Forum rules Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
citizenJA wrote:Chris Hedges, US political journalist. 'If you want change, you'll have to destroy the system'.
Hedges is non-violent.
If we're giving up Sainsbury's, how about we think on doing a full retreat into allotment gardens, raising chickens, pooling our resources, setting up our own clinics & declining to need what Tories insist upon selling to us?
That's a way of destroying the system.
Decline to use or rely on it.
Standing together.
I offer this merely as an idea. It's certainly not a new one.
Except they keep nicking the allotments back in order to build on them.
I know.
It's been going badly for regular people since the Land Enclosure Acts.
howsillyofme1 wrote:This Government is going to do severe damage and the next Government has to be one from the left - and the only option is Labour-led. There needs to be better co-operation and dialogue between all those who oppose the Tories - the sniping and untruths about each other should stop. There is no need to agree on everything but we can behave like adults when we don't. The time to do this is now, in opposition - and the Government does not have a great majority.
Thankyou for articulating this. It was something I had been feeling this morning. I want to embrace those on the left, the Greens, the social democrats in Scotland, the remaining left-liberals etc as fellow-travellers. I don't want another period of scrapping over relatively minor differences. I know the Greens are here to stay and that's a good thing for our planet.
One of the things it wa so hard to adjust to during the last parliament was that Labour was being attacked from all sides. From the Tories for economic incompetence, with the LibDems joining in, and from the left for a lack of ideological purity. The media allowed the coalition partners to tag-team Labour for a couple of years, and then towards the end the other leftwing parties joined in from the other side. Labour didn't do enough to bring them round, though it would be nice if they could meet us halfway.
Those of us who aren't Tories (or Ukip) need to find our common ground and meet there.
Yes.
Think of how important it is to Tories to prevent that common ground from forming.
AngryAsWell wrote:Interesting from the North Yorks Enquirer
"If it should turn out that the tie-wrapping of ballot-boxes has extended throughout the constituency, this may raise the spectre of the Thirsk & Malton election being nullified, with the prospect of a re-run in a couple of months time"
@Ohsocynical
I think Ed did a damn good job of saying we shouldn't begrudge those less well off and he was going to fight for them.
All it did was drive more greedy sods to vote Ukip or Tory.
I know.
What to do against this.
What do you want, UK peoples?
Because you're going to get it.
If the path we're on isn't altered, we're going to end up where we're headed.
In this media age do we go more by head than heart ?
Jarvis comes across well from what I've seen, and if we are leaching votes in the North someone who won't get written off by people who've shifted to UKIP must be an advantage.
But Jarvis would wind up the green leaners, because of his military background.
Don't know where he stands within Labour either...if anyone does would you mind sharing your views please ?
Would like a strong woman other than Cooper to consider, but she has too much baggage.
We don't have the luxury of the small parties, we need a leader who people of all types/ages/social groups will listen to.
Afternoon Yahyah,
I'm not enthused by most of the candidates standing. I feel Labour will end up going backwards, to Blairism again. Jarvis does indeed come across well, and seems a committed local MP.
Do you mean he won't get written off by people who've moved to UKIP because of his military background or because his constituency is in the North (though, of course, he was parachuted in from somewhere down south. Not that it's a problem, he seems to be doing a good enough job, only in that it might affect how new UKIP/old Labour voters react to him)?
Even though he's my MP I'm ashamed to say that I don't know where he stands in the party, i.e. left or right, Blairite? etc. I'll have to look at his voting record/interviews he's done.
I agree with you about Cooper, and I certainly don't want Umunna.
I'll be blunt.
I think Jarvis who will appeal to a certain type of [usually] male who has certain concepts about what it is to be a man. The media onslaught used the idea of Ed as geek, helpless, wet etc.
Hard to do that with a man with Jarvis's background.
Please don't shout at me anyone....I, and my husband, loved Ed and his way of doing things but think we have to look at what will appeal to other non committed Labour voters in 2020.
The media's nasty behaviour will not get any better in that time.
Does anyone know where Jarvis stands within Labour's political spectrum ?
I think it was PorFavor who said yesterday we need to play dirty now.
Not necessarily dirty, which may imply cheating, but we've got to adapt to the conditions of the game. You don't turn up for ice hockey wearing a ball gown.
I admire everyone here sharing these ideas. It may not be comfortable, but we must know reality.
howsillyofme1 wrote:
What we want is a Blair but without the weakness - someone who can act like a Trojan Horse and then do what Blair didn't do and really take on the vested interests
I'm going to ask what may seem to be a stupid question - but here goes -
How would we know that that was what that "someone" was? S\he would have to keep their true intentions a closely guarded secret from absolutely everyone.
I don't think they would though
They just have to escape the easy criticism thrown at them by the media - the electorate don't look at the policies in any detail do they; they just look at the soundbites. If they were bothered about the detail then there is no way they would vote for Farage or Cameron
How many people who voted for Farage know he was a banker and a public schoolboy? Not many from my own experience - when I tell them it is a shock. Why did they not know; because the media didn't tell them
I don't think I have seen anyone say that Labour went into the election with the wrong policies - some of the language was wrong 'hard-working families' but that did not lose them the election
What lost them the election were:
Onslaught from the Scottish collapse and the SNP
The vilification of Miliband by the media
The collapse of the LD
The continual harking back to 2010 and that fucking note!
If we try to look forward then some of those will be less significant in 2020 and I would not propose there is much done about the policies at the moment as they are in an okay shape and will just need reviewing prior to the next election
Do we really need a major change of direction?
What we need though is a leader that will not immediately be attacked and undermined - the risk of a Burnham is Mid-Staffs - we know it is all lies but the MSM will set the narrative and it will be that we hear from now until 2020 - it is for people to judge whether this is too much of a risk
What I would want to see is a new leader in place within weeks, and us going on the attack from now - the Tories are vulnerable. Take the constituency changes for example - there are more MPs now who will no longer have constituencies after 2020 - I remember some not very happy backbenchers when this was first discussed
Some amendments about keeping 650 and basing registration on population rather than registered voters may cause some upset in ToryLand!
The focus should be on how we communicate with the electorate - energy in making sure the vote gets out next time and focusing on those who are being hit by Tory policies...and there are going to be a lot of them.
This is not 83- we are up against a useless PM with a small majority who has various a lot of problems coming up of his own making - one day the electorate will click and then we shall see what happens - we just have to make sure it is not UKIP who gains
citizenJA wrote:Chris Hedges, US political journalist. 'If you want change, you'll have to destroy the system'.
Hedges is non-violent.
If we're giving up Sainsbury's, how about we think on doing a full retreat into allotment gardens, raising chickens, pooling our resources, setting up our own clinics & declining to need what Tories insist upon selling to us?
That's a way of destroying the system.
Decline to use or rely on it.
Standing together.
I offer this merely as an idea. It's certainly not a new one.
Except they keep nicking the allotments back in order to build on them.
As a fruit grower (amateur), it's a nice ideal but not practical for many. Most will not have the time or inclination to 'grow your own'. One failed season and they would be back to the supermarket.
And... it's cheaper and easier at the supermarket.
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
Mark Ferguson @Markfergusonuk · 1h 1 hour ago
Hearing Mary Creagh is throwing her hat into the ring for Labour leader. More hats thrown than a fight in a hat shop at this rate
Now she is good. Always on top of her brief. Very good speaker - articulate, well briefed as I said, and can properly do passion.
Jarvis and Creagh - could be a good team?
Just checked out some videos of Creagh and was impressed.
Disappointing to see Jarvis is on the right.
But, do we want a leader who can get elected, and hope the party drags him leftward ?
Ok, I know the word Blair crops up, but he did win three elections.
Can you imagine what the country would be like if the Tories had won in 97, 2001 & 2005 ?
Last edited by yahyah on Sat 09 May, 2015 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks for my welcome. I really appreciated the warmth.
I made it through work yesterday - and had a bash at explaining why we still have David Cameron - to a six year old.
'But...what's WRONG with people, why do they want to keep everything for themselves ?' She hopes Ed is alright too.
After forty hours with no sleep, I was out like a light -'til this morning and I started to remember. I thought I'd try and blot it out and avoid the media .
There's a Guardian on the kitchen table - but the radio is off and I'm keeping myself busy sorting out a couple of rucksacks full of outdoor gear for Edale Mountain Rescue to send to Nepal. Now there's a reminder that some are suffering more than me !
howsillyofme1 wrote:This Government is going to do severe damage and the next Government has to be one from the left - and the only option is Labour-led. There needs to be better co-operation and dialogue between all those who oppose the Tories - the sniping and untruths about each other should stop. There is no need to agree on everything but we can behave like adults when we don't. The time to do this is now, in opposition - and the Government does not have a great majority.
Thankyou for articulating this. It was something I had been feeling this morning. I want to embrace those on the left, the Greens, the social democrats in Scotland, the remaining left-liberals etc as fellow-travellers. I don't want another period of scrapping over relatively minor differences. I know the Greens are here to stay and that's a good thing for our planet.
One of the things it wa so hard to adjust to during the last parliament was that Labour was being attacked from all sides. From the Tories for economic incompetence, with the LibDems joining in, and from the left for a lack of ideological purity. The media allowed the coalition partners to tag-team Labour for a couple of years, and then towards the end the other leftwing parties joined in from the other side. Labour didn't do enough to bring them round, though it would be nice if they could meet us halfway.
Those of us who aren't Tories (or Ukip) need to find our common ground and meet there.
To be truthful the "other left" did too much hateful damage to a very good, honerable man for me to ever forgive them. They helped lose us one of the best PM we could ever have had. They lied and lied and lied. "They signed up to 30 million of cuts" said time and again, even after they knew without doubt that was not true, Bennett even used it in the debates. Those 1000 here an there votes lost us some good people and they knew that when standing in marginals that they knew they had no chance of winning, they also knew they would take enough votes from us to lose us the seat. And they did.
One at least did realise (too late - day before election) what he was about to do, but left it so late his name was still on the ballot paper.
No time for them. None at all they are just Tory enablers who have helped put this country down. There will be no way back after 10 years of tory's.
AngryAsWell wrote:
To be truthful the "other left" did too much hateful damage to a very good, honerable man for me to ever forgive them. They helped lose us one of the best PM we could ever have had. They lied and lied and lied. "They signed up to 30 million of cuts" said time and again, even after they knew without doubt that was not true, Bennett even used it in the debates. Those 1000 here an there votes lost us some good people and they knew that when standing in marginals that they knew they had no chance of winning, they also knew they would take enough votes from us to lose us the seat. And they did.
One at least did realise (too late - day before election) what he was about to do, but left it so late his name was still on the ballot paper.
No time for them. None at all they are just Tory enablers who have helped put this country down. There will be no way back after 10 years of tory's.
No thank button so..
Hear! Hear!
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
citizenJA wrote:Chris Hedges, US political journalist. 'If you want change, you'll have to destroy the system'.
Hedges is non-violent.
If we're giving up Sainsbury's, how about we think on doing a full retreat into allotment gardens, raising chickens, pooling our resources, setting up our own clinics & declining to need what Tories insist upon selling to us?
That's a way of destroying the system.
Decline to use or rely on it.
Standing together.
I offer this merely as an idea. It's certainly not a new one.
Except they keep nicking the allotments back in order to build on them.
As a fruit grower (amateur), it's a nice ideal but not practical for many. Most will not have the time or inclination to 'grow your own'. One failed season and they would be back to the supermarket.
And... it's cheaper and easier at the supermarket.
I meant full communal living - permaculture, not growing a single crop of anything. It's not a hobby. It's a life choice - labour intensive though probably less work & stress than what we've got now. Again, I'm throwing the idea out there as a mental exercise.
It's one way to non-violently 'destroy the system'.
It's only an idea.
howsillyofme1 wrote:This Government is going to do severe damage and the next Government has to be one from the left - and the only option is Labour-led. There needs to be better co-operation and dialogue between all those who oppose the Tories - the sniping and untruths about each other should stop. There is no need to agree on everything but we can behave like adults when we don't. The time to do this is now, in opposition - and the Government does not have a great majority.
Thankyou for articulating this. It was something I had been feeling this morning. I want to embrace those on the left, the Greens, the social democrats in Scotland, the remaining left-liberals etc as fellow-travellers. I don't want another period of scrapping over relatively minor differences. I know the Greens are here to stay and that's a good thing for our planet.
One of the things it wa so hard to adjust to during the last parliament was that Labour was being attacked from all sides. From the Tories for economic incompetence, with the LibDems joining in, and from the left for a lack of ideological purity. The media allowed the coalition partners to tag-team Labour for a couple of years, and then towards the end the other leftwing parties joined in from the other side. Labour didn't do enough to bring them round, though it would be nice if they could meet us halfway.
Those of us who aren't Tories (or Ukip) need to find our common ground and meet there.
To be truthful the "other left" did too much hateful damage to a very good, honerable man for me to ever forgive them. They helped lose us one of the best PM we could ever have had. They lied and lied and lied. "They signed up to 30 million of cuts" said time and again, even after they knew without doubt that was not true, Bennett even used it in the debates. Those 1000 here an there votes lost us some good people and they knew that when standing in marginals that they knew they had no chance of winning, they also knew they would take enough votes from us to lose us the seat. And they did.
One at least did realise (too late - day before election) what he was about to do, but left it so late his name was still on the ballot paper.
No time for them. None at all they are just Tory enablers who have helped put this country down. There will be no way back after 10 years of tory's.
Paddington Bear wrote:Thanks for my welcome. I really appreciated the warmth.
I made it through work yesterday - and had a bash at explaining why we still have David Cameron - to a six year old.
'But...what's WRONG with people, why do they want to keep everything for themselves ?' She hopes Ed is alright too.
After forty hours with no sleep, I was out like a light -'til this morning and I started to remember. I thought I'd try and blot it out and avoid the media .
There's a Guardian on the kitchen table - but the radio is off and I'm keeping myself busy sorting out a couple of rucksacks full of outdoor gear for Edale Mountain Rescue to send to Nepal. Now there's a reminder that some are suffering more than me !
Martin Rowson @MartinRowson · 22h 22 hours ago
If anyone cares at this point, I'm gunning (geddit?) for Dan Jarvis as leader. Labour needs someone who can kill Cameron with his bare hands
Thank you Martin Rowson. Managed to make me smile - even today.
That made me smile. But maybe a leader who could kill you with a single blow if you laughed at him eating a bacon sarnie may be no bad thing.
If he can charm women/gay men and make babies giggle he'd be a shoe-in.
John Woodcock MP was on some program knocking Ed last night, he's one of the "where were you in the campaign?" I complained of earlier. So are many on that list
Just poking around Progress site and see its their conference soon - wonder from that list who they will "pick" ?
Also note that several Vice-chairs of Progress are also joint Co-Op MP's - I find that odd.
I'm puzzled by the 'oh but he's a Progress vice-chair' & the link to the Telegraph.
The Telegraph link somebody posted earlier was written by Dan F Hodges FFS !
Look at the other names on the vc list:
Alison McGovern
Toby Perkins
Lucy Powell
Steve Reed
Not sure Lucy Powell could have worked any harder to get Ed elected & Toby Perkins has been hugely successful in helping by-election victories come Labour's way.
The tag is unhelpful & we need to consider that the country won't be prepared to vote for a hard-left candidate, as TUSC have proven time after time.
For those unsure of Jarvis, have a read of his Private Members’ Bill (or what he would have said if the Cons hadn't fillibustered to ensure it wouldn't be read), Make Work Pay.
(Thanks Robert for the link to his speeches & newspaper articles)
It's time to break from the Blair/Brown days. Much as I like what Andy Burnham has to say on the NHS, he doesn't cut the mustard on other matters - I'm thinking of the time he was asked about a policy announcement at Labour conference last year & he replied to Andrew Neil that it wasn't his area of expertise so couldn't answer the question !
Unfortunately he also has a history which will be thrown over him by the press & others such as Cure the NHS. Mid-Staffs/Hinchingbrooke/PFI will make it's way into every report of anything he might have ever said & we know how hard (impossible ?) it is to counter the lies uttered in the press - look at the 1200 deaths nonsense !
Meant to mention this sooner but thank you for fiddling with the site so that it's been reliable over the last 3 days. I know we miss the thanks button but having the site to behave with the huge increase in traffic is so much better.
citizenJA wrote: I meant full communal living - permaculture, not growing a single crop of anything. It's not a hobby. It's a life choice - labour intensive though probably less work & stress than what we've got now. Again, I'm throwing the idea out there as a mental exercise.
It's one way to non-violently 'destroy the system'.
It's only an idea.
And it's a very good idea, I would support it. Communal veg-plots/gardens do exist (my old stomping ground Todmorden has them) but society in general (ohso's 'I want it now' brigade) does not have the drive to make them viable countrywide. Communal living involves hard graft.
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
PorFavor wrote:Is this Jarvis chappie anything like Paddy Ashdown? I'm afraid he's rather set me against ex-army officer types. Pompous arse.
Well Ashdown is army family, travel the world, private school boarder type. Jarvis is ordinary comprehensive school joe who joined the army. So, no, he won't be much like Paddy Ashdown, I suspect.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Meant to mention this sooner but thank you for fiddling with the site so that it's been reliable over the last 3 days. I know we miss the thanks button but having the site to behave with the huge increase in traffic is so much better.
Where's a 'Thanks' button when you need it? It will be coming back, but considering the number of posts over the last couple of days (1250 & 900+), I'll give it a couple of days before tinkering.
Meant to mention this sooner but thank you for fiddling with the site so that it's been reliable over the last 3 days. I know we miss the thanks button but having the site to behave with the huge increase in traffic is so much better.
Where's a 'Thanks' button when you need it? It will be coming back, but considering the number of posts over the last couple of days (1250 & 900+), I'll give it a couple of days before tinkering.
Probably wise - better to be safe than sorry. Thanks for your great work.
AngryAsWell wrote:I suggest we co-opt Charlotte Church -
Charlotte Church venting her feelings at a post election rally in Wales
All I get on that link is:
This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed at the moment. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.
SpinningHugo wrote:The single most significant criterion for leader we should use is
"Who do the Tories not want us to elect?"
and if that points at a 'Blairite', suck it up.
Why do you think we're all talking about Jarvis, Hugo? He would neutralise a lot of the criticisms of Labour being all Oxbridge, metropolitan elite with no outside experience before he even opens his mouth. It's the policies, media handling ability and direction that remain unclear at this stage.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
The Conservatives will put massive efforts into destroying a Labour leader who isn't, at heart, more or less one of them. They'll only tolerate the existence of someone who won't threaten their privileges and influence. A Nick Clegg type, in some guise, in short.
AngryAsWell wrote:I suggest we co-opt Charlotte Church -
Charlotte Church venting her feelings at a post election rally in Wales
All I get on that link is:
This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed at the moment. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page.
howsillyofme1 wrote:This Government is going to do severe damage and the next Government has to be one from the left - and the only option is Labour-led. There needs to be better co-operation and dialogue between all those who oppose the Tories - the sniping and untruths about each other should stop. There is no need to agree on everything but we can behave like adults when we don't. The time to do this is now, in opposition - and the Government does not have a great majority.
Thankyou for articulating this. It was something I had been feeling this morning. I want to embrace those on the left, the Greens, the social democrats in Scotland, the remaining left-liberals etc as fellow-travellers. I don't want another period of scrapping over relatively minor differences. I know the Greens are here to stay and that's a good thing for our planet.
One of the things it wa so hard to adjust to during the last parliament was that Labour was being attacked from all sides. From the Tories for economic incompetence, with the LibDems joining in, and from the left for a lack of ideological purity. The media allowed the coalition partners to tag-team Labour for a couple of years, and then towards the end the other leftwing parties joined in from the other side. Labour didn't do enough to bring them round, though it would be nice if they could meet us halfway.
Those of us who aren't Tories (or Ukip) need to find our common ground and meet there.
Yes.
Think of how important it is to Tories to prevent that common ground from forming.
I beg forgiveness because I'm still very angry, and negative, but while I'm negative I tend to take the very worst that's happened and might happen.
I throw the blinkers away and root out all the little niggles and doubts I've pushed to one side or ignored.
Once that's sorted I make a mental list of what's left and build on that. I've always found there's less disappointment further down the road with that approach. And of course it's my viewpoint so you may not agree.
At the moment I have Ed. He was the catalyst of the fightback. It wouldn't have gone as far as it did without him. A genuinly decent man. Clever and sharp brained who knew what was needed. Who impressed us over Leveson etc.
Polite, kind. but if I'm honest with myself, not a scrapper. As per those three bloody women at the debate. He should have stomped all over them, but didn't - not really.
So perhaps someone who's a bit tougher? Not so well mannered? But most of the time I hate toughness and I like good manners.
Appealing to our better nature? That's a waste of time for a big chunk of the population.
Trying to be all things to all men. Another waste of time
Being gender specific? A lot of the male population won't be so keen on that despite what they say, and I don't particularly like women politicians
Further to the left? Nope. This election proved that. It'll just bleed votes from the Labour right.
Labour voters turning to UKIP? Hard to fight this attitude of mind. Hard to see how much more to the left Labour could go. Ed made plenty of concessions for housing and stricter imigration rules, although I don't think he stressed them enough So discard them?
Fight UKIP through the ballot box?
Further to the right? It'll lose a lot of the left's vote, but not as many as the above.
Did we get the full picture? No. I don't think we did.
Blanket coverage of hard hitting information to every household would definitely have helped here in Bracknell. Thanks to biased media too few horrific facts of life if the Cons got in, were getting through to the public. There was plenty to choose from.
And that's as far as I've got. I've just welled up. Mr Ohso has just been watching a programme about the sinking of the Tirpitz.
At the end an old boy [he died in 2013] said, 'We couldn't have the Nazi's in charge could we.'
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
SpinningHugo wrote:The single most significant criterion for leader we should use is
"Who do the Tories not want us to elect?"
and if that points at a 'Blairite', suck it up.
When I read that I could feel the physical and mental conflict hitting me.
I want to say no to it, but something tells me it is right.
We are going to tear ourselves apart again over this. The party I mean.
The Tories will make hay in the meantime.
Something tells me that it's very wrong. A middle way between Labour and the Conservatives is not what I want. I could go, maybe, with a middle-way between Ed Miliband's way and the "Blairite" (shorthand) way but that's probably as far as I could go without feeling very uneasy. To go the "Blairite" way merely leaves things on the shelf for the Conservatives to come back and steal later. We've seen it happen already.
Excuse me for sounding cynical but I'm just not sure society is spiritually/morally evolved enough to appreciate Ed's core values, the personal ones I mean.
I love him for the way he avoided playing rough.
I know he could have played rough if he wanted to, but chose not to because of his values.
As OhSo has mentioned when the three anti-austerity fakers, sorry leaders, rounded on him he didn't do what a lot of people would have done.
But the media and the Tories portray that inherent goodness as a weakness.
Last edited by yahyah on Sat 09 May, 2015 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
citizenJA wrote:Only 66% of the entire UK electorate voted?
We managed just over 67% in Putney and in Battersea, with just under 70% in Tooting (Sadiq Khan's constituency.) All our candidates increased the Labour vote in this Borough. Whilst I was watching the results coming in, on telly, I did notice more than a few constituencies where turnout was in the mid-fifties, mind.
Those low turnout ones will have helped to bring the average down, nationally. I'm sure people will be looking at where turnout fell to see why – especially in light of the cock-ups with voter-registration meaning people weren't on the register although they'd tried to make sure they were. And with the reported batches of postal votes not being sent out. In the latter even, you're supposed to present yourself at a polling-station but how many people understand that – if they're even in the country. Plus, where a polling-station has been moved how many will be bothered (or able) to travel to the one they should have been at? Then, some people think they're in such a safe seat that their vote couldn't make a difference. All these things have an effect.
This time, I'm gonna be stronger I'm not giving in...
It's interesting reading your comments on new Labour leadership. Looking slightly from the outside I saw Ed as something fresh, sincere, honest and not without some political nouse. What the fuck his appearance or how, a Jew no less, tackled a bacon sarnie is of no significance whatsoever. The fact that he could chat up or pull a lady only added to his appeal. People who buy into or consume shitty rags that peddle such filth deserve all that they receive, but most folk simply don't.
As I say I am not equipped with the knowledge that some of you have but personally I like Andy Burnham, someone who like Ed, has remained composed in the face of undeserved criticism from ignorant or lying quarters. Having said that I felt he had a role to rescue the NHS, but sadly not now that he remains in opposition. So there's my nomination for what it's worth.
Regarding engagement, for starters I shall renew my attendance of public meetings with the council and the police. If nothing else I am not afraid to speak or make recommendations of things (I know absolutely nothing of, or at least have never directly experienced) when hearing of others' issues, whether they be innocent bystanders or victims or whether they are in a position of power. There is no doubting that I can make a fool of myself, but whenever I do I only answer or demonstrate something another may have had in mind. Who knows? Much to the chagrin of my late wife, who would gently tug my arm to keep me seated as I rose from my chair, I am far too vain not to speak up. 'And therein lies my power. I could never make a politician though, either by temperament or for the skeletons I have in my cupboard or the tactless nature of my comments when I forget all thought of diplomacy.
I receive many of the Labour Party emails that some of you do, possibly as a response to my engaging with them. I used to receive them from Number Ten too after emailing David regarding landlords acting as immigration officers. No longer these days, perhaps it's time I gave him another piece of my mind. Anyway, I am not about to join the Labour Party but just thought I'd throw in my twopennyworth.
As for a more unified party of the left, then yes I believe it is time and in Ed I had hoped he could spearhead such an advance. Labour as a whole? Mmm I'm not so sure of their outlook on nukes or civil liberties. I hear criticism over the 'hard-working family' rhetoric, which Labour have adopted from their opposite number but to be fair are repeatedly portrayed as supporting the feckless or irresponsible, so use it as a defence. Venal Tories are far too keen to grasp and are also prone to projection. Sure there are some who take advantage of any benefit going, but they are such a tiny few that they can barely be counted. Nevertheless wherever they are found it is incumbent on society to guide, even punish where appropriate, but on the whole people needing support is all they ask. They're not seeking freebies or want to take advantage of others. Besides when provided such support they, like anyone else, have much to offer. Please give them the chance.
Remaining LibDems? Sorry chaps your days are past. I should make some time to see which of you remain, but without leaving the party you are tainted by association, besides some of you are Orange Bookers, which in my view is a step too far.
Greens? Well no, I love you and indeed have similar feelings, but cannot agree on the practicalities. I shall hug a tree but please don't ask me to fall in love. That remains for animals, my family and whomsoever shall turn my head.
Nationalists? Obviously not, albeit some measure of devolution is necessary I feel that much of the tax raising revenue should be centrally controlled. The danger being, as is now the case, that the power of control can breed an unhealthy acquisitiveness; something that is demonstrated time and again in government and the corporate world. Administration of such is much better handled by committee or, as I view it, a PR parliament. Tories however, will not allow the likes and shall gerrymander all they can to secure their grip. Hence the need for a unified left.
Dave has very narrowly bought himself some time. However bigged up his strategy, the Tories have been extremely lucky. Not necessarily because of, but nevertheless largely helped by our unscrupulous press, largely owned by the self-interested or megalomaniac. However Dave's usefulness is spent and his grasp is weak. Like Miliband and Clegg, he shall soon be replaced. Personally I believe that Boris is the most dangerous. Whatever his foibles and whatever our personal view Boris, can be entertaining and has earned a measure of celebrity that spans both the generational divide and class. Within our TV and a multimedia dominated world we must accept the power of celebrity. This has always been the case across the ages, it's just the nature of the medium of communication that has changed.
So not only a unified left is required, but one with a popular and populist figurehead and possibly a thoroughly new party. One that does not pander to money-men and corporates or overtly to trade unions but one that politely respects the individual. Damned right we are not all equal but that is no reason to turn our back on an egalitarian society. Who is going to pass judgement anyway on the validity of an individual? There are some who would have discounted Professor Stephen Hawkin, for example. I would put myself forward if, for a single moment, thought myself able or strong enough. (Stop sniggering at the back). Whosoever it could be? Fuck knows, but that's wishful thinking for you.
Of course not only would such an individual have to appeal to a multi-generational populous, but also secular yet respectful of religion too. One may wholeheartedly disagree, but why without respect? Taxes? Frankly they should go up for the wealthy and high earners; we cannot rely on philanthropy. It ain't that I'm jealous and say good luck to you should you do well by moral means. But my morals aren't necessarily yours, which brings me back to proportional representation.
RobertSnozers wrote:
Thankyou for articulating this. It was something I had been feeling this morning. I want to embrace those on the left, the Greens, the social democrats in Scotland, the remaining left-liberals etc as fellow-travellers. I don't want another period of scrapping over relatively minor differences. I know the Greens are here to stay and that's a good thing for our planet.
One of the things it wa so hard to adjust to during the last parliament was that Labour was being attacked from all sides. From the Tories for economic incompetence, with the LibDems joining in, and from the left for a lack of ideological purity. The media allowed the coalition partners to tag-team Labour for a couple of years, and then towards the end the other leftwing parties joined in from the other side. Labour didn't do enough to bring them round, though it would be nice if they could meet us halfway.
Those of us who aren't Tories (or Ukip) need to find our common ground and meet there.
Yes.
Think of how important it is to Tories to prevent that common ground from forming.
I beg forgiveness because I'm still very angry, and negative, but while I'm negative I tend to take the very worst that's happened and might happen.
I throw the blinkers away and root out all the little niggles and doubts I've pushed to one side or ignored.
Once that's sorted I make a mental list of what's left and build on that. I've always found there's less disappointment further down the road with that approach. And of course it's my viewpoint so you may not agree.
At the moment I have Ed. He was the catalyst of the fightback. It wouldn't have gone as far as it did without him. A genuinly decent man. Clever and sharp brained who knew what was needed. Who impressed us over Leveson etc.
Polite, kind. but if I'm honest with myself, not a scrapper. As per those three bloody women at the debate. He should have stomped all over them, but didn't - not really.
So perhaps someone who's a bit tougher? Not so well mannered? But most of the time I hate toughness and I like good manners.
Appealing to our better nature? That's a waste of time for a big chunk of the population.
Trying to be all things to all men. Another waste of time
Being gender specific? A lot of the male population won't be so keen on that despite what they say, and I don't particularly like women politicians
Further to the left? Nope. This election proved that. It'll just bleed votes from the Labour right.
Labour voters turning to UKIP? Hard to fight this attitude of mind. Hard to see how much more to the left Labour could go. Ed made plenty of concessions for housing and stricter imigration rules, although I don't think he stressed them enough So discard them?
Fight UKIP through the ballot box?
Further to the right? It'll lose a lot of the left's vote, but not as many as the above.
Did we get the full picture? No. I don't think we did.
Blanket coverage of hard hitting information to every household would definitely have helped here in Bracknell. Thanks to biased media too few horrific facts of life if the Cons got in, were getting through to the public. There was plenty to choose from.
And that's as far as I've got. I've just welled up. Mr Ohso has just been watching a programme about the sinking of the Tirpitz.
At the end an old boy [he died in 2013] said, 'We couldn't have the Nazi's in charge could we.'
They wouldn't have sat around too long arguing about what sort of bomber attack/munitions to use.
SpinningHugo wrote:The single most significant criterion for leader we should use is
"Who do the Tories not want us to elect?"
and if that points at a 'Blairite', suck it up.
Out of interest Hugo who do you think that would be?
Well, this much I think will get uniform agreement. I would prefer someone untainted by the recent past. I would also prefer a woman, not least because Cameron is poor at dealing with women (a common trait of public schoolboys).
In the best of all possible worlds, I would like.
AJ to stand, explicitly saying he was doing so on an interim basis and would stand down after two years.
That isn't going to happen. So, I would like Stella Creasy. The choice not to promote her looks like a deliberate snub, someone protecting their own position.
But, her personal circumstances may make that impossible.
So, failing that, I would go for Umunna. I suspect I am the only one on this board who would choose him, but he is the one the Tories don't want.
Failing him, Liz Kendall.
Last time we elected the leader the Tories wanted. We must not do that again.
How to fight back? Get the gloves off. The other parties can take a running jump. They did Labour no favours at all. Have no truck with them. They did us damage and it was intentional.
They say all's fair in love and politics so pinch all their good ideas and tart them up even more.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
