Thursday 16th April 2015

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:15 pm

Nick Robinson ‏@bbcnickrobinson 4m4 minutes ago
The Ed v Nicola show. My blog on the debate and why David Cameron will be pleased he wasn't there http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32345533" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Funnily enough I think that's one opinion piece I'll be giving a miss.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:15 pm

This made me laugh.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:15 pm

Mwahhahahahaha, Cleggy wants a one on one debate with Ed !

Nick Clegg ✔ @nick_clegg
Follow
I'll debate with you @Ed_Miliband, even if @David_Cameron won't. Any time, any place, anywhere. #BBCDebate pic.twitter.com/GWc6JGBVYk
10:09 PM - 16 Apr 2015

Ed should reply along the lines of 'sorry Cleggy, you missed the show tonight. I will only debate with potential PMs, not the poodles'

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:15 pm

diGriz wrote:
— Nick Clegg (@nick_clegg)
April 16, 2015

I'll debate with you @Ed_Miliband, even if @David_Cameron won't. Any time, any place, anywhere. #BBCDebate pic.twitter.com/GWc6JGBVYk
Desperate.

Talk to the hand Nick, the face doesn't want to know.

What an arse, he could probably have gate crashed the event.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:15 pm

diGriz wrote:
— Nick Clegg (@nick_clegg)
April 16, 2015

I'll debate with you @Ed_Miliband, even if @David_Cameron won't. Any time, any place, anywhere. #BBCDebate pic.twitter.com/GWc6JGBVYk
Desperate.

Sad. He's like the kid no one wants to play with and everyone ignores.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:17 pm

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:17 pm

Watched it on delay thanks to puppy playing having a mad half hour!
My thoughts.
Miliband did well, especially against Sturgeon. Audience appeared very anti Ed? Wood and Bennett were very poor this time. Novelty worn off?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:20 pm

Survation. ‏@Survation 1m1 minute ago
Survation for @dailymirror #bbcdebate
Who do you think ‘won’ the debate?
Miliband 35%
Sturgeon 31%
Farage 27%
Bennett 5%
Wood - 2%

Bet this will be a snap with someone ... but here goes.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:20 pm

Survation. ‏@Survation 48 secs49 seconds ago
Survation for @dailymirror #bbcdebate
Who do you think ‘won’ the debate?
Miliband 35%
Sturgeon 31%
Farage 27%
Bennett 5%
Wood - 2%

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:20 pm

Jack Blanchard ‏@Jack_Blanchard_ 2 mins2 minutes ago

HERE WE GO.
Mirror/Survation poll on who 'won' the #BBCDebate.
Miliband - 35%
Sturgeon - 31%
Farage - 27%
Bennett - 5%
Wood - 2%

Damn. Pipped to the post. Twice.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:21 pm

Snap

)))))))))))))))))))))

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:21 pm

Spacedone wrote:

Interesting photo that. All 3 women going toward Ed suggests he may have been advised to stand his ground instead of rushing toward them in order to shake hands...

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:21 pm

Banksy's comment on UKIP (mural). From Vox Political blog via Mike Sivier's post I saw on Google+
Apols if posted earlier.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:22 pm

Spacedone wrote:

Ha!looks like the ladies want to join Eds harem,and 3 pairs of cold shoulders for poor old Nigel.
Thanks for the commentary.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:22 pm

I shan't play " Snap" with you RR2 and Ohso. But, job done methinks.

A very good night to all!

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:22 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Watched it on delay thanks to puppy playing having a mad half hour!
My thoughts.
Miliband did well, especially against Sturgeon. Audience appeared very anti Ed? Wood and Bennett were very poor this time. Novelty worn off?

Ed was playing the nice uncle who you would like to be a little more generous. His lines weren't going to excite a very left wing audience. He was warmly received which was about what he could have expected.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:22 pm

Thanks, everyone.

Goodnight.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:22 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
danesclose wrote:
yahyah wrote:Polly Toynbee;

'His deadly opponent was Nicola Surgeon. He could have been easy meat for her deft jibes, but with a powerful defence of the union he more than survived: he might even have retrieved some Scottish votes.

Miliband’s team will be rightly delighted. At every outing he grows in strength and confidence.'
Just had a look at the Telegraph site. Guess who DFH thought was the winner ?
Cameron??

You've already read it?

(DFH not you AK)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:24 pm

danesclose wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
danesclose wrote: Just had a look at the Telegraph site. Guess who DFH thought was the winner ?
Cameron??
You've already read it?
(DFH not you AK)

I was joking FFS - is that actually true!?!?!?

That smiley has rarely been more appropriate

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:24 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Sturgeon hits back by asking whether Miliband would rather see David Cameron "walk back into Downing Street" than work with the SNP. She gets a lot of applause for that. (From The Independent's live coverage)
What? That doesn't even make sense.

Yeah, Ed treated that with the contempt it deserved.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:24 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Sturgeon hits back by asking whether Miliband would rather see David Cameron "walk back into Downing Street" than work with the SNP. She gets a lot of applause for that. (From The Independent's live coverage)
What? That doesn't even make sense.

No it didn't at the time either but she said it with volume and her fan club was in tonight. According to her the reason for fighting the election was to get rid of Cameron, in which case she should be telling people to vote Labour as it the only way to be sure.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:25 pm

Just in case anyone cares about DFH's thoughts:

BBC TV debate: Ed Miliband's unnecessary appearance gave David Cameron a PR victory
Just by taking part, Ed Miliband ensured that the real winner was David Cameron

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:25 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
refitman wrote:Thanks to everyone for mbm-ing the debate. I decided to watch Layer Cake instead and feel much better for it.
You missed Ed looking like the PM. Everybody kept asking him what he was going to do.

I particularly loved the part when all of the party leaders declared their animosity for any future Tory government.

The Tory-led coalition government of the last five years decided not to attend tonight's job interview with the people they're asking to represent for the next five years. They've lied about their reason for not showing tonight. They've lied about their accomplishments during the last five years. No, this isn't how all governments behave. The UK Tory-LibDem coalition government of 2010-2015 will stand out for it's total disregard for truth, justice & fairness evidenced on a daily basis, pretty much doing whatever the hell they've wanted & making up stories about it all for the full five years. They act as though they own the country & people & may treat them both like a personal possession.

I'm shocked by Dave's behaviour. When the Tories aren't returned to government in a few weeks, I ask what the plan is when Dave 'declines to accept that'? It's likely he'll stagger a bit as he's done in the past & then say the words, 'I get it, I get that...' & go away.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:27 pm

Thanks for the triple Survationpoll posting, can go to bed feeling a little easier.

Wood didn't do well, not surprised.
Elin Jones would have made a much more credible leader, more intelligent and able even if she is a badger-culler. Still, Plaid obviously thought they could pull off what the SNP have done, and try to steal Labour's vote with a firebrand South Wales woman rather than a mid-Wales more homely type..

Post by **refitman** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:28 pm

pk1 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Any polls yet ?
Think it's only Survation that is doing one.

Andrew is blogging about Twitter reactions but frankly, that's a piss poor indication because had I been tweeting instead of listening, I would have given EM the win every time he opened his mouth

He did put a caveat:

(But, remember, if Twitter was a reliable guide to public opinion, Scotland would be independent.)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:28 pm

WelshIan wrote:
yahyah wrote:Have only just been watching it for 10 minutes and it feels to me that Ed is having a hard time from the audience.

Bennett, to my husband comes across as a harridan, & to me as a stupid moo.
If she were genuinely a left winger she would have been supporting Ed when he said that Farage had wanted an insurance system for the NHS. Instead she was shrieking at Ed.
Now she is trying amateur dramatics - what a shocker she is. Oh, lord she used the 'hope' word.
Aaarggghhhhh !!!

As for Ms anti-austerity Wood, her party find no problem cutting local services where I live, so what a hypocrite.

As for the BBC, in a country where Labour are polling over 30% it seems mighty bizarre they can't find an audience to reflect that.
Leanne Wood, Natalie Bennett and Nicola Sturgeon all said some socialist, left wing things whereas Ed was more towards the centre. That may be why he seemed to have more of a hard time? Any left leaning audience member may have been more encouraged by what they said than Ed? It's not often that the majority of views in this sort of discussion are on the left.
I thought the 3 women did reasonably well, Ed was good and Farage was nowhere. It was telling that when answering one of the questions, all of them received applause except Farage. His views did not go down well at all.

I thought Nicola Sturgeon didn't end very well, though - saying the main thing is to get rid of the Tory gov. As I said above, why vote SNP in that case?
Ed ended well, he looked relaxed and in control. A small thing, but I liked that he leaned on the lectern in front of him - it seemed a more engaged, personal chat somehow. Ed was not looking for my vote with that performance - he was pitching at the middle England vote, taking votes from the Tories, so of course some of what he said was not to my taste, I preferred what the women had to say.

Plaid in local government - when they were in power in Caerphilly (from around 2007-11, I think), they cut services too, and refused to put up Council Tax to try and mitigate some cuts. They actually campaigned on how successful they'd been in not putting it up, my local councillor seemed surprised to hear the alternative view that some cuts would not have happened if more money had been raised from Council Tax!

Having watched Sturgeon in three debates now, I guarantee she's feeling like a King maker. Riding on Eds coat tails.
Reminded of Miss Piggys 'who moi' when Ed mentioned Indy Ref. As if the thought had never crossed her mind. Must have realised she was putting off potential SNP voters who voted no, so had quickly changed her tune. In a way it makes her more dangerous. Obviously had the audience behind her when she accused Ed of not prepared to get the Tories out by any means.

Disconcerting.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:28 pm

PorFavor wrote:Thanks, everyone.

Goodnight.

Goodnight, PF.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:28 pm

Survation Poll - Miliband wins by 4 points from Sturgeon:

Survation for @dailymirror #bbcdebate
Who do you think ‘won’ the debate?
Miliband 35%
Sturgeon 31%
Farage 27%
Bennett 5%
Wood - 2%

Not sure how Wood can get -2%

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:30 pm

3rd 'random' audience member thinks EM was crap. And first listener is a kipper and second thinks Farage was best. Jeez!

Third liked Sturgeon but hates Cameron and Miliband. Lefty BBC strikes again.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:30 pm

Beattie @JBeattieMirror · 5m 5 minutes ago
More @Survation on #BBCDebate
Most appealing personality?
Miliband - 21%
Farage - 23%
Sturgeon - 30%
Bennett - 9%
Wood - 16%

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:31 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:I shan't play " Snap" with you RR2 and Ohso. But, job done methinks.

A very good night to all!

Goodnight, TGS.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:31 pm

More @Survation Would make best PM?
Miliband - 43%
Farage - 26%
Sturgeon - 25%
Bennett - 3%
Wood - 3%

So not even all Greens think Bennett's got what it takes.

Can go to bed happier. Night all.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:31 pm

@SunPolitics: YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour and Tories tied: CON 34%, LAB 34%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%, GRN 5%

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:32 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Watched it on delay thanks to puppy playing having a mad half hour!
My thoughts.
Miliband did well, especially against Sturgeon. Audience appeared very anti Ed? Wood and Bennett were very poor this time. Novelty worn off?
Ed was playing the nice uncle who you would like to be a little more generous. His lines weren't going to excite a very left wing audience. He was warmly received which was about what he could have expected.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:32 pm

Cameron is basically screwed on the back of that.

Even if the Greens get a small spike in the polls, it will last a few days. What will stick in the mind are those scenes of Miliband looking in charge and having the others ask him what he would do.

The Sturgeon Miliband dynamic was pretty good, they mostly ignored each other. The argument with the SNP is in Scotland, not Westminster. 90% of the population are not interested.

They both hammered Farage, who will gain a boost from turning up.

Cameron was relying on Miliband getting hammered by the Greens and the Nats, that didn't happen. What it did do was make him look like a PM, putting him on a pedestal.

Plus as a bonus Miliband had Farage on toast all night, and he avoided being dragged leftwards.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:32 pm

frightful_oik wrote:3rd 'random' audience member thinks EM was crap. And first listener is a kipper and second thinks Farage was best. Jeez!

They called it the spin room for a reason...

Tish · Post by **Tish** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:32 pm

I've only just finished watching the debate, what with children and their tea, and their requests for stories, but I thought Ed stormed it. Apart from the last question on coalitions, which turned into a bit of a shoutfest, I thought he came across as the only sensible option. Nicola Sturgeoun wasn't nearly as good as last time, Farage looked like he was going to explode at any minute, and Wood and Bennett drifted into insignificance. I'm just going to start reading what everyone else's thought were but initial thoughts, result!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:32 pm

citizenJA wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
refitman wrote:Thanks to everyone for mbm-ing the debate. I decided to watch Layer Cake instead and feel much better for it.
You missed Ed looking like the PM. Everybody kept asking him what he was going to do.
I particularly loved the part when all of the party leaders declared their animosity for any future Tory government.

The Tory-led coalition government of the last five years decided not to attend tonight's job interview with the people they're asking to represent for the next five years. They've lied about their reason for not showing tonight. They've lied about their accomplishments during the last five years. No, this isn't how all governments behave. The UK Tory-LibDem coalition government of 2010-2015 will stand out for it's total disregard for truth, justice & fairness evidenced on a daily basis, pretty much doing whatever the hell they've wanted & making up stories about it all for the full five years. They act as though they own the country & people & may treat them both like a personal possession.

I'm shocked by Dave's behaviour. When the Tories aren't returned to government in a few weeks, I ask what the plan is when Dave 'declines to accept that'? It's likely he'll stagger a bit as he's done in the past & then say the words, 'I get it, I get that...' & go away.

I'm pretty sure the Tories know they won't get in...What they are doing though - and it's shameful - is stirring the waters and making sure the chaos they keep warning us about will, if we're not careful, happen.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:35 pm

yahyah wrote:More @Survation Would make best PM?
Miliband - 43%
Farage - 26%
Sturgeon - 25%
Bennett - 3%
Wood - 3%

So not even all Greens think Bennett's got what it takes.

Can go to bed happier. Night all.

That is a big win on the most important question.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:36 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Cameron is basically screwed on the back of that.

Even if the Greens get a small spike in the polls, it will last a few days. What will stick in the mind are those scenes of Miliband looking in charge and having the others ask him what he would do.

The Sturgeon Miliband dynamic was pretty good, they mostly ignored each other. The argument with the SNP is in Scotland, not Westminster. 90% of the population are not interested.

They both hammered Farage, who will gain a boost from turning up.

Cameron was relying on Miliband getting hammered by the Greens and the Nats, that didn't happen. What it did do was make him look like a PM, putting him on a pedestal.

Plus as a bonus Miliband had Farage on toast all night, and he avoided being dragged leftwards.

Yes they were saying 'Why won't you work with us?' I don't blame him for digging his heels in. Sturgeon is wiley. Another smooth tongued politician. I don't trust 'em.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:37 pm

Survation: Miliband wins on 35%

Edit to add: Sorry for the very late 'snap'...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:39 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
diGriz wrote:
— Nick Clegg (@nick_clegg)
April 16, 2015

I'll debate with you @Ed_Miliband, even if @David_Cameron won't. Any time, any place, anywhere. #BBCDebate pic.twitter.com/GWc6JGBVYk
Desperate.
Talk to the hand Nick, the face doesn't want to know.

What an arse, he could probably have gate crashed the event.

There was nothing that could have legally prevented Nick Clegg from showing up; he decided not to attend. Like his last five years as Deputy PM of the UK, choices Nick decided to make put too many people in the country in unnecessary pain though alternative existed for him to mitigate that suffering. Just join the Tory party, Nick.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:40 pm

Ukip voter in spin room disappointed in Farage. Said it was a poor show that he once again made the HIV patient comments. Also said he's now re-thinking who gets his vote.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:40 pm

PorFavor wrote:Thanks, everyone.

Goodnight.

Night PF

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:41 pm

yahyah wrote:More @Survation Would make best PM?
Miliband - 43%
Farage - 26%
Sturgeon - 25%
Bennett - 3%
Wood - 3%

So not even all Greens think Bennett's got what it takes.

Can go to bed happier. Night all.

Goodnight, Yahyah.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:45 pm

At last: the next caller is a kipper. The big question is do the BBC screen these people? If not, they should. If so, they should be ashamed of themselves.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:46 pm

Spacedone wrote:

Nigel Farage as Billy No Mates...

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:48 pm

According to someone on UKPR:

James Landale has called the Challengers Debate for the Tories on the 10 o’clock BBC News tonight

FFS!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:51 pm

I'm reading they had Hunt in the spin room ....

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:51 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I particularly loved the part when all of the party leaders declared their animosity for any future Tory government.

The Tory-led coalition government of the last five years decided not to attend tonight's job interview with the people they're asking to represent for the next five years. They've lied about their reason for not showing tonight. They've lied about their accomplishments during the last five years. No, this isn't how all governments behave. The UK Tory-LibDem coalition government of 2010-2015 will stand out for it's total disregard for truth, justice & fairness evidenced on a daily basis, pretty much doing whatever the hell they've wanted & making up stories about it all for the full five years. They act as though they own the country & people & may treat them both like a personal possession.

I'm shocked by Dave's behaviour. When the Tories aren't returned to government in a few weeks, I ask what the plan is when Dave 'declines to accept that'? It's likely he'll stagger a bit as he's done in the past & then say the words, 'I get it, I get that...' & go away.
I'm pretty sure the Tories know they won't get in...What they are doing though - and it's shameful - is stirring the waters and making sure the chaos they keep warning us about will, if we're not careful, happen.
There's potentially one very big fly in the ointment though: voter registration. Registration is down significantly in some areas, particularly key marginals and student towns apparently. I can see the Tories doing better than projected on this basis.

Maybe, but pollsters will use the register for sampling. Many not registered probably didn't vote, especially automatically registered students.

We should have an American system of being able to register on the day.