Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

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rebeccariots2
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Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Morning all.

I am off to work soon but have woken feeling zombie-like - delayed effect. And for some reason I have the strange, curling and faint melody of a song / track by Tonto's Expanding Headband going round in my head. If my memory serves me right the album was called Zero Time and I always thought it was music of the aftermath of third world war three ... seems horribly apt.
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yahyah
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

Morning

I know what you mean Rebecca.
& it seems odd not to have Radio 4 on in the background and obsessing about what's been/not been said. But quiet is good.

Hope you've all had some good rest and sleep.

If anyone's interested, Rhodri Morgan, a seasoned campaigner and ex Welsh First Minister offers his
thoughts on what happened.

As I always remind people ad infinitum, Rhodri retired from office still showing very high approval ratings, the sort not seen at Westminster.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/news- ... 92-9220033
Last edited by yahyah on Sat 09 May, 2015 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
utopiandreams
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

Good Morning

I'm sitting here after my usual four hours in bed in a rather strange and empty place. I'm stunned and can hardly believe it. Last night for example I mentioned that piece of detritus, little Liam Fox. Hard to believe, I know, but people still vote for him. But it's not just the disappointment of yesterday but my youngest has fallen out with me too.

Commiserations btw for those troubled by the pesky black dog that will not desist from pushing its cold wet nose directly into your face and smothering you with its foul spittle and stench. I'm lucky having recently escaped and have previously stated that everything changes but nothing does at all. Which is largely true, but having found that stick to throw and turn its attention elsewhere, I trust that I shall evade its sensitive nose long enough to adequately protect myself from further threat.

Enough, this is not where I intend to go. I neither want this turning into a book nor indeed another chapter of my inconsequential life. Without wishing to add to your undoubted sadness I still feel a need to share some of my thoughts, something that may highlight a generational divide or at least the world our youth inhabit today. Much shall remain unsaid, indeed it already has, otherwise I'll have said nothing at all.

'And now I shall speak of dogs. Black or white, its colour is not the issue. Indeed my Sheba was a black Doberman cross, not some beast that forced herself upon me but one that delighted in my presence... and I had Holly too, an Alsatian cross, both rescue dogs. Although they have passed like my departed wife they are still with me much of the time that I sleep, they are only gone in the light of day. 'And no, I am not grieving. Anyway for quite some time now, knowing how much I love them, he has cajoled and badgered me to have a dog and toyed with the idea of breeding them.

Last night he wanted a favour of me. He had already asked me to run him around later this morning but there was something else he wanted to discuss after we'd dropped off his mate; often the case, one or two and not the same ones each day. Rather than come out with it, he prevaricated and prevaricated; I told him to spit it out. 'And so it began, one of his workmate's daughters has a pregnant dog... and I love dogs.

Yes I do but at my age I am not about to take on another; of course not it would be his. In practice however I know better, besides he has to work. But this is not just any old dog and pet but is going to supplement his income. Don't I realise how much money there is to be made? Well yes I do actually, one of my mates, sadly passed away now, used to breed Rotties. Rotties? Well they're only two a penny (not exactly his words) and he's talking of twenty grand per year. I didn't ask the breed.

"Twenty grand?"
"Yeah, top line" by which he meant should he have large and frequent enough litters and get full whack.
"What about the costs?"
"Well you like dogs anyway."
"Feed, accommodation, veterinary bills, kennel club registration, etc., etc. What about the costs?"
"But twenty grand!"
"And every working man that I've known breed animals had a wife at home. I am not your wife!"
"I'll pay you."
"More costs."
"Twenty grand."
"It is not a get rich quick scheme, son. Besides if it did so well, why would he be working doing the job you do?"
"He doesn't, it's his daughter."
"Dont be naive, son. How much are they charging? That's one more sale while they chase full whack."
"I know it's not a get rich quick scheme but I'll never do better than rent a one bed flat. You don't understamd how hard I work for a couple of hundred pounds."
"Yes I do. You should have gained more qualifications, you know how hard I tried to push you."
"One of my workmates has a Maths degree and he still does the same as me..."

A bit more than I was expecting, especially as it's vastly cut down. The underlying issue is that yes, it does concern me and I do understand. As I put the key in the door of my rented flat I turned to him and said, "Besides I could get a months notice and then where would we be with dogs in tow?"

I expect he rather wished he had asked me later as some of our running about shall be to put a smile on my face. Happy days!

Edit: corrected Alsatian. Typo or spelling mistake I cannot say.
Last edited by utopiandreams on Sat 09 May, 2015 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

yahyah wrote:Morning

I know what you mean Rebecca.
& it seems odd not to have Radio 4 on in the background and obsessing about what's been/not been said. But quiet is good.

Hope you've all had some good rest and sleep.

If anyone's interested, Rhodri Morgan, a seasoned campaigner and ex Welsh First Minister offers his
thoughts on what happened.

As I always remind people ad infinitum, Rhodri retired from office still showing very high approval ratings, the sort not seen at Westminster.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/news- ... 92-9220033
He makes a lot of good points. I can't see the Tories giving an inch over PR now though - so there is an even bigger challenge about getting the vote out. Now the Tories have said they will bring in their boundary changes asap - based on the latest voter registration figures / demographics - which are predicted to give them an additional built in 10 seat advantage - FPTP is here to stay. Along with the fixed term parliament act which allows them to plan their deeds according to a known next election date ... it's going to be very very very hard to achieve better results through that system.

There has to be a real alliance of the left now - looking at what can be done together to counteract some of this.

Oh and - the SNP now have so many seats but that won't help much with anything constitutional relating to England and Wales will it? It would be seen as the height of hypocrisy if they emerged to vote / lobby on such matters that don't apply in Scotland. Another bit of shafting by the numbers.
Last edited by rebeccariots2 on Sat 09 May, 2015 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Swarthlander
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Swarthlander »

Good morning. :D
Chins up, try to stay positive, onwards and upwards.... oh bollocks!

I read in yesterday's posts that Ed Miliband should stand for leader again. IMHO that won't happen and it just wouldn't work. He had a good try but unfortunately he failed.
To be real and honest, in politics he would be seen as a loser and conected to failure by all but his supporters.

I'm going to take a special interest in the leadership election, purely for my own sanity, and maybe a candidate could be found who has some connection to the 'real world' someone with experiences and understanding similar to those folk they want to vote Labour.

What has to be investigated is why many a usual Labour voter turned right/far-right. I think ohso hit on some reasons last night. So many people voting for basically a fascist party is worrying.

I think Scotland will break away from the UK. The excuse being a Tory Westminster. It will not bode well for them but if that's what they want then fair enough. My love of Scotland has diminished recently, I don't think I will be visiting up there again for a while, if ever again.


Ah well, life goes on. Once the euphoria dies down maybe the electorate will realise the result was not in their best interest.
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Bless you utopian dreams. May your weekend be a good one. We all need a bit of support and care right now.
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Tonibel
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Tonibel »

Thank you Yahyah.
With the exception of Alun Michael I think we've been very lucky here with our First Ministers. Perhaps if Scottish Labour had done as well we would not have SNP rampant.
StephenDolan
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by StephenDolan »

Morning all.

As has been mentioned by others, it seems strange no longer constantly poring over political news. I think it's going to have to be a quiet family weekend for me, let things mentally settle otherwise depression will envelope me.

Thanks to one and all for being there to talk all things politics in a friendly atmosphere.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

rebeccariots2 wrote:I can't see the Tories giving an inch over PR now though - so there is an even bigger challenge about getting the vote out. Now the Tories have said they will bring in their boundary changes asap - based on the latest voter registration figures / demographics - which are predicted to give them an additional built in 10 seat advantage - FPTP is here to stay. Along with the fixed term parliament act which allows them to plan their deeds according to a known next election date ... it's going to be very very very hard to achieve better results through that system.
Yes, they will gerrymander the system, most governments try to do that. But we (eventually) got Thatcher/Major out, simply because people were fed up with the constant diet of shit they were being fed; sad to say, maybe we need a year or so of utter unfettered bastardry just to remind people what it is really like. Just wish we weren't going to have to pay such a high price in ruined lives to achieve it. :(
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utopiandreams
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

RobertSnozers wrote:... In amongst the excitement yesterday I managed to miss Rusty's little intervention. What a pleasant fellow he is. I found myself wondering whether I would have allowed myself to gloat over right wingers in that sort of way in the event of a Labour victory. It probably would have been easy - I don't know any right wingers that I actually like. I know a couple through my writing but they turned out to have a deeply unpleasant streak. However, I don't think I would have gone to the trouble of registering on a right wing discussion site for the express purposes of rubbing their noses in it...
Funnily enough, Robert, I posted a comment on the G yesterday about gloating leaving an unpleasant taste in one's mouth. I shan't repeat the response I had, but having been called a Plastic Marxist, ventured to their profile page for a peek. I responded by telling him (presumably him by the nature of his ill-advised joke - not saying that I can't go there sometimes) that he had absolutely no taste whatsoever. Not that I reported him but his post soon disappeared. I wasn't interested enough to see what others may have been.

Rusty sure is a piece of work! Sorry Rusty should you read this. You do not upset me, I almost feel sorry for you.
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yahyah
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

Happy Birthday to HowSillyOfMe.

Plenty of cake to go round, a bit of icing and lots of candles always lifts the spirits.
yahyah
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

Just read last night's posts:

Welcome and big hugs to Paddington Bear & Tony2602.
Thank you so much for your posts and sharing your thoughts and feelings.
Your posts moved me.

& OhSo - I was knocked out by your writing. Keep on with it and please keep sharing it.

We have so much going for us as individuals, as a group here on FTN, and in the wider world, something people like Rusty will never even be able to comprehend.
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Swarthlander
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Swarthlander »

It could have been worse - we could have been Liberals. :P
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.

Happy birthday howsillyofme1!

I note that it's National Scratch a Pony's Bottom Day, too. That seems to come round so quickly.
yahyah
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

Have seen a tweet saying Alan Johnson rules out Labour leadership bid.
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Swarthlander
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Swarthlander »

Oops, manners! :oops:

Happy birthday howsillyofme1! :D


Is there any chance of the 'thanks' button coming back?
There were so many posts yesterday that required a 'Hear! Hear! Especially the ones telling Rustyshite to Fuck the Fuck Off.

To all of you Thanks!
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Willow904 »

Finding it hard to be positive this morning.

Murdoch won.

Ignorance won.

I blame Nick Clegg. He simultaneously knocked the edges off a Conservative government, shielding people from the worst excesses of the Tory vermin so they didn't get angry enough to want to kick them out, whilst betraying his supporters to the point the Libdem vote completely collapsed and ceded all the ground painstakingly gained from the Tories over decades.

Labour didn't do well enough. The post 2010 schism, instead of happening and healing, festered and held Labour back from going in any direction, hence the minimal move in vote share. I thought it was a good thing Ed kept the party together and it did keep Labour in touching distance this time keeping hope alive but now it feels more like we've been treading water. A Blairite wouldn't have done any better, they would have had to make the same compromises to keep the party together or risk losing those to the left with nowhere to go to gain votes to replace them. Labour was completely squeezed and hemmed in from both left and right whilst attacked from the rear by the nationlists whilst smothered by a press that wouldn't allow them any room to manouvere.

This Tory government will be evil. People already know they are on the wrong side of the ethical divide as once again they were too ashamed to admit they were going to vote for them. With something to fight against and Ed's sound base of honesty and integrity and the correctly identified problems of inequality and imbalance of power between rich and poor to build on, the Labour movement will grow again and there are already signs. An area of Bath which would have been hard hit by coalition cuts has just voted a Labour county councillor for the first time in a long while. I guess it has to get better because how could it get any worse?
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Swarthlander
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Swarthlander »

yahyah wrote:Have seen a tweet saying Alan Johnson rules out Labour leadership bid.
Thank the gods.

The past has to be ditched. We need completely new blood.
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PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

Swarthlander wrote:Oops, manners! :oops:

Happy birthday howsillyofme1! :D


Is there any chance of the 'thanks' button coming back?
There were so many posts yesterday that required a 'Hear! Hear! Especially the ones telling Rustyshite to Fuck the Fuck Off.

To all of you Thanks!

Hear, hear!

And, for the record, I'm not feeling any better today. Worse, if anything. Sorry to cast a pall on proceedings. We live in a society in which things, including values, are disposable. Instead of plugging on we throw things out and get new stuff. Including, it seems, principles. The Labour Party should be better than a Groucho Marx one-liner.

Edited "h" for "H"

(Some things will never change.)
Last edited by PorFavor on Sat 09 May, 2015 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
yahyah
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

It's giving me a new headache tbh.

In this media age do we go more by head than heart ?

Jarvis comes across well from what I've seen, and if we are leaching votes in the North someone who won't get written off by people who've shifted to UKIP must be an advantage.

But Jarvis would wind up the green leaners, because of his military background.
Don't know where he stands within Labour either...if anyone does would you mind sharing your views please ?

Would like a strong woman other than Cooper to consider, but she has too much baggage.

We don't have the luxury of the small parties, we need a leader who people of all types/ages/social groups will listen to.
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

Swarthlander wrote:It could have been worse - we could have been Liberals. :P
Apparently 2000 people joined the LDs yesterday. SDs seeing a chance to seize back the party from the Orange Bookers?


Happy birthday howsillyofme1!
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Swarthlander
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Swarthlander »

And the media are already muck-stirring. :evil:

"Go back to Blairite values" and "Will David Milliband aim for Leadership?"
If those are the answers then the question is total shite. :roll:
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PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

yahyah wrote:It's giving me a new headache tbh.

In this media age do we go more by head than heart ?

Jarvis comes across well from what I've seen, and if we are leaching votes in the North someone who won't get written off by people who've shifted to UKIP must be an advantage.

But Jarvis would wind up the green leaners, because of his military background.
Don't know where he stands within Labour either...if anyone does would you mind sharing your views please ?

Would like a strong woman other than Cooper to consider, but she has too much baggage.

We don't have the luxury of the small parties, we need a leader who people of all types/ages/social groups will listen to.
I can only think of the Angela Eagle at the moment. I could conceivably rally behind her.
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Swarthlander
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Swarthlander »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Apparently 2000 people joined the LDs yesterday.
Clegg did something right yesterday?
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Willow904 »

yahyah wrote:It's giving me a new headache tbh.

In this media age do we go more by head than heart ?

Jarvis comes across well from what I've seen, and if we are leaching votes in the North someone who won't get written off by people who've shifted to UKIP must be an advantage.

But Jarvis would wind up the green leaners, because of his military background.
Don't know where he stands within Labour either...if anyone does would you mind sharing your views please ?

Would like a strong woman other than Cooper to consider, but she has too much baggage.

We don't have the luxury of the small parties, we need a leader who people of all types/ages/social groups will listen to.
I know next to nothing of Dan Jarvis but my instinct is that if Labour are looking for 'something completely different' he would probably fit the bill. He would be very hard for the MSM to attack, being one of 'our boys', which would be extremely useful for Labour as the unremitting media onslaught on Ed was a big factor in his failure to win.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Willow904 »

Swarthlander wrote:And the media are already muck-stirring. :evil:

"Go back to Blairite values" and "Will David Milliband aim for Leadership?"
If those are the answers then the question is total shite. :roll:
I'm fed up of people telling Labour what to do. Blairite values are Tory values and we've already got more than enough Tories, thank you.
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

Willow904 wrote:... I blame Nick Clegg. He simultaneously knocked the edges off a Conservative government, shielding people from the worst excesses of the Tory vermin so they didn't get angry enough to want to kick them out, whilst betraying his supporters to the point the Libdem vote completely collapsed and ceded all the ground painstakingly gained from the Tories over decades...
Blame, yes, Willow, but as angry as I am with him I do not think him an inherently evil guy. Misguided and naive, I think he believes he did the right thing. I disagree and indeed wrote to him to advise him as much and shall not forgive him. But then I still have some tribal loyalties in play, albeit no longer a LibDem.

But yes I entirely agree with you. As tough as things have been under the coalition, he enabled them, but a majority Tory government would have been worse. But that is what we have now. I've still not resolved what we may do to to avert the ensuing storm, but as others have said we have a duty to perform.
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

utopiandreams wrote:Good Morning

I'm sitting here after my usual four hours in bed in a rather strange and empty place. I'm stunned and can hardly believe it. Last night for example I mentioned that piece of detritus, little Liam Fox. Hard to believe, I know, but people still vote for him. But it's not just the disappointment of yesterday but my youngest has fallen out with me too.

Commiserations btw for those troubled by the pesky black dog that will not desist from pushing its cold wet nose directly into your face and smothering you with its foul spittle and stench. I'm lucky having recently escaped and have previously stated that everything changes but nothing does at all. Which is largely true, but having found that stick to throw and turn its attention elsewhere, I trust that I shall evade its sensitive nose long enough to adequately protect myself from further threat.

Enough, this is not where I intend to go. I neither want this turning into a book nor indeed another chapter of my inconsequential life. Without wishing to add to your undoubted sadness I still feel a need to share some of my thoughts, something that may highlight a generational divide or at least the world our youth inhabit today. Much shall remain unsaid, indeed it already has, otherwise I'll have said nothing at all.

'And now I shall speak of dogs. Black or white, its colour is not the issue. Indeed my Sheba was a black Doberman cross, not some beast that forced herself upon me but one that delighted in my presence... and I had Holly too, an Alsatian cross, both rescue dogs. Although they have passed like my departed wife they are still with me much of the time that I sleep, they are only gone in the light of day. 'And no, I am not grieving. Anyway for quite some time now, knowing how much I love them, he has cajoled and badgered me to have a dog and toyed with the idea of breeding them.

Last night he wanted a favour of me. He had already asked me to run him around later this morning but there was something else he wanted to discuss after we'd dropped off his mate; often the case, one or two and not the same ones each day. Rather than come out with it, he prevaricated and prevaricated; I told him to spit it out. 'And so it began, one of his workmate's daughters has a pregnant dog... and I love dogs.

Yes I do but at my age I am not about to take on another; of course not it would be his. In practice however I know better, besides he has to work. But this is not just any old dog and pet but is going to supplement his income. Don't I realise how much money there is to be made? Well yes I do actually, one of my mates, sadly passed away now, used to breed Rotties. Rotties? Well they're only two a penny (not exactly his words) and he's talking of twenty grand per year. I didn't ask the breed.

"Twenty grand?"
"Yeah, top line" by which he meant should he have large and frequent enough litters and get full whack.
"What about the costs?"
"Well you like dogs anyway."
"Feed, accommodation, veterinary bills, kennel club registration, etc., etc. What about the costs?"
"But twenty grand!"
"And every working man that I've known breed animals had a wife at home. I am not your wife!"
"I'll pay you."
"More costs."
"Twenty grand."
"It is not a get rich quick scheme, son. Besides if it did so well, why would he be working doing the job you do?"
"He doesn't, it's his daughter."
"Dont be naive, son. How much are they charging? That's one more sale while they chase full whack."
"I know it's not a get rich quick scheme but I'll never do better than rent a one bed flat. You don't understamd how hard I work for a couple of hundred pounds."
"Yes I do. You should have gained more qualifications, you know how hard I tried to push you."
"One of my workmates has a Maths degree and he still does the same as me..."

A bit more than I was expecting, especially as it's vastly cut down. The underlying issue is that yes, it does concern me and I do understand. As I put the key in the door of my rented flat I turned to him and said, "Besides I could get a months notice and then where would we be with dogs in tow?"

I expect he rather wished he had asked me later as some of our running about shall be to put a smile on my face. Happy days!

Edit: corrected Alsatian. Typo or spelling mistake I cannot say.
One of Mr Ohso's friends wife, breeds afghan hounds. She had the bright idea a couple of years ago. Had a decent female.
She works he's retired
She had to pay for stud.
She had to pay for shelter and a pen for the puppies when they were born.
She had to pay the vet because the last puppy got stuck when it was being born. And it was out of hours so double the fee.
They ended up with eleven puppies.
They tore the house to shreds, literally.
Stank the place out
When they were big enough to run outside they wrecked the garden pond, ate and dug up all the plants.
They needed worming and vaccinating because if they're pedigree and you're asking a lot of money you have to make sure they're well looked after.
She sold nine.
But when she checked how they were doing [you can do that if you care enough] two of them weren't being looked after properly so she took them back and repaid the fee.
She ended up with four pups she couldn't sell and ended up keeping them.

They caused such havoc they weren't going to do it again, but now his wife has changed her mind.
He's dead against it because he has to look after them during the day. They have 3 bitches and a dog he has to keep the dog apart when the bitches are in season.
They still chew and they've had to replace carpets, repair the garden pond again, and have had to pave the garden completely.
I think they ended up a couple of hundred pounds to the good. But that was all.
They are in a house...
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Eric_WLothian
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Eric_WLothian »

rebeccariots2 wrote: Oh and - the SNP now have so many seats but that won't help much with anything constitutional relating to England and Wales will it? It would be seen as the height of hypocrisy if they emerged to vote / lobby on such matters that don't apply in Scotland. Another bit of shafting by the numbers.
I think the SNP landslide is a massive own-goal. Cameron, iirc, promised FFA in double-quick time. The inevitable result will be the removal of Barnett - which will have the added advantage (to the Tories) of reducing the cuts they will "need" to make in England. The SNP MPs (less than 10% of Parliament) will, of course, have no say.
Scotland is now, imo, heading for higher taxes and less public services than the rest of the UK (although I don't know what the situation in Wales is).
Part of me thinks this may be a good thing by killing the independence issue (and possibly the SNP) for the foreseeable future. The other part thinks it a high price to pay, as jobs move to the lowest taxed areas - ie south.
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

RobertSnozers wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Apparently 2000 people joined the LDs yesterday.
Clegg did something right yesterday?
I dare say it's one of the same reasons I'm going to rejoin Labour - to have an influence first in the election of a new leader and help set the direction of travel
Please do.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Mourning all. And yes, that was deliberate...

I can see D.Miliband being touted as the next leader - if the general impression was that E.Miliband was one of the 'metropolitan liberal elite' (whatever the hell that is and besides it now seems to be another name for a liberal Tory) why on earth would Labour choose one who had an identical upbringing?

No, Labour need someone who hasn't just taken the univ > party researcher > SpAd > MP route and yes, although I hate the phrase, someone who has had a 'real job' i.e. outside politics.

Jarvis might be the one - bit of an unknown quantity right now.
Cooper? Too close to Balls and she'll be reminded of that constantly.
Burnham? Although he'd be OK, he has (unfairly) got Mid Staffs hanging over him.
Liz Kendall? Possibility. Apparently a Blairite but has a solid intellectual background
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PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

@RogerOThornhill

Ha! Mourning here, too. And it's reigning. It's the acid type of reign.


Edit

I mis-typed your name. Many apologies.
Last edited by PorFavor on Sat 09 May, 2015 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by Willow904 »

RobertSnozers wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Apparently 2000 people joined the LDs yesterday.
Clegg did something right yesterday?
I dare say it's one of the same reasons I'm going to rejoin Labour - to have an influence first in the election of a new leader and help set the direction of travel
I just signed up as a Labour member myself. I'd never got round to it before, although meaning to, but those Libdems have inspired me. We can't let the Tories sit and gloat. We have more Labour bods on our county council now than we did on Wednesday. Labour are down, but they're most certainly not out. The Tory win was not particularly convincing by historic standards. They are vulnerable on issues of equality and fairness and that's where Labour have to keep kicking them. Labour made a breakthrough with their pledge to abolish non-dom status, as it encapsulates the argument that we have to have the same rules for everyone, not one rule for the rich and another for the rest. I think they can build on that.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
utopiandreams
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

@ohsocynical

Thanks, ohso, he's still feeling a little upset and I'd advised him that whatever else we do not live in the home that ironically would have been fully paid by now. Anyway I'd just read him my post to which he remarked it was my attitude as much as anything else that upset him last night. I explained he had to make allowances for how angry I felt after the election results. Anyway, thanks again I have read him your post and think we we can both smile now.

Edit: ... and think we we can both smile now. I insisted on it.
Last edited by utopiandreams on Sat 09 May, 2015 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by AngryAsWell »

I think the first thing Labour should to is hold an inquest into the election to find out why those marginal and targets did not hold up, when safe seats increased the vote % in line with the polls. What happened to all those voters who both said they would vote Labour, and then said they had voted Labour, but it seems they didn't. Why? We need to go back and ask - nicely - what did we do wrong that made you change your mind at the last moment.
Why were there unprecedented long queues to vote but the turnout was only 66% (if that turnout number is right that is) do we need longer voting times, maybe over a weekend ?
Only when we know why people - in vast numbers - appear to have lied can we work out what happened and which direction to go with a new leader.
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

Whilst I am very happy that people are joining up to the Labour Party, I would hate it to be construed by some as an indication that people are joining up now " because they didn't like Ed Miliband but now he's no longer leader, membership has increased". (That's just an observation - not a plea not to join!)



Edited

Punctuation and stuff
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by AngryAsWell »

PorFavor wrote:Whilst I am very happy that people are joining up to the Labour Party, I would hate it to be construed by some as an indication that people are joining up now " because they didn't like Ed Miliband but now he's no longer leader, membership has increased". (That's just an observation - not a plea not to join!)



Edited

Punctuation and stuff
Take your point, but membership increased to over 200,000 under Ed
PorFavor
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

AngryAsWell wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Whilst I am very happy that people are joining up to the Labour Party, I would hate it to be construed by some as an indication that people are joining up now " because they didn't like Ed Miliband but now he's no longer leader, membership has increased". (That's just an observation - not a plea not to join!)



Edited

Punctuation and stuff
Take your point, but membership increased to over 200,000 under Ed
Yes, I know. I'm just feeling a bit raw still.
gilsey
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by gilsey »

Swarthlander wrote:It could have been worse - we could have been Liberals. :P
Funny you should say that.

I go on another forum where we don't discuss politics, I logged in last night to see if they'd managed not to discuss it, which they hadn't, quite. Two notable sentiments expressed - despair about UKIP, ok, and sympathy for Nick. :shock:
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by gilsey »

Willow904 wrote: I blame Nick Clegg. He simultaneously knocked the edges off a Conservative government, shielding people from the worst excesses of the Tory vermin so they didn't get angry enough to want to kick them out, whilst betraying his supporters to the point the Libdem vote completely collapsed and ceded all the ground painstakingly gained from the Tories over decades.
Exceptionally well put, thank you.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

I'm not going to link to it but I notice that nasty piece of shit Jason Cowley has stuck the knife into Miliband in guess where...The daily Mail.

Someone should tell him that, for someone who is supposedly on the left, he, like DFH, really isn't helping....
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by gilsey »

AngryAsWell wrote: Why were there unprecedented long queues to vote but the turnout was only 66% (if that turnout number is right that is) do we need longer voting times, maybe over a weekend ?
Fewer polling stations?
That was my guess last time as well, when there was a furore over people queuing to vote at 10pm.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:
yahyah wrote:It's giving me a new headache tbh.

In this media age do we go more by head than heart ?

Jarvis comes across well from what I've seen, and if we are leaching votes in the North someone who won't get written off by people who've shifted to UKIP must be an advantage.

But Jarvis would wind up the green leaners, because of his military background.
Don't know where he stands within Labour either...if anyone does would you mind sharing your views please ?

Would like a strong woman other than Cooper to consider, but she has too much baggage.

We don't have the luxury of the small parties, we need a leader who people of all types/ages/social groups will listen to.
I can only think of the Angela Eagle at the moment. I could conceivably rally behind her.
She's magnificent, Angela Eagle.
utopiandreams
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

@ohsocynical

Something else has come to mind regarding our previous exchange so I've just popped back. Regarding the costs/profits I suggested to my lad that apart from making sales, those who spoke of such money may likely be exaggerating, something I am never, ever guilty of, you understand, but that said mate of mine, like myself, was self-employed and had no reason to paint a false picture. We were both fully aware of such struggles, and the joys of course. Anyway he manufactured and fitted double glazing, primarily with hardwood surrounds. Previously he had used to make painted horse drawn carriages, not just trailers but fully crafted gypsy caravans.

Anyway he had several Rotties and his pad was fully equipped with suitable kennels and suchlike. I, of course, do not understand.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

Apologies
Good-morning
Happy birthday, howsillyofme1
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

David Miliband won't be standing, he isn't an MP.

Dan Jarvis would have a lot of positives, Burnham maybe.

Cooper as shadow chancellor (a post she should have held last time).

There is no point selecting another bland politician as leader - which rules out the rest of them.

Edited to add, Stella Creasy would be an option, not sure she will stand.

As to Left wing voters put off by Jarvis military career, sod them.
Last edited by TechnicalEphemera on Sat 09 May, 2015 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by AngryAsWell »

gilsey wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: Why were there unprecedented long queues to vote but the turnout was only 66% (if that turnout number is right that is) do we need longer voting times, maybe over a weekend ?
Fewer polling stations?
That was my guess last time as well, when there was a furore over people queuing to vote at 10pm.
Are there fewer? all our local ones were the same as they have always been.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Whilst I am very happy that people are joining up to the Labour Party, I would hate it to be construed by some as an indication that people are joining up now " because they didn't like Ed Miliband but now he's no longer leader, membership has increased". (That's just an observation - not a plea not to join!)



Edited

Punctuation and stuff
Take your point, but membership increased to over 200,000 under Ed
Yes, I know. I'm just feeling a bit raw still.
Who isn't?
I'm utterly beside myself & don't know what to do.
I feel like France when then tanks came in.
gilsey
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by gilsey »

That's why I added a question mark, I don't pretend to know the answer.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

Hold on, I'm operating a Linux system & the changes need a restart.
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