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letsskiptotheleft wrote:Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but allow me one, Murphy saying that homes in London would pay for Scottish nurses was a mistake, now if another said mansions would get taxed to pay for affordable homes in the south east that would have been more palatable. Scotland has more per head than any other region apart from NI as it is.
I agree - it was an attempt to "out Nat" the Nats which only succeeded in making people outside London cross.
All that said, Murphy did his best with a terrible hand after being elected leader and his contributions both immediately after his defeat and today were eloquent and classy. Maybe if he had decided to go to the aid of the Scottish party after the 2011 defeat he might have made a difference - but he preferred to stay down in London and gossip about Ed to hacks (not least the one and only DFH) Let that be a lesson
Last edited by AnatolyKasparov on Fri 08 May, 2015 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Farmers have been spared the need to go to court to fight for the continuation of the badger cull thanks to the Conservatives' election victory.
Senior NFU members in the South West were poised to press their organisation to launch a judicial review challenging Ed Miliband’s party over its pledge to scrap the cull. But the Tory majority means the 25-year TB eradication policy, drawn up under Owen Paterson as Secretary of State at Defra and followed by his successor, Liz Truss, will now continue.
With a majority government, unimpeded by the Lib Dems, many livestock farmers are hoping the long-awaited cull roll-out, reportedly suspended last year on the orders of Nick Clegg, can now go ahead. Heavily infected areas, including West Dorset and North Devon, are likely to be among the first to be pressing for further culling and farmers in both areas are believed to be ready to go. Meanwhile the third year of a four year pilot cull programme in Somerset and Gloucestershire looks likely to get under way this autumn. Britain's vets support the cull, although they want cage-trapping and shooting to be the method used, rather than shooting 'free-running' badgers...
So ... the policy that David Cameron admitted was the least popular policy of his government - and shown to be unsupported by a majority of the public in surveys - is now going to be full steam or full slaughter ahead. What the hell sort of country do people want this to be?
PorFavor wrote:There are people that you feel you can get behind and work with (and I would gladly do so when that person becomes evident). But there are people you find inspirational and with whom you have an affinity. Ed Miliband is, for me, one of the latter - so much so that he motivated me, a lapsed (actually, I resigned) member to rejoin the Labour Party. He will be a very hard act to follow. I await developments.
Edited to add -
@SpinningHugo
I appreciate that you and I have different views on the future of the Labour Party but I would suggest that your, frankly brutal, approach to people who are feeling bruised is not the way to build a cohesive Party and avoid destructive fractures in the future. I was prepared to give more space to the LibDems than you seem to be prepared to grant many of us here.
Likewise. Also resigned and also rejoined. There are few people like Ed around at all, never mind in politics. He only needed a little more positive exposure - say the Guardian had welecomed him four years earlier or Kevin Maguire hadn't felt the need to be so negative - and things may well have been very different. The journalists are quick to blame, but they are at the heart of it.
George Eaton @georgeeaton · 29m 29 minutes ago
Labour leadership: Burnham, Cooper, Jarvis and Umunna all standing according to sources, and possibly Kendall.
Aaaaarrrrggggh.
Not sure I want to know anything about this right now.
Not sure I'd want to back any of the people named either. Well, some of them I'm sure I wouldn't want to back.
George Eaton @georgeeaton · 29m 29 minutes ago
Labour leadership: Burnham, Cooper, Jarvis and Umunna all standing according to sources, and possibly Kendall.
Aaaaarrrrggggh.
Not sure I want to know anything about this right now.
Not sure I'd want to back any of the people named either. Well, some of them I'm sure I wouldn't want to back.
Well, that's ruined my day even more. If it's Cooper or Umunna, then the Labour party is finished. Murdoch really will have won.
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but allow me one, Murphy saying that homes in London would pay for Scottish nurses was a mistake, now if another said mansions would get taxed to pay for affordable homes in the south east that would have been more palatable. Scotland has more per head than any other region apart from NI as it is.
I agree - it was an attempt to "out Nat" the Nats which only succeeded in making people outside London cross.
All that said, Murphy did his best with a terrible hand after being elected leader and his contributions both immediately after his defeat and today were eloquent and classy. Maybe if he had decided to go to the aid of the Scottish party after the 2011 defeat he might have made a difference - but he preferred to stay down in London and gossip about Ed to hacks (not least the one and only DFH) Let that be a lesson
He was the wrong man. Too much associated with Iraq, Trident and Westminster.
He did his best though, and most of the damage was done long before him.
George Eaton @georgeeaton · 29m 29 minutes ago
Labour leadership: Burnham, Cooper, Jarvis and Umunna all standing according to sources, and possibly Kendall.
Aaaaarrrrggggh.
Not sure I want to know anything about this right now.
Not sure I'd want to back any of the people named either. Well, some of them I'm sure I wouldn't want to back.
Well, that's ruined my day even more. If it's Cooper or Umunna, then the Labour party is finished. Murdoch really will have won.
I suspect Burnham or Jarvis. Problem is the dead hand of the Blairites.
I don't actually have a problem necessarily but both Cooper and Umunna are useless communicators.
abby #ThankYouEd @twcuddleston · 58s58 seconds ago
Hi we're the #milifandom and for our audition we'll be singing "I want you back" by the Jackson 5 #ThankYouEd
The girl is a force of nature. Stuck two fingers up to Murdoch and Mensch, created a movement and is now leading a call to ask Ed to reconsider - I wouldn't bet against her succeeding either!! She punted the idea for #ThankYouEd earlier this evening and it has flown straight to the top of the trends.
I've been seriously thinking about one of those petitions (change or whatever) if we could get a good person to start it and we could get load of names - could we get him back? Or am I being silly?
I don't think it's silly - at the very least it tells the man something.
George Eaton @georgeeaton · 29m 29 minutes ago
Labour leadership: Burnham, Cooper, Jarvis and Umunna all standing according to sources, and possibly Kendall.
Aaaaarrrrggggh.
Not sure I want to know anything about this right now.
Not sure I'd want to back any of the people named either. Well, some of them I'm sure I wouldn't want to back.
Can Ed run again? What's to stop him treating it like a vote of confidence ?
Last edited by AngryAsWell on Fri 08 May, 2015 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I'm exhausted. Thank you all for engaging today - it helped. Even had a few laughs.
I think it's worth a shot at having another go round with Ed Miliband. It's not a law that leaders should fade away if they lose an election, simply a custom. Although, as has been mentioned, he's probably needing a bit of rest and time right now. Perhaps we could send a message of solidarity to him from here (from people who are are agreeable - it needn't necessarily be a "site" message but a "named user" message). Anyway, just a thought for another day.
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
The girl is a force of nature. Stuck two fingers up to Murdoch and Mensch, created a movement and is now leading a call to ask Ed to reconsider - I wouldn't bet against her succeeding either!! She punted the idea for #ThankYouEd earlier this evening and it has flown straight to the top of the trends.
I've been seriously thinking about one of those petitions (change or whatever) if we could get a good person to start it and we could get load of names - could we get him back? Or am I being silly?
I don't think you are. Maybe he just doesn't have the appetite for it any more but who knows; give it a day or so to let the dust settle and tempers cool, and he might be persuaded to throw his hat back in the ring - it worked for John Major, he came back stronger after he put himself up for re-election and Ed is three times the man Major was. And, as I said, I wouldn't put anything past that girl at the moment; I share a lot of Ohso's frustration but with people luke her and the Whippersnap crew it isn't all bleak.
Blimey, listen to us all. 12 hours ago we were all ready for a Dignitas group booking and now we're planning a comeback tour.
Yeah. 'Cos we're bad ass mothers and we ain't going to let no puffin-faced prick be dissin' the Ed.
(Or words to that effect, eh chaps?).
PorFavor wrote:Well, I'm exhausted. Thank you all for engaging today - it helped. Even had a few laughs.
I think it's worth a shot at having another go round with Ed Miliband. It's not a law that leaders should fade away if they lose an election, simply a custom. Although, as has been mentioned, he's probably needing a bit of rest and time right now. Perhaps we could send a message of solidarity to him from here (from people who are are agreeable - it needn't necessarily be a "site" message but a "named user" message). Anyway, just a thought for another day.
PorFavor wrote:Well, I'm exhausted. Thank you all for engaging today - it helped. Even had a few laughs.
I think it's worth a shot at having another go round with Ed Miliband. It's not a law that leaders should fade away if they lose an election, simply a custom. Although, as has been mentioned, he's probably needing a bit of rest and time right now. Perhaps we could send a message of solidarity to him from here (from people who are are agreeable - it needn't necessarily be a "site" message but a "named user" message). Anyway, just a thought for another day.
I hope you all manage to have a good rest.
Goodnight.
Forgot to say good night on last post, hope you feel better after a good nights sleep
Edit to add
Night Grim as well, and anyone who is off to bed
Last edited by AngryAsWell on Fri 08 May, 2015 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
abby #ThankYouEd @twcuddleston · 58s58 seconds ago
Hi we're the #milifandom and for our audition we'll be singing "I want you back" by the Jackson 5 #ThankYouEd
The girl is a force of nature. Stuck two fingers up to Murdoch and Mensch, created a movement and is now leading a call to ask Ed to reconsider - I wouldn't bet against her succeeding either!! She punted the idea for #ThankYouEd earlier this evening and it has flown straight to the top of the trends.
I've been seriously thinking about one of those petitions (change or whatever) if we could get a good person to start it and we could get load of names - could we get him back? Or am I being silly?
Doubt it. There will already be plots, offers, and counter offers. And I for one don't believe Twitter has as much power as it fancies it has.
All those who didn't bother to go out to vote yesterday, following a hashtag today?
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Farmers have been spared the need to go to court to fight for the continuation of the badger cull thanks to the Conservatives' election victory.
Senior NFU members in the South West were poised to press their organisation to launch a judicial review challenging Ed Miliband’s party over its pledge to scrap the cull. But the Tory majority means the 25-year TB eradication policy, drawn up under Owen Paterson as Secretary of State at Defra and followed by his successor, Liz Truss, will now continue.
With a majority government, unimpeded by the Lib Dems, many livestock farmers are hoping the long-awaited cull roll-out, reportedly suspended last year on the orders of Nick Clegg, can now go ahead. Heavily infected areas, including West Dorset and North Devon, are likely to be among the first to be pressing for further culling and farmers in both areas are believed to be ready to go. Meanwhile the third year of a four year pilot cull programme in Somerset and Gloucestershire looks likely to get under way this autumn. Britain's vets support the cull, although they want cage-trapping and shooting to be the method used, rather than shooting 'free-running' badgers...
So ... the policy that David Cameron admitted was the least popular policy of his government - and shown to be unsupported by a majority of the public in surveys - is now going to be full steam or full slaughter ahead. What the hell sort of country do people want this to be?
A thoughtless, cruel, and heartless one. No, most people will have no idea that this is what the country is more likely to be under this government. Most people are heedless...
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
ohsocynical wrote:Many are failing to realise that a big chunk of those we once thought of as solid Labour voters are now extremely right wing in some of their views.
A lot of working class Labour hate the system where single mothers get a house, have most of their rent paid, and then frequently go on to have a couple more children by different, absent fathers. And yes I could personally give you quite a few names.
The old Labour voters have children of their own who marry or enter into a settled partnership. They do the right thing but will never be able to buy their own home, and now haven't a bats chance in hell of getting a council house, even though they were born in the town.
And now for them, it adds insult to injury to see more and more immigants moving here, many of whom get priority because of their needs.
I believe Obama's step mother was one such imigrant. Not sure if she still lives here...
Perhaps Ed could have beefed up the rhetoric on the more inflammable subjects, but while it might have pleased one lot it would have offended another.
I guarantee that'll be why Labour voters changed to Conservative or UKIP.
It's the old story of the politician, the businessman, the worker and the immigrant sitting round a table with a plate of biscuits. The politician takes nine biscuits and shares them out with the businessman. Then turns to the worker, nods at the immigrant and says 'look out, he's after your biscuit'.
Labour should be about making sure there are biscuits for everyone, not ignoring the needs of the vulnerable to prop up its votes. There is an argument to be made that immigrants can be good for the country and good for communities. But they also need to help both parties adjust. And there are other aspects to consider - I happen to think that Labour's approach on agencies, pay and recruitment was bang on. It was dealing with the real issue, which is the fear that immigrants displace locals and undercut wages. The benefits thing is a red herring, but no-one really seemed to be prepared to highlight that.
I strongly suspect that it was Ukip votes that kept Labour from taking Tory marginals.
As I said earlier, I think the basic approach is right, and while it might not initially win as many votes as the rhetoric of getting rid of foreigners, it is ultimately more sustainable.
Agree, the basic approach is right, and more truthful. However, if Cooper and especially, Umunna, get the leadership, we can kiss it good bye. Both brought and paid for by the vested interests.
PorFavor wrote:Well, I'm exhausted. Thank you all for engaging today - it helped. Even had a few laughs.
I think it's worth a shot at having another go round with Ed Miliband. It's not a law that leaders should fade away if they lose an election, simply a custom. Although, as has been mentioned, he's probably needing a bit of rest and time right now. Perhaps we could send a message of solidarity to him from here (from people who are are agreeable - it needn't necessarily be a "site" message but a "named user" message). Anyway, just a thought for another day.
I hope you all manage to have a good rest.
Goodnight.
You'd be welcome to put my name on that message
Sleep deeply and dream sweetly, PF xxx
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
Eric_WLothian wrote:
Personally, I can't wait to see what happens when Cameron tells them to f*** off - or better, just ignores them. After all he has nothing to lose.
Cameron didn't win the election, Murdoch did.
My bold.
Or until Murdoch tells him otherwise...
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
I can't decide between puffin faced prick and spamfaced cockwomble as my epithet of choice but the prospect of years more of him and his simpering spouse and his pointing finger is annoying the hell out of me.
Welcome Paddington Bear and Tony2063 and thanks for your posts
.
Is Radio 5 the most unashamedly right wing national radio station in this country? Stephen Nolan can't get the grin out of his voice; earlier Peter Allen said "Cameron will close the door at no.10 and shout "Yes!", while one of his reporters was gleeful ("Ha ha brilliant" he said) about finding a voter in Balls's constituency who called Miliband a "muppet" four minutes after his resignation speech.
Oh, and John Pienaar.
I hadn't listened to its news coverage for many months before today. I dare say it'll be a while before I bother again.
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Except Rusty of course, who again needs to be reminded - nobody here cares what he thinks.
Remember all those articles saying how Major's victory in 92 was the start of Tory hegemony.
Yep, me too.
I keep reminding myself of all of the things that have been left undone that they now have only themselves to blame when things go wrong.
For instance, how long before they admit that UC is an utter failure and get rid of it?
I did wonder whether they'll take IDS away from that department so that when they announce its death, he's not around to take the blame. Stick someone in who's not been there before and no-one will blame.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
NonOxCol wrote:Is Radio 5 the most unashamedly right wing national radio station in this country? Stephen Nolan can't get the grin out of his voice; earlier Peter Allen said "Cameron will close the door at no.10 and shout "Yes!", while one of his reporters was gleeful ("Ha ha brilliant" he said) about finding a voter in Balls's constituency who called Miliband a "muppet" four minutes after his resignation speech.
Oh, and John Pienaar.
I hadn't listened to its news coverage for many months before today. I dare say it'll be a while before I bother again.
They are odious twats the lot of them. The BBC doesn't even pretend to be politically neutral.
Peter Allen is a complete arse, always was, always will be. Pienaar is just clueless establishment drone.
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Except Rusty of course, who again needs to be reminded - nobody here cares what he thinks.
Remember all those articles saying how Major's victory in 92 was the start of Tory hegemony.
Yep, me too.
I keep reminding myself of all of the things that have been left undone that they now have only themselves to blame when things go wrong.
For instance, how long before they admit that UC is an utter failure and get rid of it?
I did wonder whether they'll take IDS away from that department so that when they announce its death, he's not around to take the blame. Stick someone in who's not been there before and no-one will blame.
There is indeed a small formation of chickens circling round looking for somewhere to roost. The ones marked NHS, Referendum, UC, and uncosted spending promises look the most knackered.
Finally hashing things over with Mr Ohso after a very quiet day licking my wounds....
As you know he's an American and they have a tendency to like conspiracy theories, [sorry citizenJA] so I make allowances, but he swears there is something dodgy about the results...
I remember being a bit worried about trusting the results knowing what twisting bastards the Conservatives have shown themselves to be.
I guess we'll never know.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
I'm calling it quits for tonight as well. Thanks be to everybody's invaluable company in misery: I haven't been fit to be let out today. Your shared defiance is inspirational.
ohsocynical wrote:Finally hashing things over with Mr Ohso after a very quiet day licking my wounds....
As you know he's an American and they have a tendency to like conspiracy theories, [sorry citizenJA] so I make allowances, but he swears there is something dodgy about the results...
I remember being a bit worried about trusting the results knowing what twisting bastards the Conservatives have shown themselves to be.
mbc1955 wrote:I'm calling it quits for tonight as well. Thanks be to everybody's invaluable company in misery: I haven't been fit to be let out today. Your shared defiance is inspirational.
NonOxCol wrote:Is Radio 5 the most unashamedly right wing national radio station in this country? Stephen Nolan can't get the grin out of his voice; earlier Peter Allen said "Cameron will close the door at no.10 and shout "Yes!", while one of his reporters was gleeful ("Ha ha brilliant" he said) about finding a voter in Balls's constituency who called Miliband a "muppet" four minutes after his resignation speech.
Oh, and John Pienaar.
I hadn't listened to its news coverage for many months before today. I dare say it'll be a while before I bother again.
They are odious twats the lot of them. The BBC doesn't even pretend to be politically neutral.
Peter Allen is a complete arse, always was, always will be. Pienaar is just clueless establishment drone.
Simples. If enough people refuse to listen or watch them, the viewing figures might prompt changes....
I know I rabbit on about Tesco, but a boycott over Workfare which opened eyes to their other dodgy practices, cost them dearly. They are still feeling the results.
Once you stop using a place or organisation and use other, more ethical outlets instead, then a great many never go back.
They have to really clean house to regain confidence.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Just before bed, and my XXth birthday is an hour away as well (would have wanted a better present)
I have just wandered into the world of MSM and get a feeling some of the centre-left commentators (or less rabidly right-wing anyway) are beginning to shit themselves
The prospect of the EU chaos, coupled with SNP agitation and a whole load of nonsense in terms of Tory policies is starting to seem less palatable in the cold light of day
The election campaign is like a contest where the focus is on who 'wins' but in the end it is the following 5 years that matter - some have been too interested in looking at this game rather than what the consequences will be.
The reality is the Tories ran an appalling campaign and came up with a real mess of policies. Labour won hands down in most areas apart from this nonsense about the SNP and coalitions....
The one hope is that public opinion is fickle and we can see what can happen in a short time if the feeling is the Government is no longer competent (Black Wednesday, Friday post Scottish referendum etc) - we should not forget that the Tories didn't win because people really thing they have good policies....
howsillyofme1 wrote:Just before bed, and my XXth birthday is an hour away as well (would have wanted a better present)
I have just wandered into the world of MSM and get a feeling some of the centre-left commentators (or less rabidly right-wing anyway) are beginning to shit themselves
The prospect of the EU chaos, coupled with SNP agitation and a whole load of nonsense in terms of Tory policies is starting to seem less palatable in the cold light of day
The election campaign is like a contest where the focus is on who 'wins' but in the end it is the following 5 years that matter - some have been too interested in looking at this game rather than what the consequences will be.
The reality is the Tories ran an appalling campaign and came up with a real mess of policies. Labour won hands down in most areas apart from this nonsense about the SNP and coalitions....
The one hope is that public opinion is fickle and we can see what can happen in a short time if the feeling is the Government is no longer competent (Black Wednesday, Friday post Scottish referendum etc) - we should not forget that the Tories didn't win because people really thing they have good policies....
A bit lame I'm sorry but
Happy Birthday (away from politics)
howsillyofme1 wrote:Just before bed, and my XXth birthday is an hour away as well (would have wanted a better present)
I have just wandered into the world of MSM and get a feeling some of the centre-left commentators (or less rabidly right-wing anyway) are beginning to shit themselves
The prospect of the EU chaos, coupled with SNP agitation and a whole load of nonsense in terms of Tory policies is starting to seem less palatable in the cold light of day
The election campaign is like a contest where the focus is on who 'wins' but in the end it is the following 5 years that matter - some have been too interested in looking at this game rather than what the consequences will be.
The reality is the Tories ran an appalling campaign and came up with a real mess of policies. Labour won hands down in most areas apart from this nonsense about the SNP and coalitions....
The one hope is that public opinion is fickle and we can see what can happen in a short time if the feeling is the Government is no longer competent (Black Wednesday, Friday post Scottish referendum etc) - we should not forget that the Tories didn't win because people really thing they have good policies....
A bit lame I'm sorry but
Happy Birthday (away from politics)
If I don't have enough
It's because
They're taking
Too much
These scroungers,
Dog end voters,
Plebs,
All round
Not fit to live
Benefit cheats.
At least
That's what I see and hear,
And who am I
To argue
When Dave has
The rich,
Non-Dom,
Tax dodging
Newspaper mogul's ear?
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
TechnicalEphemera wrote:By the way, if you are in the South West visit the Exmoor Pony Centre and hug a pony. You will feel better
(they particularly enjoy having their bottom scratched just above the tail as they can't reach that bit).
Thankfully both our Labour councillors have been re-elected to the district council so we are still officially a Labour village even if we are now sitting in a giant sea of blue that stretches from North Somerset all the way to Land's End. Indeed, district-wise, we actually picked up a few more Labour councillors than previously, although still only a modest 6, so at least some Libdems must have jumped Labour's way. Stuck with Rees-Mogg, but it was gifted to him really by the boundary commission which created a proper Tory seat out of the previous marginal. Bit like how Cameron needed Murdoch to win the election for him with his SNP mates. I think what we've really learned from this election is that cheater's win.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
TechnicalEphemera wrote:By the way, if you are in the South West visit the Exmoor Pony Centre and hug a pony. You will feel better
(they particularly enjoy having their bottom scratched just above the tail as they can't reach that bit).
Thankfully both our Labour councillors have been re-elected to the district council so we are still officially a Labour village even if we are now sitting in a giant sea of blue that stretches from North Somerset all the way to Land's End. Indeed, district-wise, we actually picked up a few more Labour councillors than previously, although still only a modest 6, so at least some Libdems must have jumped Labour's way. Stuck with Rees-Mogg, but it was gifted to him really by the boundary commission which created a proper Tory seat out of the previous marginal. Bit like how Cameron needed Murdoch to win the election for him with his SNP mates. I think what we've really learned from this election is that cheater's win.
You haven't been amending the text of signs held up by Tory voting trees have you?
I noticed a rebellious streak around the area, not to mention a creative use of a spray can.
'What Labour needs most urgently now is not soul-searching or a hunt for first principles, but instead to figure out how to convert these principles into the sort of policies that might just catch the ear of a radio listener or TV viewer who is only half paying attention, and which the next party leader will be able to use to unfold the intelligible story that Mr Miliband was not in the end able to tell.'
The Guardian view on the Labour defeat: a failure of political direction – and of strategy
ohsocynical wrote:... Look to the States folks, look to the States. We lag a few years behind them, but what you see there, now, you will be seeing here in 10-15 years time.
I fear you're right, ohso, that's the direction this lot would like to head. People like Liam Fox are still around looking for their way back. 'And let's not forget his Atlantic Bridge mates, or is it Pargav or some such? Nor Rupe and his fondness for ALEC.
Murdoch really will have won.
