them into doing it isn't quite the right words but their failure to keep their word cannot be good for their reputations. Making it a legal obligation might not be easy – can you do it retrospectively or would it have to be worked into the conditions for the next round of bidding, for example – but a verbal contract is still a contract.
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
Crikey. Nicholas Anagram very, very nearly delivered a decent article about Labour. Sadly the strain was too much and he caved in on the very last little paragraph...
Labour have come up with some fabulous hand-drawn posters (two designs) and are selling them as small window posters, large wall posters, or both, at £6, £18, or £20, respectively for the pairs. I've just bought a pair of the small ones and here's the link: https://donation.labour.org.uk/w/posters
Can't wait to put them up in my windows – although that'll mean cleaning the buggers first. Windows, that is. I'm sure the posters will be clean on arrival
Oh, those are suggested minimum donations – naturally. The posters are beautiful – only sorry I can't stretch to the big versions:
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
LadyCentauria wrote:Labour have come up with some fabulous hand-drawn posters (two designs) and are selling them as small window posters, large wall posters, or both, at £6, £18, or £20, respectively for the pairs. I've just bought a pair of the small ones and here's the link: https://donation.labour.org.uk/w/posters
Can't wait to put them up in my windows – although that'll mean cleaning the buggers first. Windows, that is. I'm sure the posters will be clean on arrival
Oh, those are suggested minimum donations – naturally. The posters are beautiful – only sorry I can't stretch to the big versions:
We went for the window posters too,
Don't know how anyone can say Labour are anti-business,
Someone's definitely got a gift for marketing.