Friday 17th April 2015

[SpinningHugo]

I remain a tad sceptical of the Scottish polling, but if the SNP *do* get a (near) clean sweep next month then I think a PM Miliband could do worse than give Scotland FFA and be done with it. Let's see how well Nat support holds up when they, finally, can't blame everybody but themselves for *everything*

What are the odds, I wonder, on Labour winning a majority of English/Welsh seats whilst missing out on an OM due to Scotland? Might be worth a punt, tbh.

The Scottish polling is too uniform, and too strong in one direction, for me to be very sceptical.

On FFA, I'd *love* it if we gave the Nats that, but Salmond is far too canny too accept it.

I am minded to agree with Martin Woolf on Scotland

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/105f62f4-e1d0 ... z3XURrCZpH" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it really is the case that Scotland is now just going to keep returning banks of Nats as MPs, the time may have come to reluctantly say goodbye.

[citizenJA]

All charges dropped against Andy Coulson.
What the hell is up with that?

[citizenJA]

The decision came after a review forced on the CPS by an appeal court ruling last month that questioned prosecutors’ use of the charge of conspiracy to commit misconduct in public office – an ancient common law offence – to pursue journalists.

...the lord chief justice, Lord Thomas, said the trial judge, Charles Wide, had misdirected the jury by not telling them that the threshold for a conviction was high. He said jurors had to be satisfied that the actions amounted not just to a disciplinary breach but had done harm to the public interest in order to convict.

The ruling forced the CPS to review the remaining 12 pending trials and retrials of journalists. Lawyers for the CPS contacted the journalists on Friday to tell them they would be offering no evidence in nine of the cases. The decision came on the same day a jury at the Old Bailey acquitted another three reporters of paying public officials for information.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... ropped-dpp

[AnatolyKasparov]

I think it is now obvious that, barring something almost unimaginable, the SNP are going to make big gains. But there are a striking number of anecdotal accounts from north of the border re "shy unionists" and non-SNP people preferring to keep their heads down rather than risk abuse, it is hard to overstate how poisonous the climate up there has become for many (and given that Ashcroft's polls are phone surveys, they might well be affected by this)

The one thing about the secret ballot is that, as last September showed, the CyberNats can't rig it. Yet......

[tinyclanger2]

I don't mean to bring the mood here down, and I appreciate others are more sanguine. But I see no reason for not being realistic. I fear too many people are mistaking what they want to happen for what they think will happen.

I'm afraid I agree. I have been going on about Scotland for two years, and kept getting the comment that a Labour majority has never required Scotland, as if history would somehow trump maths. I don't know what the Scots are on, but my relationship with them is irrevocably changed.

[SpinningHugo]

I fear another factor than the SNP could defeat Labour, and that's voter registration. It could well lose Labour the handful of marginals it needs to squeak past the Conservatives as largest party.

That is a big risk. The voter registration scandal, and it is a scandal, will deliver the Tories some seats. maybe just one or two, but in a tight race that might have been enough.

I think we'll get them out. Make no mistake, that is important. The Tory fiscal plan is mad. They have lots and lots of policies that are just insane (the housing one this week, human rights, the EU, social security). Their not being in government is, in itself, a big win.

[SpinningHugo]

I think it is now obvious that, barring something almost unimaginable, the SNP are going to make big gains. But there are a striking number of anecdotal accounts from north of the border re "shy unionists" and non-SNP people preferring to keep their heads down rather than risk abuse, it is hard to overstate how poisonous the climate up there has become for many (and given that Ashcroft's polls are phone surveys, they might well be affected by this)

The one thing about the secret ballot is that, as last September showed, the CyberNats can't rig it. Yet......

The indy ref polls were pretty accurate as things turned out. A couple of points out at most.

I think that is a straw you are clutching at.

[AnatolyKasparov]

And without wanting to appear Pollyanna-ish, I'm not convinced the reported drop in registered voters amounts to that much:

1) many will be part of the 35% who didn't vote last time, and had no intention of doing so next month either - whilst others (an indeterminate number, but significant) will be "phantom" voters who never really existed at all or (esp in inner city areas) moved away several years ago;

2) there have been major registration drives in recent weeks, both by political parties (esp Labour) and pressure groups which seem to have had at least some success - so the quoted figures may already be out of date.

Oh, and anybody here who hasn't made sure they can vote yet - you've got until Monday

[letsskiptotheleft]

For long now we have been told how strong the Scottish economy is, the Scottish brand, it's people, ok, fair enough, good luck to them, and then at the same time be told they deserve a better financial settlement than other areas of the country, my pig-shit thick grasp of economics can't marry the two up unfortunately. I agree with Anatoly, give them FFA, but my guess is when the time came they would step hastily back?

On a lighter note I took a drive to Merthyr Tydfil earlier, UKIP at one time had their eyes on the seat, helped along by some over-generous reporting, heartened to see a row of kipper posters torn down and dumped by a fence, I don't of course condone litter, tut, tut.

[letsskiptotheleft]

119,000 have registered to vote in the last 24 hours, God knows who it benefits mind?

1 1/2 million in the last five weeks apparently..

[AnatolyKasparov]

I think it is now obvious that, barring something almost unimaginable, the SNP are going to make big gains. But there are a striking number of anecdotal accounts from north of the border re "shy unionists" and non-SNP people preferring to keep their heads down rather than risk abuse, it is hard to overstate how poisonous the climate up there has become for many (and given that Ashcroft's polls are phone surveys, they might well be affected by this)

The one thing about the secret ballot is that, as last September showed, the CyberNats can't rig it. Yet......

The indy ref polls were pretty accurate as things turned out. A couple of points out at most.

I thing that is a straw you are clutching at.

Nah, I'm not denying it looks grim.

But a referendum is not the same as a normal election, and even then polls tended to overstate "yes" a tad.

And their is sadly little doubt that the general climate in much of Scotland since then has become more unhealthy and oppressive, not less.

As a certain person likes to say in the other place, we shall see......

[TechnicalEphemera]

I think it is now obvious that, barring something almost unimaginable, the SNP are going to make big gains. But there are a striking number of anecdotal accounts from north of the border re "shy unionists" and non-SNP people preferring to keep their heads down rather than risk abuse, it is hard to overstate how poisonous the climate up there has become for many (and given that Ashcroft's polls are phone surveys, they might well be affected by this)

The one thing about the secret ballot is that, as last September showed, the CyberNats can't rig it. Yet......

The indy ref polls were pretty accurate as things turned out. A couple of points out at most.

I thing that is a straw you are clutching at.

They weren't that accurate, and the situation is even more toxic up there. I think Labour will do better than some of the polling suggests, but not that much better. I think some of the tight SNP/Lab contests will stay Labour but again not that many.

[TechnicalEphemera]

119,000 have registered to vote in the last 24 hours, God knows who it benefits mind?

1 1/2 million in the last five weeks apparently..

It benefits Labour massively. The Tory demographic (people like me) were auto registered months ago.

[55DegreesNorth]

I think it is now obvious that, barring something almost unimaginable, the SNP are going to make big gains. But there are a striking number of anecdotal accounts from north of the border re "shy unionists" and non-SNP people preferring to keep their heads down rather than risk abuse, it is hard to overstate how poisonous the climate up there has become for many (and given that Ashcroft's polls are phone surveys, they might well be affected by this)

The one thing about the secret ballot is that, as last September showed, the CyberNats can't rig it. Yet......

I've just been talking to some friends kids who are students in Scotland. All 4 said that before and since the ref, the aggressive and intrusive questions from the Nats about how they planned to, or did, vote means they all lie. & either say they can't be arsed, or tell them Yes/SNP to shut them up.
They were confident that a lot of people will be doing the same thing.

Regarding Voter reg, Mrs55 has lived at this address for 29 years & been on the electoral register and voted in every local & national election. She's just received a request to verify her identity, independently witnessed & supply copies of eg Passport & driving licence. When she asked why, she was told they couldn't divulge that information. I wonder how many other people have had this?

[55DegreesNorth]

Edited to remove double post. My adblocker seems to Bork posting to this forum.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Indeed, and it is overwhelmingly non-Tories who have been leading the registration campaigns.

This, of course, is no coincidence - the move to IER was such a shibboleth for the coalition because they thought it would rig things in their favour, not so much at the coming GE (though that would have been nice for them) but when the next boundary review at Westminster takes place.

Combine that with a rigid quota for electorate per constituency (as in the abortive review this past parliament) and that is a big steer against Labour.

Or so they thought......

[LadyCentauria]

Evenin' all

Off to a hustings meeting in Putney. We have a tough battle to fight here, against an incumbent Minister in the shape of Justine Greening (Conservative), but I hope our Labour PPC, Sheila Boswell, can improve greatly upon our share of the vote last time. Of course, I'd love to see another Portillo-moment – in my heart-of-hearts – or another David Mellor moment, to put it in local terms! Catch you all later

[ohsocynical]

I remain a tad sceptical of the Scottish polling, but if the SNP *do* get a (near) clean sweep next month then I think a PM Miliband could do worse than give Scotland FFA and be done with it. Let's see how well Nat support holds up when they, finally, can't blame everybody but themselves for *everything*

What are the odds, I wonder, on Labour winning a majority of English/Welsh seats whilst missing out on an OM due to Scotland? Might be worth a punt, tbh.

Yup. Cast them out. I didn't have a solid opinion either way when Indy ref was going on. Could see both sides of the argument, but now? Well, they feel nice and safe. Hold sway over Labour while they still get the extra subsidies from the rest of the UK. It's the perfect solution for the time being.

Despite Sturgeons 'Who Moi?' and the astonished 'what are you on about? look on her face last night when Ed mentioned Independence, you'd have to be deaf dumb and blind not to know how her/their mind is working.

Also last night after the debate, [don't know if anyone else caught it] but a Scottish SNP when pressed more or less admitted they'd cosy up to Labour for a bit and then - I assume if something crucial cropped up and Labour needed their support - put the demand in.
Ed is against breaking up the union, but I hope if it comes to them or us, he'll do the right thing especially if they start to drag us down.

I feel sorry for those that will suffer if setting them loose happens and a lot of them will, but by God we're suffering a bloody sight worse. If they want to play the every man for himself game, then so be it.

[ohsocynical]

I think it is now obvious that, barring something almost unimaginable, the SNP are going to make big gains. But there are a striking number of anecdotal accounts from north of the border re "shy unionists" and non-SNP people preferring to keep their heads down rather than risk abuse, it is hard to overstate how poisonous the climate up there has become for many (and given that Ashcroft's polls are phone surveys, they might well be affected by this)

The one thing about the secret ballot is that, as last September showed, the CyberNats can't rig it. Yet......

I've just been talking to some friends kids who are students in Scotland. All 4 said that before and since the ref, the aggressive and intrusive questions from the Nats about how they planned to, or did, vote means they all lie. & either say they can't be arsed, or tell them Yes/SNP to shut them up.
They were confident that a lot of people will be doing the same thing.

Regarding Voter reg, Mrs55 has lived at this address for 29 years & been on the electoral register and voted in every local & national election. She's just received a request to verify her identity, independently witnessed & supply copies of eg Passport & driving licence. When she asked why, she was told they couldn't divulge that information. I wonder how many other people have had this?

That doesn't sound right....

[citizenJA]

I think it is now obvious that, barring something almost unimaginable, the SNP are going to make big gains. But there are a striking number of anecdotal accounts from north of the border re "shy unionists" and non-SNP people preferring to keep their heads down rather than risk abuse, it is hard to overstate how poisonous the climate up there has become for many (and given that Ashcroft's polls are phone surveys, they might well be affected by this)

The one thing about the secret ballot is that, as last September showed, the CyberNats can't rig it. Yet......

I've just been talking to some friends kids who are students in Scotland. All 4 said that before and since the ref, the aggressive and intrusive questions from the Nats about how they planned to, or did, vote means they all lie. & either say they can't be arsed, or tell them Yes/SNP to shut them up.
They were confident that a lot of people will be doing the same thing.

Regarding Voter reg, Mrs55 has lived at this address for 29 years & been on the electoral register and voted in every local & national election. She's just received a request to verify her identity, independently witnessed & supply copies of eg Passport & driving licence. When she asked why, she was told they couldn't divulge that information. I wonder how many other people have had this?

That doesn't sound right....

No, it does not. I'm alarmed.

[pk1]

Meridian News show Tories parked across disabled bays outside a McDonalds:

[AnatolyKasparov]

Though FFA isn't actually breaking up the union, it would be calling the SNP's bluff. How can they possibly object when they wanted full independence by next year?

As far as Robert's thoughtful post above is concerned, for me a key moment was after the 2007 Holyrood elections and Labour losing power there - when Wendy Alexander, who realised Scottish Labour needed to change or face peril, was caught up in a totally trivial manufactured "scandal". Instead of giving her his full support, PM Brown made the fateful decision to let her twist in the wind - after all, she had this annoying habit of thinking for herself - and got his obedient crony Iain Gray in to replace her. Only problem was, he proved one of the direst and most hopeless "leaders" of any significant party in recent times (we are talking sub-Natalie Bennett or IDS level here, think Tom Elliott or Lord Pearson)

Johann Lamont was better than him, but that alone was never going to be enough. And her flounce after being forced out was unforgivable - if Alex Salmond was scripting her response himself, I don't think it would have been much different

In the longer term, assuming the union *does* have any sort of future, the "Bavarianisation" of SLab (and indeed the Scottish Tories and LibDems) looks like the way to go - there is already an effectively seperate Scottish Green party, after all.......

[yahyah]

I'll be careful how I phrase this...but in my defence I've seen 45%ers claim English Labour voters have mince for brains so I may not hold back. No insult meant to anyone over the border or with relatives there.

If a mass of Scots get taken up with the Sturgeon/SNP mania, they may be shocked and gutted if the Tories get into power as a result of Labour losing seats north of the border.

Sturgeon's been pulling a fast one...saying 'vote for us, we are real lefties, we'll make sure the Tories are kept in check'' If it all goes pear shaped, and the Tories get in in some form or another, the SNP could get a pasting next year at Holyrood.

Little comfort for another 5 years of right wing bastards in power, but there would be some schadenfreude to be had.
The SNP would be shown up for the manipulators they are and those who voted SNP would be shamefaced at their stupidity. Hopefully a nail in the coffin of repulsive nationalism.

[rebeccariots2]

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 9m9 minutes ago
Insightful assessment by @Freedland of potential dispute over the legitimacy of a Miliband minority government. http://gu.com/p/47t6y/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's pretty convinced that Cameron and co will try hard to claim victory if they are the largest party - even if they can't command a majority in the Commons and Labour could - and will use politics and the media to make it nigh on impossible for Miliband to enter no 10.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

I know I'm like a stuck record BUT

Please, please don't pay so much attention to Scotland. That's EXACTLY what Dave and Lynton want us to do. The Tories will probably win no seats there. So, it pays them to stoke up the Labour / SNP battle when BOTH those parties should be aiming firmly at the chaotic, shambolic, evil Coalition who are defending seats mainly in England.

It's Jim Murphy's job plus Scottish Labour sympathisers (a couple here I think) to sort out the Scottish problem. Let's focus on London, the Midlands and Yorkshire where the Tories are potentially in deep trouble I think.

Rant over

[ohsocynical]

Nick Robinson ‏@KipperNick 11h11 hours ago

I must apologise to @Nigel_Farage for the audience at the #BBCDebate last night. We were unable to handpick it for him as we do for #bbcqt

Jim Gallagher ‏@jimgall47 4 mins4 minutes ago
@KipperNick @dimayray @Nigel_Farage And Nick Robinsons not joking either

.

Re the above comment.

A recent Tweet pointed out that UKIPs rise coincided with the BBC featuring them far more times than any other party.

Their drop in the ratings along with less appearances seems to bear that out.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 9m9 minutes ago
Insightful assessment by @Freedland of potential dispute over the legitimacy of a Miliband minority government. http://gu.com/p/47t6y/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's pretty convinced that Cameron and co will try hard to claim victory if they are the largest party - even if they can't command a majority in the Commons and Labour could - and will use politics and the media to make it nigh on impossible for Miliband to enter no 10.

Indeed (and rant not quite over) which is my point exactly. The Tories will get approximately zero votes in Scotland. We need to make sure they get as few as possible elsewhere.

Rant really over now

[Willow904]

I don't mean to bring the mood here down, and I appreciate others are more sanguine. But I see no reason for not being realistic. I fear too many people are mistaking what they want to happen for what they think will happen.

I'm afraid I agree. I have been going on about Scotland for two years, and kept getting the comment that a Labour majority has never required Scotland, as if history would somehow trump maths. I don't know what the Scots are on, but my relationship with them is irrevocably changed.

Indeed. We're not living in history any more. Circumstances are different to how they were for most of the time since the Second World War.

I admit the Scottish situation has taken me by surprise. In hindsight, the mood in Scotland towards Labour has been changing for a while. Maybe it was devolution, maybe it was New Labour, maybe it was just a general drift or a combination of factors, but the Indyref seems to have been a catalyst for lots of things that have been bubbling under the surface. I admit that I was in denial about Scotland for a while, and I think a lot of people still are. I don't see any reason to disbelieve the polls - there have been too many of them and they're too consistent. Lifelong Labour supporters are deserting the party in droves. It reminds me a bit of Cleggmania - people are seeing in the SNP all the things they want Labour to be. Time will tell whether they suffer a Clegg-style disappointment and return, or whether they're gone for good. I feel that the SNP is cannier than the LibDems were/are, and won't let themselves be associated with a Tory government even if they effectively enable it.

Before the debates, the Libdems were polling very slightly below where they ended up on election day, after the debates they polled consistently higher than their end result, with only one single, solitary poll between the last debate and the election getting it right as a prediction. So although the SNP are obviously going to do very well, I'm not inclined to rely on the polls as an accurate prediction of what their final percentage of the vote will be. To quote Donald Rumsfeld, it's a known unknown. We know we don't know how the polls will translate into votes because we have no historical data to guide us.

I would personally be very disappointed if the SNP get a clean sweep, because then Rupert Murdoch will have won. Without a majority, Labour can't hope to implement the Leveson recommendations in full or restrict press ownership to prevent too much power becoming concentrated in one person's hands. In hedging his bets over the Scottish referendum, Murdoch has shown that the SNP has always been his fall back plan if Cameron didn't appear up to the job of heading off the Miliband threat to his extensive media influence. I don't understand why Scottish voters would prefer a party that is clearly in the pocket of the wealthy elite over Ed, who clearly isn't, as the negative press he gets amply illustrates. If Ed wins, he'll owe it to no one but himself and the voters who put him there. It's a unique opportunity and it's hard not to resent the Scottish for squandering it, but there you go. If the elite weren't good at manipulating the masses they'd have been facing the chop a long time ago.

On a slightly more positive note, I think it could take the Tory party a really long time to recover from the damage Cameron has managed to inflict on it. I suspect post May 7th they'll be a few more Tory voices adding to Ken Clarke's criticism of his direction of travel.

[ohsocynical]

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 9m9 minutes ago
Insightful assessment by @Freedland of potential dispute over the legitimacy of a Miliband minority government. http://gu.com/p/47t6y/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's pretty convinced that Cameron and co will try hard to claim victory if they are the largest party - even if they can't command a majority in the Commons and Labour could - and will use politics and the media to make it nigh on impossible for Miliband to enter no 10.

That's what he's going to do. They'll do anything to stay in power. And Labour know it.

[tinyclanger2]

I know I'm like a stuck record BUT

Please, please don't pay so much attention to Scotland. That's EXACTLY what Dave and Lynton want us to do. The Tories will probably win no seats there. So, it pays them to stoke up the Labour / SNP battle when BOTH those parties should be aiming firmly at the chaotic, shambolic, evil Coalition who are defending seats mainly in England.

It's Jim Murphy's job plus Scottish Labour sympathisers (a couple here I think) to sort out the Scottish problem. Let's focus on London, the Midlands and Yorkshire where the Tories are potentially in deep trouble I think.

Rant over

sorry. It irks me so.
(shamefaced emoticon)

[yahyah]

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 9m9 minutes ago
Insightful assessment by @Freedland of potential dispute over the legitimacy of a Miliband minority government. http://gu.com/p/47t6y/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's pretty convinced that Cameron and co will try hard to claim victory if they are the largest party - even if they can't command a majority in the Commons and Labour could - and will use politics and the media to make it nigh on impossible for Miliband to enter no 10.

If that happens there will be riots.

[letsskiptotheleft]

I know I'm like a stuck record BUT

Please, please don't pay so much attention to Scotland. That's EXACTLY what Dave and Lynton want us to do. The Tories will probably win no seats there. So, it pays them to stoke up the Labour / SNP battle when BOTH those parties should be aiming firmly at the chaotic, shambolic, evil Coalition who are defending seats mainly in England.

It's Jim Murphy's job plus Scottish Labour sympathisers (a couple here I think) to sort out the Scottish problem. Let's focus on London, the Midlands and Yorkshire where the Tories are potentially in deep trouble I think.

Rant over

Yes, agree, move on and concentrate on the seats that can be won.

Though, I must say some of the swings in Scotland are mind boggling, and are yet to be seen to be believed.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

I know I'm like a stuck record BUT

Please, please don't pay so much attention to Scotland. That's EXACTLY what Dave and Lynton want us to do. The Tories will probably win no seats there. So, it pays them to stoke up the Labour / SNP battle when BOTH those parties should be aiming firmly at the chaotic, shambolic, evil Coalition who are defending seats mainly in England.

It's Jim Murphy's job plus Scottish Labour sympathisers (a couple here I think) to sort out the Scottish problem. Let's focus on London, the Midlands and Yorkshire where the Tories are potentially in deep trouble I think.

Rant over

sorry. It irks me so.
(shamefaced emoticon)

Irks me too

[pk1]

I've just been talking to some friends kids who are students in Scotland. All 4 said that before and since the ref, the aggressive and intrusive questions from the Nats about how they planned to, or did, vote means they all lie. & either say they can't be arsed, or tell them Yes/SNP to shut them up.
They were confident that a lot of people will be doing the same thing.

Regarding Voter reg, Mrs55 has lived at this address for 29 years & been on the electoral register and voted in every local & national election. She's just received a request to verify her identity, independently witnessed & supply copies of eg Passport & driving licence. When she asked why, she was told they couldn't divulge that information. I wonder how many other people have had this?

Seeing the way some nats have chased Labour MPs around, yelling abuse at them in the street, I too would say SNP just not to become one of their targets.

Who asked her to confirm her ID ? She surely has the right to demand answers from the Council ?

[yahyah]

I'm with Tiny.

Ignoring the SNP in Scotland is not going to make it go away.
The Nats are playing the same tricks here in Wales.
Wouldn't be surprised if they don't try a franchise in England to really hit Labour.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I know I'm like a stuck record BUT

Please, please don't pay so much attention to Scotland. That's EXACTLY what Dave and Lynton want us to do. The Tories will probably win no seats there. So, it pays them to stoke up the Labour / SNP battle when BOTH those parties should be aiming firmly at the chaotic, shambolic, evil Coalition who are defending seats mainly in England.

It's Jim Murphy's job plus Scottish Labour sympathisers (a couple here I think) to sort out the Scottish problem. Let's focus on London, the Midlands and Yorkshire where the Tories are potentially in deep trouble I think.

Rant over

Indeed. While I understand and share the frustration with many here, there are more important battles to fight right now; the SNP and the 45ers may have forgotten who the real enemy are, let's make sure we don't follow their example. Worth remembering too, as I suggested above, that a lot of these wallies don't even live in Scotland so wouldn't have to deal with the consequences if the rest of us cut them loose; easy examples that spring to mind are the WoS numpty who lives in Bath and Irvine Welsh, Professional Shouty Scotsman, who lives in Chicago (he didn't like that when I pointed it out). It would suit the Tories if we abandoned the Scots, and Irvine would love it as he could bang on about perfidious English betrayals again; but the mass of Scots need us and we need them - united we stand, divided we fall!!

[Willow904]

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 9m9 minutes ago
Insightful assessment by @Freedland of potential dispute over the legitimacy of a Miliband minority government. http://gu.com/p/47t6y/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's pretty convinced that Cameron and co will try hard to claim victory if they are the largest party - even if they can't command a majority in the Commons and Labour could - and will use politics and the media to make it nigh on impossible for Miliband to enter no 10.

If that happens there will be riots.

And Boris is ready with the water cannons.

Not sure if May ever gave him permission to use them, though. Does anyone know? I sometimes get the impression May is holding onto the saner end of the Tory party for all its worth in the hope of being able to salvage something respectable when the Bullingdon boys finally completely and utterly implode in a supernova of arrogant incompetence.

[ohsocynical]

Ian ‏@Mancman10 7 mins7 minutes ago Manchester, England
Latest 7 polls:

YG:LAB 34 CON 33
YG:LAB 35 CON 33
IpM: LAB 35 CON 33
YG:LAB 35 CON 34
PBas:LAB 34 CON 33
YG: LAB 34 CON 34
Pop:LAB 34 CON 33

[ohsocynical]

He's pretty convinced that Cameron and co will try hard to claim victory if they are the largest party - even if they can't command a majority in the Commons and Labour could - and will use politics and the media to make it nigh on impossible for Miliband to enter no 10.

If that happens there will be riots.

And Boris is ready with the water cannons.

Not sure if May ever gave him permission to use them, though. Does anyone know? I sometimes get the impression May is holding onto the saner end of the Tory party for all its worth in the hope of being able to salvage something respectable when the Bullingdon boys finally completely and utter implode in a supernova of arrogant incompetence.

Read a Tweet that said privately Boris was very pleased with how last nights debate went...

[yahyah]

I know I'm like a stuck record BUT

Please, please don't pay so much attention to Scotland. That's EXACTLY what Dave and Lynton want us to do. The Tories will probably win no seats there. So, it pays them to stoke up the Labour / SNP battle when BOTH those parties should be aiming firmly at the chaotic, shambolic, evil Coalition who are defending seats mainly in England.

It's Jim Murphy's job plus Scottish Labour sympathisers (a couple here I think) to sort out the Scottish problem. Let's focus on London, the Midlands and Yorkshire where the Tories are potentially in deep trouble I think.

Rant over

sorry. It irks me so.
(shamefaced emoticon)

Don't be ashamed, you have a right to your views and feelings about it.
Maybe we need a sub thread if mention of the SNP is to be banned here.

[pk1]

I know I'm like a stuck record BUT

Please, please don't pay so much attention to Scotland. That's EXACTLY what Dave and Lynton want us to do. The Tories will probably win no seats there. So, it pays them to stoke up the Labour / SNP battle when BOTH those parties should be aiming firmly at the chaotic, shambolic, evil Coalition who are defending seats mainly in England.

It's Jim Murphy's job plus Scottish Labour sympathisers (a couple here I think) to sort out the Scottish problem. Let's focus on London, the Midlands and Yorkshire where the Tories are potentially in deep trouble I think.

Rant over

sorry. It irks me so.
(shamefaced emoticon)

Don't be ashamed, you have a right to your views and feelings about it.
Maybe we need a sub thread if mention of the SNP is to be banned here.

It's only footy chat that folks want banned on here.....

[TheGrimSqueaker]

sorry. It irks me so.
(shamefaced emoticon)

Don't be ashamed, you have a right to your views and feelings about it.
Maybe we need a sub thread if mention of the SNP is to be banned here.

It's only footy chat that folks want banned on here.....

Only those whose teams are fighting for second place!!

[TheGrimSqueaker]

If that happens there will be riots.

And Boris is ready with the water cannons.

Not sure if May ever gave him permission to use them, though. Does anyone know? I sometimes get the impression May is holding onto the saner end of the Tory party for all its worth in the hope of being able to salvage something respectable when the Bullingdon boys finally completely and utter implode in a supernova of arrogant incompetence.

Read a Tweet that said privately Boris was very pleased with how last nights debate went...

Twas the inimitable Alastair Campbell. Despite everything I quite like the bloke, and his fight for better recognition and treatment of MH issues can only be applauded.

[yahyah]

Maybe something we can agree on...Manifesto for Cats.

Just had an email newsletter from Cats Protection and they:

will be calling on the new Government to put in place measures to protect cats from abandonment, harm and neglect. After a three-month public consultation 93 per cent of participants agreed with all of our 10 suggested manifesto priorities which are designed to benefit cats, owners and society as a whole.

The Manifesto for Cats was unveiled at a parliamentary reception for invited MPs and guests which was hosted by Neil Parish MP and supported by PetPlan. We were delighted to be joined by the Minister for Animal Welfare, Lord de Mauley and the Shadow Minister Angela Smith MP.

Our Manifesto priorities include calls for tighter regulation of the licensing of air guns and banning the use of snares – both of which cause unimaginable pain and suffering, through injury and death, to cats on a daily basis. We're also calling for measures to control the breeding and sale of kittens to drive out unscrupulous breeders and prevent the growing number of unwanted cats.''

http://www.cats.org.uk/what-we-do/manifesto-for-cats" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let's hope it's Labour they will be dealing with not the kill for fun Tories.

[55DegreesNorth]

I've just been talking to some friends kids who are students in Scotland. All 4 said that before and since the ref, the aggressive and intrusive questions from the Nats about how they planned to, or did, vote means they all lie. & either say they can't be arsed, or tell them Yes/SNP to shut them up.
They were confident that a lot of people will be doing the same thing.

Regarding Voter reg, Mrs55 has lived at this address for 29 years & been on the electoral register and voted in every local & national election. She's just received a request to verify her identity, independently witnessed & supply copies of eg Passport & driving licence. When she asked why, she was told they couldn't divulge that information. I wonder how many other people have had this?

Seeing the way some nats have chased Labour MPs around, yelling abuse at them in the street, I too would say SNP just not to become one of their targets.

Who asked her to confirm her ID ? She surely has the right to demand answers from the Council ?

It was the council who wouldn't divulge the reason. She was incandescent, but we think it's sorted. A lot of people might not have been as organised / determined.

On a related note, I caught a snippet on the radio this morning. Apparently not being on the electoral register can damage your credit rating, as its one of the first checks they do. If young people know this, they're more likely to sign up.

[Willow904]

I know I'm like a stuck record BUT

Please, please don't pay so much attention to Scotland. That's EXACTLY what Dave and Lynton want us to do. The Tories will probably win no seats there. So, it pays them to stoke up the Labour / SNP battle when BOTH those parties should be aiming firmly at the chaotic, shambolic, evil Coalition who are defending seats mainly in England.

It's Jim Murphy's job plus Scottish Labour sympathisers (a couple here I think) to sort out the Scottish problem. Let's focus on London, the Midlands and Yorkshire where the Tories are potentially in deep trouble I think.

Rant over

Indeed. While I understand and share the frustration with many here, there are more important battles to fight right now; the SNP and the 45ers may have forgotten who the real enemy are, let's make sure we don't follow their example. Worth remembering too, as I suggested above, that a lot of these wallies don't even live in Scotland so wouldn't have to deal with the consequences if the rest of us cut them loose; easy examples that spring to mind are the WoS numpty who lives in Bath and Irvine Welsh, Professional Shouty Scotsman, who lives in Chicago (he didn't like that when I pointed it out). It would suit the Tories if we abandoned the Scots, and Irvine would love it as he could bang on about perfidious English betrayals again; but the mass of Scots need us and we need them - united we stand, divided we fall!!

I agree. Ordinary people need to stick together if we are to have any hope of standing up to the powerful vested interests. Nationalism is a useful distraction that allows the wealthy elite to carry on as normal, not to mention exciting opportunities to cash in. Scotland with full fiscal autonomy competing with England in a race to the bottom on income and corporation tax levels would be right up their street. I'm encouraged, therefore, that Labour have been much more tentative about the extra powers they have been willing to offer Scotland, than the Tories. It shows that Labour are putting the best interests of the UK before political expediency. It's one big gamble of what is right and what is honest against all that is wrong and that is cynical, but I think it's a gamble worth taking, because Blair played the game and the game won. It's time to change the rules.

[pk1]

The FFA that the SNP want - the IFS has said it would leave Scotland with a £7.6bn deficit but is that a total deficit or is it in addition to a Scotland share of the UK deficit ?

[Tubby Isaacs]

The FFA that the SNP want - the IFS has said it would leave Scotland with a £7.6bn deficit but is that a total deficit or is it in addition to a Scotland share of the UK deficit ?

It's in addition to it, though Stewart Hosie didn't know that 2 days ago.

It's heartbreaking seeing people voting for fools like this. Sturgeon dropped FFA yesterday.

[rebeccariots2]

Just heard the funniest Dead Ringers sketch about the debates ... or rather the debate that wasn't with David Cameron. In the Dead Ringers version Cameron announces in his plummiest (nanny just spanked my bottom and I liked it) voice that he's agreed to an exclusive interview and he'll cover any topic and answer all questions .... pause .... then we hear .... uh huh, uhuh .... pause .... what's that you say Sooty? And so it goes on .... wonderful. He flat out refuses to allow Sweep to ask any questions.

Stupid man .... he's a laughing stock.

[pk1]

Survation/@DailyMirror (chg vs 09/04) CON 34% (+4); LAB 33% (-2); UKIP 17% (+1); LD 7% (-1); SNP 4% (NC); GRE 3% (-1); AP 1% (NC)

Mighty suspicious +4 for the Cons there..