Tuesday 28th April 2015

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:10 am

StephenDolan wrote:I'm wondering if Owen Jones' pragmatic 'Labour aren't radical enough but we must get the Tories out now' viewpoint being expressed will become reflected by Russell Brand?

I shouldn't put too much faith in Brand. If his following of young people listened to him about not voting, there's a strong possibility they won't have bothered to register.

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:11 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
yahyah wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: Conspiracy. I'd stake my life on it.
'

I feel it is too much of a coincidence sometimes, that Cameron must have known the outcome for Labour. But he'd have to have been Mystic Meg.
Normally when a party loses, and its leader has to resign, as Salmond did, there's a period in the wilderness and wound licking.

Who predicted the Sturgeon mania/SNP surge ? I'm sure someone did but was too relieved at the No vote to give it any thought.
I think Cameron was doing what he's been doing for most of the last five years, focussing on the lost Kippers. I think it was just sheer idiocy that he thought that a No vote meant the thing was done and dusted, and people would accept it when he effectively said 'ok, shut up now Scotland, you've had your fun, it's time to show some regard to the people who really matter but have been quietly tolerating your nonsense'.

Having said that, if someone had offered him the result of 'saving' the Union AND losing all the Scottish Labour MPs, I have no doubt he'd have grabbed it.

Edit: I suspect the assault on the SNP of the rightwing media is in part calculated to drive moderate Scots into the arms of the SNP

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:11 am

ephemerid wrote: Sleb endorsements - sadly, they're needed to a degree.

I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to - some people really are stupid enough to vote for a party because they like the slebs who support it.

Labour has - thus far - Martin Freeman, his wife Amanda Abbingdon, David Tennant, Eddie Izzard, Daniel Radcliffe, Robert Webb, Stephen Fry,
Philippa and Grayson Perry, Nick Hewer (from the Apprentice), Frank Skinner, singers Lily Allen and Paloma Faith, David Morrissey (who I think is a terrific actor and he's lovely in real life....swoon....), the fantastic Paul O'Grady, and the wonderful force of nature that is Jo Brand.

Not forgetting Stephen Hawking, Ross Kemp, J K Rowling, Emma Thompson, Alan Rickman, Ben Elton & Sally Lindsay

fedup59 · Post by **fedup59** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:15 am

Okay I'll try again - I was trying to reply to Robert's post but looks like I was far too wordy for the space available so here it goes.

Morning all

I think Robert that it was part of a George Osborne strategy. Murdoch upped the anti quite nicely with his constitutional flirting, giving the yes vote a lot more energy but it ultimately frightened them when it went a bit further than anticipated and tory panic set in. Calling on Labour to save the UK was not part of the original plan (which was to undermine Labour in one of its heartlands) but was then played by our media as though it was their fault in the first place!!

I think the biggest strategic mistake Labour made in the indyref was to fail to argue for the collective history of people’s fights for the rights/ principles we share. I’ve always believed they should never have been within the all party No campaign but argued for the victories across the UK that had been forged through active solidarity and left the Tories and Libdems to do their own arguments. I understand the rationale but always felt it weakened the cultural importance of Scotland’s self perceived socialist/ left wing sense, which is what the SNP are stealing.

I feel that SNP have picked up the UKIP vote (basically because anything can be claimed as Westminster’s fault and they claim to be offering people a chance to be politically active without the boring bit of being responsible for the consequences of being power). The media are giving the SNP a Farage style free ride with no examination of what they actually have done when voted into power in Europe or Scotland.

The purely party gain and sheer audacity of the strategy (at the expense of the UK) says Osborne to me – it’s what he’s done to the economy after all. Everyone keeps drivelling on about how brilliant he is and this has that kind of reckless arrogance stamped all over it.

Ultimately though I don’t believe that the SNP will gain all the seats the polls indicate. Firstly, I think the polls are being manipulated by the same elite group that is managing the whole narrative, secondly I think a lot of people in Scotland are keeping their heads down and thirdly it seems to me to ignore a lot of the political dynamics at local level. But without the SNP involved I think the narrative would still have tried to disenfranchise the Scots at UK level because exactly the same arguments would have been used about the legitimacy of a Labour victory involving Scottish MPs.

God I’ve just clarified my thoughts – Labour have to win in England (my guess is the same arguments would be used about Wales if they win on the basis of a few Welsh MPs making the difference) or the continued narrative will be about an illegitimate victory in England. When Labour win, an English constitutional convention is a priority to devolve power but also to stop the Tories and the media using the non English UK representation as invalid because we don’t vote Tory.

Anyway that's one of the reasons I rarely comment (too wordy) by the time I've worked out what I think everything has moved on! I would like to give a general thank you to all for the political insights here - it keeps me sane and since I've given up on the MSM it also keeps me informed so Cheers for that.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:16 am

Mornin' all

@Ephe and Show: have a successful day out on the estate!

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:18 am

Its OK for some of course who seem to get away with murder and come out smelling of roses

The entrepreneur Emma Harrison has made £20m from the sale of her controversial welfare-to-work business A4e.

She sold the Sheffield business to Staffline Group in a deal worth £34.5m. The new owners said the A4e brand is “too tarnished” and will be relaunched as People Plus.

Ms Harrison declined to comment when contacted by The Yorkshire Post today.

Her lucrative exit is the latest twist in the 50-year-old’s career.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business ... -1-7231725" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks to Val Foster on Twitter for this shocker

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:22 am

Good lord,there are more tan one thousand comments below Win tours piece of gossip re Ed/Brand.
Funny old world.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:25 am

I saw Kaye Adams was trending so clicked throught o find out why & it turns out she has interviewed Nicola Sturgeon.

The cybernats are fuuuuming so I'm guessing it didn't go in Sturgeons favour !

https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q ... 2&src=tren" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:44 am

pk1 wrote:
ephemerid wrote: Sleb endorsements - sadly, they're needed to a degree.

I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to - some people really are stupid enough to vote for a party because they like the slebs who support it.

Labour has - thus far - Martin Freeman, his wife Amanda Abbingdon, David Tennant, Eddie Izzard, Daniel Radcliffe, Robert Webb, Stephen Fry,
Philippa and Grayson Perry, Nick Hewer (from the Apprentice), Frank Skinner, singers Lily Allen and Paloma Faith, David Morrissey (who I think is a terrific actor and he's lovely in real life....swoon....), the fantastic Paul O'Grady, and the wonderful force of nature that is Jo Brand.

Not forgetting Stephen Hawking, Ross Kemp, J K Rowling, Emma Thompson, Alan Rickman, Ben Elton & Sally Lindsay

And of course Patrick Stewart AND Ian McKellen; with both Professor X AND Magneto onside how can things go wrong?

Hope all goes well for you and Show today Ephe.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:44 am

ephemerid wrote:@yahyah - thanks for the encouragement (and the compliment) - I shall do my best!

Sleb endorsements - sadly, they're needed to a degree.

I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to - some people really are stupid enough to vote for a party because they like the slebs who support it.

Labour has - thus far - Martin Freeman, his wife Amanda Abbingdon, David Tennant, Eddie Izzard, Daniel Radcliffe, Robert Webb, Stephen Fry,
Philippa and Grayson Perry, Nick Hewer (from the Apprentice), Frank Skinner, singers Lily Allen and Paloma Faith, David Morrissey (who I think is a terrific actor and he's lovely in real life....swoon....), the fantastic Paul O'Grady, and the wonderful force of nature that is Jo Brand.

The modern caring down-wid-da-kidz Tories have - Cilla, Cliff, Paul Daniels and his vacuous sidekick, Sol "Sulk" Campbell, Myleene "Mansion Tax" Klass, Jim Davidson, Gary Barlow, Peter Stringfellow, the idiotic Luisa Zissman, and the hideous John McCririck.

On the basis of this, I solemnly declare that the Tories are the coolest party, like, evah.

Labour has Patrick Stewart!
Good morning, Beauty.
Good morning, everyone.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:45 am

pk1 wrote:
ephemerid wrote: Sleb endorsements - sadly, they're needed to a degree.

I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to - some people really are stupid enough to vote for a party because they like the slebs who support it.

Labour has - thus far - Martin Freeman, his wife Amanda Abbingdon, David Tennant, Eddie Izzard, Daniel Radcliffe, Robert Webb, Stephen Fry,
Philippa and Grayson Perry, Nick Hewer (from the Apprentice), Frank Skinner, singers Lily Allen and Paloma Faith, David Morrissey (who I think is a terrific actor and he's lovely in real life....swoon....), the fantastic Paul O'Grady, and the wonderful force of nature that is Jo Brand.

Not forgetting Stephen Hawking, Ross Kemp, J K Rowling, Emma Thompson, Alan Rickman, Ben Elton & Sally Lindsay

Yeah but no but yeah but......

The Tories are waaaayyyy cooler.

Like, they've got Cheryl TweedyColeFernandezVersiniWotevah who is on the telly all the time doing "Why aye man I'm worth it pet" adverts for hairspray plus extensions. She soooooooo hates the Mansion Tax. So she's voting, erm. Labour.....

OK. So maybe not her.

They've got Bill Murray (who he?) off the Bill and that nice Vinnie Jones. They're well hard.
They've got Joan Collins and her trowels-full of make-up and her husbands.
They've got Brucie. No, really. He's a National Treasure.
They've got Simon Cowell who knows talent when he sees it.
They've even got the Richard half of richardandjudy.

These are the intellectual titans of showbiz and are well known for their aymayzing work for charideeeeee.

I mean, who needs some bloke in a wheelchair with a brain the size of a planet or a world-famous author/philanthropist when you can have a selfie with One Direction?

I'm telling you, pk1, now we know OGRFG is actually, like, related to the Queen who is Kim Kardashian, there's only one way this election can go.

Not that they won't cheat anyway. Obvs.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:49 am

RobertSnozers wrote:@fedup59 - A lot to agree with there, thanks for taking the time to set all that out.

I wonder what happens if the Tories are the largest party but cannot get the numbers for a majority?

Even if, under those circumstances, Labour can form a minority government, the media and a chunk of the population would, I suspect, not accept it. The press, banging on as they are about the danger of a 'constitutional crisis' would be only too happy to trigger one.

Good piece from George Eaton on this

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... ory-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

even-if-miliband-second-placed-prime-minister-it-would-still-be-victory-labour

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 10:50 am

#NotGeorgeOsbornesDay

#EdBallsDay

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 11:22 am

So - to try to calm my nerves I've begun decorating my bedroom. I'm hoping if I get too het up and angry, sploshing a bit of paint around will ease the tension.

I can't do too much at once, so I aim to do a bit of painting and then pop back to the computer...

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 11:35 am

ohsocynical wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:I'm wondering if Owen Jones' pragmatic 'Labour aren't radical enough but we must get the Tories out now' viewpoint being expressed will become reflected by Russell Brand?
I shouldn't put too much faith in Brand. If his following of young people listened to him about not voting, there's a strong possibility they won't have bothered to register.

Quite.

Brand has done his damage.

I cannot stand the man, a moron's moron. Peddling easy answers to difficult questions to the young.

His heart is in the right place, but he is like a 6th former who has excitedly just discovered politics for the first time. Except he is 39.

If he endorses Labour, fine, but Ed M should never stand next to him.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 11:48 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:I'm wondering if Owen Jones' pragmatic 'Labour aren't radical enough but we must get the Tories out now' viewpoint being expressed will become reflected by Russell Brand?
I shouldn't put too much faith in Brand. If his following of young people listened to him about not voting, there's a strong possibility they won't have bothered to register.
Quite.

Brand has done his damage.

I cannot stand the man, a moron's moron. Peddling easy answers to difficult questions to the young.

His heart is in the right place, but he is like a 6th former who has excitedly just discovered politics for the first time. Except he is 39.

If he endorses Labour, fine, but Ed M should never stand next to him.

LabourList has "Ed Miliband was spotted leaving the residence of comedian, activist, and famous non-voter Russell Brand last night. Rather than a late night canvassing session, Miliband was there to be interviewed for Brand’s politics-focussed YouTube series, The Trews (which, yes, is a portmanteau of “truth” and “news”)."

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 11:53 am

Just a little reminder that 'Scotland' and 'SNP' are not synonyms:

FLOUNDERING Labour and Liberal Democrat candidates in Scotland could escape defeat in next week’s election as people vote tactically to keep out the SNP, new research has found.

One in seven Scots will vote tactically in the election, according to a YouGov survey.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3756167

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 12:06 pm

Anyone seen Cameron addressing very bored looking workers on Politics Today? They don't look like they want to be there. Please give 'em something to do. Oh no, now it's the pretty one!

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 12:07 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:Just a little reminder that 'Scotland' and 'SNP' are not synonyms:

FLOUNDERING Labour and Liberal Democrat candidates in Scotland could escape defeat in next week’s election as people vote tactically to keep out the SNP, new research has found.

One in seven Scots will vote tactically in the election, according to a YouGov survey.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3756167

Sorry Eric,but I wish I had not read that.Sturgeon wishing Ed was bolder and brave enough to admit he wants to do a deal with the SNP?What a revolting mix of arrogance and deceit,all being lapped up by millions of Scots?
I am angry I swear that I will never,ever buy another thing made in Scotland,milk.cream,meat,whatever really.
She is full of vanity and spite.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 12:13 pm

Keith Harris has died, aged 67.

Poor Orville....

[youtube]TGnuMxFnc1k[/youtube]

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 12:24 pm

One in seven Scots will vote tactically in the election, according to a YouGov survey.

Come on you SCOTS!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 12:38 pm

‏@dwilliamsHSJ

Big political NHS election story coming up from HSJ at 1pm

They're health insurers aren't they? I Wonder what that is?

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 12:45 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
‏@dwilliamsHSJ

Big political NHS election story coming up from HSJ at 1pm
They're health insurers aren't they? I Wonder what that is?

No - it's the Health Service Journal.

NHS managers read it, mainly.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 12:46 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
‏@dwilliamsHSJ

Big political NHS election story coming up from HSJ at 1pm
They're health insurers aren't they? I Wonder what that is?

No, he means Health Service Journal - the one which rustinpeace used to quote from with some relish...but never gave us the link since he knew we'd pull it apart once his cherrypicking was exposed.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 12:47 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB · 20m20 minutes ago
CON take 1% lead with TNS

LAB 33% (-1), CON 34% (+2), LIB DEM 7% (-1), UKIP 15% (0), GREEN 5% (0), OTHER 5% (-1)

Weighted base for this survey is 608, of whom 172 (28% of the total) are in the 65+ age group. I'm not losing too much sleep over this poll.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 12:57 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
‏@dwilliamsHSJ

Big political NHS election story coming up from HSJ at 1pm
They're health insurers aren't they? I Wonder what that is?

HSJ announcing they recommend supporting the Cons ?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:01 pm

ephemerid wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
‏@dwilliamsHSJ

Big political NHS election story coming up from HSJ at 1pm
They're health insurers aren't they? I Wonder what that is?

No - it's the Health Service Journal.

NHS managers read it, mainly.

Well, I am multi-tasking

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:01 pm

pk1 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
‏@dwilliamsHSJ

Big political NHS election story coming up from HSJ at 1pm
They're health insurers aren't they? I Wonder what that is?
HSJ announcing they recommend supporting the Cons ?

Rusty, of whatever it is calling itself these days (BiggusDickus?), would be delighted.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:03 pm

Heres' the HSJ thing but you need to be registered

http://www.hsj.co.uk/news/policy/exclus ... T92e1flaSo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:03 pm

I've been over at the G and I have to say it's turned into a comic.

Nicholas Anagram has penned an article on the growth figures - and the sub-heading says that Cameron is telling people that a Labour government would undo all this good work......ie. the figures are bad, but Labour would undo this, and this is not good.

Has this fat blob actually got a brain cell to call his own? Do people actually believe a word he says?

BTL isn't as bad as I'd expect, with quite a few people posting who appear to be supportive of Labour. Lots of posts on how a low-wage, low-tax economy has a lot to do with why the economy is slowing down again/still.....
But there are plenty droning on about how Labour will hike up taxes, that rich people pay 30% of the income tax collected as it is (neatly avoiding the fact that they get 70% of the income). Morons all.

Re. LibDems sending out newpaper-esque propaganda - we've had yet another disguised LibDem newspaper today. It was a Courier this time.
We've had a Herald, a Challnger, and now a Courier.
Next - a quasi-Mail, a pretend Express, and a yellow People's Friend.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:04 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
pk1 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: They're health insurers aren't they? I Wonder what that is?
HSJ announcing they recommend supporting the Cons ?
Rusty, of whatever it is calling itself these days (BiggusDickus?), would be delighted.

Wouldn't he just !

FWIW, the 'big story' is:

HSJ's pre election poll: http://www.hsj.co.uk/news/policy/exclus ... ut-through" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;… Tory £8bn pledge hasn't cut through.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:04 pm

from the HSJ

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:06 pm

Clegg (again,sorry):
"I just sort of wallop these sort of things that you have to hit. I try not
to put a face on the things that I’m striking with my feet and my hands
… Sometimes Ed Balls might flicker through my imagination."

Would you end tuition fees? Anything.
Would you fight for liberties? Anything
Would you stand up against the Tories? Anything
Even fight Ed Balls?
What fisticuffs?
I'd do anything, for one vote,
anything once I'd got your vote,
anything once in.
Yes you know I'd say anything for another chance,
I'd lie & smear and manipulate,
Betray you all & collaborate.
Yes I'd say & do anything for You.
(by which of course,I mean me.)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:07 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
pk1 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: They're health insurers aren't they? I Wonder what that is?
HSJ announcing they recommend supporting the Cons ?
Rusty, of whatever it is calling itself these days (BiggusDickus?), would be delighted.

Nah, BD is just a anti-CiF troll who snipes at everyone and hasn't a single original thought in his body.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:11 pm

I searched to see where tinybgoat's Clegg quote came from as I've been off line all morning.

Clegg kicks Balls during workout sessions
Nick Clegg has said he imagines he is beating up Ed Balls during his weekly kickboxing classes.

The Liberal Democrat leader said that he used his training sessions to vent his anger at Labour’s shadow chancellor.
http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk/Cle ... z3YbaLIzZo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh dear. No doubt he visualises himself cuddling up to Cameron & Osborne.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:13 pm

Lorraine Mackay retweeted

This might help explain about the polls SW added,

Agent P @AgentP22
Joan McAlpine and her SNP cohorts were actively encouraging their followers to join Yougov a while back.

So beware..

Interesting

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:14 pm

Rebecca wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:Just a little reminder that 'Scotland' and 'SNP' are not synonyms:

FLOUNDERING Labour and Liberal Democrat candidates in Scotland could escape defeat in next week’s election as people vote tactically to keep out the SNP, new research has found.

One in seven Scots will vote tactically in the election, according to a YouGov survey.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3756167
Sorry Eric,but I wish I had not read that.Sturgeon wishing Ed was bolder and brave enough to admit he wants to do a deal with the SNP?What a revolting mix of arrogance and deceit,all being lapped up by millions of Scots?
I am angry I swear that I will never,ever buy another thing made in Scotland,milk.cream,meat,whatever really.
She is full of vanity and spite.

Nationalism is based on hate, arrogance, greed and perceived grievance. (I'll refrain from drawing parallels with the not too distant past). The SNP has a single goal - to promote division and hence break up the UK - which it is getting disconcertingly near unless the GE and SE stop them in their tracks.
I have said on several occasions that I find the opinion polls dubious when it comes to the level of SNP support. Time will tell, but remember that the SNP have form when it comes to attempting to rig them (Panelbase had to stop polling new Scottish registrants prior to the referendum).

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3755156

George Orwell, in 1945, wrote an interesting essay on nationalism. (apologies if I've posted the link before).

http://orwell.ru/library/essays/nationa ... lish/e_nat

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:16 pm

Harold Evans - 28 April 2015 - 'the long read'

How Thatcher and Murdoch made their secret deal
In 1981, Mrs Thatcher needed a boost from the press. By supporting Rupert Murdoch’s bid for the Times and Sunday Times, she made sure she got it.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... ecret-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:16 pm

Arghh....husband has just switched on BBC News - Cameron with sleeves rolled up, 'passionate', waving his arms about and spouting crap about the poor GDP figures.

If you take into account the bounce that low fuel/heating oil prices was supposed to give it could have been even worse then ?

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 28 Apr, 2015 1:16 pm