Tuesday 21st April 2015

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 5:59 am

Mortereve all

Let's start the day with Martin Rowson's latest:

Yard Sale: Delicious discount, recycled, Magic Money Meringues – so good you already own them!!
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... cy-cartoon

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 6:24 am

Number 10 was approached for comment after revelations of Rupert's request that Sun staff be more positive toward the Conservatives and for further news of Dave's forthcoming photo-shoot with the Page Three girls. A spokesman said that Dave had chosen a Highland Games theme and elected to wear his Cameron tartan kilt now that voters have been scared off the SNP. He was also offered a choice of red or blue pill beforehand, being Tory Dave naturally chose the blue. No-one from the Sun was available for comment, neither have the pictures been published.

Later it was learned that Rebekah Brooks was still feeling aggrieved and had given Osborne two studio passes, one of which he gave to Gove. George looks forward to the May Day splash and observed that Dave was unable to hide his excitement when tossing the caber. He was lost for words as he couldn't see the teleprompter when flanked by working girls flinging their frocks and flowers in the air. All Michael could report was a giant English arse from his point of view.

Edit: inserted lost for words bit.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 6:39 am

Interesting blog that points out that the SNP are thinking about how Holyrood works rather than Parliament when the claim they'll change the Budget etc and why they can't actually do anything they claim they will.

https://colinrtalbot.wordpress.com/2015 ... budget-no/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 6:49 am

Paddy Ashdown's solution to migrants trying to cross the Med? Blow the ships up whilst they're still in port. Very Liberal.

Lord Ashdown: destroy migrant smugglers' boats before they leave port
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -smugglers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 6:56 am

The Independent are talking up Labour's chances of winning in Kensington & Chelsea.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90962.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 7:25 am

Spacedone wrote:Paddy Ashdown's solution to migrants trying to cross the Med? Blow the ships up whilst they're still in port. Very Liberal.

Lord Ashdown: destroy migrant smugglers' boats before they leave port
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -smugglers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very Paddy Ashdown, though. I prefer Ed Miliband's attitude, which doesn't seem to involve blowing anything up:

“I believe all of us have been shocked and appalled by events in the Mediterranean. We cannot stand by as people drown in European waters simply to escape conflict in Libya and Syria.

“It was wrong to end the search-and-rescue operations and they should be immediately restarted. We must recognise our humanitarian responsibility. If I was prime minister, I would be working with other European leaders to act.

“Our country is known throughout the world for our generosity of spirit. It’s time to reflect that and take action in the face of this terrible tragedy.”

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 7:28 am

Spacedone wrote:Paddy Ashdown's solution to migrants trying to cross the Med? Blow the ships up whilst they're still in port. Very Liberal.

Lord Ashdown: destroy migrant smugglers' boats before they leave port
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -smugglers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To be fair to the man, Spacedone, he always was a war-hawk. Nevertheless you can be both a liberal and appreciate that some things just need stamping out; if that means militarily then so be it. Besides in this case it is the smugglers he targets, not migrants at sea. Personally I agree this is appropriate use of military power (compared to WMDs) provided it be for humanitarian and not corporate ends.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 7:31 am

Ok Paul, don't go.

I will try and learn to love the SNP
I will try and learn to love the SNP
I will try and learn to love the SNP
I will try and learn to love the SNP

See you all a long while later.
Too much to do in the garden and life for the next few weeks.

edited to add: Am plucking up the courage to do phone canvassing.
I still believe Labour could win a small majority and not have to make deals with nationalists.
Let's hope I'm right.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 8:05 am

Morning yahyah and All

Yahyah I promise I'm not having a go at you. I count you as a friend and greatly respect your views. What I wouldn't give for a Labour overall majority. Not least because that would probably mean I would have a Labour MP in Colne Valley, which is still too close to call.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 8:13 am

"I feel fine", says Ed on BBC News this morning.

Edit: deservedly so, it would seem.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 8:16 am

Ed M on BBC Breakfast now. There will be a budget soon after the election. Amongst other things it will abolish the Under-Occupancy Penalty, introduce the Mansion Tax, and increase the budget for the NHS by £2.5Bn as a down payment.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 8:18 am

utopiandreams wrote:"I feel fine", says Ed on BBC News this morning.

3 little words that instantly had me singing

[youtube]YZaxUpe9T0Y[/youtube]

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 8:24 am

For Pfy:

I do see signs of a conversation about what a Labour / SNP working relationship / loose pact might look like. I posted at least two - possibly three, I can't remember - links to stories looking at the differences and similarities between the SNP and Labour manifestos on FTN yesterday.

I try pretty hard to tackle policies rather than just parties and people as my rule of play here. However - that does include referencing when I've experienced Plaid (because I'm in Wales and they are rural here) employing policies that don't fit with their national rhetoric. I'll also be critical of Labour when they do that or similar. I don't want to be scared of mentioning any particular party because it might offend. I don't consider myself so partisan that I can't look at parties other than Labour and see any good in their strategies and policies.

I appreciate we need to be open minded and constructive in our approach ... same applied to my working life ... but we've also got to be able to properly look at policies and track records and how the respective parties and governments - local, national and UK wide - actually behave - surely?

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 8:38 am

Peter Brookes captures the essence of Tory fears:

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 8:45 am

Illegal Tory party donation - check
Tax evasion - check
Money kept in tax haven - check
Pally with Thatcher & Reagan - check
Having to return £50,000 - check

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 90893.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 8:49 am

BBC also saying that Labour will put some sort of new levy on tobacco companies, funding from which will go to fund the training and employment of more nurses. It will be introduced in the Emergency Budget, mentioned above, to get funding in place within the first year of a Labour Government.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 8:51 am

Morning RR2

Yes of course. I agree with absolutely everything you say. And thanks for the manifesto posts, which I appreciated.

I just want to make sure we don't stereotype all those considering voting SNP as rabid "Cybernat" types. There are millions of people in Scotland about to vote SNP. They have a serious, capable politician as their leader who is First Minister of a reasonably well run part of the UK. It's not an absurd choice in my view, though I hope many of them will consider Jim Murphy's refreshed and equally plausible Scottish Labour party this time despite the polls.

I also worry that we play into the Tories' hands. Look at Major this morning. "Chaos" if Labour and SNP govern. I agree with Technical Ephemera from last night that we need to turn the gaze firmly on Cameron, who after all had to call in Gordon Brown to save him from breaking up the Union! What more chaos could one politician create than Dave did with the Referendum nightmare, remembering it was he who forced the in/out choice.

Ed's doing well and there's still a slim chance of a majority. But it will be won in England I believe. I think the Tories are concerned about heavy losses in London and in Yorkshire. Bring it on.

Anyway, thanks for giving me a hearing. And hope it's sunny everywhere today

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 8:57 am

Spacedone wrote:Paddy Ashdown's solution to migrants trying to cross the Med? Blow the ships up whilst they're still in port. Very Liberal.

Lord Ashdown: destroy migrant smugglers' boats before they leave port
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -smugglers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ashdown, who served as a royal Marine before entering parliament, said: “It is
unsustainable and unacceptable to have a policy of drowning refugees when we should be
attacking the smugglers.

Unsustainable???
Strange choice of words,
Surely just "unacceptable" would do.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 9:18 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Morning all.

What's the point?

Of what?

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 9:19 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Morning all.

What's the point?

If it's at the end of a pin or needle, bloody sharp !

A-haaa, needles & pins:

[youtube]ypv1lZlW1WY[/youtube]

Ok, a weak link but I'm trying to cheer you guys up

Post by **adam** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 9:29 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:Morning all.

What's the point?
Of what?
I don't know. Anything. Not sure what we're doing here. Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold.

"Ernest Hemmingway wrote 'The world is a good place, and worth fighting for.' I agree with the second part."

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 9:32 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:Morning all.

What's the point?
Of what?
I don't know. Anything. Not sure what we're doing here. Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold.

Hope,
Support,
Witness,
Companionship,
Common Ground,
Challenging/Confirming
Informing,
If it all goes pear shaped, the consolation of knowing you tried?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:04 am

Morning Robert

We are within touching distance of the first UK Government since 1979 that is not in the full control of global capitalism.

Miliband has freed Labour from the puppeteers of the press and the multinationals.

The next two weeks will be hell precisely because of that. Solidarity to us all here and others who feel the same.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:04 am

Morning all. We seem to be stuck on Scotland again today, which I'm starting to find tedious, as all the same arguments keep being made over and over. I guess we have the Libdems to blame for it, releasing their Scottish manifesto today. Perhaps we'll move onto something more interesting tomorrow.

In the meantime, how is it possible that Rees-Mogg is now set to increase his majority in NE Somerset after being neck and neck with Labour in the previous Ashcroft constituency poll?

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/04/no ... -somerset/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought Todd Foreman was having a good campaign. I know the boundary change has made it much harder for Labour to win here, but I thought they could do at least as well as before. I appreciate some of the working class vote may have migrated to Ukip, but I'd have hoped at least some of the disillusioned Libdem vote would have considered Labour. Foreman's a very strong candidate compared to the Green, who's just some university student with very little to say beyond being anti-fracking. I understand the Green policies connect with people, but allowing Rees-Mogg back in, as voting for them will here, will actually put our local area at much greater risk of imminent fracking than any other outcome. I don't want fracking here - we need an MP who will fight it, not promote it. I feel really sorry for those who want to vote with their hearts but the reality is that doing so and going Green in NE Somerset will make fracking here more, not less, likely.

Oh well. If I'm stuck with Rees-Mogg, I'm stuck with Rees-Mogg. If the country as a whole is moving more to the left, with the Greens doing well, I have to view that as a positive. Maybe he'll be less irritating in opposition. I just hope this isn't a sign that the Tories' "split the left vote" strategy is working.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:11 am

So whilst his boss just points at them, it looks like Nick is sent to do some shopping for his master:

Here he can (possibly) be seen asking the fishmonger if this catfish is suitable for Dave.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:15 am

Morning Willow904

Bad luck! This looks like Lib Dem collapse with the vote going to the Tories doesn't it? Which seems likely to be the main story in the South West this time.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:31 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning Robert

We are within touching distance of the first UK Government since 1979 that is not in the full control of global capitalism.

Miliband has freed Labour from the puppeteers of the press and the multinationals.

The next two weeks will be hell precisely because of that. Solidarity to us all here and others who feel the same.

We know he's a decent bloke, but when you think about Labour now against five years ago and where they are in the polls, Ed's done a hell of a job.

I'd happily include iron willed and calculating on his CV.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:37 am

Willow904 wrote:Morning all. We seem to be stuck on Scotland again today, which I'm starting to find tedious, as all the same arguments keep being made over and over. I guess we have the Libdems to blame for it, releasing their Scottish manifesto today. Perhaps we'll move onto something more interesting tomorrow.

In the meantime, how is it possible that Rees-Mogg is now set to increase his majority in NE Somerset after being neck and neck with Labour in the previous Ashcroft constituency poll?

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/04/no ... -somerset/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought Todd Foreman was having a good campaign. I know the boundary change has made it much harder for Labour to win here, but I thought they could do at least as well as before. I appreciate some of the working class vote may have migrated to Ukip, but I'd have hoped at least some of the disillusioned Libdem vote would have considered Labour. Foreman's a very strong candidate compared to the Green, who's just some university student with very little to say beyond being anti-fracking. I understand the Green policies connect with people, but allowing Rees-Mogg back in, as voting for them will here, will actually put our local area at much greater risk of imminent fracking than any other outcome. I don't want fracking here - we need an MP who will fight it, not promote it. I feel really sorry for those who want to vote with their hearts but the reality is that doing so and going Green in NE Somerset will make fracking here more, not less, likely.

Oh well. If I'm stuck with Rees-Mogg, I'm stuck with Rees-Mogg. If the country as a whole is moving more to the left, with the Greens doing well, I have to view that as a positive. Maybe he'll be less irritating in opposition. I just hope this isn't a sign that the Tories' "split the left vote" strategy is working.

I posted here yesterday that there's been a leaflet circulated in his constituency which is from an anti - gay marriage group. Todd isn't sure but I think suspects Rees-Mogg is behind it.

Edited because I wrote gobbledy gook.

FuriousGeorge · Post by **FuriousGeorge** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:40 am

I wonder if the new voters that registered in the last week will make any difference to the polls.

I would think the majority of them might be younger, first time voters so if thats the case theoretically that might swing more votes towards the left.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:41 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning Willow904

Bad luck! This looks like Lib Dem collapse with the vote going to the Tories doesn't it? Which seems likely to be the main story in the South West this time.

Looks that way. The Libdems were always more "Lib" than "Dem" round here. Looks like some of the Orange book voters round these parts have shadowed Clegg's transformation into out and out Tories.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:44 am

FuriousGeorge wrote:I wonder if the new voters that registered in the last week will make any difference to the polls.

I would think the majority of them might be younger, first time voters so if thats the case theoretically that might swing more votes towards the left.

Good point. I've also wondered if the polls are missing the surge in anti-Tory votes by firemen etc. I know their union? has circulated a letter asking them not to vote Conservative.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:46 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:Morning all.

What's the point?
Of what?
I don't know. Anything. Not sure what we're doing here. Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold.

Ah, I have days like those. Try to remember the darkest hour is just before dawn. I'll happily admit for instance that EM's campaign has been vastly better than I expected. And that of the Tories has just been a shambles.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:46 am

FuriousGeorge wrote:I wonder if the new voters that registered in the last week will make any difference to the polls.

I would think the majority of them might be younger, first time voters so if thats the case theoretically that might swing more votes towards the left.

Just found this Tweet.

Iain McNicol ‏@IainMcNicol 4s4 seconds ago Nottingham, England

Fantastic that 469,047 people registered to vote yesterday - Now let's change the country.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:47 am

Morning all.

With regards who gets first dibs at forming a coalition if there's no majority. It's my limited understanding that it's the incumbent government that gets to go first. Seeing as we currently have a coalition does that apply to Cameron only or Cameron and Clegg?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:52 am

frightful_oik wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
frightful_oik wrote: Of what?
I don't know. Anything. Not sure what we're doing here. Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold.
Ah, I have days like those. Try to remember the darkest hour is just before dawn. I'll happily admit for instance that EM's campaign has been vastly better than I expected. And that of the Tories has just been a shambles.

Does anyone else remember how we were despairing a couple of years ago. Heck, even a year ago?

Pissed off with Andy Burnham. Still too many Blairites. Where were the decent policies?

Post by **adam** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:54 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

With regards who gets first dibs at forming a coalition if there's no majority. It's my limited understanding that it's the incumbent government that gets to go first. Seeing as we currently have a coalition does that apply to Cameron only or Cameron and Clegg?

From the press it would appear to be Nicola Sturgeon.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:56 am

ohsocynical wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Morning all. We seem to be stuck on Scotland again today, which I'm starting to find tedious, as all the same arguments keep being made over and over. I guess we have the Libdems to blame for it, releasing their Scottish manifesto today. Perhaps we'll move onto something more interesting tomorrow.

In the meantime, how is it possible that Rees-Mogg is now set to increase his majority in NE Somerset after being neck and neck with Labour in the previous Ashcroft constituency poll?

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/04/no ... -somerset/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought Todd Foreman was having a good campaign. I know the boundary change has made it much harder for Labour to win here, but I thought they could do at least as well as before. I appreciate some of the working class vote may have migrated to Ukip, but I'd have hoped at least some of the disillusioned Libdem vote would have considered Labour. Foreman's a very strong candidate compared to the Green, who's just some university student with very little to say beyond being anti-fracking. I understand the Green policies connect with people, but allowing Rees-Mogg back in, as voting for them will here, will actually put our local area at much greater risk of imminent fracking than any other outcome. I don't want fracking here - we need an MP who will fight it, not promote it. I feel really sorry for those who want to vote with their hearts but the reality is that doing so and going Green in NE Somerset will make fracking here more, not less, likely.

Oh well. If I'm stuck with Rees-Mogg, I'm stuck with Rees-Mogg. If the country as a whole is moving more to the left, with the Greens doing well, I have to view that as a positive. Maybe he'll be less irritating in opposition. I just hope this isn't a sign that the Tories' "split the left vote" strategy is working.
I posted here yesterday that there's been a leaflet circulated in his constituency which is from an anti - gay marriage group. Todd isn't sure but I think suspects Rees-Mogg is behind it.

Edited because I wrote gobbledy gook.

An openly gay American was always going to be a difficult fit for a rural community. NE Somerset is 72 on Labour's target list so it was always a bit of a long shot. The drift of some traditional working class Labour voters to Ukip was already on the cards before Foreman was selected so I doubt he's scared them away. More a case of not being able to win them back, but it would probably have been the same with an educated middle class type Labour candidate - it's all part of the alienation of working class males who still expect Labour MPs to be white, male, union types. I actually think PaulfromYorkshire is right. The real problem is that the Libdems round here are mostly Liberals with Tory leanings who, having failed to get a Libdem elected last time when they were at their peak, have fallen back to their default setting of the Tories being preferable to Labour.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:57 am

pk1 wrote:So whilst his boss just points at them, it looks like Nick is sent to do some shopping for his master:

Here he can (possibly) be seen asking the fishmonger if this catfish is suitable for Dave.

Definitely caption of the day from the AS blog...

ChineeChopper 5m ago
Caption for the Clegg/ eel Photo?

Man: "careful, he's slippery"
Clegg: "I think I've got him"
Man: "I wasn't talking to you"

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:08 am

Its easy to get downhearted, but lets remember that the Tories have fired their big guns already (both in terms of their own "policies" and attacks on Labour) That certainly wasn't the original plan, it has been brought about because they expected to be well ahead in the polls by the start of the campaign and would have then been able to run a glossy "presidential" style campaign around Dave's "popularity" - whilst using their press attack dogs to neutralise any possible threat from Labour.

Instead, they have had to play all their cards with several weeks to go, such is their desperation for Lynton's fabled "crossover". Labour, though, still has much in reserve.

And all those people who have just registered to vote - how many Tory voters amongst them? Not many, I should think - especially since CCO almost openly wants a low turnout.

15 days to go - keep the faith

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:11 am

My postal votes have arrived.

I did not realise we had two greens for the General Election.

The main Green Party and a Green Alliance Party. That's likely to split the green vote.
Other than that, just the usual, Tory, Labour, UKIP and that other bunch of wet lettucies. There's a distict lack of imagination around here.

As for local council it's just Labour or Tory (the Tory will win, he's that nice man from the village).

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:16 am

Morning all.

What has Andy Burnham done to incur your wroth Ohso? I thought he was doing OK, seems to be making the right noises on the NHS.

I just want to make sure we don't stereotype all those considering voting SNP as rabid "Cybernat" types. There are millions of people in Scotland about to vote SNP.

PfY, I suspect that, somewhat ironically, a good number of the most rabid Cybernats are not SNP voters, simply because they aren't living in Scotland. I am concerned that people are buying into the rhetoric, in the same way so many did with the Lib Dems five years ago; the same applies to the Greens, not people like Tizme, but the likes of Ms Monroe who think they are being oh so clever and really haven't thought through the consequences of their actions - Monroe survived because there was a safety net still in place to help her, yet she seems supremely unconcerned that her actions will deprive others of that help.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:18 am

I'm going to break the habit of a lifetime and tell you how I voted, we have postal votes.

I've always lived in a safe seat, formerly labour, now tory. I've voted green since there's been a candidate to vote for, because the environment and climate change is very important to me and I wanted enough like-minded people to do the same to send that message to the main parties.

I voted Labour today, because sometimes you have to put the shortterm before the longterm.

Re Scotland, the Scots are citizens of the UK and if they democratically elect 50 SNP MPs so be it, Labour will have to make the best of it.
I don't think they will (elect 50), as you know.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:23 am

Andrew Sparrow:

I’ve been watching on the BBC live feed, but every now and then it halts, and starts repeating itself. Perhaps that’s appropriate. Major is repeating the messages he was using in 1997.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:25 am

Goodmorfternoon.

@ yahyah

Good luck if you take the plunge with 'phone canvassing.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:28 am

Now that the postal voting is underway, can we expect a flurry of pics via Twitter and Instagram of who people have voted for? I'm curious as to how social media is going to play a factor. Not from the parties but the population.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:31 am

yahyah wrote:Ok Paul, don't go.

I will try and learn to love the SNP
I will try and learn to love the SNP
I will try and learn to love the SNP
I will try and learn to love the SNP

See you all a long while later.
Too much to do in the garden and life for the next few weeks.

edited to add: Am plucking up the courage to do phone canvassing.
I still believe Labour could win a small majority and not have to make deals with nationalists.
Let's hope I'm right.

I can't learn to love the SNP - a party who's sole aim is to break up our country.
I despised that their activists use fear and intimidation to try to force their view of the world on everyone else.
I despise that whilst pretending to want an end to austerity they have not used the tax raising power they do have to put a brake on austerity in Scotland, and have encouraged Local Authority's to run up debt to a frightening degree. Over 6k per person in Scotland to English and Welsh 3k & 2k. How are they going to pay for that whilst running away from "austerity"?
It's not left wing to want to lower corporation tax to poach businesses from other parts of the UK.
Their manifesto is a pale copy of Labour's, yet is heralded as though is the new bible for anti-austerity!
I despise Nicola Sturgeon's arrogance in claiming "she" will keep Ed Miliband to the left - cheeky mare! - as we say round here.
So if we are now to add SNP to the list of to Holier-Than-Thou-not-to-be-criticised I think it's time for me to spend more time in the garden with yahyah for a little while.
I'll say no more about them other than I sincerely hope they play no part in government, other than run their own Scottish one.
Here's to a resounding Labour Majority.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:37 am

StephenDolan wrote:Now that the postal voting is underway, can we expect a flurry of pics via Twitter and Instagram of who people have voted for? I'm curious as to how social media is going to play a factor. Not from the parties but the population.

Showing public pics of your ballot paper is, at best, of dubious legality - people need to be made aware of this!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:46 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Now that the postal voting is underway, can we expect a flurry of pics via Twitter and Instagram of who people have voted for? I'm curious as to how social media is going to play a factor. Not from the parties but the population.
Showing public pics of your ballot paper is, at best, of dubious legality - people need to be made aware of this!

Yes that was one of the things I was driving at but I've not seen this highlighted anywhere?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 12:11 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Morning all.

What has Andy Burnham done to incur your wroth Ohso? I thought he was doing OK, seems to be making the right noises on the NHS.

I just want to make sure we don't stereotype all those considering voting SNP as rabid "Cybernat" types. There are millions of people in Scotland about to vote SNP.
PfY, I suspect that, somewhat ironically, a good number of the most rabid Cybernats are not SNP voters, simply because they aren't living in Scotland. I am concerned that people are buying into the rhetoric, in the same way so many did with the Lib Dems five years ago; the same applies to the Greens, not people like Tizme, but the likes of Ms Monroe who think they are being oh so clever and really haven't thought through the consequences of their actions - Monroe survived because there was a safety net still in place to help her, yet she seems supremely unconcerned that her actions will deprive others of that help.

I'm okay with him, but if I remember correctly he wasn't that popular a few years ago...I'm just looking back at how things have changed.

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Tue 21 Apr, 2015 12:16 pm

Afternoon all

The Scots are no more a nationalist nation than the English are a Tory one – those are just Murdochian word splices used to undermine a system that, while it works to Murdoch and co’s advantage, they cannot completely control. It feels like the whole of the Tory Party strategy is based on invalidating certain sections of the electorate with the direct assistance of the MSM.

I think the article in the Independent about Murdoch’s outrage at the Sun not being antagonistic enough towards Labour and EdM in particular showed real signs of the old bastard losing the total power he believed he had to own our democracy for his empire’s profits (can’t link it or this computer will crash but think someone did last night). I think there is a huge battle going on for our democratic existence and it frightens the hell out of me. Then I talk to one of my neighbours and they explain they are voting SNP because they want to protect Scotland from the tories, to my daughter who while voting Labour tells me that to her Labour is the establishment because it was in power during her politically formative years and that leaves a legacy, and to an old Labour acquaintance who voted UKIP in the Euros, yes in the indyref and will now vote SNP in the GE and decide all I can do is argue my corner, vote for what I believe in and hope for the Labour to win. I don’t think that my blood pressure can cope with anything other than that!

I love theory (and can witter on endlessly about it) but people just mess it up by living in real worlds, it’s a pain. With that in mind I’ve just run out of coffee (caffeine addict) and no pension til tomorrow. Anyone know ways of dealing with caffeine lacking extreme headaches?