Thursday 16th April 2015

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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

LadyCentauria wrote:Remind me, are Plaid Cymru expected to get any MPs? Wood and Bennett now both claiming that Labour will not challenge austerity. That's not my reading of the Labour Manifesto or its intent.
The usual handful, but nothing more. Two of their seats (Carmarthen E and Arfon) are long shot Labour targets.
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ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Ed has a message for Dave. Debate me one on one.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

WelshIan wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:When they're all promising except Farage that is...they won't prop up a Tory government the audience claps.
and the way to do that is to vote Labour. A Labour majority definitely means no Tory government. I hope Scottish voters think about this - a vote for Labour is a vote directly against a Tory government, a vote for the SNP gives the Tories a possibility of forming a government.
If they don't think about it, and let the Tories in...the idiots will have 5 years to suffer the consequences. Trouble is, so will the rest of us.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

LadyCentauria wrote:Remind me, are Plaid Cymru expected to get any MPs? Wood and Bennett now both claiming that Labour will not challenge austerity. That's not my reading of the Labour Manifesto or its intent.
Arfon
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Isabel Oakeshott ‏@IsabelOakeshott 1m1 minute ago
I think @Ed_Miliband will be pretty pleased with that
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ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Did I hear that right? Dave, Clegg and Ed. a question time?
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
yahyah
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Was watching a recording of SuperVet before that, seeing poor little critters being operated on was less painful.
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LadyCentauria
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by LadyCentauria »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:Remind me, are Plaid Cymru expected to get any MPs? Wood and Bennett now both claiming that Labour will not challenge austerity. That's not my reading of the Labour Manifesto or its intent.
The usual handful, but nothing more. Two of their seats (Carmarthen E and Arfon) are long shot Labour targets.
Thanks, Anatoly. It'd slipped my mind whether they had one or two or more and whether they were under any threat from challengers.

Oh and the Tories have sent William Hague to the spin room. He's the first to be interviewed.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by Spacedone »

ohsocynical wrote:My connection keeps on failing so I've missed the row that had started between Sturgeon and Ed. She got a good reception when she said Ed was being obstructive when it comes to getting rid of the Tories when he said no to a coalition with SNP.
She was being massively disingenuous. Ed said that he disagreed with the SNP wanting another independence referendum, Sturgeon refuted that and said that this election was about stopping the Tories... which if that is the case then why are the SNP imposing conditions on their support for a Labour government? Without the SNP Cameron would be toast already.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Fucking hell Haigs on now. Getting Cameron out of it. Says people warm to Cam when they see him. Says it will be chaos....
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by Spacedone »

Tim Montgomerie ن ‏@montie 5 mins5 minutes ago
That was Ed Miliband's best moment: Challenging Cameron to a head-to-head #BBCDebate
Spin that.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Haig said Sturgeon wants to be in the driving seat. presenter did point out Ed said no.

Now he's saying more houses being built than at any time for 20 years.

He's doing Camerons job....
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by citizenJA »

ephemerid wrote:I am also fascinated by the Tories wheeze of trundling people out in turn.

We've had them sent out one by one to do the various radio and TV shows, with today seemingly being Truss again (and a more vapid stupid giggly eejit I've yet to see) but so far no sign of IDS or Fester McVile.

Given how odd the Crosby campaign has been so far, I'm wondering if they're keeping them for the last hurrah before the voting starts. Like, a last-ditch reminder that Labour equals more "welfare" etc.etc.

Crosby, IMHO, does not understand that not only do Brits dislike bullying, they end up championing the underdog if the nastiness goes too far. The more they beat up Miliband, and the more he deals with it with his usual dignity and humour, the worse it looks.
Also, the soundbites are getting very wearisome, aren't they? Longtermeconomicplan, hardworkingfamilies, doingtherightthing...and for the past few days chaos here, chaos there, chaos bloody everywhere. It's really boring.

I'll tune in tonight to see how it goes, but I might not last long. I don't think I can cope with Dimbleby and his patronising bias any more.
I certainly won't watch that thing with Maitlis. Can't stand her.

I'm sick of the lies. I wish it was all over. Cameron is driving me to all manner of evil thoughts and I can do without them. :-((
You're exactly right regarding Crosby. Behaviour & norms are profoundly different in the UK compared to the AU (& the US, Canada, NZ). I've thought this countless times just as you've written. It's a failure on his part. I'm sorry for the time none of us will get back again. I look forward to greater shared prosperity & justice soon.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:Remind me, are Plaid Cymru expected to get any MPs? Wood and Bennett now both claiming that Labour will not challenge austerity. That's not my reading of the Labour Manifesto or its intent.
The usual handful, but nothing more. Two of their seats (Carmarthen E and Arfon) are long shot Labour targets.
You reckon Mark Williams will hang on in Ceredigion then? I thought this is the new seat where Plaid fancy their chances.
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ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

This is disgraceful They're allowing Hague to refute or defend every thing that was said in the debate.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Paul Mason ‏@paulmasonnews 3m3 minutes ago
Seriously this so called "spin room" seems to be populated by the BBC and the parties who boycotted the debate - why?
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by gilsey »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Allegra Stratton ‏@BBCAllegra 3m3 minutes ago
Ed Miliband has had a pretty good night. David Cameron really should have been here. This makes this election even more interesting.
On Tuesday night Allegra said the Tory manifesto was better than Labour's.
I can see how you could think that if you'd been living in, say, Siberia for 5 years, but otherwise?
So I prefer to ignore her.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by Spacedone »

Paul Mason ‏@paulmasonnews 4 mins4 minutes ago
Seriously this so called "spin room" seems to be populated by the BBC and the parties who boycotted the debate - why?
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

tinyclanger2 wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:Remind me, are Plaid Cymru expected to get any MPs? Wood and Bennett now both claiming that Labour will not challenge austerity. That's not my reading of the Labour Manifesto or its intent.
Arfon
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I believe

I still think Ceredigion could fall to Plaid, even after their candidate's bad time in the press last week.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

ohsocynical wrote:Did I hear that right? Dave, Clegg and Ed. a question time?
Yes, in a fortnight IIRC.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Hague told the BBC just now that it was the broadcasters who decided not to invite Cameron. That is disingenuous; Cameron was not invited because he said he would refuse point-blank to come.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... ebate-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pure scum
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ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Mmm. presenter speaking to an SNP he more or less admitted they want to prop up Labour and then when they've got their feet under the table give it four years, and then 'Sock it to them'

Sure I got that right....
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LadyCentauria
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by LadyCentauria »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Did I hear that right? Dave, Clegg and Ed. a question time?
Yes, in a fortnight IIRC.
Yes but not on the stage together, at the same time. Same audience but separate appearances from the leaders.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

mail wrote:Ed Miliband receives a hailstorm of criticism in TV debate
more scum
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ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Hague told the BBC just now that it was the broadcasters who decided not to invite Cameron. That is disingenuous; Cameron was not invited because he said he would refuse point-blank to come.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... ebate-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pure scum
Alexander just said Cameron banned them from taking part in the debate.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

ohsocynical wrote:Mmm. presenter speaking to an SNP he more or less admitted they want to prop up Labour and then when they've got their feet under the table give it four years, and then 'Sock it to them'

Sure I got that right....
Nobody is watching the spin room.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Andrew Neil @afneil · 31m 31 minutes ago
Sturgeon says she will never, never do deal with Tories. Must mean Westminster. Has happened in Holyrood.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

May2015 Election ‏@May2015NS · 2m2 minutes ago
Joe Twyman of YouGov, left, tells @adamboultonSKY that it was "Mission accomplished" for Miliband tonight #bbcdebate
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Sunny Hundal
‏@sunny_hundal
Tory MP Liz Truss having to defend Cameron's non-show from journalists
Take a look at the Vine that goes with that tweet. Very cheeky journalist ... 'Do you think we saw the real David Cameron tonight?' and so on.
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ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Mmm. presenter speaking to an SNP he more or less admitted they want to prop up Labour and then when they've got their feet under the table give it four years, and then 'Sock it to them'

Sure I got that right....
Nobody is watching the spin room.
They should! Mind you, I'm so angry it's hurting.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by Spacedone »

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yahyah
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Tories are tweeting a screen shot of Bennett shrieking at Ed, Farage with his mouth open & Sturgeon looking on, labelled it 'Coalition of Chaos'.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by refitman »

Thanks to everyone for mbm-ing the debate. I decided to watch Layer Cake instead and feel much better for it.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Indie's political editor:

Jane Merrick @janemerrick23 · 4m 4 minutes ago
I thought Nicola Sturgeon won the last debate but not tonight. Saying "don't turn your back on it" to Miliband was over-playing her hand
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

refitman wrote:Thanks to everyone for mbm-ing the debate. I decided to watch Layer Cake instead and feel much better for it.
You missed Ed looking like the PM. Everybody kept asking him what he was going to do.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Andrew Neil @afneil · 3m 3 minutes ago
Guardian's Andrew Sparrow: "There was hint of pleading in Sturgeon’s pitch at the end, and Miliband seemed to be in the stronger position.

But you can see how the Tories will capitalise on the 'Coalition of Chaos' theme with
Jeremy Hunt saying viewers had chance by Cameron not being there "to see what lab coalition would look like.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Any polls yet ?
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by frightful_oik »

5Live interviewed 2 'random' members of the audience. Both kippers :smack:
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by pk1 »

Had to admit I watched the debate, full of trepidation. Happily I think Ed did just fine.

The yougov daily app had an instant reaction poll:
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pk1
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by pk1 »

yahyah wrote:Any polls yet ?
Think it's only Survation that is doing one.

Andrew is blogging about Twitter reactions but frankly, that's a piss poor indication because had I been tweeting instead of listening, I would have given EM the win every time he opened his mouth :lol:
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Sunny Hundal ‏@sunny_hundal 30m30 minutes ago
Journalist to Tory MP Liz Truss in spin room: "Do you think David Cameron's personality shone through tonight?" Others snigger
Sorry, but it was absolutely delicious ...
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by diGriz »

From AS
And here is some more Twitter sentiment analysis. It was conducted around half time, and it is from Demos, Qlik, the University of Sussex, and Ipsos MORI.

It suggests that Nicola Sturgeon and Ed Miliband are the winners.

Here are the net approval ratings - cheers (positive tweets) minus boos (negative ones).

Sturgeon: +68

Miliband: +58

Wood: +42

Bennett: +36

Farage: -12

For what it’s worth, this survey also looked at the two empty chairs: the Tories and the Lib Dems.

The Lib Dems were on +2.

But the Tories were on -42.
Last edited by diGriz on Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by pk1 »

Polly Toynbee as reported on Andrews blog:
What a risk he took. They warned Ed Miliband was making a grave error to join a line-up of the second division. Instead he stood there as the only prime minister in the room – and one the great loser was the man who wasn’t there. Attack after attack rained down on the Tories, but their leader had run from the field. Killer punch line, addressed to Cameron - “If you think this election is about leadership come and debate me – Let the people decide.”
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Polly Toynbee;

'His deadly opponent was Nicola Surgeon. He could have been easy meat for her deft jibes, but with a powerful defence of the union he more than survived: he might even have retrieved some Scottish votes.

Miliband’s team will be rightly delighted. At every outing he grows in strength and confidence.'
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

David Axelrod ‏@davidaxelrod 6m6 minutes ago
Strong, confident debate for @Ed_Miliband-the only plausible alternative to 5 more years of top down, Tory economics. And where WAS Cameron?
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by diGriz »

So I'm guessing CCHQ will be voting Sturgeon like crazy on the polls tonight.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by danesclose »

yahyah wrote:Polly Toynbee;

'His deadly opponent was Nicola Surgeon. He could have been easy meat for her deft jibes, but with a powerful defence of the union he more than survived: he might even have retrieved some Scottish votes.

Miliband’s team will be rightly delighted. At every outing he grows in strength and confidence.'
Just had a look at the Telegraph site. Guess who DFH thought was the winner ?
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by diGriz »

— Nick Clegg (@nick_clegg)
April 16, 2015

I'll debate with you @Ed_Miliband, even if @David_Cameron won't. Any time, any place, anywhere. #BBCDebate pic.twitter.com/GWc6JGBVYk
Desperate.
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by WelshIan »

yahyah wrote:Have only just been watching it for 10 minutes and it feels to me that Ed is having a hard time from the audience.

Bennett, to my husband comes across as a harridan, & to me as a stupid moo.
If she were genuinely a left winger she would have been supporting Ed when he said that Farage had wanted an insurance system for the NHS. Instead she was shrieking at Ed.
Now she is trying amateur dramatics - what a shocker she is. Oh, lord she used the 'hope' word.
Aaarggghhhhh !!!

As for Ms anti-austerity Wood, her party find no problem cutting local services where I live, so what a hypocrite.

As for the BBC, in a country where Labour are polling over 30% it seems mighty bizarre they can't find an audience to reflect that.
Leanne Wood, Natalie Bennett and Nicola Sturgeon all said some socialist, left wing things whereas Ed was more towards the centre. That may be why he seemed to have more of a hard time? Any left leaning audience member may have been more encouraged by what they said than Ed? It's not often that the majority of views in this sort of discussion are on the left.
I thought the 3 women did reasonably well, Ed was good and Farage was nowhere. It was telling that when answering one of the questions, all of them received applause except Farage. His views did not go down well at all.

I thought Nicola Sturgeon didn't end very well, though - saying the main thing is to get rid of the Tory gov. As I said above, why vote SNP in that case?
Ed ended well, he looked relaxed and in control. A small thing, but I liked that he leaned on the lectern in front of him - it seemed a more engaged, personal chat somehow. Ed was not looking for my vote with that performance - he was pitching at the middle England vote, taking votes from the Tories, so of course some of what he said was not to my taste, I preferred what the women had to say.

Plaid in local government - when they were in power in Caerphilly (from around 2007-11, I think), they cut services too, and refused to put up Council Tax to try and mitigate some cuts. They actually campaigned on how successful they'd been in not putting it up, my local councillor seemed surprised to hear the alternative view that some cuts would not have happened if more money had been raised from Council Tax!
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Re: Thursday 16th April 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

danesclose wrote:
yahyah wrote:Polly Toynbee;

'His deadly opponent was Nicola Surgeon. He could have been easy meat for her deft jibes, but with a powerful defence of the union he more than survived: he might even have retrieved some Scottish votes.

Miliband’s team will be rightly delighted. At every outing he grows in strength and confidence.'
Just had a look at the Telegraph site. Guess who DFH thought was the winner ?
Cameron?? :lol:
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