Wednesday 15th April

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 4:30 pm

He has had a habit this last five years, by his own admission, of not looking very hard at much of the nasty stuff the Tories were pushing through.

Which does rather make one wonder what he *did* spend his time doing, tbh - Candy Crush?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 4:34 pm

For @YahYah

Lib Dems give up in South Tyneside – no candidates stand in council elections

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/loca ... -1-7209756

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 4:39 pm

ephemerid wrote:The Tories want a majority and have ruled out another coalition with the Yellow Peril.

Labour is planning a majority and has ruled out a coalition with the Yellow Peril.

So why is Clegg STILL droning on about all the things he will do when in coalition?

His latest in a long line of idiocies is claiming he would not allow benefit cuts in any coalition with the Tories.
Well, not the ones they've got planned anyway.
Even though we have absolutely no idea what they are.

I simply cannot believe what I'm hearing from him. Does he really think that he tempered the Tories' worst excesses?
Does he seriously expect us to believe that he didn't just roll over and let them do what they wanted?

This poor excuse for a man gave people hope in 2010. I know I'm not the only one who voted LibDem thinking he was selling left-of-centre policies. He couldn't even be bothered to read the Bills for H&SC/WRA yet whipped his MPs to support the government.

Good grief.

It's quite weird how some of these politician's brains work. As far as I can see they seem perfectly sincere when they make these statements (and I'm thinking of Shapps too). Something's not right with them.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 4:48 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:
Swarthlander wrote: Scarborough.
Ha! The postman has just delivered the Tory leaflet.
Apparently I have a choice between David Cameron or CHAOS!

I presume they no longer have freepost return addresses on them? I never missed the opportunity to send my thoughts back to them at their expense

It wasn't until I was 17 years old I learned the word, 'chaos', was the word I & others used sounding like, 'kaos'. I was an avid reader & recognised 'chaos' written meant disaster. I didn't make the connection between the written word 'chaos' & 'kaos' pronounced properly when I wasn't reading out loud from a book. I'd just turned 17 years old, it was 1984 & my dad gave me the newspaper to read. I read out loud 'chowes', one syllable, not a 'k' but a 'ch'. My dad laughed & I didn't mind at all because my dad's laughter never hurt me. It was an account of the Orgreave clash between thousands of striking miners & armed riot police using dogs & riding like soldiers into battle against unarmed strikers. My grandpa, my mother's father, was a member of the National Union of Mineworkers (NUM). I lived in California at that time & my dad detested unions, socialism & the Labour party; he told me he hated them. My dad said then he was sick inside working men were treated that way by the 'State'. He didn't believe the riot police were policemen. My dad said it wasn't right what happened to the miners. He still hated unions, socialism & the Labour party, he said he hated them. But he said then, 'If they don't have work, they don't get paid, they've nothing to do & what does Thatcher, what does that government expect working men to do?'. It was my dad, the man who said he hated socialism, unions & Labour who taught me never cross a picket line - ever. It was like a profane act, he said, to cross a picket line.

I've crossed picket lines without realising at the time I was doing so, in California.
The law was picketers couldn't be within a certain distance from the area & their signs had to pass inspection before they were allowed to hold them. Only a certain number of picketers were allowed to gather at any one time. They weren't allowed to talk to people approaching the area, they had to be spoken to first. I didn't know they were workers on strike & it wasn't until later I realised I'd crossed a picket line. It's hard to stand in solidarity with people you don't know you belong with in camaraderie & common cause. Those laws in California were done to destroy the link, the connection between workers protesting against unjust employment conditions & those people who have everything in common with them but aren't given the chance to know it.

Anyway, Tories talking or writing about chaos from outside their party have projection issues.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 4:51 pm

Labour outlines plans for grandparent leave to look after grandchildren

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 76698.html

Every little helps...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 4:59 pm

Can't find the Tweet now, but Rebecca Brookes is to return to the Sun...(Something about in charge of the digital side of things?)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:07 pm

Don't Stop Me Now ... By George Osborne

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxBMT0r ... pp=desktop

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:08 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
There's nothing 'competitive', good, necessary or desirable about for-profit enterprises driving off choices by monopolising the playing field using the economy everyone has to use leaving customers who need a product or service having one or a few at most monster corporations delivering that for-profit product or service. What motivates those mega-corporations to maintain quality, good service & fairly priced products once they're the only gig in town?

It won't be a competitor delivering a better product or service for less because once Food4U & their monster car-park set up shop, smaller grocers selling quality foods during an 8-hour work day employing cheerful, fairly compensated staff won't even make it into one of those empty shops in town because everyone works at Food4U making apprenticeship wages if they're lucky, Workfare placement 'benefits' for the less lucky & literally cannot afford to buy from them, even if they knew Quality Grocer opened up around the corner. It's small, the marketing budget is gone on paying business rates, 2 fairly paid employees & the stock itself.
But choice is better, at least for the consumer, surely? When I think back to the food available even 15 to 20 years ago, the quality, range and delivery is much better now.

When I was a child I was dragged around a supermarket every weekend by my parents. Now, I have my weekly shop delivered to my door by Tesco (much greener than everyone driving to supermarkets). I pick up a veg bag from round the corner. Buy meat and fish at local butchers and fishmongers. Everything just better than it was.

At the lower price end, Lidl and Aldi offer fruit, veg and meat at an astonishingly low price. Food prices have been falling as a share of our incomes (which is partially why housing is such an issue - it is now the sharp end of where poverty is felt.)

I know that these people are in it to make money, but they can only do that by offering people stuff at a competitive price.

The point about low pay in Tescos is a by-product of tax credits. If you pay tax credits to the working poor (as we do - but many other developed countries do not to the same extent) that encourages a business model where the employer employs part time low paid workers, with the bill picked up in part by the state. That is the model Tescos (and others) operate to. It is sometimes said that it would be better to do away with tax credits and increase the minimum wage. Tescos (and others) would respond by increasing automation. Productivity would go up, but we'd have more unemployment. Take your choice. I choose what we have.

There was a time a few years ago when Tescos were making supra normal profits on their capital (ie it looked like a cartel). Not any longer. We don't want Tescos making lots of money. Their profit collapse has coincided with overall retail sales growth, which seems to show that it is a structural problem for them. Good.
It's not *that* much better for the consumer. Food from supermarkets is still too full of salt, sugar and preservatives. The only way to make the food they sell healthier is to go against the market.

And it's demonstrably worse for the producers/suppliers, the communities that rely on them. And then you have the fact that a lot of what has made supermarkets cheaper is absolutely barking in environmental terms. Unseasonal fruit/veg shipped literally halfway around the world in some cases. And then you get the likes of cheap Spanish Iceberg lettuce cramming supermarket shelves when we can grow the stuff perfectly well here - but the farmers have to compete in a race to the bottom so they hire workers from Eastern Europe for less money than the local workers they used to hire.

I'm not convinced higher wages would force Tesco et al to automate, and I can't see how many jobs could be automated at all. If markets work, they should work for everyone, surely, including the workers? If a market needs to be subsidised by the state, which tax credits are effectively doing, then it has failed.

Markets can work to make some things better but they can be a pandora's box. The only way to make sure they work for the people they are supposed to is to regulate.

Well, here we come to a split.

Price fixing doesn't work. We know that if we know anything at all about economics.

The minimum wage makes little sense in economic terms. It is a market distortion, which prevents the market in employment from clearing.

Why have it then?

Because of human dignity. There is a level below which we think it is unacceptable for people to work.

We have heard the cry that they cannot automate in lots of different industries. It has happened. It will happen eventually with supermarkets too.

There are things we can and should do to help the poorest. A guaranteed income is not a bad idea at all (although the Greens are doing their best to discredit it). Fixing wage levels is not one. Even Labour's modest tax rebate for the living wage is probably a bad idea, for the reasons I gave above.

You make a good and important point about environmental impact. that is an important concern. We can't just pursue the maximisation of wealth (and its fair distribution) and devil take the environment. Similarly, cheap food is great, but it isn't great if people choose to eat fatty salty rubbish. There have to be trade offs here.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:18 pm

@CitizenJA

Think this might interest you.

http://www.clientearth.org/news/press-r ... -2015-2821

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:23 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft Apr 13

Quite something politics. Tories now promising unfunded policies while Labour working hard at fully costing policies #topsyturvy

I find this comment quite illuminating.
Yes - to me, it puts a different slant on the situation to that which the mainstream press is pushing, doesn't it (ie the "swapping clothes" line which I take to be a slur on Labour)?
Straight from the horses mouth isn't it.
I take is as confirmation that Ed is telling the truth re carefully costing policies, and the Conservatives aren't.

I hadn't thought of that. You're right; I'm encouraged.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:26 pm

ohsocynical wrote:@CitizenJA

Think this might interest you.

http://www.clientearth.org/news/press-r ... -2015-2821

You've read my mind.
The UK still doesn't have functional air pollution monitors. I've had no readings from the website below in a week.

http://aqicn.org/map/europe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:27 pm

@CitizenJA

The California State Senate Democratic Caucus is following me on Twitter.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:28 pm

Have we had this yet? I am a bad skimreader, apologies in advance.

Stewart Hosie doesn't realise that the deficit under FFA is extra to Scotland's share of the UK debt!

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... es-5515356" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hosie said: “£7.6billion – it’s a big scary number and it’s the one that our opponents have alighted upon this week.

“The UK has a deficit of £75billion and a debt of £1.5trillion.

“It’s rather patronising for our opponents to suggest that Scotland couldn’t manage a deficit down from £7.6billion into the future but the UK, which has performed very badly, can somehow suggest they can get their deficit down.”

Buffoon.

Interesting that he thinks the UK has performed "very badly" too. I saw yesterday average annual growth from 1997-2006 was 3.1%, double Germany's. The problem with the UK hasn't been its overall economic performance, even for most of the Thatcher period. It's with the social costs of this growth. There's a circle to be squared.

Of course, Hosie and all would sort this out in about 5 minutes. By saying "Scotland" all the time.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:28 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:@CitizenJA

Think this might interest you.

http://www.clientearth.org/news/press-r ... -2015-2821
You've read my mind.
The UK still doesn't have functional air pollution monitors. I've had no readings from the website below in a week.

http://aqicn.org/map/europe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Probably switched them off.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:32 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
yahyah wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I'm still confused about the tax\minimum wage thing. Amongst other things - doesn't HMRC tax you on the amount of money you get - and that not co-related to how many hours you worked to get it (ie how do they know you're on minimum wage and not just working short hours)? It sounds like a form-filling nightmare.

Maybe the Tories are going to do what I think they've planned for the married allowance if they are re-elected, that it would be settled at the end of the tax year.

Or maybe, more likely, they haven't actually thought about it.
You do get the impression that if (God forbid) they manage to cling to power it'll be a question of "Oh sod, now what do we do, we've got to deliver on some of that twaddle?"

Tories are grossly unprofessional & inadequate leaders. They're fired. Sacked. Made redundant.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:34 pm

You've got to love bishops.

Barry Morgan, Archbishop of Wales, has made a very political speech and is urging people to vote.

To help the poor.

See walesonline.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:36 pm

@CitizenJA

If you go to the Met Office site you can put in your post code and it will give you the forecast and at the bottom of the chart they give UV and air quality readings. It might help a bit.

It's been into the mid seventies here today with wall to wall sunshine. The inside of my nose is dry and burning so I guess the air quality is pretty bad, but then again, I suspect it's never very good because of being so close to London.

Edited to add link. http://www.metoffice.gov.uk

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:39 pm

danesclose wrote:For a bit of light relief, I noticed this in the latest Private Eye:

2015-04-15_145817.jpg

Am not proud but I did coin "wee lego krankie" (given haircut) some days ago.

(sheepish and yet at the same time showing off emoticon)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:41 pm

Swarthlander wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:
yahyah wrote:
What's your constituency Swartlander ?
Scarborough.
Ha! The postman has just delivered the Tory leaflet.
Apparently I have a choice between David Cameron or CHAOS!

Choose CHAOS - at least you'll know what you're getting.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:41 pm

Ian ‏@Mancman10 56 secs56 seconds ago Manchester, England

ComRes/ITV poll for SW LD held Tory targets:

CON 44% (+4)
LDEM 26% (-22)
LAB 13% (+7)
UKIP 10% (+6)
GRN 5% (+3)
If true LDs in big trouble

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:46 pm

Did Clegg think through his Wizard of Oz analogy? If we follow the logic to the end then the Tories will realise they have a heart, Labour are shown to already have a brain and Clegg is revealed to be a short fraud hiding behind a curtain pretending to have more power than he actually does.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:47 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:
Swarthlander wrote: Scarborough.
Ha! The postman has just delivered the Tory leaflet.
Apparently I have a choice between David Cameron or CHAOS!

Choose CHAOS - at least you'll know what you're getting.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:54 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
There's nothing 'competitive', good, necessary or desirable about for-profit enterprises driving off choices by monopolising the playing field using the economy everyone has to use leaving customers who need a product or service having one or a few at most monster corporations delivering that for-profit product or service. What motivates those mega-corporations to maintain quality, good service & fairly priced products once they're the only gig in town?

It won't be a competitor delivering a better product or service for less because once Food4U & their monster car-park set up shop, smaller grocers selling quality foods during an 8-hour work day employing cheerful, fairly compensated staff won't even make it into one of those empty shops in town because everyone works at Food4U making apprenticeship wages if they're lucky, Workfare placement 'benefits' for the less lucky & literally cannot afford to buy from them, even if they knew Quality Grocer opened up around the corner. It's small, the marketing budget is gone on paying business rates, 2 fairly paid employees & the stock itself.
But choice is better, at least for the consumer, surely? When I think back to the food available even 15 to 20 years ago, the quality, range and delivery is much better now.

If you can't afford to buy choice, you don't have choices.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:57 pm

ohsocynical wrote:@CitizenJA

The California State Senate Democratic Caucus is following me on Twitter.

It wasn't me.
Seriously, why do you reckon they're doing that?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 5:58 pm

Spacedone wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Swarthlander wrote: Ha! The postman has just delivered the Tory leaflet.
Apparently I have a choice between David Cameron or CHAOS!

Choose CHAOS - at least you'll know what you're getting.

I want one.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:00 pm

Bevanknewbest ‏@Bevanknewbest 15 mins15 minutes ago
SURPRISE SURPRISE Nigel Farage in informal talks with the Conservatives | via @Telegraph

Those Labour defectors then....

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:04 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:@CitizenJA

The California State Senate Democratic Caucus is following me on Twitter.
It wasn't me.
Seriously, why do you reckon they're doing that?

I've no idea. I think there is some stupid app on Twitter that automatically roams around and finds names to follow in the hope you'll follow them. Even business's show up as following you. I enjoy blocking them.

One things for sure. If they follow me for any length of time they'll know I hate Tories...Can't be bad.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:04 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: That is how competition works in markets like this. Expecting start ups to compete with Tescos is unrealistic. Expecting other major international players to do so is. And has happened. It is just observably not a cartel, and Tescos earnings per share is not great. You are at least ten years behind the curve.

A classic example of a firm with a competitive edge, that loses it overtime as other market players copy their model or undercut them.

Sometimes markets work. Recognising that doesn't make you a free market libertarian.

The only options are not

(a) free market libertarian

or

(b) a denial that markets ever work, so that any market distortion just has to be accepted.

I don't accept either view.
So you're into corparatism. Ever read any Naomi Wolf?
Or Naomi Klein

Bugger!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:07 pm

Rebecca wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote: Food sale and distribution is a nice example, one that was often used about 10 to 15 years ago to make the point you are making.

It turned out not to be true. It turned out that in the UK we have a fiercely competitive food retail sector driving prices down (ask a dairy farmer). Aldi and Lidl undercut the big five who had been coasting for too long. The market worked.

Retail banking in the UK makes almost no money. A bank will lose money on things like current accounts (these are loss leaders to try and get you into the bank to buy other things like insurance). That is a sector (unlike supermarkets) where it would be good to have more competition, but that problem is created by regulation itself. The barriers to entry are now such that trying to start a new bank is nearly impossible.

Monopoly utility and services providers are regulated already. Nobody, including Tories, thinks we should abolish Ofwat, Ofgem, or Ofcom.

You are presenting a false dichotomy between free market libertarians and sensible people like yourself.

I'm not. I am just saying why the specific policies that are new, and the product of the predistribution thinking of Wood, aren't very good.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am a Labour voter. If you want a reason why, I only have to cite yesterday's insane Tory policy on housing, which was far worse than any of the not sensible policies I criticise here.
(my bold)

What you call 'fiercely competitive' regarding grocery stores I call 'rapacious vulture capitalism'.

There's nothing 'competitive', good, necessary or desirable about for-profit enterprises driving off choices by monopolising the playing field using the economy everyone has to use leaving customers who need a product or service having one or a few at most monster corporations delivering that for-profit product or service. What motivates those mega-corporations to maintain quality, good service & fairly priced products once they're the only gig in town?

It won't be a competitor delivering a better product or service for less because once Food4U & their monster car-park set up shop, smaller grocers selling quality foods during an 8-hour work day employing cheerful, fairly compensated staff won't even make it into one of those empty shops in town because everyone works at Food4U making apprenticeship wages if they're lucky, Workfare placement 'benefits' for the less lucky & literally cannot afford to buy from them, even if they knew Quality Grocer opened up around the corner. It's small, the marketing budget is gone on paying business rates, 2 fairly paid employees & the stock itself.

I think it's great you're voting .
Everyone who can, please vote.
Vote hard, often & pay as much attention to government leadership as possible while earning a living, raising family (I especially want to remember & appreciate those people living in a family of one person - one person families are many in society), making a home...playing music, hiking, caring for friends/family unable to care for themselves & living as healthy a life as possible.
The choices that government makes will directly impact the daily lives of most of us.

If those with disabilities can safely work at employment, we accommodate & benefit from that work as a society. Those people with disabilities preventing their having other employment have one job, let's recognise it, their work isn't easy: Daily, live & thrive as much as possible & society made together assists disabled friends who won't live in fear of not having what is necessary to live.

I'm glad you're voting Labour, SpinningHugo, it's the best choice now, in my opinion, vote Labour.
Regardless of how you vote or your philosophical outlook, thank you for some provocative ideas you share.
I look over my own ideas to make sure I'm not offending my soul by not thinking or not correcting error when I'm mistaken.
Sometimes I'm unable to appreciative some of your provocative contributions - that's normal - intelligent people often disagree.
If I've been personally offensive to you, I'm sorry for it. Please accept my apology. We can all disagree together without harm with words or action.
Thanked you in error!now I am an equal opportunity clumsy fingered comment or.What I meant to do is ask what on ear th does 'vote hard' mean?Do I need to dress up like Rambo before I go to the polling station or simply put a lot of weight on the pencil when I place my x?p

Yes, that's what I meant when I wrote 'vote hard' - maximum amount of pressure on pencil marking the ballot

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:12 pm

Former Tory peer calls Conservative manifesto 'the mother of all lies'
He says the Tories austerity policies have damaged the economy and slowed down the recovery

http://linkis.com/www.mirror.co.uk/new/e53pY

Blimey. A Tory actually admitting the truth. Never thought I'd see the day.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:13 pm

ohsocynical wrote:For @YahYah

Lib Dems give up in South Tyneside – no candidates stand in council elections

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/loca ... -1-7209756

Thanks OhSo.

Have to admit though that my Lib Dem obsession has eased a tad over these five years, to be replaced by the SNP.
Seeing the Libs get their kicking helps, just hope I live long enough to see nationalism (be it Scottish, Welsh or UKIP) die the death it deserves.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:13 pm

This is maybe a silly question,but why is the labour pink bus any more ridiculous than the other party buses?If you saw them all lined up would you fall about laughing at the pink one?
Tediously,the area I live in has had the same Tory mp for 32 years.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:22 pm

Evening all.

Despite the apparent unlikeliness, wouldn't it be really, really funny if Nick Clegg turned out to be just plain wrong on this one:

Nick Clegg has said no party will win an outright election victory and warned voters they face a choice between the Lib Dems, the SNP and UKIP over who holds the balance of power.

I rather wish Labour could win a majority, purely to put the arrogant so-and-so well and truly in his place. Unfortunately Clegg's disastrous leadership of the Libdems, which is looking likely to lead to them being wiped out in the South West, is probably going to be key to the Tories achieving enough seats for some kind of minority govt. Do we believe the polls, though? I saw a lot of Libdem placards when visiting my dad in deepest darkest Somerset this morning and not a single Tory one. Not what you expect in a constituency that is supposed to be a dead cert to be a Tory gain. Although I still expect it to go blue, the enthusiasm for Dave and co just doesn't seem to be there. Oh, and no "Rees-Mogg" on the Tory placards round my way, either - are they afraid his name will be a put-off?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:23 pm

Tim Aker. Good God.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:25 pm

Rebecca wrote:This is maybe a silly question,but why is the labour pink bus any more ridiculous than the other party buses?If you saw them all lined up would you fall about laughing at the pink one?
Tediously,the area I live in has had the same Tory mp for 32 years.

Because it's pink and pink is demeaning to women..... obvs when you (the right wing press) think about it.
I mean, when was the last time any woman had absolutely anything in pink?

Come on gang lets kick 'um!!

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:29 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Rebecca wrote:This is maybe a silly question,but why is the labour pink bus any more ridiculous than the other party buses?If you saw them all lined up would you fall about laughing at the pink one?
Tediously,the area I live in has had the same Tory mp for 32 years.
Because it's pink and pink is demeaning to women..... obvs when you (the right wing press) think about it.
I mean, when was the last time any woman had absolutely anything in pink?
Come on gang lets kick 'um!!

I'm not a girly girl type, have just been out digging flower beds out of rock and clay this afternoon. But I do like a slap of bright pink lipstick.
Exactly the shade of the Labour bus.

Seriously...why are the ***** media still whining about it.

As the Archbishop of Wales is pointing out, people need to focus on important issues at this election,
not the colour of a flipping bus.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:30 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Former Tory peer calls Conservative manifesto 'the mother of all lies'
He says the Tories austerity policies have damaged the economy and slowed down the recovery

http://linkis.com/www.mirror.co.uk/new/e53pY

Blimey. A Tory actually admitting the truth. Never thought I'd see the day.

Well, it is Skidelsky...he does know his economic stuff. He was a harsh critic of Thatcherism. Sits as a cross-bencher now anyway.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:30 pm

PorFavor wrote:Tim Aker. Good God.

Please say more PF.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:36 pm

Cameron crackdown on tax havens 'purely political gesture', says Tory peer

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... are_btn_tw

Now it's all coming out. Hope it's not been left too late.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:37 pm

yahyah wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Tim Aker. Good God.
Please say more PF.

Short but succinct...

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:40 pm

yahyah wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:For @YahYah

Lib Dems give up in South Tyneside – no candidates stand in council elections

http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/loca ... -1-7209756

Thanks OhSo.

Have to admit though that my Lib Dem obsession has eased a tad over these five years, to be replaced by the SNP.
Seeing the Libs get their kicking helps, just hope I live long enough to see nationalism (be it Scottish, Welsh or UKIP) die the death it deserves.

Just as a matter of interest, in Tameside Borough (which has 3 parliamentary seats) in the 19 local council seats the LibDems are only standing in one (Mossley). At the last parliamentary elections the LibDems got over 18,000 in total in the three seats so this must surely disintegrate this time round.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:42 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Rebecca wrote:This is maybe a silly question,but why is the labour pink bus any more ridiculous than the other party buses?If you saw them all lined up would you fall about laughing at the pink one?
Tediously,the area I live in has had the same Tory mp for 32 years.
Because it's pink and pink is demeaning to women..... obvs when you (the right wing press) think about it.
I mean, when was the last time any woman had absolutely anything in pink?
Come on gang lets kick 'um!!

Pink is a social democrat colour. I'm pretty certain Hollande's Socialist Party uses pink. Clearly French men are much more confident in their sexuality and don't feel threatened by the colour's supposed association with the female kind, unlike much of the mainstream British press, whose obsession with the choice of colour is almost unnerving! At the end of the day, pink is a male issue. Women are happy to wear clothes in any colour. It's men actively avoiding pink that has made it a supposed 'girl' colour. I thought the likes of Jake Humphries (BBC sports presenter, for those who don't know him) often to be seen in a fetching pink shirt meant we had finally put such idiocy behind us. Clearly not.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:42 pm

yahyah wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
Rebecca wrote:This is maybe a silly question,but why is the labour pink bus any more ridiculous than the other party buses?If you saw them all lined up would you fall about laughing at the pink one?
Tediously,the area I live in has had the same Tory mp for 32 years.
Because it's pink and pink is demeaning to women..... obvs when you (the right wing press) think about it.
I mean, when was the last time any woman had absolutely anything in pink?
Come on gang lets kick 'um!!

I'm not a girly girl type, have just been out digging flower beds out of rock and clay this afternoon. But I do like a slap of bright pink lipstick.
Exactly the shade of the Labour bus.

Seriously...why are the ***** media still whining about it.

As the Archbishop of Wales is pointing out, people need to focus on important issues at this election,
not the colour of a flipping bus.

I think they hate that it's been so successful. I honestly believe it'll be women who win this election for Labour and the pink mini- bus will have played a large part in it.

I mean. Did you see the size of the Tory and LibDem ones

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:45 pm

yahyah wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Tim Aker. Good God.
Please say more PF.

Loudmouthed, besuited, young(ish), bully-boy type (he looks like a typical City trader) and interviewed on the BBC. He doesn't appear to have caught up with this week's Ukip manifesto (or he's ignoring it because he wasn't allowed to write it). Trouble is, his sort of behaviour is probably what the party followers like.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:47 pm

New Welsh poll:

Would like to see Labour higher, and that UKIP % is shockingly high.
Sadly, the Lib Dems have recovered a bit, were only on 3% at one point.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:53 pm

Just to add, in 2010 the result in Wales was:

Labour 36.%
Tories 26%
Lib Dems 20%
Plaid 11%
UKIP 2.4%

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 6:53 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Can't find the Tweet now, but Rebecca Brookes is to return to the Sun...(Something about in charge of the digital side of things?)

Here you go.

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2015/ ... -side.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 7:48 pm

Good start to my day. I was trotting through town with a bunch of bananas under my arm (essential lunchtime boost for a hard working gardener) when I met someone I had invited to attend the informal meeting with our Labour candidate. He has voted Labour before but had been very undecided this time around ....

He greeted me with a beaming smile and said I've just sent back my postal vote - and it was for your man. He got his postal vote yesterday and returned it almost immediately. It wasn't just our guy that swung it for him though .... he said the Tory manifesto was so atrocious - the proposal to abolish the Human Rights Act being the arsenic icing on the ricin cake - he couldn't bear the thought of them getting back in.

Result!

Of course my second client of the day had a Vote Ukip poster in every window of his bungalow ... but he is nearly 90 and an utterly delightful bloke (yes really) and lives in Ceredigion so I don't worry too much and certainly don't attempt to ask him why. Why?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 7:58 pm

Iain Martin ‏@iainmartin1 4m4 minutes ago
Angry Cameron - furious about Tories being called party of the rich.

He's got some nerve - or absolutely no self awareness - or both.

When I heard him interviewed on Radio 4 yesterday all I could hear was a plummy over modulated and totally synthetic charm ... he oozes privilege.

I would say it's not so much about being rich as privileged - they are the party of the privileged.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 8:01 pm

John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 5m5 minutes ago
"Prime Minister, you’re bamboozling me with figures." Things you never expected to hear from @EvanHD

Has a ring of sickly Ferrero Rocher ad about it ...