Sat 11 and Sun 12 April

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 6:19 am

miliband wrote:"Scotland can partner up with London, Liverpool and Cardiff in voting Labour and kicking out the Tories. "The Tories can't stop that in Scotland and the only people who can save the Tories in Scotland are the SNP.

"It would be a sad irony if the only people that stood in the way of getting rid of a Tory Government were SNP MPs in Scotland.
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/mili ... .122879118" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Just like it was when they ushered Thatcher in in the first place.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 6:46 am

"Scotland's voice at Westminster has always been very quiet, in fact it's been completely muted because the strings have been pulled by UK Labour," said Carol Monaghan, an Scottish National Party (SNP) candidate in Glasgow.http://news.yahoo.com/nationalist-lands ... NlYwNzcg--" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Blair
Brown
Cameron (or at least his dad was)
Gove
ID 'kin S

So quiet you can hardly hear them

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 6:50 am

Poor oppressed Scotland's voice "very quiet" at Westminster as Blair, Brown, (Cameron), Gove and IDS hardly say a word

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 7:00 am

Ms Sturgeon called Labour’s analysis “wrong” and accused them of repeating the same “smears and fears” that were used against the case for independence during last year’s referendum. She said the only cuts on the horizon were Tory ones “that Labour are backing.”http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68323.html

Since when oil prices have tanked.

I get the impression that in the end, nationalists of all types, basically just hate their own country.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 7:01 am

will shut up now

thanks for listening.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 7:01 am

oh yeah:

'Morning.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 7:20 am

Morning TC. Something bugging you this morning?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 7:25 am

Oh! Does it show?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 7:28 am

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 7:39 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Ms Sturgeon called Labour’s analysis “wrong” and accused them of repeating the same “smears and fears” that were used against the case for independence during last year’s referendum. She said the only cuts on the horizon were Tory ones “that Labour are backing.”http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68323.html
Since when oil prices have tanked.

I get the impression that in the end, nationalists of all types, basically just hate their own country.

Not so sure about that, but there is certainly a wilful blindness about this amongst some Scots. I challenged them yesterday, Over There, to answer the question Sturgeon pointedly ducked; given that even SNP ministers were acknowledging that funding gap, how were they going to deal with it? Inevitably most of the answers were (more or less) " ****off you Red Tory, what the **** does it have to do with you, can't wait until we are shot of you ***** " - so presumably that group are going to rely on their anger to keep them warm.

I did, eventually, get a couple of civil answers but even they were trying to ignore the realities. What is going n isn't scaremongering, it isn't smears and fears, it is simply the SNP being subjected to the kind of close scrutiny that Labour have been under for years; the difference now is that Ed Balls (whatever you think of him) has done his sums properly and can give answers that stand up to scrutiny, whereas Sturgeon is gambling everything on massive and virtually instant economic growth. Infuriating,

Off to work. Laters.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 7:52 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
"Scotland's voice at Westminster has always been very quiet, in fact it's been completely muted because the strings have been pulled by UK Labour," said Carol Monaghan, an Scottish National Party (SNP) candidate in Glasgow.http://news.yahoo.com/nationalist-lands ... NlYwNzcg--" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I must have dreamt all that devolution and creation of a Scottish government stuff that happened under UK Labour, not to mention all those Scottish ministers.

Truly it's the last days of the Raj...

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 7:55 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Ms Sturgeon called Labour’s analysis “wrong” and accused them of repeating the same “smears and fears” that were used against the case for independence during last year’s referendum. She said the only cuts on the horizon were Tory ones “that Labour are backing.”http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 68323.html
Since when oil prices have tanked.

I get the impression that in the end, nationalists of all types, basically just hate their own country.
Not so sure about that, but there is certainly a wilful blindness about this amongst some Scots. I challenged them yesterday, Over There, to answer the question Sturgeon pointedly ducked; given that even SNP ministers were acknowledging that funding gap, how were they going to deal with it? Inevitably most of the answers were (more or less) " ****off you Red Tory, what the **** does it have to do with you, can't wait until we are shot of you ***** " - so presumably that group are going to rely on their anger to keep them warm.

I did, eventually, get a couple of civil answers but even they were trying to ignore the realities. What is going n isn't scaremongering, it isn't smears and fears, it is simply the SNP being subjected to the kind of close scrutiny that Labour have been under for years; the difference now is that Ed Balls (whatever you think of him) has done his sums properly and can give answers that stand up to scrutiny, whereas Sturgeon is gambling everything on massive and virtually instant economic growth. Infuriating,

Off to work. Laters.

That's kind of what I mean though. When I say nationalist here I specifically mean the leaders of those movements, who seem to be more than prepared to effectively missell their offer. Like used-car salesmen only quite a bit worse. Am not sure used-car salesmen hold their "marks" in very high regard.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 8:00 am

Morning all.
Usual nonsense from Sturgeon I see,like it's the ref again.
If the Eds are lying and smearing and project fearing,why doesn't she simply offer her costed solutions to FFA?Balls was right there,the chancellor she would have if labour were in power,she could sit down and go over the figures with him.
She can't is why.Not without upsetting the nat apple cart.
Oh well.Puppy chewed up an armchair last night,must be a Friday night sort of thing.I was waiting till she was a little older before replacing the furniture,what to do?Maybe start taking her out again at 3 am?She's a bloody hooligan!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 8:04 am

Puppy much less of hooligan than SN bleeding P.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 8:11 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:will shut up now

thanks for listening.

Careful Tiny, you'll get a host of Nat online stalkers if you carry on like that.
(Am not entirely joking seeing the way some of them behave].

On such matters, Liberal handmaiden Caron Lindsay has been forced to make a weasel apology on trying to out someone in Scotland as a Labour supporter.

BTL of the original article she also tried to out a commenter on the thread as a Labour member saying she had searched back through [off-line] email exchanges she'd had with the person.
So much for Liberal moaning about the right to privacy !

Lindsay's had a lot of flak, even her apology seems to imply blame for Labour.
http://www.libdemvoice.org/resemblance- ... ent-347307" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 8:15 am

Here's something to cheer us up, according the the Indy Labour are on course to win over 300 seats, and will therefore be free to tell the SNP where to stick their Full Fiscal Autonomy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 69064.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 8:45 am

Tish wrote:Here's something to cheer us up, according the the Indy Labour are on course to win over 300 seats, and will therefore be free to tell the SNP where to stick their Full Fiscal Autonomy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 69064.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for this - says 48 SNP seats - the latest I saw was 53 to SNP/ 59.

I don't get it. I thought they just voted to stay in.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 8:47 am

Oops...Dawkins making an ass of himself again.

Richard Dawkins ✔ @RichardDawkins 9th April 2015
If ever there was a case for voting for individual rather than party, it's @MaajidLibDem in Hampstead & Kilburn. A truly moral & brave man.

Today the Mail has published film of 'feminist' Nawaz, allegedly drunk, allegedly wanting physical contact with a stripper, and there are calls for him to stand down as candidate in Ham & High.

The owner of the club says he passed on the CCTV film because he was fed up of Nawaz being a hypocrite in what he was spouting to the media.

http://5pillarsuk.com/2015/04/10/maajid ... nightclub/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's a strange alliance of UKIPers and more conservative Muslims rubbing their hands in glee, as well as anyone who delights in seeing Lib Dems outed in their hypocrisy.
Lib Dems seem to find it hard to shake off their image as the Perv Party.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 8:55 am

Morning all.

Hunt giving his usual slippery emollient guff interview. I think we're going to hear a lot from him in the next few weeks - he's the soft voiced equivalent of white noise and they've probably realised that's safer than the strident Gove and Fallons. The Radio 4 interviewer quoted back Osborne's words on the chaos of unfunded promises at him ... answer he had none.

James Tapsfield ‏@JamesTapsfield 4m4 minutes ago
Odd tactic from Hunt to say it's the "right q" to ask how NHS pledge will be funded - but refuse to give an answer beyond "trust us"

Listening now to a rather interesting discussion on how all the attacks on Miliband have made him stronger .... It's not going as Lynton planned if even the mainstream media are pointing out the flaws.

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 8:56 am

yahyah wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:will shut up now

thanks for listening.
Careful Tiny, you'll get a host of Nat online stalkers if you carry on like that.
(Am not entirely joking seeing the way some of them behave].

On such matters, Liberal handmaiden Caron Lindsay has been forced to make a weasel apology on trying to out someone in Scotland as a Labour supporter.

BTL of the original article she also tried to out a commenter on the thread as a Labour member saying she had searched back through [off-line] email exchanges she'd had with the person.
So much for Liberal moaning about the right to privacy !

Lindsay's had a lot of flak, even her apology seems to imply blame for Labour.
http://www.libdemvoice.org/resemblance- ... ent-347307" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That apology is like something I'd get from my kids "I'm sorry I sat on his head mum, but he should have got out of the chair when I told him to, so its his fault really."

I assume Caron Lindsay isn't six though.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:01 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all.

Hunt giving his usual slippery emollient guff interview. I think we're going to hear a lot from him in the next few weeks - he's the soft voiced equivalent of white noise and they've probably realised that's safer than the strident Gove and Fallons. The Radio 4 interviewer quoted back Osborne's words on the chaos of unfunded promises at him ... answer he had none.

James Tapsfield ‏@JamesTapsfield 4m4 minutes ago
Odd tactic from Hunt to say it's the "right q" to ask how NHS pledge will be funded - but refuse to give an answer beyond "trust us"
Listening now to a rather interesting discussion on how all the attacks on Miliband have made him stronger .... It's not going as Lynton planned if even the mainstream media are pointing out the flaws.

Also interesting that the Beeb have managed to find an older woman to speak...not sure who she is.

Have caught bits of the Election 2015 on BBC News 24 at night and every night their two political commenters seem to be under 35 years old.

Maybe that's why we are so fed up with the politics media, few of them have lived long enough to get a wider view of things and base their views on what they've read not what they lived through.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:01 am

On the Toady programme listen to Webb's interview with Liz Kendall just before 08:00. Full-on attack-dog mode never allowing her to finish a sentence. Then contrast with Mishal Hussain's full-on lap-dog approach allowing Hunt to say whatever he wants for 10 minutes. They don't even pretend to be impartial any more. At least I make no contribution to their wages.

Morning each.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:06 am

Robert Peston ‏@Peston 19m19 minutes ago

.@Jeremy_Hunt says Tories' promised increase in NHS spending is like Blair's. But Blair raised National Insurance to pay for it

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:11 am

frightful_oik wrote:On the Toady programme listen to Webb's interview with Liz Kendall just before 08:00. Full-on attack-dog mode never allowing her to finish a sentence. Then contrast with Mishal Hussain's full-on lap-dog approach allowing Hunt to say whatever he wants for 10 minutes. They don't even pretend to be impartial any more. At least I make no contribution to their wages.

Morning each.

Was only partially listening to Webb/Kendall as making breakfast took priority, but it seemed he was more interested in getting a 'Labour will/won't match Tory NHS pledge' than hearing the nuances of the situation regarding social and elderly care and the effect that has on the NHS.

The Today show interviews are set up to try and generate further, self-referential BBC headlines.

[Not sure there is such a term as self referential, may be one of my Bush-isms]

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:11 am

Faisal Islam @faisalislam · 8m 8 minutes ago
The strong "1000 jobs created every day" Conservative message is now "1000 jobs created everyday, all paying taxes" .... Which is telling...

Faisal Islam @faisalislam · 5m 5 minutes ago
... But one of the issues in tax system and public finances is that income taxes have not followed job creation... Hi allowance, low pay

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:15 am

: Comres Worm on Fallon Newsnight.jpg (35.58 KiB) Viewed 13779 times

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 7m 7 minutes ago
The ComRes "worm" shown on Newsnight as Michael Fallon made comments on EdM

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:16 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Tish wrote:Here's something to cheer us up, according the the Indy Labour are on course to win over 300 seats, and will therefore be free to tell the SNP where to stick their Full Fiscal Autonomy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 69064.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for this - says 48 SNP seats - the latest I saw was 53 to SNP/ 59.

I don't get it. I thought they just voted to stay in.

Maybe I'm just being hopelessly optimistic but I don't think these polls will be reflected on the day. Watching Coallition the other week I was reminded that last time the LibDems actually started beating Labour in the polls in the last weeks of the campaign, but it didn't actually turn into the tsunami of votes they were expecting becouse when it came down to it, a lot of people just weren't willing to take the risk. There could well be a similar effect with the SNP this time.

I don't doubt that they'll make massive gains, and will probably take nearly all of the LibDems current seats and a fair few from Labour, but this one party state vision that the polls are currently predicting just doesn't seem feasible.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:20 am

I'm not registered on Twitter so don't understand how the reporting abuse system works.

But this post seems possibly illegal, calling for the death of the Lib Dem Ham & High candidate because of his behaviour.

https://twitter.com/dugmatimez

If anyone can do, please can you report it. It was posted at about 9.18am.
Will not repeat it here.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:22 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote: Since when oil prices have tanked.

I get the impression that in the end, nationalists of all types, basically just hate their own country.
Not so sure about that, but there is certainly a wilful blindness about this amongst some Scots. I challenged them yesterday, Over There, to answer the question Sturgeon pointedly ducked; given that even SNP ministers were acknowledging that funding gap, how were they going to deal with it? Inevitably most of the answers were (more or less) " ****off you Red Tory, what the **** does it have to do with you, can't wait until we are shot of you ***** " - so presumably that group are going to rely on their anger to keep them warm.

I did, eventually, get a couple of civil answers but even they were trying to ignore the realities. What is going n isn't scaremongering, it isn't smears and fears, it is simply the SNP being subjected to the kind of close scrutiny that Labour have been under for years; the difference now is that Ed Balls (whatever you think of him) has done his sums properly and can give answers that stand up to scrutiny, whereas Sturgeon is gambling everything on massive and virtually instant economic growth. Infuriating,

Off to work. Laters.
That's kind of what I mean though. When I say nationalist here I specifically mean the leaders of those movements, who seem to be more than prepared to effectively missell their offer. Like used-car salesmen only quite a bit worse. Am not sure used-car salesmen hold their "marks" in very high regard.

Then, yes, I do agree. As far as I am concerned any nationalist politician is invariably more interested in creating a smaller pond in which they can be the biggest fish, than they are in the welfare of the people.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:31 am

yahyah wrote:I'm not registered on Twitter so don't understand how the reporting abuse system works.

But this post seems possibly illegal, calling for the death of the Lib Dem Ham & High candidate because of his behaviour.

https://twitter.com/dugmatimez

If anyone can do, please can you report it. It was posted at about 9.18am.
Will not repeat it here.

Reported. If other Twitter users do it action is more likely to be taken.

Post by **refitman** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:35 am

yahyah wrote:I'm not registered on Twitter so don't understand how the reporting abuse system works.

But this post seems possibly illegal, calling for the death of the Lib Dem Ham & High candidate because of his behaviour.

https://twitter.com/dugmatimez

If anyone can do, please can you report it. It was posted at about 9.18am.
Will not repeat it here.

'Reporting' is one of the options when logged in. Have done so.

Tonibel · Post by **Tonibel** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:40 am

I can't help thinking that there may be a number of shy Labour supporters in Scotland, just because if the virulence of some SNP supporters. I'm hoping they will come home to L. In the privacy of the polling booth.
We shall see.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 9:43 am

On the Nats I have come to pretty much the same conclusions.

They have no interest in the welfare of Scotland, only the Independence of Scotland. They will pose as left wing to get the votes for independence and seamlessly transition to austerity nutters the second they get Independence.

They have no interest in the people who live in Scotland, their only interest is Scotland.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 10:17 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Tish wrote:Here's something to cheer us up, according the the Indy Labour are on course to win over 300 seats, and will therefore be free to tell the SNP where to stick their Full Fiscal Autonomy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 69064.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for this - says 48 SNP seats - the latest I saw was 53 to SNP/ 59.

I don't get it. I thought they just voted to stay in.
That was before Cameron laughed in their faces the day after the vote, turning the high point of the SNP into a springboard.

Ah. Cameron really is a total (words suitable for public deployment fail me).

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 10:56 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote: Thanks for this - says 48 SNP seats - the latest I saw was 53 to SNP/ 59.

I don't get it. I thought they just voted to stay in.
That was before Cameron laughed in their faces the day after the vote, turning the high point of the SNP into a springboard.
Ah. Cameron really is a total (words suitable for public deployment fail me).

IMO, Cameron's government are responsible for letting the whole SNP fiasco get out of hand. What was originally set up was the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Executive - the latter being the Civil Service. It was the Scotland Act (2012) which allowed the SNP to rebrand it all as the Scottish Government.

The Scottish Government sits in Westminster. What we have in Holyrood is a devolved parliament which is responsible for administering a number of specifically identified functions (most of which were already the responsibility of the Scottish Office anyway).
The FM is the head of that devolved parliament and has no remit on matters such as the constitution, defence or the E/W/NI NHS. If the SNP want to pontificate on non-devolved matters, they have MPs, led by Angus Robertson, who were elected for this purpose.

I would be more convinced of an SNP landslide in the GE if I saw the predictions on Electoral Calculus vary (in any direction) from time to time. Figures for Labour and Tory have gone up and down, but the figure for the SNP has stood at 48 for weeks, if not months. Is this believable?

Rant over.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 11:07 am

Not even everybody in the SNP believes the latest YouGov poll in Scotland, btw.

There are murmurs that CyberNats have tried to "swamp" the panel up there as they previously attempted with Panelbase.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 11:09 am

Gorgeous George may have gone a step too far this time. Apparently Labour are referring him to the DPP over the allegations he made about Naz Shah.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32259901" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 11:16 am

Regarding Scotland, I personally think the siege mentality and resorting to shouting Project Fear is going to make a lot of seats very close. If you say its us (true Scots) v the rest, don't be surprised if the rest group together via tactical voting.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 11:16 am

Morning all. Weather not that great so I have a day in by myself after having done the weekly shop.

I have a look from time to time to see if there's anything on the Inst for Government site. This amused me on a post about civil service numbers.

http://www.instituteforgovernment.org.u ... f-numbers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

After steep cuts in the two years following the last spending review, the Home Office has increased in size continuously since the end of 2012, even after taking transfers (like the absorption of the Passport Office) into account. It is now only 5% smaller than at the beginning of the Parliament.

DECC grew continuously up to the end of 2013 (the department was only created in 2008) but has since stabilised. The Cabinet Office, which has led the charge of Efficiency and Reform in this Parliament, is now 9% bigger than in 2010. The erratic movements in DCMS’s staffing – an increase followed by a sharp decrease – reflect it gaining policy areas (like broadband) and completing delivery of the London 2012 Olympic Games.

Well, I guess someone has to check to see whether the others are being efficient...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 11:19 am

Talking of small parties, did people note that the BNP are fielding only 8 candidates?

Only a single one in Yorkshire.

Have a guess where...it's not difficult.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 11:25 am

Good morning... just.

This is a nice simple read.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 69010.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The night of May 7/8th could be very entertaining. There's so much to look forward to.

Beer and snacks already stocked.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 11:55 am

Tish wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Tish wrote:Here's something to cheer us up, according the the Indy Labour are on course to win over 300 seats, and will therefore be free to tell the SNP where to stick their Full Fiscal Autonomy.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 69064.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for this - says 48 SNP seats - the latest I saw was 53 to SNP/ 59.

I don't get it. I thought they just voted to stay in.
Maybe I'm just being hopelessly optimistic but I don't think these polls will be reflected on the day. Watching Coallition the other week I was reminded that last time the LibDems actually started beating Labour in the polls in the last weeks of the campaign, but it didn't actually turn into the tsunami of votes they were expecting becouse when it came down to it, a lot of people just weren't willing to take the risk. There could well be a similar effect with the SNP this time.

I don't doubt that they'll make massive gains, and will probably take nearly all of the LibDems current seats and a fair few from Labour, but this one party state vision that the polls are currently predicting just doesn't seem feasible.

I was looking at this recently as well and you're right, the polls for Labour were reasonably accurate running around 27/28% before the 2010 election - they eventually ended up on 29%, but the Libdems were wildly off the mark towards the end, hitting 32% at one point but only polling 23% on the big day. It's very hard to know whether 32% of people ever really intended to vote Libdem, or whether lack of past voting patterns meant the polling companies were misinterpreting the information they were getting. The SNP data is also unprecedented, so it's hard to know how accurate a predictor it will be. It's clear Labour will lose a lot of seats to the SNP, but not clear exactly how many.

The following resume from the BBC shows how some pollsters called the Tories and Labour pretty well (although slightly high for the Tories and slightly low for Labour) but all of them were a long way out for the Libdems. The article itself muses over the results for the Libdems being a bit of a mystery. No one seems to be wary of this when quoting polls for Scotland but it's worth bearing in mind:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/ ... 667801.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 12:22 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
miliband wrote:"Scotland can partner up with London, Liverpool and Cardiff in voting Labour and kicking out the Tories. "The Tories can't stop that in Scotland and the only people who can save the Tories in Scotland are the SNP.

"It would be a sad irony if the only people that stood in the way of getting rid of a Tory Government were SNP MPs in Scotland.
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/mili ... .122879118" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Just like it was when they ushered Thatcher in in the first place.

But if there are SNP MPs, the Tories won't win. It would help Labour, I think, to come first on seats. But the SNP won't allow a Tory government.

I don't know why Miliband is wasting time on this, now it look unlikely Con-Lib-Unionist won't get more than LAB-SNP-PC-SDLP.

It's better to go for them on policy and finances.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 12:24 pm

One of their party treasurers blocked me last night when I pointed out that even if the "£30bn of cuts" was true, it was for the whole of the UK and for several years. cf the Sco deficit for one year.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 12:29 pm

Spacedone wrote:
Robert Peston ‏@Peston 19m19 minutes ago

.@Jeremy_Hunt says Tories' promised increase in NHS spending is like Blair's. But Blair raised National Insurance to pay for it

A couple of weeks ago, Osborne Tweeted that if something wasn't done about the debt, the interest payments are so much they wouldn't be able to invest in the NHS or education.

Sounded like a threat to me.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 12:34 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
miliband wrote:"Scotland can partner up with London, Liverpool and Cardiff in voting Labour and kicking out the Tories. "The Tories can't stop that in Scotland and the only people who can save the Tories in Scotland are the SNP.

"It would be a sad irony if the only people that stood in the way of getting rid of a Tory Government were SNP MPs in Scotland.
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/mili ... .122879118" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Just like it was when they ushered Thatcher in in the first place.
But if there are SNP MPs, the Tories won't win. It would help Labour, I think, to come first on seats. But the SNP won't allow a Tory government.

I don't know why Miliband is wasting time on this, now it look unlikely Con-Lib-Unionist won't get more than LAB-SNP-PC-SDLP.

It's better to go for them on policy and finances.

If the SNP are cut loose with FFA for Scotland, the Tories could dominate rUK with a version of EVEL, though. That's the real danger. Although I agree you can't force the Scottish to vote Labour. They either will or they won't. Money is better spent on the Tory/Lab marginals and ensuring Labour have the most seats in England and Wales. That way you can be sure to block any kind of Tory government and the SNP may find themselves irrelevant. Talk is growing again of a Lab/Lib coalition. Sans Clegg, that could be a real possibility if Labour manage 300+ seats.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 12:37 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:But if there are SNP MPs, the Tories won't win. It would help Labour, I think, to come first on seats. But the SNP won't allow a Tory government.

If it furthered their agenda the SMP would anybody. Obviously they can't acknowledge that during the GE campaign, but I wouldn't bank on them keeping their word post-May 7th.

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I don't know why Miliband is wasting time on this, now it look unlikely Con-Lib-Unionist won't get more than LAB-SNP-PC-SDLP.

Is he wasting his time on it? Every time I've heard him speak he says he is working toward obtaining a majority, I think he'll only worry about the mechanics of coalition/C&S when it becomes a reality. Could just be my impression though.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 12:38 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote: But if there are SNP MPs, the Tories won't win. It would help Labour, I think, to come first on seats. But the SNP won't allow a Tory government.

I don't know why Miliband is wasting time on this, now it look unlikely Con-Lib-Unionist won't get more than LAB-SNP-PC-SDLP.

It's better to go for them on policy and finances.

I would assume Miliband is working for an overall majority, not a Lab/SNP "coalition".
If he doesn't have overall Labour control, he would (imo) have a more stable government with the LibDems rather than the nationalists. (Difficult choice though).

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 12:41 pm

: 2629be5f-d74f-4ce5-a281-a6415a66d4c2-620x372.jpeg (89.52 KiB) Viewed 13053 times

: dave alone.jpg (82.5 KiB) Viewed 13053 times

Which one a man of the people?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Apr, 2015 12:41 pm

If I've not done those images properly, could someone straighten them out, please?
Thank you.