Thursday 30th April 2015

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nickyinnorfolk
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by nickyinnorfolk »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
nickyinnorfolk wrote:
yahyah wrote: One of the (many) things that's been bugging me is all those ultra lefty types who are screaming for the end of Labour and are pro SNP are the same people who usually (rightly) squeal about Murdoch.
Yet they make excuses or ignore the behind the scenes deals that must be going on now.
Today's front page of the Sun in England/Wales features Cameron as a BABY, I kid you not. They're evidently trying to link the imminent royal birth with support for the Tories. It fails on so many levels. It's also very telling that the Scottish Sun is bigging up The Sturge. I wonder if this will alert some of the Scots currently disillusioned with Labour to the fact that support for the SNP is exactly what Murdoch and the Tories want them to fall for.
It's ludicrous isn't it Nicky?

And the Scots one says 'Vote SNP' and the English one says 'Vote Tory - Reason No 2 to stop the SNP running the country' :o
Oh yes ... Posted before I saw your comment!
utopiandreams
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

nickyinnorfolk wrote:..(no pun intended) ...
I again bow to your intellect, Nicky, as had it been me it would have. But you know what they say about puns, don't you? Which may explains things.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

frightful_oik wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:The Green figure certainly looks rogue. Not bothered at all by the Scotland being out of line: Scotland is a tiny share.
Overall it is the trend that matters, and the trend is squeaky bum.

Does anyone live in a Lab target marginal?
Sadly no. Maidstone & The Weald (and "The Weald" is the problem) would vote for a turd in a blue rosette which, interestingly, is pretty much what we've got.
I used to live down there. I think it was Widi when I was there.
Would have been, yes. This one is even worse, at least Anne had a 'quirky' personality.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
utopiandreams
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

nickyinnorfolk wrote:... Today's front page of the Sun in England/Wales features Cameron as a BABY, I kid you not. They're evidently trying to link the imminent royal birth with support for the Tories. It fails on so many levels...
Yeah I saw that last night. Nicky, maybe it was someone here who posted it. It's rather tempting to visit their site and repeat my nurse-maid yarn (far more appropriate), but I wouldn't go there myself.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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Willow904
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by Willow904 »

nickyinnorfolk wrote:
yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Areas should be able to declare themselves 'Sun free zones' - as in nuclear free zones. Liverpool saw them / it for what it is ... wish more places would wake up to the gross manipulation.
One of the (many) things that's been bugging me is all those ultra lefty types who are screaming for the end of Labour and are pro SNP are the same people who usually (rightly) squeal about Murdoch.
Yet they make excuses or ignore the behind the scenes deals that must be going on now.
Today's front page of the Sun in England/Wales features Cameron as a BABY, I kid you not. They're evidently trying to link the imminent royal birth with support for the Tories. It fails on so many levels. It's also very telling that the Scottish Sun is bigging up The Sturge. I wonder if this will alert some of the Scots currently disillusioned with Labour to the fact that support for the SNP is exactly what Murdoch and the Tories want them to fall for.
There's always hope, I guess, but it was already so obvious that the SNP was tight with Murdoch that I can't help but feel that if it hasn't factored so far in Scottish thinking, this isn't going to change that. And of course, many SNP voters want independence as much as the SNP leadership and so a Tory win is not an issue for them, especially when they have Holyrood to protect them from the worst of Tory government policy. Labour need to win in rUK. It really is that simple. The unionist vote in Scotland is split, while the nationalist vote isn't. You can't really fight against that. I know I wouldn't be willing to vote Libdem or Tory to keep the SNP out. I'd just vote Labour and hope that nationalism isn't as rife in Scotland as the polls suggest.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

Just posted this in the Other Place:
"Uncontrolled immigration has played a part in fading of British culture"

Come on, somebody, put me out of my misery. I've asked numerous people on here what is this mythical "British culture" that we are losing and, not once, have I received a coherent reply. So my challenge to you all is what is this grail-like object that unites cockney, Geordie, Scouser, Aberdonian, South Walian ...... everybody from Lands End to John O'Groats ...... what is it? Because I'm 53 (so older than The Leader) and I'm buggered if I know what it is!!
I'm not holding my breath while I wait for a coherent answer. Oh, and the first one who mentions Shakepeare or Morris Dancing gets a slap! :popcorn:
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

utopiandreams wrote:@rebeccariots2

Since you've thanked me for my bit of nonsense earlier can you answer me something please as I'm a little concerned for my sanity. I've just got in from seeing my eldest and gave him the account of my daily tale but he had no idea where I was coming from today having never heard the expression of giving or offering someone a balloon on a stick. I've since discovered that Google and Bing are not my friends. I haven't made it up, have I? The expression that is, obviously I have my tale.

Btw he's suggested people must be dying for the election to be over so I stop coming up with such nonsense.
Sorry for late reply. Only just come in for a break between clients. I've seen balloons on sticks - whether it's a known phrase I don't know. But I love your tales for their utter wackiness - I'm not questioning the accuracy of any part tbh - I'm just going with the flow.
Working on the wild side.
utopiandreams
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:... Oh, and the first one who mentions Shakepeare or Morris Dancing gets a slap! :popcorn:
On the knee I hope, TheGrimSqueaker.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
WelshIan
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by WelshIan »

Good morning! afternoon!
I am currently limiting my exposure to the news, etc as I am disgusted by the way the Tories are running their campaign, and the support they are getting in the MSM.
The Tory campaign can be summed up by the quote attributed to Socrates ‘When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser’.

A real downsides of a fixed term parliament is that the campaigning goes on for months, not just a few weeks.

One of the things that has been worrying me recently is the attempt to call into question the legitimacy of a Labour government supported by the SNP, in whatever form this support would take.
A couple of recent articles cover this better than I can, I’ve included the conclusions of both:

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04/27 ... one-tonto/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(I assume it’s a Scottish Nationalist site, this is the only article I’ve read and it is pretty decent. Thanks to someone BTL on the article for the Socrates quote!)
All I know now is that on May 8th, the UK Labour Party may well find that it has to defend the legitimacy of an SNP victory in Scotland – that wipes them out – in order to defend it’s own legitimacy to govern the UK.
Who’d have thought we’d get here as soon as this?
Breaking Up Britain was always too big a job for Scotland. When you want a thing done properly, send for the Tories.
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/queen-pa ... uitson-345" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If Buckingham Palace can be convinced – through the creation of an atmosphere where a Labour-SNP coalition is considered unthinkable – to retain Cameron above a Labour leader that can command a majority in the House, that really would be a power grab that would raise eyebrows in a banana republic. It would make a total mockery of the British "constitution". The fact that the Palace have even had to brief against the idea – that it's even a possibility to the Conservatives that the Palace would overrule the electorate – is astonishing. Yet it seems likely that is exactly what the Tories have been sounding out.
Short of some major reversals in the polls, one way or another we are about to enter the realm of serious constitutional breakdown.
Apologies if we’ve had either of the articles before.

Edited to show I know what time of day it is. and I am trying to be :zen:
SpinningHugo
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by SpinningHugo »

Legitimacy

If Lab + SNP were a majority, and Labour formed a minority government (still, despite today's polls, the most likely outcome in my view) would that be a legitimate government?

Of course it would be. Those are the rules, and so long as we have a United Kingdom the Scottish MPs get as much say as anyone else. You don't get to govern just because you are the largest party. We have first past the post for seats, not for who forms a government.

Could the SNP 'hold the government to ransom'. No, not really. They would have far less influence than the Lib Dems in a Tory-Lib Dem coalition because (at least formally) they are to the left of Labour, whilst the Lib Dems are to the left of the Tories.

So, the Lib Dems could block any attempt by the Tories to repeal the Human Rights Act, by simply voting against them with everyone else.

The SNP could not block any Labour attempt to replace Trident, the Tories would vote with Labour on this.

There may be some pieces of legislation that it would be hard to get through, but frankly most of that would be no loss. Do we need another Labour Terrorism Act whipped through by the government? No we don't.

And if you look at the legislation enacted over the last five years

(list here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ac ... %93present" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

)

The vast majority of it is either uncontroversial (eg the Third Parties Rights Against Insurers Act) or unnecessary to govern.

A minority administration does lose much of its (administrative) power to control Parliament (chairs of select committees and so on), but I doubt whether Con + Lib Dem will be a majority this time anyway (Con + LIb Dem minoritycoalition, with DUP support outside is the next most likely outcome).

So, once Miliband is in office, he will have most of the levers of power that he needs.

But, the problem comes if legislation is passed using SNP votes to pass legislation in the rest of the UK in matters that are devolved to Scotland

The SNP position has been, up until now, that they would not vote on such devolved matters. The new position is that they will vote if it has some impact on Scotland. As almost anything can have some impact on Scotland (as it will on the Republic of Ireland) that is no restraint at all.

I don't think that is ok (this is where others here will disagree with me).

If, for example, the Health and Social Care Act is repealed (on the basis that the English NHS has some impact on Scottish finances) using SNP votes, that is legally valid, but politically illegitimate. If this is ok, how is devolution legitimate, as rest of UK MPs have no say in equivalent matters in Scotland that have some impact in the UK. The SNP will, of course, say that devolution is not ok either, and that the only solution is independence. Calls in England for separation will increase.

See, the ever brilliant Martin Wolf in the FT (this is what I think)

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/105f62f4-e1d0 ... z3YmivgoD2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This problem is exacerbated because SNP MPs only purport to represent Scotland (see the party's constitution), unlike Scottish Labout MPs who purport to represent the UK.

The Tories will shout.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

utopiandreams wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:... Oh, and the first one who mentions Shakepeare or Morris Dancing gets a slap! :popcorn:
On the knee I hope, TheGrimSqueaker.
Across the back of the head, which is what they deserve. OpenSore tried a smartarse answer, needless to say.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

WelshIan wrote:Good morning!
I am currently limiting my exposure to the news, etc as I am disgusted by the way the Tories are running their campaign, and the support they are getting in the MSM.
The Tory campaign can be summed up by the quote attributed to Socrates ‘When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser’.

A real downsides of a fixed term parliament is that the campaigning goes on for months, not just a few weeks.

One of the things that has been worrying me recently is the attempt to call into question the legitimacy of a Labour government supported by the SNP, in whatever form this support would take.
A couple of recent articles cover this better than I can, I’ve included the conclusions of both:

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/04/27 ... one-tonto/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(I assume it’s a Scottish Nationalist site, this is the only article I’ve read and it is pretty decent. Thanks to someone BTL on the article for the Socrates quote!)
All I know now is that on May 8th, the UK Labour Party may well find that it has to defend the legitimacy of an SNP victory in Scotland – that wipes them out – in order to defend it’s own legitimacy to govern the UK.
Who’d have thought we’d get here as soon as this?
Breaking Up Britain was always too big a job for Scotland. When you want a thing done properly, send for the Tories.
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/queen-pa ... uitson-345" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If Buckingham Palace can be convinced – through the creation of an atmosphere where a Labour-SNP coalition is considered unthinkable – to retain Cameron above a Labour leader that can command a majority in the House, that really would be a power grab that would raise eyebrows in a banana republic. It would make a total mockery of the British "constitution". The fact that the Palace have even had to brief against the idea – that it's even a possibility to the Conservatives that the Palace would overrule the electorate – is astonishing. Yet it seems likely that is exactly what the Tories have been sounding out.
Short of some major reversals in the polls, one way or another we are about to enter the realm of serious constitutional breakdown.
Apologies if we’ve had either of the articles before.
The hypocrisy of this Tory party knows no bounds. Is their government not legitimate because they only have one Tory MP in Scotland? Have they ever recognised that their wipeout in Scotland occurred well before the current potential purge of Labour - so they have even less right to start proclaiming about this. I was disgusted by Gove the other night blaming Labour for the rise of the SNP and potential break up of the union because they could lose so many MPs .... but no one countered by pointing out the lack of Tory representation in Scotland ....
Working on the wild side.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by AngryAsWell »

A cruel society is being built. Voting Labour begins the fightback

"But let me just be upfront to those who share my frustrations with Labour. If you are in a marginal seat, you may vote for a candidate you believe is closer to your views. You will feel a sudden rush of exhilaration and satisfaction. But will that feeling survive an announcement a few hours later that a Tory or a Lib Dem has been returned as your MP? Will it endure David Cameron standing and grinning victoriously on the steps of No 10, or another five years of George Osborne, of Iain Duncan Smith, of Michael Gove?"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ights-tory" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
utopiandreams
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:... OpenSore tried a smartarse answer, needless to say.
I generally skip his comments, TGS, after entering a cul-de-sac with him once where he attacked me using an argument that I had conceded in my very first post (before the exchange). I shouldn't have bothered as his initial response was a single word. Anyway having just looked to see what you were on about, I shall resume my normal practice regarding his posts.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Iain Martin ‏@iainmartin1 2h2 hours ago
Has anyone done any work on SNP rebellions? Looking for examples of MPs or MSPs defying leader's orders. Can't find anything.
The current bunch of candidates have been asked to commit to not voting or speaking out against the SNP position. I wonder why Martin is interested in this ... because of the potential one party state that Scotland might become?
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ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Cameron fury as desperate Lib Dems leak Tories' 'secret' welfare cuts: Alexander reveals Conservatives are plotting to 'con' British people by slashing child tax credits and child benefits in £8billion purge
Danny Alexander exposes 'secret' plans by Tories for £8billion welfare cuts
Accuses Conservatives a 'con' by keeping cuts secret until after election
Tories hit back and brand their former coalition partners 'desperate'
Growing dissent in Lib Dem ranks over a second coaliton with Tories

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3Yn5CiIFT
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
PorFavor
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by PorFavor »

From Ed Miliband's Q & A session in West Yorkhire -

Q: I’ve been on benefit through ill health since 2005 after a serious car accident. What’s Labour going to do about people like me on small benefits?

The rhetoric of this government stigmatises people on benefits, Miliband says. I can’t promise you an increase in benefits but we will try and deal with costs you’re facing, like energy costs.

Q: How responsive are you to mental health needs?

We are responsive. Mental health is one of the most unseen and unaddressed challenges of our time. I want to make it more of a priority in the NHS. People should work if they can but not be forced to if they can’t. (Guardian Election Blog)
Well, you can't say fairer than that. At last someone from Labour (to whit, one Ed Miliband) has spoken out, specifically, about "stigmatisation".



Edited to jiggle words about to make sense
Last edited by PorFavor on Thu 30 Apr, 2015 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
utopiandreams
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

Liz Truss says that University graduates earn £220,000 more during their working life. My initial response was that it were no longer true. It seems Andrew Neil was able to corroborate that with recent studies. It doesn't stop Tory claims however.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:The Green figure certainly looks rogue. Not bothered at all by the Scotland being out of line: Scotland is a tiny share.
Overall it is the trend that matters, and the trend is squeaky bum.

Does anyone live in a Lab target marginal?
Sadly no. Maidstone & The Weald (and "The Weald" is the problem) would vote for a turd in a blue rosette which, interestingly, is pretty much what we've got.
A poll there released yesterday had the Tories only 5 points ahead of the LibDems. OK it was commissioned by Clegg's gang, but still.......
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 22m22 minutes ago
The June welfare "summer reading paper" from Iain Duncan Smith to the Quad clearly says it comes after a request from the Prime Minister.

steve hawkes ‏@steve_hawkes 14m14 minutes ago
.. @patrickwintour Simon Hughes "This isn't new news" - have a word Patrick!

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 9m9 minutes ago
.@steve_hawkes Hi Steve are you pro welfare cuts south of the border and totally opposed north of the border ?
Wintour shooting down a couple of canards there - good on him.
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PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

SpinningHugo wrote:Legitimacy

If Lab + SNP were a majority, and Labour formed a minority government (still, despite today's polls, the most likely outcome in my view) would that be a legitimate government?

Of course it would be. Those are the rules, and so long as we have a United Kingdom the Scottish MPs get as much say as anyone else. You don't get to govern just because you are the largest party. We have first past the post for seats, not for who forms a government.

Could the SNP 'hold the government to ransom'. No, not really. They would have far less influence than the Lib Dems in a Tory-Lib Dem coalition because (at least formally) they are to the left of Labour, whilst the Lib Dems are to the left of the Tories.

So, the Lib Dems could block any attempt by the Tories to repeal the Human Rights Act, by simply voting against them with everyone else.

The SNP could not block any Labour attempt to replace Trident, the Tories would vote with Labour on this.

There may be some pieces of legislation that it would be hard to get through, but frankly most of that would be no loss. Do we need another Labour Terrorism Act whipped through by the government? No we don't.

And if you look at the legislation enacted over the last five years

(list here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ac ... %93present" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

)

The vast majority of it is either uncontroversial (eg the Third Parties Rights Against Insurers Act) or unnecessary to govern.

A minority administration does lose much of its (administrative) power to control Parliament (chairs of select committees and so on), but I doubt whether Con + Lib Dem will be a majority this time anyway (Con + LIb Dem minoritycoalition, with DUP support outside is the next most likely outcome).

So, once Miliband is in office, he will have most of the levers of power that he needs.

But, the problem comes if legislation is passed using SNP votes to pass legislation in the rest of the UK in matters that are devolved to Scotland

The SNP position has been, up until now, that they would not vote on such devolved matters. The new position is that they will vote if it has some impact on Scotland. As almost anything can have some impact on Scotland (as it will on the Republic of Ireland) that is no restraint at all.

I don't think that is ok (this is where others here will disagree with me).

If, for example, the Health and Social Care Act is repealed (on the basis that the English NHS has some impact on Scottish finances) using SNP votes, that is legally valid, but politically illegitimate. If this is ok, how is devolution legitimate, as rest of UK MPs have no say in equivalent matters in Scotland that have some impact in the UK. The SNP will, of course, say that devolution is not ok either, and that the only solution is independence. Calls in England for separation will increase.

See, the ever brilliant Martin Wolf in the FT (this is what I think)

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/105f62f4-e1d0 ... z3YmivgoD2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This problem is exacerbated because SNP MPs only purport to represent Scotland (see the party's constitution), unlike Scottish Labout MPs who purport to represent the UK.

The Tories will shout.
This is why I think Miliband will have to set in stone his promised constitutional convention and promise a return to the polls once it is complete. That way, the West Lothian Question can be answered with a simple "Yes you are correct. It's not our fault. We're sorting it out and you'll get a chance to vote again afterwards."
PorFavor
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by PorFavor »

BBC querying the Sun's two-facededness (?). Tom Newton Dunn doing the old "two separate newspapers" routine. No mention, of course, of the one owner.
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

From Newsnight
Averaging across all of our simulated elections, and knowing what we know about the parties' decisions to field candidates, we would expect the following parties to lose the following number of deposits (cost in brackets):

Conservatives: 3 (£1,500)
Labour: 2 (£1,000)
Liberal Democrats: 155 (£77,500)
SNP: 0 (£0)
Plaid Cymru: 13 (£6,500)
Greens: 389 (£194,500)
UKIP: 94 (£47,000)
Eric_WLothian
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by Eric_WLothian »

nickyinnorfolk wrote: ...have re-registered as had trouble logging in for some reason! Username changed from 'Nicky' to Nicky in Norfolk.
As long as you're not NicciinGovan... :D
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

LabourList ‏@LabourList 32m32 minutes ago
Labour membership crosses the 200,000 mark - the highest level in 15 years http://labli.st/1DYgFEy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Iain Martin ‏@iainmartin1 2h2 hours ago
Has anyone done any work on SNP rebellions? Looking for examples of MPs or MSPs defying leader's orders. Can't find anything.
The current bunch of candidates have been asked to commit to not voting or speaking out against the SNP position. I wonder why Martin is interested in this ... because of the potential one party state that Scotland might become?
There were a few (list) MSPs elected in 2011 who rebelled over the SNP volte-face re Trident, but they then left (or were forced out of) the party completely.

It really is no exaggeration to describe the party's modus vivendi as Stalinist - but they still win the support of many who whined about NuLab "control freakery" :roll:

EDIT: I of course meant NATO, not Trident - maybe that is a future u-turn by them?
Last edited by AnatolyKasparov on Thu 30 Apr, 2015 3:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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yahyah
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Image

Even Vince Cable has ditched the Lib Dem tag, he is 'popular champion' & 'well respected local figure'
and emphasising his doctorate.

(from Political Scrapbook)
Last edited by yahyah on Thu 30 Apr, 2015 12:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Rafael Behr ‏@rafaelbehr 9m9 minutes ago
Will SNP fellow travellers on Eng left revise view of Murdoch press now Sun is backing Sturgeon surge? Yay progressive MSM! Or maybe not.
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Tish
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by Tish »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 22m22 minutes ago
The June welfare "summer reading paper" from Iain Duncan Smith to the Quad clearly says it comes after a request from the Prime Minister.

steve hawkes ‏@steve_hawkes 14m14 minutes ago
.. @patrickwintour Simon Hughes "This isn't new news" - have a word Patrick!

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 9m9 minutes ago
.@steve_hawkes Hi Steve are you pro welfare cuts south of the border and totally opposed north of the border ?
Wintour shooting down a couple of canards there - good on him.
Doesn't that mean that George Osborne has just been caught out in a bare faced lie?
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

utopiandreams wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:... OpenSore tried a smartarse answer, needless to say.
I generally skip his comments, TGS, after entering a cul-de-sac with him once where he attacked me using an argument that I had conceded in my very first post (before the exchange). I shouldn't have bothered as his initial response was a single word. Anyway having just looked to see what you were on about, I shall resume my normal practice regarding his posts.
I usually ignore him, but it was a direct (and predictably snarky) reply to my question so I gave him the courtesy of an answer. As he isn't even half as clever as he thinks he is I'm more than happy to let him keep digging while I laugh at him.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Has anyone seen any comments from Sturgeon or other senior SNP-ers on the Murdoch love-in ?
Am not being lazy, just haven't been online this morning and will be going out soon.

Will they risk the wrath of Rupert by telling it like it is about him ?
Or be held to account on what sort of contact they have had with him ?
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by Eric_WLothian »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Iain Martin ‏@iainmartin1 2h2 hours ago
Has anyone done any work on SNP rebellions? Looking for examples of MPs or MSPs defying leader's orders. Can't find anything.
The current bunch of candidates have been asked to commit to not voting or speaking out against the SNP position. I wonder why Martin is interested in this ... because of the potential one party state that Scotland might become?
There were a few (list) MSPs elected in 2011 who rebelled over the SNP volte-face re Trident, but they then left (or were forced out of) the party completely.

It really is no exaggeration to describe the party's modus vivendi as Stalinist - but they still win the support of many who whined about NuLab "control freakery" :roll:
The most prominent dissenter to be cold-shouldered by the SNP hierarchy was Margo MacDonald - later expelled when she successfully stood as an independent.
Margo became a leading member of the 79 Group, a faction within the party that sought to take it leftwards. This led to her resigning from the SNP in 1982 in protest at the banning of the group.

Having rejoined the party in the 1990s, Margo headed the SNP's regional list of candidates in the first Holyrood elections in 1999. But there were still a lot of old scores around and when Margo supported Alex Neil for the leadership in 2000, rather than Alex Salmond's preferred choice of John Swinney, she found herself increasingly marginalised.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -macdonald
yahyah
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Answered my own question.

Slippery Sturgeon “The Sun is a paper which a different editorial policy in Scotland. I welcome their support.''

With any luck the unsurprising news that Murdoch wants an SNP win may focus minds on May 7th.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:The Green figure certainly looks rogue. Not bothered at all by the Scotland being out of line: Scotland is a tiny share.
Overall it is the trend that matters, and the trend is squeaky bum.

Does anyone live in a Lab target marginal?
Sadly no. Maidstone & The Weald (and "The Weald" is the problem) would vote for a turd in a blue rosette which, interestingly, is pretty much what we've got.
A poll there released yesterday had the Tories only 5 points ahead of the LibDems. OK it was commissioned by Clegg's gang, but still.......
Mathematically he could get in, but that would rely on Kippers and Labour voters switching en masse and as Jasper is, to be frank, not much of an improvement on Helen I don't feel inclined to waste my vote.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:... I usually ignore him, but it was a direct (and predictably snarky) reply to my question so I gave him the courtesy of an answer. As he isn't even half as clever as he thinks he is I'm more than happy to let him keep digging while I laugh at him.
During my aforementioned exchange with him I asked what was his position and stated mine, just an interested layman (academisation and transfer of school assets), since he adopted such a know-it-all tone to his arguments. Needless to say he didn't answer the question.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by yahyah »

Looks as if the Murdoch endorsement is a touchy subject for the more vociferous Nats.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by rearofthestore »

About that 'sensational' Ipsos Mori poll , Smithson thinking what I was
Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 4m4 minutes ago
It is now 5 hours since @IpsosMORI published its sensational poll & still no sign of the dataset.
From the limited information made available it looked dubious anyway what will the detail show I wonder.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by mikems »

Why don't the tories, and their supporters, call for the banning of the SNP, if it is not allowed to act in the UK parliament after being elected to it?

That's what they mean, isn't it? They have no right to vote in Parliament, because they want independence. So they should be banned from standing in UK elections.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Tish wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 22m22 minutes ago
The June welfare "summer reading paper" from Iain Duncan Smith to the Quad clearly says it comes after a request from the Prime Minister.

steve hawkes ‏@steve_hawkes 14m14 minutes ago
.. @patrickwintour Simon Hughes "This isn't new news" - have a word Patrick!

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 9m9 minutes ago
.@steve_hawkes Hi Steve are you pro welfare cuts south of the border and totally opposed north of the border ?
Wintour shooting down a couple of canards there - good on him.
Doesn't that mean that George Osborne has just been caught out in a bare faced lie?
Whatever next. Our straight as a dye, clean living Georgie Porgie lying?
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

utopiandreams wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:... I usually ignore him, but it was a direct (and predictably snarky) reply to my question so I gave him the courtesy of an answer. As he isn't even half as clever as he thinks he is I'm more than happy to let him keep digging while I laugh at him.
During my aforementioned exchange with him I asked what was his position and stated mine, just an interested layman (academisation and transfer of school assets), since he adopted such a know-it-all tone to his arguments. Needless to say he didn't answer the question.
He usually ends up sneaking off. I thought it was funny when Rusty used OpenSeas (more than once), obviously forgetting which desk he was logged on at.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by PorFavor »

Farage also hit out at the make-up of the audience for tonight’s Question Time debate (Guardian Election Blog)
Nigel Farage said, "I'm told that the woman in the third row will be wearing far too much mascara."
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by citizenJA »

yahyah wrote:Has anyone seen any comments from Sturgeon or other senior SNP-ers on the Murdoch love-in ?
Am not being lazy, just haven't been online this morning and will be going out soon.

Will they risk the wrath of Rupert by telling it like it is about him ?
Or be held to account on what sort of contact they have had with him ?
On the AS blog, SNP friends have attempted to explain it all away by pointing out that once, Ed Miliband held a copy of the Sun.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by citizenJA »

yahyah wrote:Looks as if the Murdoch endorsement is a touchy subject for the more vociferous Nats.
Absolutely insane reactions. Ludicrous justifications, outrageous lies about the Labour party & those commenting supporting the Labour party. I'm embarrassed for their posts. It's a couple of commentators who've regularly posted supporting the SNP.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by citizenJA »

...the gap between rich and poor continues to widen. Men in Blackpool can currently expect to live to just 75.2 years, the lowest life expectancy in the country, while those in the City of London – where life expectancy is highest – live an average of 83.4 years. The longest life expectancy for women is also in the City, at 87.3 years. Kensington and Chelsea, the richest borough in London, is close behind.

Based on the latest data available for England and Wales, from 2012, the study shows that the eight-year gap in men’s lifespan between more and less affluent districts yawns as large as the gap between England and Wales as a whole and Sri Lanka or Vietnam, say the researchers from Imperial College London. The seven-year gap for women is as large as that between the UK and Malaysia or Nicaragua.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... l-research" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hey, way to go, you bastard Tories. You want five more years of what? No, thank you.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by PorFavor »

"Look at me! Look at me! Look at me!"

That is what Nick Clegg will be saying (not out loud, I trust, but you never know) on tonight's debates, according to Joe Twyneham (sp?) from YouGov (and it's a direct quote from JT's BBC interview).
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by PorFavor »

The EconomistVerified account
‏@TheEconomist

Our endorsement: Britons should give the Conservative-led coalition another term in office http://econ.st/1AkCWMn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They don't appear to understand our electoral system, apart from anything else.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by Willow904 »

citizenJA wrote:
yahyah wrote:Looks as if the Murdoch endorsement is a touchy subject for the more vociferous Nats.
Absolutely insane reactions. Ludicrous justifications, outrageous lies about the Labour party & those commenting supporting the Labour party. I'm embarrassed for their posts. It's a couple of commentators who've regularly posted supporting the SNP.
You seem to have ruffled a few feathers over at the Guardian, JA. I found that story about the Labour councillor who accidentally retweeted a polling leaflet that endorsed tactical voting, btw:

http://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/ ... ry-tweet-/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He resigned because of the error and the ensuing abuse he received on social media. And that appears to be it. I think there would have to be more than one Labour member/campaigner involved to justify the take some SNP supporters appear to have on it. I asked for links, so we'll see. CIF comments certainly make you feel like you're missing something going on in Scotland but then I see interviews with Scottish voters on the TV and they seem the exact same confused, apathetic or tribalist types you get anywhere so I'm not sure anything really strange is going on after all. Those who voted yes in the referendum and a few others are going to vote SNP. They want independence mostly, which to me has absolutely nothing to with Labour really and as a unionist party there is nothing Labour can offer them to change their minds, unfortunately.

Labour have to win rUK. That's all there is to it.

:zen:
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: We've had no communication at all from the Greens, only a week to go.
Maybe they are saving the planet, not wasting paper.
They need to find a way of converting some of the surge in membership into activists on the ground who are prepared to go out and door knock, attend relevant meetings and get some kind of local momentum going. They won't have the funds locally to do mass postal deliveries so they'll need to find and use alternative ways to reach people. There was an interesting bit on one of the news programmes the other night about how the Lib Dems built up their elected representation - and it was through focussing hard in certain areas - starting with the councils and local issues etc - and not spreading their resources thinly. That's stood them in good stead - especially when times and fortunes are so rough for them now - they will still get more seats than might be expected because of that vote concentration. The commentator was saying Ukip need to do more of that. The Greens could also target their resources more and make more headway.

Labour has absolutely led with digital media, and between Facebook and email there are several interesting things a day in my mailbox or on my timeline. They are probably paying a lot for it to be this well coordinated. I also get stuff from the LibDems and Tories, basically not requested but spammed in my email. I've never had single anything from greens, in spite of shoeing an interest. The quickest cheapest most effective way to get to people is email, and s few talented 22 year olds could set.it up and just a single good blogger for instance could push out campaign news. So I guess they aren't coordinated. They've had, I believe some hefty donors, but their average weekly donations are thee lowest of all parties. Still, digital is very clean, and they could have got a designer to do some stuff people could print for themselves. Time if this has happened, rap me on the knuckles, I, just bemused that we've had nothing. In one of the most green areas here.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by PorFavor »

I'm going to utter a profanity.

David Blunkett.
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Re: Thursday 30th April 2015

Post by frightful_oik »

PorFavor wrote:I'm going to utter a profanity.

David Blunkett.
What's he done now? I'm still waiting for Danczuk, Lammy or Abbot to say something stupid in the next few days.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
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