Wednesday 22nd April 2015

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Spacedone
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Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by Spacedone »

Morning all.

I see that Grant Shapps is trying to blame Labour for Wikipedia catching him trying to manufacture a new reality. :lol:
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Morning Spacedone and :lol:
Spacedone
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by Spacedone »

Grant Shapps accused of editing Wikipedia pages of Tory rivals
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ory-rivals" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wikipedia tracked a range of IP addresses used by Contribsx to a web hosting service regularly employed by internet spammers. The same service had been used by an anonymous user in 2013 to remove material from Wikipedia related to How To Corp, to Michael Green and to Shapps’ past sockpuppetry.

Senior editors at Wikipedia became exasperated by this anonymous amending with one responding on 20 July 2013 by saying: “Dear Grant Shapps, clearly your and your supporter’s dodgy behaviour knows no bounds.”
:lol: :lol:
Spacedone
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by Spacedone »

The 2014-15 Trussell Trust food bank figures are out and it's another stonking great increase in the number of people having to rely on charity to eat.

More than a million people have used food banks in past year
Experts warn figures showing a 19% rise year-on-year is just the ‘tip of the iceberg’ of UK food poverty
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... rs-poverty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The latest figures from the Trussell Trust, which coordinates a network of food banks in the UK, show a 19% year-on-year increase in food bank users, demonstrating that hunger, debt and poverty are continuing to affect large numbers of low-income families and individuals.

Nearly 1.1 million people received at least three days of emergency food from the trust’s 445 food banks in 2014-15 – up from 913,000 the previous year.

Back in 2009-10, before the Liberal Democrat-Conservative coalition took power, the then little-known charity fed 41,000 people from its 56 food banks.
Another 171,466 people benefiting from the longtermeconomicplan.

Here is the Trussell Trust press release.

http://www.trusselltrust.org/resources/ ... t-time.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Spacedone
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by Spacedone »

Just listening to R4 reporting on the Shapps story and they basically just pushed Shapp's line that it was someone else that did the editing to discredit Shapps. They didn't bother to mention that this stuff has been going on for years... presumably because it becomes somewhat unbelievable to pretend that someone in the Labour Party has spent years making subtle changes to Wikipedia just so they could launch an attack on Shapps in the election campaign.
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rearofthestore
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by rearofthestore »

As I suggested last night re 'exiting' YouGov poll, look at the detail and it doesn't stack up.
Voting Intention Age Group 18-24 Conservative 32% Labour 30% (Yes really!)
Voting Intention Midlands /Wales Conservative 40% Labour 32% (Seems Unlikely)
Bullshit poll I think.
mikems
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by mikems »

Andrew Neil tweeted last night that a major Tory donor told him the party’s campaign was “useless”, believing that David Cameron’s “heart is not in it”.
— Tim Montgomerie ن (@montie)
April 21, 2015

@afneil DC has wanted out for a while. He has just wanted to go out on some sort of high and hasn't been able to find that high.
Doesn't want to win, doesn't want anyone else to either. What a man-child.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

mikems wrote:
Andrew Neil tweeted last night that a major Tory donor told him the party’s campaign was “useless”, believing that David Cameron’s “heart is not in it”.
— Tim Montgomerie ن (@montie)
April 21, 2015

@afneil DC has wanted out for a while. He has just wanted to go out on some sort of high and hasn't been able to find that high.
Doesn't want to win, doesn't want anyone else to either. What a man-child.
Cameron is a massive egotist, he is also bone idle and has no grasp of strategy. He is pretty decent at tactics and good at improvising but while that will get you by in the boardroom (for a while) it doesn't cut it in politics.

The reality is he knows that either he is going to lose, or he is going to win but with an ungovernable rabble, who will probably quickly kill him off.

He just can't bear to be seen as a failure.
Release the Guardvarks.
55DegreesNorth
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by 55DegreesNorth »

rearofthestore wrote:As I suggested last night re 'exiting' YouGov poll, look at the detail and it doesn't stack up.
Voting Intention Age Group 18-24 Conservative 32% Labour 30% (Yes really!)
Voting Intention Midlands /Wales Conservative 40% Labour 32% (Seems Unlikely)
Bullshit poll I think.
It depends entirely on the sample. Students at Durham and Newcastle uni for example, are hardly representative.
http://www.thejournal.co.uk/majority-no ... ts-9075428
55DegreesNorth
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by 55DegreesNorth »

Edited to remove double post. This site is doing my bonce. Every time I post, it logs me out, or tells me I'm not logged in but posts anyway. I'm using Adblockweb on an iPad.
Last edited by 55DegreesNorth on Wed 22 Apr, 2015 8:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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danesclose
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by danesclose »

Spacedone wrote:Morning all.

I see that Grant Shapps is trying to blame Labour for Wikipedia catching him trying to manufacture a new reality. :lol:
Morning all. According to Nicky Morgan its because of the success of the Tory attacks over the Labour/SNP "links" :roll:
Proud to be part of The Indecent Minority.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

The massive loss announced by Tesco is being put down to various things - mostly that they are pricier than the the discounters - Lidl and Aldi. Fair enough - but I wish someone would add in that their 'popularity' has also been affected by their rapacious attitude re taking over high streets everywhere - no street corner, village pub or badger sett safe if they wanted to put a store there. Plus their enthusiastic participation in the worst of workfare programmes - which I, and those involved in boycotting them, consider disgusting practice which undermines real paid jobs and amounts to a taxpayer subsidy - and some of their dubious employment practices re only offering part time work etc.

Maybe - just maybe - if they changed the way they operated - rather than just assume it's all down to price and attractiveness of store layouts - they might get more of their customers back.
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rearofthestore
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by rearofthestore »

55DegreesNorth wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:As I suggested last night re 'exiting' YouGov poll, look at the detail and it doesn't stack up.
Voting Intention Age Group 18-24 Conservative 32% Labour 30% (Yes really!)
Voting Intention Midlands /Wales Conservative 40% Labour 32% (Seems Unlikely)
Bullshit poll I think.
It depends entirely on the sample. Students at Durham and Newcastle uni for example, are hardly representative.
http://www.thejournal.co.uk/majority-no ... ts-9075428
You are exactly right but taking YouGov's specific 18-24 polling it is as follows:
March 2015 CONS 23% LAB 34%
Feb 2015 CONS 21% LAB 33%
Jan 2015 CONS 21% LAB 32%
(source YouGov
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/d ... ebsite.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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refitman
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by refitman »

55DegreesNorth wrote:Edited to remove double post. This site is doing my bonce. Every time I post, it logs me out, or tells me I'm not logged in but posts anyway. I'm using Adblockweb on an iPad.
It might be worth white-listing FTN in adblock (we won't have any).

We are still investigating the access issues.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Thank you refit re investigating the access issues.

I'm now experiencing slow down and lock out and general error every day. Seems to happen from about 3.30pm our time on .... have wondered if it's the great big server in the sky time for doing something to itself. But then, this didn't happen before.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

ben goldacre ‏@bengoldacre 18m18 minutes ago
ben goldacre retweeted Shane Richmond
Oh god it's all so seedy and crass. Here's another time Shapps's account was "hacked" http://www.libdemvoice.org/grant-shapps ... ment-22605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
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pk1
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by pk1 »

55DegreesNorth wrote:Edited to remove double post. This site is doing my bonce. Every time I post, it logs me out, or tells me I'm not logged in but posts anyway. I'm using Adblockweb on an iPad.
That's a browser isn't it ?

I use Mercury browser (compatible with Chrome so bookmarks can be transferred) and Weblock as my ad-blocker.

Safari drove me nuts when it decided that user couldn't 'paste' within a forum such as this, unless they tried it at least half a dozen times so that's why I ended up with Mercury - I tried the free version, liked it so paid for the full one - a total cost of 79p or thereabouts !
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Frances Crook ‏@francescrook 10m10 minutes ago
Election campaign going for 3 weeks. Has anyone seen or heard from Chris Grayling? Apparently he was spotted in a side street in Finchley
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Chris Bryant 2015 ‏@ChrisBryant4MP 4m4 minutes ago
Tory peer, when asked about Tory campaign told me, ‘I despair. Do they want the Union to survive or not?'
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StephenDolan
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by StephenDolan »

Morning all.

Are we expecting any fresh attacks in the next couple of weeks or more of the same? Have the rwp held anything back?
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frightful_oik
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by frightful_oik »

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Are we expecting any fresh attacks in the next couple of weeks or more of the same? Have the rwp held anything back?
Well, all parties have a grid with their campaign plans on it. I understand that the Tory one has a lot of crossings out on it; and also that for early May there's something about 'scweam and scweam 'til I make myself sick'.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
StephenDolan
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by StephenDolan »

In 2010, of the 29.7m valid votes cast, 7m were done via postal votes.

Both figures likely to be higher this time?
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Q: You say Labour cannot lecture you on poverty. But today’s food bank figures are embarrassing. You don’t have a good record on this, do you?

Cameron says he does not accept this. Poverty is down, and pensioner poverty is down too.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... -diagnosis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Denial and Dirt - all the Conservatives seem to have as their offer.
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rearofthestore
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by rearofthestore »

I thought he might start to distance himself from Shapps
Labour Press Team retweeted
Ben Glaze ‏@benglaze 3m3 minutes ago
#Cameron dodges "full confidence" question over Grant #Shapps #GE2015 #Tory
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

rearofthestore wrote:I thought he might start to distance himself from Shapps
Labour Press Team retweeted
Ben Glaze ‏@benglaze 3m3 minutes ago
#Cameron dodges "full confidence" question over Grant #Shapps #GE2015 #Tory
He's left that rather too late I think.

Both of them synthetic to the core.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

rearofthestore wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:As I suggested last night re 'exiting' YouGov poll, look at the detail and it doesn't stack up.
Voting Intention Age Group 18-24 Conservative 32% Labour 30% (Yes really!)
Voting Intention Midlands /Wales Conservative 40% Labour 32% (Seems Unlikely)
Bullshit poll I think.
It depends entirely on the sample. Students at Durham and Newcastle uni for example, are hardly representative.
http://www.thejournal.co.uk/majority-no ... ts-9075428
You are exactly right but taking YouGov's specific 18-24 polling it is as follows:
March 2015 CONS 23% LAB 34%
Feb 2015 CONS 21% LAB 33%
Jan 2015 CONS 21% LAB 32%
(source YouGov
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/d ... ebsite.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The figures for 18-24 are clearly wrong. However I hear persistent suggestions that Labour is finding the Midlands hard going, this is a bit of an issue to say the least.

Given a 10 point lead in 2010 in England for the Tories that figure would suggest a small swing to Labour (but a very small swing). So worryingly it may be not too far out (if the Midlands dominates the sample).
Release the Guardvarks.
pk1
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by pk1 »

Just because

Image

#milifandom

:D :D :D
WelshIan
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by WelshIan »

The deaths in the Med are awful, and every EU government should hang their heads in shame for not funding search and rescue properly.

Apologies for dragging politics into this subject, but David Cameron was lying when he said this yesterday:
The PM said the decision to end the Mare Nostrum operation had been taken in Europe "to change the approach, because at that time it seemed that more lives were being lost because of what the Italian navy was doing".
"More people were taking to the sea, more people were dying."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32400271" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Independent has a story from 15th April, http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 79310.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fears of an unprecedented wave of lethal Mediterranean crossings are being realised, with refugee organisations declaring that death rates had soared by 50-fold since the end of Italy’s dedicated Mare Nostrum search and rescue mission.

With just the EU’s limited Frontex rescue system to replace it, the United Nations Refugee Agency (UNHCR) and Amnesty International said they were “deeply shocked” by the loss of 400 lives following the latest migrant shipwreck, which brought the death toll to almost 900 so far this year, since 1 January. This compares to just 17 during the same period in 2014, or more than 50 times as many deaths, said the UN agency.
Add in those who died on the weekend and there have been 100 times as many deaths.
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by pk1 »

:rofl: :rofl: :clap: :clap:
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ephemerid
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by ephemerid »

Hello all - been popping in to see what you're all up to over the past few days.

I've been a bit poorly, but my lovely GP has changed my meds and I feel a lot better......so watch out!

This is mainly for Ernst (to whom I will send a separate email as we discussed, Ernst) but I would be very grateful if you guys would have a look at the following and tell me what you all think.

Labour have said that they will involve "disabled people" in their deliberations on the WCA - they have not mentioned consulting the sick people to whom ESA applies. and as ever continue to conflate illness with disability. Tedious.
I suspect that they will enlist people who are the usual purveyors of "advice" from the usual charities - I hope that they are encouraged to actually engage with claimants who are not part of the usual "consultation" cabal - but I doubt it, personally.
My reason for this is that I and many people I know have attempted to engage with Reeves and Green personally, tried to get involved via Your Britain, and so forth - but there is never a response and that is very disappointing.

Still - if people like Ernst have some access, it's foolish not to take advantage of it, so here goes.....

There are some things that we already know, because Labour have said that this is what they will do - they will not abolish ESA and the WCA but will "reform" it; they will not restore the ILF and we are not clear as to whether the reduced funds the Tories have set aside for LAs to administer support will be increased or ring-fenced; they will not cancel UC altogether but will assess whether it's salvageable.
Although Labour have been very clear about abolishing the bedroom tax, which is fantastic, they have not been clear about various other issues which are causing immense distress and widespread poverty in working and non-working claimants alike.

So - this is what I would like to see (knowing that I can't have what I really think should happen, ie. a citizens income)

Crisis Loans - it is the abolition of these that has caused some of the increased food bank need - as much as 30% of it is due to this.
Although delays weren't as much of a problem under Labour, they were common; now it takes several weeks to get any claim up and running, and because Crisis Loans were abolished, there is no system for people to access emergency cash. Crisis Loans were cost neutral, and part of the qualification for them was that you had a reasonable expectation of a benefit award or the certainty of same but were a victim of delays in processing; these loans were paid back from benefits or an attachment to earnings if you got a job and couldn't pay it back all at once.
Labour should restore the Crisis Loans.

Sanctions - under Labour the average referral rate was 180,000PA with a disallowance rate of 120,000PA. Two-thirds of referrals were judged as requiring a disallowance; sanctions were not disproportionate as they are now. Since 2012, sanctions have increased to the point that now the average annual rate for referrals is 1,100,000 and the disallowance rate is 600,000; half the referrals are not found to be correct, but the claimants still have their payments "suspended" for the time it takes for a decision to be made and/or a mandatory recon to be done.
The minimum sanction term has risen fro 1 week to 4; the maximum from 26 weeks to 156. Given the lower claimant count, all JSA claimants can expect at least one sanction in 6 months; even if they get backdated benefit on recon, they will be weeks without any benefit.
Labour should abolish the new regime and restore the old one.

Jobcentres - these are now completely separated from benefit processing. Labour is partially responsible for this, as it was under Labour that the benefit delivery centres (the old Benefits Agency) took over that role. Although an adviser at a new claim interview may have access to they system to input data and give you an idea whether you qualify for JSA, they cannot deal with actual benefit processing. As result, the claimant has to deal with a system that is expensive and difficult to access; they cannot get help easily.
Labour should bring benefit processing and decision making back in house - local jobcentres should be dealing with local people; they know the labour market locally, and the claimant can speak to a benefit processor or decision maker face to face. Jobcentres have the IT systems in place, they have the room, and it could be done relatively quickly.

It's my opinion that these three things alone would be eminently do-able, and would help to stop the need for food banks and other emergency support that millions are now being forced to rely on.
Let's not forget that the Trussell Trust provides about a third of all emergency food aid in the UK - we are looking at 3 million individual emergencies being catered for by charity purely because the system has been so reduced that people cannot manage on what is available to them.

There are a hundred other ideas for reforming the social security system - but I think these three things could be done very quickly and would help a lot of people very quickly.
Various other things will help too - the abolition of the bedroom tax will help 600,000 people; if the new rules on council tax were abolished that would help too.
In time, I'd like to think that Labour would be open to negotiation on conditionality in general, the WCA, and provision for disabled people - but as long as Reeves is in charge, I doubt that will happen.

I'd be grateful for your views on this.
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
pk1
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by pk1 »

Ephe - glad you're feeling better :)

I posted the other day that Labour are launching a manifesto for disabled people.

http://labourlist.org/2015/04/too-many- ... ed-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As part of it, they want to
Invite disabled people to work with ministers on a cross-governmental committee to improve disability policy.
so it would be natural for our disability specialist (you) to be involved.

Ernst agreed to lobby for you to be involved via his contact with Rachel Reeves, if you wanted to be.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote: It depends entirely on the sample. Students at Durham and Newcastle uni for example, are hardly representative.
http://www.thejournal.co.uk/majority-no ... ts-9075428
You are exactly right but taking YouGov's specific 18-24 polling it is as follows:
March 2015 CONS 23% LAB 34%
Feb 2015 CONS 21% LAB 33%
Jan 2015 CONS 21% LAB 32%
(source YouGov
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/d ... ebsite.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The figures for 18-24 are clearly wrong. However I hear persistent suggestions that Labour is finding the Midlands hard going, this is a bit of an issue to say the least.

Given a 10 point lead in 2010 in England for the Tories that figure would suggest a small swing to Labour (but a very small swing). So worryingly it may be not too far out (if the Midlands dominates the sample).
I don't think that the Ashcroft marginals polling has Labour doing notably worse in the Midlands than elsewhere, tbh.

If anything the South (outside London) is more of a struggle.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
mikems
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by mikems »

I don't know where I stand in the illness/disability spectrum - I have congenital structural problems and suffer from chronic pain and other things as a result and none of this is ever going to get better, yet I am in the ESA WRAG and have been since 2012. Though I have told my assessors that my problems are chronic and cannot be treated, both times I have been through this I have been placed in WRAG. Fearing that was more by luck than fair process, and that I could just as easily been declared 'fit for work', and not wishing to go through any more stress, I didn't appeal it either time, and was just grateful that I wouldn't have to do jobsearch.

I think Ephie is right to make the distinction plain when we are dealing with future policy development, but we mustn't overlook the fact that the WCA has more or less arbitrarily dumped people into groups, or denied their illness/disabilty tout court, on the basis of centrally defined targets, so in itself it is not a satisfactory means of categorising people.
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by Lonewolfie »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
rearofthestore wrote:I thought he might start to distance himself from Shapps
Labour Press Team retweeted
Ben Glaze ‏@benglaze 3m3 minutes ago
#Cameron dodges "full confidence" question over Grant #Shapps #GE2015 #Tory
He's left that rather too late I think.

Both of them synthetic to the core.
Shapps is the best he's got though....old 'real' Tories were either sacked or wouldn't touch Chicken Dave with a barge pole - Nicky Morgan? Fallon? Rhyming Slang? Not a shred of logic or ability between them - over-promoted and over-hyped - any challenge from a real person with honesty and integrity would have shown them for what they really are....and there's nowhere for them to hide any more.

He put Gove and Lansley in place (to help with the transfer of public money to the Banksters), covered by the protection afforded by Coulson in No 10 and the Flame-haired Harpy at Newcorpse - they received oodles of free cash from HSBC and the like, whilst I'm fairly sure Dave (as a 'special' friend of Rebukakakakah) told them he'd 'deal' with Mr Ed (because in Daves' 'judgment', he's 'weak, wierd and useless' and, again, in Daves' 'judgment', he'll be able to swat Mr Ed like a fly :rofl: ).....as the plan (I believe(TM)) was to have the 2 Daves (Miliband and Camercon) fight out their pseudo-battle for 5 years, ushering in the 'new way', using the likes of ATOS, Maximarse, G4S, A4E, Serco etc etc to subjugate the population until they'd accepted that it is OK to drown, kill and oppress others 'because there's no money', presenting a real 'no difference' alternative at this election....except, of course, it hasn't quite worked out that way and now the 'ideas' locker is empty.

What's the point? (In response to RobertSnozers yesterday - as ever, absolutely no offence meant and apologies for being late to the party)

The point (to me at least, here in Hope, just north of Peterborough and 2 weeks from Landslide) is that on May the 8th we finally get the opportunity to take our country back and rebuild a modern post-war consensus - using the advances in technology to help not hinder, to regard others as friends not enemies, to live in a post-Murkydochian world where Leveson 2 keeps the likes of Dacre in his bile-filled cess-pit - none of this is possible if Clouncy Funt returns and is only possible with Mr Ed.

...and Morninooneveaft all...
Proud to be 1 of the 76% - Solidarity...because PODEMOS
utopiandreams
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

"Wikipedia, from what you have just said, is a farrago, a Nigel Farrago, of stuff that is cobbled together by hidden hands. You know not where or who they are. Many of them know absolutely nothing about what they are talking about plainly. The golden rule is don’t trust stuff you read on the internet, that’s my view."

Boris Johnson 22/04/2015.

He added that the wheels had fallen off their election campaign and that Dave and George had asked him to the rescue. I told them to park it out front. After a costume change and a ruffle of my hair I'll soon capture the voters' imagination.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
pk1
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by pk1 »

Vote for your local Conservative; Vote Name Surname

:rofl: you could not make it up !

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PorFavor
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by PorFavor »

Goodmorfternoon.

Last night I dreamt that the Conservatives were 8 points ahead (I blame rearofthestore).

Thank the lord that's over.

Has anyone here who still posts over at the Guardian called attention to last night's Newsnight welfare item retreat?
Might be an idea to mention it. A lot. It doesn't appear to get a mention above the line.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by citizenJA »

rebeccariots2 wrote:Thank you refit re investigating the access issues.

I'm now experiencing slow down and lock out and general error every day. Seems to happen from about 3.30pm our time on .... have wondered if it's the great big server in the sky time for doing something to itself. But then, this didn't happen before.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:Goodmorfternoon.

Last night I dreamt that the Conservatives were 8 points ahead (I blame rearofthestore).

Thank the lord that's over.

Has anyone here who still posts over at the Guardian called attention to last night's Newsnight welfare item retreat?
Might be an idea to mention it. A lot. It doesn't appear to get a mention above the line.
Zero sighting of Tory failure to show on planned debate. Has anyone else seen anything? The Mirror has an article.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/as ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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ephemerid
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by ephemerid »

pk1 - yes, thank you, I've written separately to Ernst about this. Regarding the manifesto for disabled people, as ever it is based on the assumption that ESA claimants are disabled. Many are not - many are temporarily or permanently debilitated by their condition, but the former might not be considered disabled by the usual definition if the latter are.

mikeems makes the point that having congenital structural problems can give rise to symptoms which fall into a definition of illness. There is a distinction here which I happen to think is very important.

Example - I am ill due to COPD, arthritis, and a few other things. This is the constant. Sometimes I am debilitated to the extent that I cannot physically manage the basic activities of daily living unassisted. That makes me disabled too when that happens, if not all the time.
The reason why I am incapable of work is illness, which give rise to disability on occasion - but the illness is key.
Someone who is visually impaired to the point of functional blindness is disabled. If in otherwise good health, they are not ill.

This is why the WCA is unfit for purpose, as it is based on what Unum/Atos/Maximus et al call "disability analysis".
If someone has an obvious disability, it does not mean they are ill and it does not mean they are incapable of work.
If someone is ill, acutely or chronically, it does not mean they are disabled.
The WCA assumes that having a functional ability means that a person is capable of work; someone vomiting on chemo is thus capable of work because they will pass all the physical descriptors in the test.
Someone who is physically disabled to the point they are wheelchair-dependent may not pas the physical descriptors, and be allowed to claim ESA, even though they would probably not describe themselves as ill.

It's a mess - and I apologise if I sound patronising, as I know you are aware of these things; but this goes to the core of what current thinking on sickness and disability benefits is all about.
There is no understanding in many of our politicians how illness and disability have been hijacked by vested interests, and the assumptions made by those interests have become the norm.

The bio/psych/social model of disability has been warped to the extent that it is unrecognisable. I absolutely support Labour in it's plan to offer as much help as possible to people with disabilities (who are generally well) to get into work if they want to and to be spared the discrimination and hate they encounter so often and in increasing numbers.
However, I cannot stress often or strongly enough my belief that Labour are not treating this issue properly - their manifesto does not, as most of their policy statements do not, address the issue that the majority of people who claim ESA do so because they are ill. In fact, in order to claim at all a doctor has to opine in writing that illness has rendered you incapable of work.

If I am a disabled person now, it's because I am ill. No amount of good ideas for disabled people will make me capable of work.
That's why I believe that what is needed is a benefit for ill people to claim at a basic rate for 6 months; then to have a proper medical assessment conducted by a doctor; then to have jobsearch support on JSA if found fit for work, or a long-term benefit award at a higher rate indefinitely if the illness is unlikely to or will definitely never get better, with the option of permitted work if a person is able sporadically.

That's Incapacity Benefit, that is......
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by citizenJA »

@Ephemerid
You're in my thoughts, my friend. I've been concerned. I'm under great strain & regret I'm not able to do more to help my friends at this time.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by citizenJA »

From Ephemerid's post
Example - I am ill due to COPD, arthritis, and a few other things. This is the constant. Sometimes I am debilitated to the extent that I cannot physically manage the basic activities of daily living unassisted. That makes me disabled too when that happens, if not all the time.
The reason why I am incapable of work is illness, which give rise to disability on occasion - but the illness is key.
Someone who is visually impaired to the point of functional blindness is disabled. If in otherwise good health, they are not ill.

This is why the WCA is unfit for purpose, as it is based on what Unum/Atos/Maximus et al call "disability analysis".
If someone has an obvious disability, it does not mean they are ill and it does not mean they are incapable of work.
If someone is ill, acutely or chronically, it does not mean they are disabled.
The WCA assumes that having a functional ability means that a person is capable of work; someone vomiting on chemo is thus capable of work because they will pass all the physical descriptors in the test.
Someone who is physically disabled to the point they are wheelchair-dependent may not pas the physical descriptors, and be allowed to claim ESA, even though they would probably not describe themselves as ill.
I've never read a more complete & clear description of the differences between ill &/or disabled, the classifications of WCA. Thank you.
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by PorFavor »

Cameron defends Shapps over Wikipedia allegations, saying he 'does a great job'
Doing what, exactly? Or even vaguely - I'll settle for that.
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by pk1 »

@Ephe
I apologise if I sound patronising, as I know you are aware of these things;
*cough* - yes, somewhat :roll:

As well as posting essays on here though, your knowledge & skill at describing the differences would be a fantastic bonus to the Labour party. You might just be the person to guide them into making disability & sickness policy that fits a greater number than at present but there will never be a time when any party can create a policy that will be adequate for all circumstances & all claimants.
Last edited by pk1 on Wed 22 Apr, 2015 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by pk1 »

PorFavor wrote:
Cameron defends Shapps over Wikipedia allegations, saying he 'does a great job'
Doing what, exactly? Or even vaguely - I'll settle for that.
Entertaining the nation ?
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

Signs of OGRFG beginning to distance himself from Sebastian Shapps-Green? Could be something momentous about to happen (post-election obvs), the first time a sinking ship has left the rat.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
pk1
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by pk1 »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Signs of OGRFG beginning to distance himself from Sebastian Shapps-Green? Could be something momentous about to happen (post-election obvs), the first time a sinking ship has left the rat.
Isn't that because Cameron knows he himself won't be in post after May 8th so showing loyalty to his colleagues is no longer necessary, perhaps ?
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Even now though, much of the MSM obediently parroted the Shapps claim it was "all Labour's fault" without comment or criticism.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by pk1 »

Andrew Sparrow has posted up a link to Atul Hatwal's latest 'Labour is doomed' rant.

http://labour-uncut.co.uk/2015/04/22/la ... c-battles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He says, on Tory manifesto promises,
Right to buy in particular is so attractive to tenants in social housing, the financial incentive so great, that Labour now runs the real risk of disproportionately boosting the Tory vote if canvassers continue to blitz social housing developments.
Here's the evidence of just how popular it is - yup, the majority oppose it ! Sorry Atul, you've got it wrong - again.
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 22nd April 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Ask the tedious know nothing troll why money has been pouring in on the betting exchanges for Ed to be the next PM since the weekend, then?

(this has continued in the last 24 hours, btw - despite the MSM "SNP silver bullet for the Tories" excitement)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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