Friday 8th May 2015

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:03 am

Agree about Burnham, reluctantly - I like him, but if he took over "MID-STAFFS!!" would just become the Tories new "NO MONEY LEFT!!" for the next five years

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:04 am

frightful_oik wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
pk1 wrote:So, if EdM resigns, who do you want to take over ?

Personally I'm not sure there is anybody in the Shadow Cab that I'd vote for.

I would vote for Dan Jarvis though.

We needed 30+ seats that went Tory. We didn't get them because of the leader and the political strategy adopted.

Charlie Whelan, and others, lost this in 2010 with their selfish naivety.

Umunna is the best bet, or possibly even Creasy (but I don't think her personal circumstances allow.

If it is Burnham, Labour has given up trying to win.
Ridiculous! We have to analyse why the right won. It's complex but one factor is that the electorate aren't interested in politics. Another is that the media are owned by the right. Ummuna won't solve either of those problems. He just regurgitates soundbites.

I'm with you frightful_oik, it's complex, but Umunna is not the answer. The answer isn't to become more Tory than the Tories. We need an alternative, otherwise it's not democracy.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:05 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:I hope this isn't a post-mortem (if it is apologies). I think that the problem is not Labour - and certainly not Ed - but the fact that the political landscape has changed so much. We need to adapt to that. Grassroots engagement, the single issue approach. And not dividing ourselves. We need all of us non-Tories to form a strong anti-bastard coalition to fight this strategically, rather than continue to compete with each other.

One of the notable results last night was Gloria de Piero in Ashfield, who was defending a majority of 192 and won a majority of 8820 this time around; Oliver Coppard reduced Clegg's majority from 15284 to 2353. They both did the same thing, put the hours in, put the footwork in .... that has to be the focus, not 4 million conversations, but 40, 50, 60 million over the next few years.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:05 am

Con gain Derby North by forty-one votes so Chris Williamson's gone

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:06 am

So Anatoly and Hugo - what's a realistic outlook for maximising any potential advantage of the current situation (slimness of Tory majority, etc), while minimising any long-term irreverisble (eg: Brexit) damage of the Tory/SNP partnership made in hell.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:06 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
yahyah wrote:Please can we hold back on ditching Ed talk until later in the day.

It just feels too raw just now.
Agree, I don't want a different leader.

I do. I think even Miliband will now accept that that is what we need.

He will/may be forced to - but that doesn't mean its right. And its not what we need. Not at all

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:07 am

The failure here is of Labour to beat the Conservatives … Labour has barely increased the share of the vote.

Sturgeon. It's all Labour's fault.
I know you here predicted it, but Jesus wept.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:07 am

Oh, had missed that gem from Hugo earlier. Umunna and Cooper especially are part of the problem, not the solution.

(the fact they are so bigged up by the MSM should warn you off by itself - lets remember now that these are the same people that assured us Jim Murphy would turn the tide for Labour in Scotland; maybe the "outsider" Findlay might have got us 0 MPs there rather than 1, but then again maybe not)

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:08 am

pk1 wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:Is it too much to ask that we leave the 'what Labour did wrong' and 'who follows Ed' for another day?
I second that!
Yes you're right & I should never have asked the question but it was done in the best interests of the party because the last thing we need is a prolonged leadership contest

Not wanting to upset anyone, but some people may want to talk about it. Everyone deals with things in their own way, and we should respect that. Only saying, please don't be

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:09 am

@LadyCentauria

Thank you muchly for the compliment, Lady, but let's not get carried away. My humour is much more likely to raise a frown than a smile, which may explain why it holds today.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:10 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:So Anatoly and Hugo - what's a realistic outlook for maximising any potential advantage of the current situation (slimness of Tory majority, etc), while minimising any long-term irreverisble (eg: Brexit) damage of the Tory/SNP partnership made in hell.

I am afraid I only have downsides.

First the Tories can get through boundary changes: making victory even harder.

Second they can, at a minimum, get through the Smith Commission reforms, excluding Scottish votes in rest of UK matters where devolved.

It really matters whether the majority is 2 or 8.

If it is 2, we can stop things like repeal of the Human Rights Act.

If not, not.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:11 am

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
I think we lost because of the SNP factor.

.
I think it is very important that this view doesn't take hold (LIvingstone peddling it now).

Add on every Scottish seat, and we still lose.

We needed a bigger tent. not an even smaller one than those who wanted a break from Blair voted for in 2010.
You are missing the point. It isn't the Scottish seats, it is worse.

The Tories were able to convince Southern England that Labour meant an SNP coalition and the Scots would steal all their money.

It was toxic, it was all the media talked about and in seats like Nuneaton it heavily influenced voters. How much airtime did Sturgeon get in this election for a party not represented in most seats.

Wish I could 'thank' you TE. Totally, totally correct (witness my post re: the Lib Dems and Labour coming back from the doorsteps reporting this was cutting through and heavily). They played their trump card at the very end, giving Labour no time to hit back. As if the man who stood up to Murdock was going to let Sturgeon call all the shots, as if! Many people in this country are as thick as pig shit. (Sorry for being abusive, but I'm just in despair).

*Edit - to change So to sorry, duh!

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:12 am

Banks, bookies, estate agents, seeing their share price rallying.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:14 am

Just to add to feelings of a bad joke: Whistl, the private postal company who don't have to provide a universal service, have just delivered an election-literature letter from my constituency Labour Party reminding me how important my vote is. I'll tell our agent and the Labour HQ and suggest they demand a refund...

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:16 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:So Anatoly and Hugo - what's a realistic outlook for maximising any potential advantage of the current situation (slimness of Tory majority, etc), while minimising any long-term irreverisble (eg: Brexit) damage of the Tory/SNP partnership made in hell.
I am afraid I only have downsides.

First the Tories can get through boundary changes: making victory even harder.

Second they can, at a minimum, get through the Smith Commission reforms, excluding Scottish votes in rest of UK matters where devolved.

It really matters whether the majority is 2 or 8.

If it is 2, we can stop things like repeal of the Human Rights Act.

If not, not.

I suspect the Human Rights act repeal will be quietly dropped. Very technocratic and likely to have problems passing. There are enough moderate Tory MPs still.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:16 am

Morning all

Despite the shock, sadness and despair I would still say we have got to carry on and grow this magnificent forum.....the discourse brightens my day and it reminds me of the good we have in the country - despite what certain of our fellow countrymen have done

We cannot afford to have a time of introspection - we need to ensure that the leader for the next 5 years is in place and supported within weeks, not months. I would hope to still see Ed but if that is not possible then go quickly and agree on 5 points to hold the Tories to account on!

There is space for positivity...the majority will be slim, the Tories will tear themselves apart over Europe...it is unavoidable I think and they have made a lot of promises

If the supposition is right that it was fear of the SNP (and it will be interesting to compare LE and GE votes to get some inkling of that) then perhaps the electorate are not so wedded to the Tory plans and could turn....

The fightback has to start on Monday, the months of waiting after 2010 helped sow the seeds for yesterday and the same mistake should not be made now. If Ed goes then I suggest Jarvis...not the experience but the Tories will be petrified of someone with his background

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:16 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
The failure here is of Labour to beat the Conservatives … Labour has barely increased the share of the vote.
Sturgeon. It's all Labour's fault.
I know you here predicted it, but Jesus wept.

What a piece of work that woman is.
Tells people not to vote Labour, uses Murdoch's slime to help her win, and then goes on the attack.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:18 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:Morning all

Despite the shock, sadness and despair I would still say we have got to carry on and grow this magnificent forum.....the discourse brightens my day and it reminds me of the good we have in the country - despite what certain of our fellow countrymen have done

We cannot afford to have a time of introspection - we need to ensure that the leader for the next 5 years is in place and supported within weeks, not months. I would hope to still see Ed but if that is not possible then go quickly and agree on 5 points to hold the Tories to account on!

There is space for positivity...the majority will be slim, the Tories will tear themselves apart over Europe...it is unavoidable I think and they have made a lot of promises

If the supposition is right that it was fear of the SNP (and it will be interesting to compare LE and GE votes to get some inkling of that) then perhaps the electorate are not so wedded to the Tory plans and could turn....

The fightback has to start on Monday, the months of waiting after 2010 helped sow the seeds for yesterday and the same mistake should not be made now. If Ed goes then I suggest Jarvis...not the experience but the Tories will be petrified of someone with his background

agree wholeheartedly.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:19 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:Morning all

Despite the shock, sadness and despair I would still say we have got to carry on and grow this magnificent forum.....the discourse brightens my day and it reminds me of the good we have in the country - despite what certain of our fellow countrymen have done

We cannot afford to have a time of introspection - we need to ensure that the leader for the next 5 years is in place and supported within weeks, not months. I would hope to still see Ed but if that is not possible then go quickly and agree on 5 points to hold the Tories to account on!

There is space for positivity...the majority will be slim, the Tories will tear themselves apart over Europe...it is unavoidable I think and they have made a lot of promises

If the supposition is right that it was fear of the SNP (and it will be interesting to compare LE and GE votes to get some inkling of that) then perhaps the electorate are not so wedded to the Tory plans and could turn....

The fightback has to start on Monday, the months of waiting after 2010 helped sow the seeds for yesterday and the same mistake should not be made now. If Ed goes then I suggest Jarvis...not the experience but the Tories will be petrified of someone with his background

If Labour get rid of Ed I will leave the party. Simple as that.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:19 am

As for the mooted boundary changes, surely nobody can claim with a straight face after these results that the present arrangements have a "pro-Labour bias"??

There are quite a few potential Tory rebels on this one I would have thought - last time round Clegg's "treachery" was used to whip them into line; they won't have that now.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:21 am

SpinningHugo wrote:You could have replayed Livingstone from 92 alongside his line from 2015. The same analysis. Wrong then, wrong now.

With respect, Hugo, no he's not. It was the seats lost in England (because of the lies about the SNP), not just the ones lost in Scotland. But then, you want a Labour party that is Tory-lite, anyway. See your backing for the arch Blairite and Neoliberal, Umunna. We can't carry on with the same shade of sh*t forever. We need an alternative. I'n sorry, but I respectfully disagree with you.

Hope none of you think I'm being disrespectful to Hugo, I just disagree with his analysis.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:21 am

Dear lord, I've just seen my constituency's result.

Tory majority of 536 (1.2%) increased to 4,205 (9.2%).

So, five more years of Nigel Mills playing Candy Crush while defending the bedroom tax. Nice. Well done everyone.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:23 am

AngryAsWell wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Morning all

Despite the shock, sadness and despair I would still say we have got to carry on and grow this magnificent forum.....the discourse brightens my day and it reminds me of the good we have in the country - despite what certain of our fellow countrymen have done

We cannot afford to have a time of introspection - we need to ensure that the leader for the next 5 years is in place and supported within weeks, not months. I would hope to still see Ed but if that is not possible then go quickly and agree on 5 points to hold the Tories to account on!

There is space for positivity...the majority will be slim, the Tories will tear themselves apart over Europe...it is unavoidable I think and they have made a lot of promises

If the supposition is right that it was fear of the SNP (and it will be interesting to compare LE and GE votes to get some inkling of that) then perhaps the electorate are not so wedded to the Tory plans and could turn....

The fightback has to start on Monday, the months of waiting after 2010 helped sow the seeds for yesterday and the same mistake should not be made now. If Ed goes then I suggest Jarvis...not the experience but the Tories will be petrified of someone with his background
If Labour get rid of Ed I will leave the party. Simple as that.

You won't have to - he is going within days if not hours. Entirely of his own volition.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:23 am

yahyah wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
frightful_oik wrote: Ridiculous! We have to analyse why the right won. It's complex but one factor is that the electorate aren't interested in politics. Another is that the media are owned by the right. Ummuna won't solve either of those problems. He just regurgitates soundbites.
And - tin foil or not - I truly believe this election has been fixed.

We need someone with the brainpower [not me obviously] to work out turnouts & check how many people may have not been registered.

Maybe Anatoly or someone can provide some more idea of why the polls why so wrong, but if voter registration was a problem then the polls would be as they were, yet the result as it was - if that makes sense.

Yes, makes sense to me Yahyah. Hopefully, we'll get figures of how many have been disenfrancised.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:25 am

AngryAsWell wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Morning all

Despite the shock, sadness and despair I would still say we have got to carry on and grow this magnificent forum.....the discourse brightens my day and it reminds me of the good we have in the country - despite what certain of our fellow countrymen have done

We cannot afford to have a time of introspection - we need to ensure that the leader for the next 5 years is in place and supported within weeks, not months. I would hope to still see Ed but if that is not possible then go quickly and agree on 5 points to hold the Tories to account on!

There is space for positivity...the majority will be slim, the Tories will tear themselves apart over Europe...it is unavoidable I think and they have made a lot of promises

If the supposition is right that it was fear of the SNP (and it will be interesting to compare LE and GE votes to get some inkling of that) then perhaps the electorate are not so wedded to the Tory plans and could turn....

The fightback has to start on Monday, the months of waiting after 2010 helped sow the seeds for yesterday and the same mistake should not be made now. If Ed goes then I suggest Jarvis...not the experience but the Tories will be petrified of someone with his background
If Labour get rid of Ed I will leave the party. Simple as that.

They won't. But I think he will see it as his duty to resign. Makes no odds who Labour choose to replace him in one sense. If they start to do well, the media will monster them.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:25 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:I hope this isn't a post-mortem (if it is apologies). I think that the problem is not Labour - and certainly not Ed - but the fact that the political landscape has changed so much. We need to adapt to that. Grassroots engagement, the single issue approach. And not dividing ourselves. We need all of us non-Tories to form a strong anti-bastard coalition to fight this strategically, rather than continue to compete with each other.

Consider yourself thanked for this, Tinyclanger2

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:26 am

I think the polls are wrong because the pollsters don't know what they are doing.

I think they adjust samples using snake oil. Internet polling and phone polling seem equally useless.

The entire industry is finished this morning.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:28 am

TechnicalEphemera wrote:I think the polls are wrong because the pollsters don't know what they are doing.

I think they adjust samples using snake oil. Internet polling and phone polling seem equally useless.

The entire industry is finished this morning.

Their convergence on a uniformly wrong result looks deeply suspicious.

Silver lining

Lord Ashcroft wasted millions on rubbish.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:28 am

yahyah wrote:Just to add...in my constituency the council handled the Coalition's changes in voting registration very well. Labour here got 9.7%, only 5.8% in 2010.

Could that be a factor ?

Has I've been avoiding the MSM, could someone please tell me what Dan Jarvis' % was, up or down? I only mention as Barnsley Council, as far as I know, automatically registered everyone. Everyone I know didn't have to do a thing but still received their polling cards. If Yahyah's theory holds any water at all then his % will have gone up?

Though, don't forget it is a safe Labour seat.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:29 am

Looks like Miliband is about to resign.
What a terrible waste.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:30 am

I don't think "disenfrachisement" has much to do with it, tbh.

Quite a bit of the polling error is that they all overestimated the turnout, sometimes considerably so. Forget the exit poll, when I saw in the first actual result that turnout was up just 1% on 2010 I feared the worst (despite the reasonable pro-Labour swing)

We know that the hardcore Tory support will always turn out. Labour and UKIP especially relied on previous non-voters showing up this time - it seems that quite a few didn't. And the lesson there is that quite a few "lefties" need to spend the next 5 years less dicking about on social media, and more organising and getting others organised.

daydreamer · Post by **daydreamer** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:34 am

adam wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:Big picture, the coalition government has taken a hammering, 50 odd seats down. The fact the Tories have managed to cling to power won't change that. People are going to get very angry at Cameron very quickly (I give it 6 months).
But the government won't give a fuck. As someone's said ATL at the graun, with a majority the convention is that they can force through any manifesto commitment against the house of lords. They will do what the fuck they like and people are sheep. I give up.

Yep, they can push it all through, even the stuff that's not in the manifesto (and rest assured plenty of stuff will be implemented that not mentioned in that document). Labour, I assume don't have the numbers to stop them, the libs certainly don't, even voting with Labour. If Labour are re-captured by the Blairites (and you can see that happening clearly, as they'll just be able to say, look the country really is right-wing after all, and plus look what happens when you go against Murdock), then they'll just vote it through anyway.

This is just the worst disaster imaginable.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:37 am

I've tried to find the tiniest of silver linings, but I really am struggling. If even the loss of David Laws and Simon Hughes doesn't raise so much as a tentative smile, well....

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:37 am

5 years ago I didn't see the BBC's swing to the right coming. Social media is all the left can fight back with now. And the right can pay to astroturf that. Councils will get the blame for cuts. It's going to be tricky for sure.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:37 am

David Green retweeted
Dr Katy Shaw ‏@DrKatyShaw · 3 hrs3 hours ago
Theresa May confirms Data Communications Bill will goahead now LibDems are gone - this is Snoopers Charter. Welcome to next 5 years #GE2015

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:38 am

daydreamer wrote:
yahyah wrote:Just to add...in my constituency the council handled the Coalition's changes in voting registration very well. Labour here got 9.7%, only 5.8% in 2010.

Could that be a factor ?
Has I've been avoiding the MSM, could someone please tell me what Dan Jarvis' % was, up or down? I only mention as Barnsley Council, as far as I know, automatically registered everyone. Everyone I know didn't have to do a thing but still received their polling cards. If Yahyah's theory holds any water at all then his % will have gone up? Though, don't forget it is a safe Labour seat.

He increased his majority, @daydreamer!

Ed Miliband arriving at HQ now

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:40 am

AngryAsWell wrote:David Green retweeted
Dr Katy Shaw ‏@DrKatyShaw · 3 hrs3 hours ago
Theresa May confirms Data Communications Bill will goahead now LibDems are gone - this is Snoopers Charter. Welcome to next 5 years #GE2015

Not sure she will get that through. How many libertarian Tories are there?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:40 am

NonOxCol wrote:Do what you like with the psephology, I just think Britain is full of selfish c***s. I suspected it was true for most of the last five years, now I know.

Yep. And I know people just by the general way they talk who wouldn't admit they were going to vote UKIP, but you knew they would. Working class people. People that are already being affected by the changes and will almost certainly suffer more. Ignorance. A refusal to look at the long term. Me, me, me. Now, now, now.

We didn't see any Conservative posters in windows. They have been too ashamed to admit they were voting for them.

I have been saying it for a long time that there was more sympathy for UKIP among the working class than most decent people wanted to believe.

I put the blame firmly on the BBC.

And as for the Scots, give them independence, withdraw lock stock and barrel, and fuck em. Let them suffer.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:41 am

This is a good post:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... t-51751191

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:41 am

Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft · 34 mins34 minutes ago
Ok let's now get on immediately with constituency boundary changes and reducing MPs from 650 to 600.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:42 am

The left are well-meaning but not always very smart. A cross-party strategy to ensure we collectively kicked the Tories out would have given us a good chance to use our collective resources most efficiently to win the starting point we needed to then negotiate on other stuff. Instead what we have will put us back decades. But the answer is not to blame each other for it and divide ourselves further. It is to learn very very quickly from these mistakes, recognise the real enemy and start fighting it off. Let's call ourselves, for example, allies.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:42 am

daydreamer wrote:
yahyah wrote:Just to add...in my constituency the council handled the Coalition's changes in voting registration very well. Labour here got 9.7%, only 5.8% in 2010.

Could that be a factor ?
Has I've been avoiding the MSM, could someone please tell me what Dan Jarvis' % was, up or down? I only mention as Barnsley Council, as far as I know, automatically registered everyone. Everyone I know didn't have to do a thing but still received their polling cards. If Yahyah's theory holds any water at all then his % will have gone up? Though, don't forget it is a safe Labour seat.

Figures aren't up on Barnsley wiki entry yet.

Would really appreciate following this with help, seeing if the hunch has any validity.
But how do we find out who/where may have been disenfranchised ?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:43 am

If they let Ed go...That's it for me.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:43 am

Am v sorry to say G has Ed arriving to stand down. V grim.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:44 am

Whenever I think I couldn't hate the Tories more than I already do, I find that in actual fact I can.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:44 am

Morning all.

Terrible results in the main but some good ones here and there.

Mike Gapes in my one (Ilford South) increased his share by 15% and Labour took back Ilford North.

My daughter voted in Cambridge...and helped Labour to a win over Julian Huppert so I'm pleased that she's started her voting life on the side of a winner.

Noticed that Laws lost Yeovil - a bit sad since he was clearly on the right side of the education debate and wanted change from Gove-max.

Future?

1. An EU referendum will sort UKIP once and for all whichever way it goes although I think they're sunk now.
2. If we exit, expect Scotland to get an automatic referendum away from rUK
3. I shudder to think what public services will look like in 5 years. Not great. If Labour get back in what will be left to do?
3. I have a thesis to finish so will spend even less time here than I do now an certainly not on AS where it's swamped by vile gloating Tories. There's only one thing worse than a bad loser, and that's a bad winner.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:45 am

ohsocynical wrote:If they let Ed go...That's it for me.

and me, I'm cancelling my membership now.

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:45 am

21 seats left to declare. Do we know how many of them will be tory? They're currently on 314

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:46 am

Am too upset now, going off for a bath and to freshen up.

But if anyone here is closer to the Labour HQ than they let on...please tell Ed there's a woman in Wales who thanks him from the bottom of her heart.

He's shown courage, and remarkable resilience.
He was the sort of man this country needs.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 08 May, 2015 9:50 am

Harry Leslie Smith ‏@Harryslaststand · 1h1 hour ago
70 years on Victory in Europe Day seems a little sadder to me b/c we have now officially replaced hope with fear #GE2015