Friday 1st May

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 01 May, 2015 6:01 am

Morning all.

Plenty of outrage being vented by SNP supporters because Miliband ruled out confidence and supply or any other arrangements.

I thought it was a shrewd move. Sturgeon had already said the same thing (conveniently overlooked) and when it comes to backing a Labour Queens speech, are the SNP going to abstain or vote against? That's political suicide with regards to the 2016 Scottish elections.

Sturgeon has been very smart with her lock the Tories out rhetoric to grab traditional Labour voters, but it's also straitjacketed the SNP if Labour play hardball.

This pronouncement from Miliband is the dominant story the day after, English marginal voters take note!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 01 May, 2015 6:26 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Plenty of outrage being vented by SNP supporters because Miliband ruled out confidence and supply or any other arrangements.

I thought it was a shrewd move. Sturgeon had already said the same thing (conveniently overlooked) and when it comes to backing a Labour Queens speech, are the SNP going to abstain or vote against? That's political suicide with regards to the 2016 Scottish elections.

Sturgeon has been very smart with her lock the Tories out rhetoric to grab traditional Labour voters, but it's also straitjacketed the SNP if Labour play hardball.

This pronouncement from Miliband is the dominant story the day after, English marginal voters take note!

Kettle on this.

Minority government will allow Ed Miliband to call Nicola Sturgeon’s bluff

http://gu.com/p/482kk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 01 May, 2015 6:31 am

Good morning.

No more flying by the seat of his pants or being pumped up for a fight, last night was set aside for the far more serious business of debate, besides a man has to eat and sleep once in a while. But this was no debate that Cameron attended just another well rehearsed and scripted avoidance of the issues. 'And whilst the metaphorical shredders had been busy purging the internet of past promises made, photocopiers in CCHQ had been working overtime ensuring Liam Byrne's ill-judged joke would always see the light of day. But who was this aghast man vehemently waving it about? None other than Fat Dave not unknown for his own ill-judged utterances. Still there is no accounting for taste.

Fearing the public still doubted his figures, David refused to address specifics rounding numbers up or down to the nearest 5 or 10 billion or so; under no circumstances were they subject to scrutiny. He'd been instructed to keep to the script and stick to it he did, even bringing up his own late son yet again should anybody doubt his integrity. Who could possibly question that?

Well sorry Dave, I for one do and this is not another of my yarns. Besides every time you elucidate what may sound reasonable, you always begin with a misleading or false premise. No wonder your conclusions are awry. It's time to book your furniture removals, Dave.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 01 May, 2015 6:34 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Plenty of outrage being vented by SNP supporters because Miliband ruled out confidence and supply or any other arrangements.

I thought it was a shrewd move. Sturgeon had already said the same thing (conveniently overlooked) and when it comes to backing a Labour Queens speech, are the SNP going to abstain or vote against? That's political suicide with regards to the 2016 Scottish elections.

Sturgeon has been very smart with her lock the Tories out rhetoric to grab traditional Labour voters, but it's also straitjacketed the SNP if Labour play hardball.

This pronouncement from Miliband is the dominant story the day after, English marginal voters take note!

Good morning.

My favourite line last night was

Ed royally f*cked up in Scotland tonight....

and variations thereof. Given that according to the 45ers Labour were finished anyway, completely wiped out, what difference does it make, will they be wiped out twice?

Miliband called Sturgeon's bluff. She either has to up the ante by saying she will not support Labour in anyway, thereby making it her who lets the Tories into government again, or she has to fold. Well played Ed.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Fri 01 May, 2015 6:42 am

You won't be surprised to learn that one of the hostile audience members asking questions that could have been written by the Tories them was... a member of the Pudsey Conservative Party. They tweeted how proud they were of her and then deleted the tweet when they realised that it gave the game away but Twitter people caught them out.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 01 May, 2015 6:47 am

Spacedone wrote:You won't be surprised to learn that one of the hostile audience members asking questions that could have been written by the Tories them was... a member of the Pudsey Conservative Party. They tweeted how proud they were of her and then deleted the tweet when they realised that it gave the game away but Twitter people caught them out.

She was supposed to be one of the "undecideds" I believe.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 May, 2015 7:15 am

Someone tell St Sturgeon the only way to help lock the Tories out is to vote Labour where they can win.

This is starting to get bad for the blood pressure.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Fri 01 May, 2015 7:15 am

Morfternooneve all...

Happy May Day/International Workers Day

http://www.londonmayday.org/

: md15.GIF (24.47 KiB) Viewed 10595 times

Not one of my days in London, so will have to support from afar - I'm hopeful there'll be a good turnout though - and I very much look forward to reading all the reports that'll be filed by the BBC/Murkydochia....oh....wait....

Re SNP/Murkydochia...at least the cat is out of the bag now - difficult to see how the SNP can claim to be 'left-wing', so the truth might sink in (for the real socialists) over the next few days. I heard an interesting piece yesterday (possibly R4, maybe R2) about voting intentions in Scotland - very odd - Tories voting Labour to keep out the SNP, Labour voting Lost Deposit to keep out the SNP (voxpops, so actual voters - only 2 or 3, but interesting if replicated widely).

Re Brand/Greens - has he actually come out for the Greens? I read it to mean him saying in Brighton vote Green...and in defence of Ms Lucas, whilst I know very little about the local situation, she has an enormous number of brownie points (IMHO and HIH*) for getting herself arrested and charged (and later cleared) at a fracking protest. If Brand has come out for the Greens, he proves his inability to understand that this will, in effect, be a vote for Cameron - every vote that is not cast for Labour will be used by OGRFG & PFPT to strengthen the attacks on Mr Ed/Labour post election and destabilise the incoming government (assuming you're not like me, so are not expecting a victory of Attlee proportions) - the only thing OGRFG & PFPT is interested in is retaining the keys for No 10 - that way, Uncle Rupert will help him to keep the protection in place for the various 'friends' with questions to answer (HSBC/money-laundering...City of London/Tax avoidance & money laundering...Patrick Rock and all his other associates of that nature....Coulson/Newcorpse/Mazer Mahmood/Andy Hayman/John Yeats/Daniel Morgan/Hillsborough/Orgreave etc...UN reports on Housing and the abuse of disabled people...the final death count of IDS/Fraud/UNUM/Maximarse...and on and on and on)

I'm aware that my opinion may upset the Greens here, and I say again, in my heart I'm a Green really - but I see the danger of a split left vote pressaging another 5 years of OGRFG & PFPT being ably assisted by the forces of capital and the media to wreak further destruction and havoc, whilst willfully ignoring anything that doesn't fit the pampered elitist sense of entitlement - only Miliband can open the door to positive change and it is a two-man race.

(and thanks, pk1, for the explanation re the BBC QT - it meant I didn't have to subject myself to watching it in the hope of witnessing a melting smoked chicken)

*HIH....here in hope

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 7:25 am

The nationalism being whipped up is very depressing. Feels like we're about as close to the oppressed Britons banding together against a minority elite as we were when Cartimandua gave up Caratacus to the Romans.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Fri 01 May, 2015 7:31 am

yahyah wrote:Someone tell St Sturgeon the only way to help lock the Tories out is to vote Labour where they can win.

This is starting to get bad for the blood pressure.

Umm...but St Sturgeon is perfect, isn't she? (Uncle Rupert said so) Does exactly what she's told and scrubs up well for the cameras....a large reward waiting for her at Newcorpse when OGRFG & PFPT is nicely ensconced back in No 10, and Uncle Rupert can finally destroy those pesky intellectual Marxists, leftist profit-ruiners and believers in compassion and humanity.

(Not recognised here in hope, though - Labour will win a majority and the SNP might have to calm down a bit!)

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Fri 01 May, 2015 7:35 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:The nationalism being whipped up is very depressing. Feels like we're about as close to the oppressed Britons banding together against a minority elite as we were when Cartimandua gave up Caratacus to the Romans.

Not sure I remember that, even though I am quite old....

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Fri 01 May, 2015 7:35 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Plenty of outrage being vented by SNP supporters because Miliband ruled out confidence and supply or any other arrangements.

I thought it was a shrewd move. Sturgeon had already said the same thing (conveniently overlooked) and when it comes to backing a Labour Queens speech, are the SNP going to abstain or vote against? That's political suicide with regards to the 2016 Scottish elections.

Sturgeon has been very smart with her lock the Tories out rhetoric to grab traditional Labour voters, but it's also straitjacketed the SNP if Labour play hardball.

This pronouncement from Miliband is the dominant story the day after, English marginal voters take note!

Ha! Got banned from a major disability group overnight for exactly this! Offensive to hold a different opinion these days! Whither democracy?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 May, 2015 7:40 am

Just read last night's posts and RR asking about vote swapping.

Labour need the most % votes as well as seats, as 'legitimacy' seems to be the catchword of the week. Unless you could vote swap or vote tactically and be virtually guaranteed to keep a Tory out, a vote for Labour is surely the best thing.

&...sorry Tizme I honestly don't mean you, but not sure I could trust some Greens or other party supporters to actually vote Labour when they got into the booth.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 01 May, 2015 7:47 am

Ed was definitely right to categorically rule out a deal with the SNP - after all TGS is bang on the money when he says so what, are Labour going to wiped out twice ?

Re the Pudsey CC member - screengrab anybody because I haven't seen it yet.

I know I might be a bit like a stuck record on this but how can Sturgeon charter that helicopter when they have had no donations this year ? The last cash donation was £3500 on 10/10/14

http://search.electoralcommission.org.u ... s/C0137637" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't understand why our media chaps aren't picking up on this.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 May, 2015 7:50 am

''Labour will win a majority and the SNP might have to calm down a bit!''

It can still happen. We all live in Hope.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 7:55 am

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/c ... .124827525" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Beware the democratic deficit from the country turning a sea of SNP yellow

I can't read it, but if you can

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:07 am

The SNP have Holyrood elections next year so surely will have to play things carefully regarding their demands ?

A backlash against them, presuming people in Scotland see things as they really are, could put them back in Scotland for years. If they lose support at Holyrood their dream of total domination & indy would be stuffed.

But their spin machine is powerful, and their supporters cult-like and aggressive, normal rules obviously don't apply.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:09 am

If Sturgeon mentions "Scotland's voice" once more, I swear I'm going to tut.
LOUDLY.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:11 am

I feel like I'm playing hopscotch Robert...one minute on one leg in hope, then on the other in fear.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:14 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:If Sturgeon mentions "Scotland's voice" once more, I swear I'm going to tut.
LOUDLY.

Have got to the point when, if her whiny tones come on the radio I switch it off.
Same with Leanne Wood, who I foolishly supported when she was first elected leader.
Oh, for the days of her predecessor, he was a proper politician not an SNP wannabe.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:25 am

Spacedone wrote:You won't be surprised to learn that one of the hostile audience members asking questions that could have been written by the Tories them was... a member of the Pudsey Conservative Party. They tweeted how proud they were of her and then deleted the tweet when they realised that it gave the game away but Twitter people caught them out.

Is this the blonde woman who runs a small business? Catherine Shuttleworth is her name. She was very hostile.

She is also a fan of Jeremy Hunt, gave a thumbs-up to Osborne in the spin room (according to the Telegraph), and set up her business with the support of the Tory MP for Harrogate.

She applied to QT as an "undecided voter" and forgot to mention that her company "Savvy" was signatory 3882 on the Tories' list of small businesses which signed a letter supporting them.

She may not be the same person you're talking about, Spacedone, but she is far from being an undecided voter. The BBC clearly didn't do any research on this audience.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:25 am

Talking of Wood:

''General Election 2015: Leanne Wood opens door to deal with Labour without the SNP but renews commitment to independence''
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... od-9159920" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Independence in Wales ?
Even only two thirds of Plaid supporters actually want it.

Last poll here showed only 3% wanted an independent Wales !
That's probably Wood and her extended family.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:36 am

As I said yesterday, Cameron won - in that he got a much easier ride and was very smooth.

Mainly because he simply didn't answer the questions and continued to regurgitate his tedious mantras - he lied about Labour's spending (while neglecting to mention his own); lied about his stewardship of the NHS (bringing that poor boy Ivan into it yet again); lied about what he calls "welfare" (quoting £100,000 claims, pretending he's got 2 million people into work, ignoring the questions on food banks, and refusing to say where the axe will fall); and lied about Labour doing a deal with the SNP. Bringing that note out yet again was sheer farce, but unfortunately some people are daft enough to go along with this piece of theatre being ignorant of the history and gullible enough to agree with Cameron that it was a disgraceful thing to do. Lynton will be happy.

Miliband at least attempted to engage truthfully with the people who asked him hostile questions - unlike Cameron he didn't just ignore them and wheel out prepared soundbites. He should get kudos for that, but somehow I doubt if anyone will notice in the media.

I am disappointed that the BBC didn't do it's research on the audience and that Dimbleby didn't put Cameron on the spot with some of his responses - in which he used the question asked to talk about something else and didn't once give a straight answer. Shameful.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:41 am

Morning all. Just got up and trying not to listen to Farage's nonsense on Radio 4 - but not succeeding very well. Surprise, surprise his attack lines this morning are mostly selected for the Labour supporters he says are now increasingly coming over to him and he wants more of ...

So we've got -
Farage / Ukip attacking Labour, wanting to squeeze the Labour vote - and nationalist.

Sturgeon / SNP attacking Labour for austerity & voting for 30 billion of cuts (according to them), wanting to squeeze the Labour vote - vote SNP in Scotland - Green or Plaid in England and Wales - but wants a Labour government (ha!) - but won't go into a coalition / do deal with Labour - but will be able to influence Labour - and nationalist

Leanne Wood / Plaid attacking Labour for austerity & voting for 30 billion of cuts (according to them), wanting to squeeze the Labour vote - vote Plaid in Wales - Green or SNP in England and Scotland - but wants a Labour government (ha!) - but would do a deal with the Tories if she had to - and nationalist

Greens - repeat as above for SNP and Plaid - but take out the nationalist for England and Wales? (In Scotland they want Indy but not sure of position in England and Wales - I've seen Green websites promoting independence for Wales though.) - and take out the deal with the Tories.

Lib Dems - I don't actually care what they say they want because who bloody knows what they'll actually do and renege on if they ever get near any power again - but they claim Labour will be chaos along with the SNP and will spend like billyo (in direct contrast to what the SNP, Green & Plaid claim) - seem to want a Tory coalition again.

Tories - claim Labour will spend all the money again - piss it up the side of the banks I presume - and have and will oppose any and all spending cuts - in direct contradiction to the SNP, Green and Plaid claims.

Have I got it just about right? Upshot - they all attack Labour even when some of the say they want a Labour government. It's a contradictory mess with nationalist gravy all over it.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:47 am

It's vile. And it's because a small number want to keep everything, and the rest of us keep letting them do it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:48 am

ephemerid wrote:
Spacedone wrote:You won't be surprised to learn that one of the hostile audience members asking questions that could have been written by the Tories them was... a member of the Pudsey Conservative Party. They tweeted how proud they were of her and then deleted the tweet when they realised that it gave the game away but Twitter people caught them out.

Is this the blonde woman who runs a small business? Catherine Shuttleworth is her name. She was very hostile.

She is also a fan of Jeremy Hunt, gave a thumbs-up to Osborne in the spin room (according to the Telegraph), and set up her business with the support of the Tory MP for Harrogate.

She applied to QT as an "undecided voter" and forgot to mention that her company "Savvy" was signatory 3882 on the Tories' list of small businesses which signed a letter supporting them.

She may not be the same person you're talking about, Spacedone, but she is far from being an undecided voter. The BBC clearly didn't do any research on this audience.

That wasn't the name I saw on twitter last night.

Editing to say - Labourlist have the info in this story ...
About that Question Time audience…
http://labourlist.org/2015/05/about-tha ... -audience/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 01 May, 2015 8:52 am

I am not as happy as some here about the ruling out of any 'deal'. Probably because I fully expect EM to be PM (now only available at 4/6, get on Lab minority at 7/4.)

We already knew there was going to be no coalition, both have ruled it out.

We already know the SNP will support Labour in any budget or vote of confidence: that is what locking the Tories out requires.

But, in order to pass any legislation Labour will be reliant on SNP support. Everytime this happens the Tories will shout "deal". Indeed there will be lots of informal deals: procedurally in the Commons it is vital to command a majority.

This is now going to be doubly damaging. Not only will the English not fancy the idea of the SNP having control by way of veto over what is passed, but the showreel of Miliband saying 'no deals' will be played over and over again.

I know people dislike this about politics, but one of the key political skills is to be able not to answer any question asked.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 01 May, 2015 9:13 am

Newsflash: David Cameron has been taken ill on arrival for his PM Direct event in Yorkshire. Word is that he was treated to the sound of 'Staying Alive' but gathered crowds insisted they change the music.

Sorry folks, nothing original this morning just a rehash of one from a few weeks back.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 9:15 am

Wood and Sturgeon both think it's "irresponsible" of Miliband to rule out deals with people whose only interest is to break up our country (by which I mean the sovereign state of the UK).

Some Labour voter in Scotland last night said she wanted to join the SNP but not if they wouldn't rule out a referendum. Do people in Scotland not understand what the N in SNP means or what?

Edited to add - I know it's not all people in Scotland.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 01 May, 2015 9:44 am

SpinningHugo wrote:But, in order to pass any legislation Labour will be reliant on SNP support. Everytime this happens the Tories will shout "deal". Indeed there will be lots of informal deals: procedurally in the Commons it is vital to command a majority.

Well, initially they won't be, they'll be too busy ripping great lumps out of each other in what will be a very messy struggle for leadership of their Party.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 01 May, 2015 9:53 am

listening to 5Live. Campbell making me shout stfu at my radio. sheesh.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 01 May, 2015 9:54 am

Happy Mayday comrades.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 9:56 am

have just made another donation to the get the vote out campaign.
thanks to all here who are contributing on the phone and on the street.
much appreciated.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Fri 01 May, 2015 9:58 am

mikems wrote:Happy Mayday comrades.

Good morning all.
Thought this may be appropriate today

[youtube]PTKgW4xej5s[/youtube]

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:00 am

SpinningHugo wrote:I am not as happy as some here about the ruling out of any 'deal'. Probably because I fully expect EM to be PM (now only available at 4/6, get on Lab minority at 7/4.)

We already knew there was going to be no coalition, both have ruled it out.

We already know the SNP will support Labour in any budget or vote of confidence: that is what locking the Tories out requires.

But, in order to pass any legislation Labour will be reliant on SNP support. Everytime this happens the Tories will shout "deal". Indeed there will be lots of informal deals: procedurally in the Commons it is vital to command a majority.

This is now going to be doubly damaging. Not only will the English not fancy the idea of the SNP having control by way of veto over what is passed, but the showreel of Miliband saying 'no deals' will be played over and over again.

I know people dislike this about politics, but one of the key political skills is to be able not to answer any question asked.

I suspect Ed's tough stance on deals with the SNP is aimed more at the SNP leadership than anything else. If they think they can bargain, they will try to bargain and Ed's right, such horsetrading wouldn't be in the interests of the union. I think he believes (rightly in my opinion) that if he allows his principles rather than political expediency to guide his decisions, he has the best chance regaining trust in politics and politicians. It's the one thing he can offer which clearly none of the others can, including the Greens who have completely lost any credibility they ever had of being any different by grabbing the Tory lie about Labour voting for £30bn cuts and running with it.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:01 am

There will be recriminations and blood-letting in the tory party after next Thursday, unless they improve on last time.

They probably won't have much time to waste on what Labour are doing.

Also, if they are split, they too risk becoming part of the game, forced into supporting government policy they might not necessarily want to support through having their bluff called. Are they fundamentally in a stronger position than the SNP, if push comes to shove in parliamentary terms?

If we have a minority government, in the medium term the best politician should come out on top and dominate things. The tories might be in the middle of a leadership election in just a couple of weeks time.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:11 am

http://www.scotlandnow.dailyrecord.co.u ... nd-5614287" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Ed going to Glasgow later today

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:16 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:have just made another donation to the get the vote out campaign.
thanks to all here who are contributing on the phone and on the street.
much appreciated.

I'm all doned out - but good on you!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:16 am

Good morfternoon.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:32 am

Need some distraction? A taste of early summer?

Third test match starts this p.m. in Barbados - goes on for five days. That takes us up to Tuesday. Then it is just one whole day of nerve jangling worry until polling day.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:41 am

have got girded loins, jangling nerves and red mist.
knackering.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:42 am

AS blog, reporting on Cameron's speech:

Q: What exactly going to do on child benefit?

Labour's repeated attack on the tory plans is cutting through.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:45 am

RobertSnozers wrote: They won't make the mistake Labour made and wait til conference season, they'll do it right away and Johnson will win, and be utterly focussed on getting back into power. If Osborne sticks around as shadow chancellor, and I don't see why he wouldn't prefer to manipulate Johnson from no11 than throw his toys out of the pram over not winning the leadership, the Tories will be even more dangerous than they are now.

That is a truly scary prospect !

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:55 am

mikems wrote:Need some distraction? A taste of early summer?

Third test match starts this p.m. in Barbados - goes on for five days. That takes us up to Tuesday. Then it is just one whole day of nerve jangling worry until polling day.

Don't need any distractions thanks. We've got morris dancers outside so I am currently digging a pit & ordering an industrial quantity of scorpions.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:56 am

Q: What exactly going to do on child benefit?

A: Lie about it.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:57 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
mikems wrote:There will be recriminations and blood-letting in the tory party after next Thursday, unless they improve on last time.

They probably won't have much time to waste on what Labour are doing.

Also, if they are split, they too risk becoming part of the game, forced into supporting government policy they might not necessarily want to support through having their bluff called. Are they fundamentally in a stronger position than the SNP, if push comes to shove in parliamentary terms?

If we have a minority government, in the medium term the best politician should come out on top and dominate things. The tories might be in the middle of a leadership election in just a couple of weeks time.
They won't make the mistake Labour made and wait til conference season, they'll do it right away and Johnson will win, and be utterly focussed on getting back into power. If Osborne sticks around as shadow chancellor, and I don't see why he wouldn't prefer to manipulate Johnson from no11 than throw his toys out of the pram over not winning the leadership, the Tories will be even more dangerous than they are now.

Cameron didn't become leader until late 2005, remember - I think the timetable might be speeded up a bit this time but not *that* much.

Johnson has many internal enemies, and hasn't exactly set this campaign on fire so far.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:58 am

Back in Cardiff, Ed Miliband has just announced that Labour would effectively cancel the bedroom tax on its first day in office. It would do that by making funds available to councils to allow them to compensate people for the cost of the bedroom tax in full.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 01 May, 2015 10:59 am

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hello all.

If anyone's been feeling down, you really need to check out the clip attached to this tweet, it'll cheer you right up. Cameron's cracking under the pressure!

Edited to add, you can now also see the clip on a perpetual loop on Sparrow's blog.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 01 May, 2015 11:05 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
mikems wrote:There will be recriminations and blood-letting in the tory party after next Thursday, unless they improve on last time.

They probably won't have much time to waste on what Labour are doing.

Also, if they are split, they too risk becoming part of the game, forced into supporting government policy they might not necessarily want to support through having their bluff called. Are they fundamentally in a stronger position than the SNP, if push comes to shove in parliamentary terms?

If we have a minority government, in the medium term the best politician should come out on top and dominate things. The tories might be in the middle of a leadership election in just a couple of weeks time.
They won't make the mistake Labour made and wait til conference season, they'll do it right away and Johnson will win, and be utterly focussed on getting back into power. If Osborne sticks around as shadow chancellor, and I don't see why he wouldn't prefer to manipulate Johnson from no11 than throw his toys out of the pram over not winning the leadership, the Tories will be even more dangerous than they are now.

If Johnson gets the leadership he'll swiftly delegate just about everything that involves thinking or decision-making or work to others (either a team he brings in or an Osborne-led team) and concentrate on misquoting classical history and literature to pour scorn on Miliband and Labour's allies whilst jetting around the world in search of media appearances in an attempt to turn his 'buffoon' character into 'approachable, humorous, and erudite, International Statesman.' And, at the same time, trying to make sure he doesn't have to pay any taxes to the USA without alienating the US people...

Happy May Day and a Joyous Beltane to all Havenites and our guests

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 01 May, 2015 11:08 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:have got girded loins, jangling nerves and red mist.
knackering.

Much easier to have girdled lions, as I did for last night's debates