Saturday 9th, Sunday 10th May 2015

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Sun 10 May, 2015 8:53 pm

To be serious, though. In the mid-term of a parliament when people are most anti, Cameron is taking an enormous risk that whatever he advocates, the country could do the opposite. Labour screwed themselves over for the greater good to keep Scotland in the union. I would suggest they don't do the same over the EU, I'm not sure it's worth it. Let it be Cameron's folly to live or die by. Win or lose, in or out - it'll probably destroy him (at least, here's hoping).

Again, with no thanks button... Hear! Bloody Hear!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 10 May, 2015 8:53 pm

Just when one thought politics couldn't get any nuttier. Apparently this isn't a spoof

(join the SNP as an official affiliate party to get SNP majority government in 2020.)
Sorry but I just gave up the will to live

...and breath - it is a spoof. Say's where my head is at the moment

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 10 May, 2015 8:54 pm

This sort of nonsense has been going on for too long.

Tizme.
"I could reasonably argue that Labour have got us into this mess by not being prepared to work with others. Etc."
Yes, you could and have. At length.

Yahyah.
"Sorry Tizme, I'm leaving dialogue with Greens for a while. Etc"
Sensible, and probably wise.

Tizme.
"That's your prerogative but unless Labour do engage with others, we'll have a Tory government post 2020 too."

Please, Tizme -
Now that you've had the last word (as I am pleased to note that this last comment was not dignified with a response) can this stop now?
Yahyah has made a dignified retreat and explained why. It's wrong to respond to someone who you know will not answer back.

We are better than this.

Enough already.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 10 May, 2015 8:56 pm

By the way - I am as guilty as anyone of causing offence at times.

But I like to think I don't snipe and gripe for long.

I'm off for the rest of the evening.

See you all tomorrow, and thanks to those of you who have posted on my other thingie.

Hugs all round.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 8:56 pm

Mirror PoliticsVerified account
‏@MirrorPolitics
Dan Jarvis says he's NOT running for Labour leader http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... -wont-run-

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 10 May, 2015 8:59 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Mirror PoliticsVerified account
‏@MirrorPolitics
Dan Jarvis says he's NOT running for Labour leader http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... -wont-run-

Taken it down
We can't find the page:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... -wont-run-

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 8:59 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Just when one thought politics couldn't get any nuttier. Apparently this isn't a spoof

(join the SNP as an official affiliate party to get SNP majority government in 2020.)
Sorry but I just gave up the will to live

...and breath - it is a spoof. Say's where my head is at the moment

There's a letter in the Guardian from a bloke in Cameron's constituency saying he's joined the SNP and more .... It's in the item headlined a Grand Coalition of the Left or something like that.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:00 pm

Swarthlander wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
...Then there's ITN. I mean of course FTN which will keep you really up-to-date.
That's how it's been over the last couple of days.

I used to defend the BBC, it has many arms that used to defend honesty and truth but alas, it's time for the BBC to go. It's now a corrupt state propaganda service and it has no purpose other than spread unquestioned untruths and government press bile. I cannot defend it any more.

I must admit I felt the same, but someone upthread (sorry can't remember who) and other half have both reminded me that we need to reclaim it rather than abandon it. Once gone we will never get it back and it has been easily the most powerful means of gaining international recognition any nation has ever had. Never mind quite entertaining. Let's get it back and sort it out rather than continually make it easier for the bastard Tories by throwing in various towels. We certainly need to put pressure on them, but it needs to be a different sort of pressure.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:01 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Mirror PoliticsVerified account
‏@MirrorPolitics
Dan Jarvis says he's NOT running for Labour leader http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... -wont-run-
Taken it down
We can't find the page:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... -wont-run-

How strange. I just read it. It had a friend of his explaining that while he would do everything he could to support Labour he wouldn't stand for leader as he needed to put his family first. He has small children and has recently remarried after losing his first wife to cancer.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:03 pm

I think the EU referendum gives Labour some spectacular opportunities.

First we should demand Cameron leads the vote for In, up front and centre. We should not agree to share any platform with him. If Cameron doesn't agree to lead we should simply refuse to engage.

Once Cameron is up front and centre we should use every opportunity to:

Launch vicious attacks on Tory campaigners for out and their values.
Repeatedly say how brave Cameron is fighting these right wing nutters.

Labour should then campaign for in on the basis of jobs, security, economic reality, workers rights.

We should also, in advance, set out red lines that Labour will campaign for Brexit unless Cameron:

- Drops his stupid attempt on the HRA.
- does not negotiate any erosion in workers rights as an opt out.

Finally we should encourage the EU to make it clear that any re-admission to the single market (following Brexit) must include HRA+full social chapter.

Let the bastard squirm.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:05 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... un-5675484?
The mirror story on Dan Jarvis is here. Sorry.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:06 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Taken it down
We can't find the page:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... -wont-run-
How strange. I just read it. It had a friend of his explaining that while he would do everything he could to support Labour he wouldn't stand for leader as he needed to put his family first. He has small children and has recently remarried after losing his first wife to cancer.

Presumably Progress are leaning on him to get their preferred drone anointed ( no chance if you think the members will go for Mandleson's mate).

Seriously he needs to stand, he is probably our best shot at something that can address blukip and young metropolitan voters.

Typical fucking Labour, you have an ace but you won't play it.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:08 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... un-5675484?
The mirror story on Dan Jarvis is here. Sorry.

Maybe somebody in his constituency could email him and tell him for the good of the party he needs to stand.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Taken it down
We can't find the page:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... -wont-run-
How strange. I just read it. It had a friend of his explaining that while he would do everything he could to support Labour he wouldn't stand for leader as he needed to put his family first. He has small children and has recently remarried after losing his first wife to cancer.

Tom Newton DunnVerified account
‏@tnewtondunn Dan Jarvis is ruling himself out of Labour leadership (ht @chrisshipitv). Big sigh of relief in No10.

What a shame

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:14 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
...Then there's ITN. I mean of course FTN which will keep you really up-to-date.
That's how it's been over the last couple of days.

I used to defend the BBC, it has many arms that used to defend honesty and truth but alas, it's time for the BBC to go. It's now a corrupt state propaganda service and it has no purpose other than spread unquestioned untruths and government press bile. I cannot defend it any more.
I must admit I felt the same, but someone upthread (sorry can't remember who) and other half have both reminded me that we need to reclaim it rather than abandon it. Once gone we will never get it back and it has been easily the most powerful means of gaining international recognition any nation has ever had. Never mind quite entertaining. Let's get it back and sort it out rather than continually make it easier for the bastard Tories by throwing in various towels. We certainly need to put pressure on them, but it needs to be a different sort of pressure.

I agree.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:15 pm

Goodnight, everyone.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:18 pm

Emma Burnell @EmmaBurnell_ · 50m 50 minutes ago
George Galloway has found a new low to stoop to.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:18 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:18 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:22 pm

Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick · May 8
Lab front-bencher: "If Chuka was to win, we'd lose every seat north of the Trent. People feel alienated from metropolitan political elite."

I wonder who said that?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:31 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick · May 8
Lab front-bencher: "If Chuka was to win, we'd lose every seat north of the Trent. People feel alienated from metropolitan political elite."
I wonder who said that?

Don't know but they are right esp after appearing on AN with Mendelson today. Came across like a puppet with Mandy's hand up his back working the voice box

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:37 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick · May 8
Lab front-bencher: "If Chuka was to win, we'd lose every seat north of the Trent. People feel alienated from metropolitan political elite."
I wonder who said that?
Don't know but they are right esp after appearing on AN with Mendelson today. Came across like a puppet with Mandy's hand up his back working the voice box

Well let's be reassured that we've got at least one 'front-bencher' who's understood one important element of the way forward.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:38 pm

ephemerid wrote:This sort of nonsense has been going on for too long.

Tizme.
"I could reasonably argue that Labour have got us into this mess by not being prepared to work with others. Etc."
Yes, you could and have. At length.

Yahyah.
"Sorry Tizme, I'm leaving dialogue with Greens for a while. Etc"
Sensible, and probably wise.

Tizme.
"That's your prerogative but unless Labour do engage with others, we'll have a Tory government post 2020 too."

Please, Tizme -
Now that you've had the last word (as I am pleased to note that this last comment was not dignified with a response) can this stop now?
Yahyah has made a dignified retreat and explained why. It's wrong to respond to someone who you know will not answer back.

We are better than this.

Enough already.

I've argued that Greens have an alternative view and have the right to stick to that view. I've argued that Labour made a mistake in not dealing with the Labour crashed the economy rubbish and the joke letter left by Liam Byrne. Many here have said the same.

What I hear you saying Ephe is, fuck off Tizme if you aren't prepared to accept the views of Labour supporters. No doubt I'm wrong to reply in your eyes and you won't dignify my comment with a reply. Right now my feeling about that is, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

This attitude that left leaning people who aren't Labour should shut the fuck up, is why a 'Grand Coalition' seems impossible. Luckily many of the Labour people that I deal with hear in Watford aren't so arrogant.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:45 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: I wonder who said that?
Don't know but they are right esp after appearing on AN with Mendelson today. Came across like a puppet with Mandy's hand up his back working the voice box
Well let's be reassured that we've got at least one 'front-bencher' who's understood one important element of the way forward.

Bang on right I would have said.

Note to Progress, find somebody better or lose. Chuka is a muppet and the membership won't have him.

I suggest you get back to that nice Mr Jarvis.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:47 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
ephemerid wrote:This sort of nonsense has been going on for too long.

Tizme.
"I could reasonably argue that Labour have got us into this mess by not being prepared to work with others. Etc."
Yes, you could and have. At length.

Yahyah.
"Sorry Tizme, I'm leaving dialogue with Greens for a while. Etc"
Sensible, and probably wise.

Tizme.
"That's your prerogative but unless Labour do engage with others, we'll have a Tory government post 2020 too."

Please, Tizme -
Now that you've had the last word (as I am pleased to note that this last comment was not dignified with a response) can this stop now?
Yahyah has made a dignified retreat and explained why. It's wrong to respond to someone who you know will not answer back.

We are better than this.

Enough already.
I've argued that Greens have an alternative view and have the right to stick to that view. I've argued that Labour made a mistake in not dealing with the Labour crashed the economy rubbish and the joke letter left by Liam Byrne. Many here have said the same.

What I hear you saying Ephe is, fuck off Tizme if you aren't prepared to accept the views of Labour supporters. No doubt I'm wrong to reply in your eyes and you won't dignify my comment with a reply. Right now my feeling about that is, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

This attitude that left leaning people who aren't Labour should shut the fuck up, is why a 'Grand Coalition' seems impossible. Luckily many of the Labour people that I deal with hear in Watford aren't so arrogant.

Oh FFS Tiz! Give it a bloody rest will you. No one has said you must change your view, now please just stop telling others that we must bow down to your superiority.
What is wrong with you that you can see and read how distressed people are at the moment but you keep on picking at scabs till they bleed again.
Have you no empathy?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:47 pm

Goodnight, @PF

Welcome back danesclose, thatchersorphan, and gilsey and thanks for great posts.

Edit to add Oops, and tonibel, too!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:51 pm

George Eaton @georgeeaton · 33m 33 minutes ago
Dan Jarvis would be natural choice for shadow defence. But talents may be better deployed in more prominent brief.

Tweets suggesting that Harman may put Jarvis into Culture brief.

I'd have thought shadow defence was going to be a prominent brief - given the mess that's been made of defence so far and the distinctly disgruntled noises off from plenty on Cameron's side of the house.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:52 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
George Eaton @georgeeaton · 33m 33 minutes ago
Dan Jarvis would be natural choice for shadow defence. But talents may be better deployed in more prominent brief.
Tweets suggesting that Harman may put Jarvis into Culture brief.

I'd have thought shadow defence was going to be a prominent brief - given the mess that's been made of defence so far and the distinctly disgruntled noises off from plenty on Cameron's side of the house.

I don't think he's in favour of Trident (read something about it and for the life of me can't find it now) so that could by why.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:55 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
George Eaton @georgeeaton · 33m 33 minutes ago
Dan Jarvis would be natural choice for shadow defence. But talents may be better deployed in more prominent brief.
Tweets suggesting that Harman may put Jarvis into Culture brief.

I'd have thought shadow defence was going to be a prominent brief - given the mess that's been made of defence so far and the distinctly disgruntled noises off from plenty on Cameron's side of the house.
I don't think he's in favour of Trident (read something about it and for the life of me can't find it now) so that could by why.

Oh that's an interesting bit of info. I still hope whoever does get defence uses Jarvis as a good reference / bod to go to though. So much of what is going to come up will be about actual ground forces and other forms of arms capability and intervention than Trident.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 10 May, 2015 9:57 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
ephemerid wrote:This sort of nonsense has been going on for too long.

Tizme.
"I could reasonably argue that Labour have got us into this mess by not being prepared to work with others. Etc."
Yes, you could and have. At length.

Yahyah.
"Sorry Tizme, I'm leaving dialogue with Greens for a while. Etc"
Sensible, and probably wise.

Tizme.
"That's your prerogative but unless Labour do engage with others, we'll have a Tory government post 2020 too."

Please, Tizme -
Now that you've had the last word (as I am pleased to note that this last comment was not dignified with a response) can this stop now?
Yahyah has made a dignified retreat and explained why. It's wrong to respond to someone who you know will not answer back.

We are better than this.

Enough already.
I've argued that Greens have an alternative view and have the right to stick to that view. I've argued that Labour made a mistake in not dealing with the Labour crashed the economy rubbish and the joke letter left by Liam Byrne. Many here have said the same.

What I hear you saying Ephe is, fuck off Tizme if you aren't prepared to accept the views of Labour supporters. No doubt I'm wrong to reply in your eyes and you won't dignify my comment with a reply. Right now my feeling about that is, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

This attitude that left leaning people who aren't Labour should shut the fuck up, is why a 'Grand Coalition' seems impossible. Luckily many of the Labour people that I deal with hear in Watford aren't so arrogant.

I hope you don't go, Tizme.

I think there are problems with the Greens being too far from Labour to be too close on national issues. Voters shat themselves at the SNP influencing Labour budgets. They're going to do the same with the Greens doing it.

I agree with your earlier points about Labour mistakes.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:00 pm

IDS to return to the DWP to 'oversee cuts of 12 billion pounds in the welfare budget'. First bong on Radio 4 news. Almost triumphal.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:01 pm

Greens in Ireland were accepted as part of government. It didn't end well, but the point I'm making is that nobody worried about it too much.

We don't get Coalitions here really. It doesn't help when junior partners (the Lib Dems) and possible junior partners (the SNP) talk up their influence.

Local coalitions with Greens would be good though. Labour and the Greens in Brighton should work closer this time.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:15 pm

Zoe Williams retweeted
James Cook MP @jamesecook · May 8
Problems facing the country

1. Foxes aren't being killed entertainingly enough
2. Human Beings have rights
3. Disabled people have money

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:17 pm

Agree with both those posts, @Tubby Isaacs

@rr2: I'm so glad I've missed the beginning of the news by listening to this TTIP debate, then. Now, if only we could somehow avoid IDS for as long as it takes for him to leave politics. Cameron really is a seriously bad judge of calibre...

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:22 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
ephemerid wrote:This sort of nonsense has been going on for too long.

Tizme.
"I could reasonably argue that Labour have got us into this mess by not being prepared to work with others. Etc."
Yes, you could and have. At length.

Yahyah.
"Sorry Tizme, I'm leaving dialogue with Greens for a while. Etc"
Sensible, and probably wise.

Tizme.
"That's your prerogative but unless Labour do engage with others, we'll have a Tory government post 2020 too."

Please, Tizme -
Now that you've had the last word (as I am pleased to note that this last comment was not dignified with a response) can this stop now?
Yahyah has made a dignified retreat and explained why. It's wrong to respond to someone who you know will not answer back.

We are better than this.

Enough already.
I've argued that Greens have an alternative view and have the right to stick to that view. I've argued that Labour made a mistake in not dealing with the Labour crashed the economy rubbish and the joke letter left by Liam Byrne. Many here have said the same.

What I hear you saying Ephe is, fuck off Tizme if you aren't prepared to accept the views of Labour supporters. No doubt I'm wrong to reply in your eyes and you won't dignify my comment with a reply. Right now my feeling about that is, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

This attitude that left leaning people who aren't Labour should shut the fuck up, is why a 'Grand Coalition' seems impossible. Luckily many of the Labour people that I deal with hear in Watford aren't so arrogant.

I came back to post something else and found this unnecessary vitriol from you.
I have simply asked you to let it go, and stop this sniping.
Yahyah has stepped away rather than continue with this.
I am asking you to do the same.

Seemingly, you won't.
1. "I've argued that ...etc" Yes, I have read your posts, thank you for them. I happen to disagree.
2. What you hear me saying is manifestly not what I did say or would say. I did not say "fuck off Tizme"
3. This "attitude" you cite is not something I see here. Really. I think we try to be tolerant under frequently trying conditions.
4. Where have I or others ever said people who are not Labour should shut the fuck up? I have never seen that here.

You have described people here as "Labour". That is not correct.

I am not Labour - I have been a Liberal since I could vote 41 years ago, and have never voted Labour until now.
I backed Ed - with many reservations on some of Labour's policies, but because I felt he had the integrity to lead the left back into mainstream politics and that his ideas were more consistent with the left-leaning liberals i identified most with.

I respectfully suggest that you read people's posts. Then perhaps you may see that we are not all tribal "Labour people".
Many of us think carefully before we comment here - I have had to be very careful how I phrase my criticism of Labour's DWP policies and the people who are supposedly sorting them out. On occasion, I have allowed my temper to get the better of me and the result has been me flouncing off or someone else doing likewise, but thank fully that has been temporary in most cases.

We have lost people because there have been times when people here can be perceived as tribal - but it happens to be my view that they were being over-sensitive. One person who has gone and is incommunicado I have real regret about - because it was my fault.
I'm still in touch with a few; I'm in touch with one who may well be back soon.

Do not make an enemy of me, Tizme, it's pointless.
Do not impute me with your snipes at "Labour people".
All I asked from you was for the sniping to stop, the last word you have to have, for some reason only you know about, to stop.
I asked you to leave the subject and yahyah alone, as she has chosen to retreat to avoid exactly this.

Here in Wales, to the left of Watford, we will get on with what we have to get on with. We're just people here.
Not "Labour", not "Green", Welsh, not Welsh, whatever colour or religious or political flavour you want.

I could get into an argument with you about how the "Green people" let down the "Labour people" and we would never agree.
But it's been done. We HEARD you. Now please let it go.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:26 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
Tizme1 wrote:
ephemerid wrote:This sort of nonsense has been going on for too long.

Tizme.
"I could reasonably argue that Labour have got us into this mess by not being prepared to work with others. Etc."
Yes, you could and have. At length.

Yahyah.
"Sorry Tizme, I'm leaving dialogue with Greens for a while. Etc"
Sensible, and probably wise.

Tizme.
"That's your prerogative but unless Labour do engage with others, we'll have a Tory government post 2020 too."

Please, Tizme -
Now that you've had the last word (as I am pleased to note that this last comment was not dignified with a response) can this stop now?
Yahyah has made a dignified retreat and explained why. It's wrong to respond to someone who you know will not answer back.

We are better than this.

Enough already.
I've argued that Greens have an alternative view and have the right to stick to that view. I've argued that Labour made a mistake in not dealing with the Labour crashed the economy rubbish and the joke letter left by Liam Byrne. Many here have said the same.

What I hear you saying Ephe is, fuck off Tizme if you aren't prepared to accept the views of Labour supporters. No doubt I'm wrong to reply in your eyes and you won't dignify my comment with a reply. Right now my feeling about that is, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

This attitude that left leaning people who aren't Labour should shut the fuck up, is why a 'Grand Coalition' seems impossible. Luckily many of the Labour people that I deal with hear in Watford aren't so arrogant.
Oh FFS Tiz! Give it a bloody rest will you. No one has said you must change your view, now please just stop telling others that we must bow down to your superiority.
What is wrong with you that you can see and read how distressed people are at the moment but you keep on picking at scabs till they bleed again.
Have you no empathy?

I'm not telling you or anyone to bow down to my non existent superiority. You don't have a fucking monopoly on distress you know. Everyone on the left is distressed. It doesn't help when you keep telling people on the left from other parties that it's their fault. It isn't. It was UKIP that took a lot of the Labour vote and it's hugely frustrating to me that you [labour] don't realise it. Why? Because if you don't correctly analyse the problem, you won't fucking solve it.

As for empathy, yes I have it. That's why I hugged the Labour candidate that finally won in the ward where I live. It's why I have sympathy for the Labour candidate that took the ward where I was standing because he'll have to fight a third election in 3 years next year. It's also why I talked with Dorothy Thornhill and hugged her too. Because despite disliking her and totally disagreeing with her about so much, I saw a woman that was broken and needed human contact even if it was momentary. And in that moment, I was the only person there.

Don't you fucking tell me about empathy when all you can do is whinge about everyone else and yet not face the truth. Labour failed. That is the bitter truth.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:29 pm

Just watching the end of the BBC News...since when have we had stories like "employment figures are out on Wednesday and are expected to show a further fall in unemployment"?

Is that a subliminal "Look, you did elect the right party y'know" or is it just me?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:29 pm

Enough. Please. Stop.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:34 pm

Having been momentarily side-tracked, I am now posting what I intended to post.

I'd like to than my public (mwah! mawah!) for their forbearance.

Lords, Ladies, gentlemen, and the others (we'll call them peasants - it saves having to classify 'em) your government gives you, again.....
(Drumroll)
George Iain Duncan Smith!
Not for one term only, not for Christmas, but for life!
(Because some of you won't survive till then)

Yes. Dear George.
Serial liar. Useless army officer. Failed party leader. Expenses cheat. Snarling vindictive spiteful incompetent and monumentally thick.
The Unquiet (poor excuse for a) Man is to stay on and kill more people.

What HAS he got on Cameron?

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:35 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Tizme1 wrote:
ephemerid wrote:This sort of nonsense has been going on for too long.

Tizme.
"I could reasonably argue that Labour have got us into this mess by not being prepared to work with others. Etc."
Yes, you could and have. At length.

Yahyah.
"Sorry Tizme, I'm leaving dialogue with Greens for a while. Etc"
Sensible, and probably wise.

Tizme.
"That's your prerogative but unless Labour do engage with others, we'll have a Tory government post 2020 too."

Please, Tizme -
Now that you've had the last word (as I am pleased to note that this last comment was not dignified with a response) can this stop now?
Yahyah has made a dignified retreat and explained why. It's wrong to respond to someone who you know will not answer back.

We are better than this.

Enough already.
I've argued that Greens have an alternative view and have the right to stick to that view. I've argued that Labour made a mistake in not dealing with the Labour crashed the economy rubbish and the joke letter left by Liam Byrne. Many here have said the same.

What I hear you saying Ephe is, fuck off Tizme if you aren't prepared to accept the views of Labour supporters. No doubt I'm wrong to reply in your eyes and you won't dignify my comment with a reply. Right now my feeling about that is, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

This attitude that left leaning people who aren't Labour should shut the fuck up, is why a 'Grand Coalition' seems impossible. Luckily many of the Labour people that I deal with hear in Watford aren't so arrogant.
I can't see that anyone is telling anyone to F off. There was a request to agree to differ for the time being. Tizme, if you don't mind me saying, you're ignoring those of us who are saying Labour should aim to make some compromises and work together with the other leftwing parties, and reacting to one or two people who are still very raw from being landed with another Tory government that nobody expected. Please forgive the presumption, but could I call on everyone to stick with it and not make any decisions about leaving for a few days? We're stronger together but there is a lot of distress and upset that is probably best to get out in the open before we can move on.

I hear you Robert. I'm not ignoring those of you who say there should be some attempt at compromise on all sides. But each time I read those comments, suddenly another 'it's the Greens etc fault' comment seems to pop up. Regardless of whether it is intentional or not, I do basically feel I'm being told to fuck off. Perhaps people don't understand that I too am raw at being landed with another Tory government. I'm frightened and angry too you know.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:36 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Enough. Please. Stop.

I will, yes.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:36 pm

From Twitter:

Ross Lawson ‏@Ross_Lawson 12h12 hours ago

Michael Gove's first act will be to create Free Jails, where anyone who has a shed with a lock on it can start their own prison.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:37 pm

ephemerid wrote:Having been momentarily side-tracked, I am now posting what I intended to post.

I'd like to than my public (mwah! mawah!) for their forbearance.

Lords, Ladies, gentlemen, and the others (we'll call them peasants - it saves having to classify 'em) your government gives you, again.....
(Drumroll)
George Iain Duncan Smith!
Not for one term only, not for Christmas, but for life!
(Because some of you won't survive till then)

Yes. Dear George.
Serial liar. Useless army officer. Failed party leader. Expenses cheat. Snarling vindictive spiteful incompetent and monumentally thick.
The Unquiet (poor excuse for a) Man is to stay on and kill more people.

What HAS he got on Cameron?

Probably when it finally goes tits up Cameron is hoping only IDS will end in ECHR - Oh hang on.... he's leaving that as well
Hum then no idea....

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:38 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Enough. Please. Stop.

So I just take all that abuse above?
Well for you ... ok

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Enough. Please. Stop.

Yes please, rebecca. I don't like to repeat myself but can we please stop going in circles...

I fear I don't know when to stop, much like our Tory friends ;politeface who always like to have the last word. :smileyface :embarrassed

Sorry Folks or do we really need a fucking JCB to dig us all out of a hole? :jcb

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:46 pm

danesclose wrote:From Twitter:

Ross Lawson ‏@Ross_Lawson 12h12 hours ago

Michael Gove's first act will be to create Free Jails, where anyone who has a shed with a lock on it can start their own prison.

Oh gods, don't give that wazzock ideas

Actually, I've got a shed that's behind a security gate which only eight people have the key for. It's got ventilation holes and everything...

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:46 pm

utopiandreams wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Enough. Please. Stop.
Yes please, rebecca. I don't like to repeat myself but can we please stop going in circles...

I fear I don't know when to stop, much like our Tory friends ;politeface who always like to have the last word. :smileyface :embarrassed

Sorry Folks or do we really need a fucking JCB to dig us all out of a hole? :jcb

No, we don't.

Anyway, the owner of JCB is a Tory-donating plonker.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:47 pm

ephemerid wrote:Having been momentarily side-tracked, I am now posting what I intended to post.

I'd like to than my public (mwah! mawah!) for their forbearance.

Lords, Ladies, gentlemen, and the others (we'll call them peasants - it saves having to classify 'em) your government gives you, again.....
(Drumroll)
George Iain Duncan Smith!
Not for one term only, not for Christmas, but for life!
(Because some of you won't survive till then)

Yes. Dear George.
Serial liar. Useless army officer. Failed party leader. Expenses cheat. Snarling vindictive spiteful incompetent and monumentally thick.
The Unquiet (poor excuse for a) Man is to stay on and kill more people.

What HAS he got on Cameron?

I'm just wondering if it's because
(a) UC is such a shambles which means
(b) none of the others wants to touch the job with a bargepole and
(c)Does anyone else have a thick enough skin to live with such hate and revulsion.
(d) Cameron only likes a close circle of mates around him.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:50 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... un-5675484?
The mirror story on Dan Jarvis is here. Sorry.

Seeing as it looks like Dan Jarvis is out, I did the "who do you prefer as leader" again and noticed Ed was an option and as I didn't particularly fancy any of the others I picked him. He was joint 3rd with Andy Burnham behind Jarvis and 'someone else'. I think the Blairites might have a struggle to get their favoured option (Ummuna?) elected. They're all so bland, something I don't think Ed ever suffered from even if he did share the whole London centric, Oxbridge problem.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 10 May, 2015 10:52 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Just watching the end of the BBC News...since when have we had stories like "employment figures are out on Wednesday and are expected to show a further fall in unemployment"?

Is that a subliminal "Look, you did elect the right party y'know" or is it just me?

Pure Craig Oliver.